Would you voluntarily take the H1N1 Vaccine?

Discuss those "what if" or "what would you do" scenarios you've been wondering about.

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Would you take the H1N1 Vaccine?

Yes!
98
34%
No!
108
37%
No, I would take the fine or the quarantine.
15
5%
No, I would fight or leave the country/state.
37
13%
Other / Undecided
31
11%
 
Total votes: 289

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Re: Would you voluntarily take the H1N1 Vaccine?

Post by shrapnel » Sun Oct 18, 2009 9:51 pm

I was referring to the "infected needle" bit. And if we voluntarily got the shot, it would likely be administered by a health care professional, working in a private capacity.
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Re: Would you voluntarily take the H1N1 Vaccine?

Post by TDW586 » Sun Oct 18, 2009 9:55 pm

shrapnel wrote:I was referring to the "infected needle" bit. And if we voluntarily got the shot, it would likely be administered by a health care professional, working in a private capacity.
Ah, my bad, gotcha. Yeah, I'm pretty sure they'd at least wipe them down between stabs. :lol:

Voluntarily, I've got no problem with, let the immunizations begin. When the .gov starts stepping in and forcing people to get a vaccine (especially because of a flu outbreak classified by the WHO as "moderate" last I checked), that's a different matter.
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Re: Would you voluntarily take the H1N1 Vaccine?

Post by shrapnel » Sun Oct 18, 2009 10:01 pm

I'm in agreement that people shouldn't be forced to get vaccines. At the same time, I don't know that they have the right to wander merrily around infecting us all. Vaccine or quarantine, I'm ok with. You don't have to get an injection that you don't want, but you don't have the right to infect anyone else, either.


On the point of 'infected needles'- I had a friend in 8th grade whose brother almost died of dehydration while they were on a family vacation in South Korea. He got some incredibly vicious form of food poisoning, and so their parents took him to a hospital. The immediately left the hospital when they saw nurses reusing needles.

I have no idea if they were wiping them off in between uses, though. :lol:
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"This? Oh, just my rabies hat."
shrapnel wrote:Darling, I would never fondle your sphenoid.
Dr. Cox wrote: People aren't chocolates. Do you know what they are mostly? Bastards. Bastard-coated bastards with bastard fillings.
JamesCannon wrote:Shrapnel, if you were a superhero, you'd be Captain Buzzkill Peener Pain.

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Re: Would you voluntarily take the H1N1 Vaccine?

Post by TDW586 » Sun Oct 18, 2009 10:09 pm

shrapnel wrote:I'm in agreement that people shouldn't be forced to get vaccines. At the same time, I don't know that they have the right to wander merrily around infecting us all. Vaccine or quarantine, I'm ok with. You don't have to get an injection that you don't want, but you don't have the right to infect anyone else, either.
Well, I'd be inclined to disagree with that. I'd be fine with individual action keeping anyone off of private property (shopping malls, private parks, public gatherings and so on), but I don't see where a government derives the right to prevent someone who may or may not have the flu from either walking on public property or from being on private property if the owner does not have a problem with them being there.

Besides, if you and others have been vaccinated, how exactly are they going to infect you? Granted, no vaccine is 100%, but if we're just going to quarantine those who are infected, the vaccine's hardly necessary. :?

On the point of 'infected needles'- I had a friend in 8th grade whose brother almost died of dehydration while they were on a family vacation in South Korea. He got some incredibly vicious form of food poisoning, and so their parents took him to a hospital. The immediately left the hospital when they saw nurses reusing needles.

I have no idea if they were wiping them off in between uses, though. :lol:
Ech...actually, even if they were made sterile between uses, that would be teh suck; ever gotten a shot with a dull needle? :cry:
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Re: Would you voluntarily take the H1N1 Vaccine?

Post by shrapnel » Sun Oct 18, 2009 10:26 pm

I'll come back and expand on my views later- it's my bedtime. :?


Dull needles = teh sux.
OTTB wrote:"What's that you're wearing?"
"This? Oh, just my rabies hat."
shrapnel wrote:Darling, I would never fondle your sphenoid.
Dr. Cox wrote: People aren't chocolates. Do you know what they are mostly? Bastards. Bastard-coated bastards with bastard fillings.
JamesCannon wrote:Shrapnel, if you were a superhero, you'd be Captain Buzzkill Peener Pain.

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Re: Would you voluntarily take the H1N1 Vaccine?

Post by JojoZS » Sun Oct 18, 2009 10:42 pm

TDW586 wrote:ever gotten a shot with a dull needle? :cry:
I pi$$ed a nurse off once, it felt like she found the dullest needle, I bleed down my arm, I asked her for a tissue and she scolded me for bleeding. I was bruised for a week! Helpful tip........don't go to the free clinic when the nurse is trying to leave for lunch :(
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Re: Would you voluntarily take the H1N1 Vaccine?

Post by 3Fingas » Sun Oct 18, 2009 11:08 pm

No, I will not take the vaccine. I don't trust it. Every time I take a flue vaccine, I get sick. i doubt this time would be any different. This h1n1 vaccine seems very rushed and not at all well tested. So, I would rather trust good hygiene and my natural immune system. YMMV.

As far as anybody requiring vaccines, I would just ignore it. I am an American citizen and they can kiss my a** if they (whomever "they" is/are) think they can force me to be a test subject for them.
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Re: Would you voluntarily take the H1N1 Vaccine?

Post by SweetTea » Mon Oct 19, 2009 4:47 pm

3Fingas wrote:No, I will not take the vaccine. I don't trust it. Every time I take a flue vaccine, I get sick. i doubt this time would be any different. This h1n1 vaccine seems very rushed and not at all well tested. So, I would rather trust good hygiene and my natural immune system. YMMV.

As far as anybody requiring vaccines, I would just ignore it. I am an American citizen and they can kiss my a** if they (whomever "they" is/are) think they can force me to be a test subject for them.
Seems rushed by what measure? Do you have any reason to believe this, or is it just something planted into your mind by talking heads?

The point of government is that you give them some freedoms and in exchange they protect the rest of them. For example, you don't have the freedom to murder, rape, steal, or go around licking people if you have active TB. This flu isn't "the same as the regular flu." It specifically effects the young and otherwise healthy (as opposed to the regular flu which hits the old and immunocompromised). It has a higher rate of acute respiratory distress syndrome, something that often requires intubation and mechanical ventilation. I agree that you shouldn't be required to take a vaccine, but if you choose not to then perhaps you have given up the right to be out in public. The only legitimate question is whether or not this new strain warrants such restrictions.
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Re: Would you voluntarily take the H1N1 Vaccine?

Post by ZMace » Mon Oct 19, 2009 5:06 pm

Other/undecided

I have already had the swine flu, for me it was just a week of suck, just like the regular flu. But I am treating this just as if it was regular seasonal flu (which I don't get a vaccine for either). Herd immunization and all that aside, I don't interact with children at all, nor do I talk to anybody over 50ish, and while I may see immuno compromized people, I don't know it.

Also I'm not one of those assholes who drag their sorry asses into work/school and infect all those around them...

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Re: Would you voluntarily take the H1N1 Vaccine?

Post by Bucky_Katt » Mon Oct 19, 2009 10:17 pm

TDW586 wrote:
shrapnel wrote:That, uhm, isn't quite how it works, but you just go on with your bad self. :roll:
Shrapnel, I'm actually in the "yes, I'd take it" column, but frankly, if I wasn't .mil and I was told that I was required by the government to take it, I would refuse on principle.

No government body has the right to force anyone to take any treatment that they do not want to, period.
Thank you!

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Re: Would you voluntarily take the H1N1 Vaccine?

Post by Bucky_Katt » Mon Oct 19, 2009 10:21 pm

shrapnel wrote:I was referring to the "infected needle" bit. And if we voluntarily got the shot, it would likely be administered by a health care professional, working in a private capacity.
It's not a used needle that makes it infected, it's the crap inside of the syringe that makes it infected. You do realize what they put in those right? You go get all the shots you want! Best of luck to you!

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Re: Would you voluntarily take the H1N1 Vaccine?

Post by thesupremeking » Tue Oct 20, 2009 12:58 pm

SweetTea wrote:
3Fingas wrote:No, I will not take the vaccine. I don't trust it. Every time I take a flue vaccine, I get sick. i doubt this time would be any different. This h1n1 vaccine seems very rushed and not at all well tested. So, I would rather trust good hygiene and my natural immune system. YMMV.

As far as anybody requiring vaccines, I would just ignore it. I am an American citizen and they can kiss my a** if they (whomever "they" is/are) think they can force me to be a test subject for them.
Seems rushed by what measure? Do you have any reason to believe this, or is it just something planted into your mind by talking heads?

The point of government is that you give them some freedoms and in exchange they protect the rest of them. For example, you don't have the freedom to murder, rape, steal, or go around licking people if you have active TB. This flu isn't "the same as the regular flu." It specifically effects the young and otherwise healthy (as opposed to the regular flu which hits the old and immunocompromised). It has a higher rate of acute respiratory distress syndrome, something that often requires intubation and mechanical ventilation. I agree that you shouldn't be required to take a vaccine, but if you choose not to then perhaps you have given up the right to be out in public. The only legitimate question is whether or not this new strain warrants such restrictions.
The reason older people are not getting sick as much from swine flu is that they have an immunity towards it which means, at some point in the past there was a strain of similar flu people over 50 were exposed to. Young people are affected more by this strain because their immune systems over compensate or are essentially too strong and causing fluid build up in the lungs (which believe it or not is an immune response and helpful for the most part). For this reason is the exact way the famous "spanish flu" killed mostly children and young adults. It is not new, the concept isn't new, the strain isn't entirely new, a virus killing the most healthy isn't new, the fear tactics aren't new, the bloating of statistics isn't new, the catch-phrase media hype isn't new etc etc.
Look take your swine flu shot if you want to, there's nothing wrong with that, but the hype is ridiculous. There are diseases out there much much worse and with way more deadly potential.
Look facts are facts and not really open to opinion, the swine flu isnt even on the same page as regular flu.
below are the cold hard facts


Swine flu deaths so far, estimated about 500 in the U.S. since April

Regular flu kills 36,000 Americans each year!
that means since april there have been roughly 21,000 people killed by the REGULAR FLU!

OH THE TERROR! THE HORROR OF THE SWINE FLU.....get real :roll:
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Re: Would you voluntarily take the H1N1 Vaccine?

Post by andygates » Tue Oct 20, 2009 1:48 pm

Break those seasonal flu deaths down by month. See, the swine flu's been busy over the summer when seasonal flu is pretty much nil. Expect both come winter: the medical preparedness people certainly are.
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Re: Would you voluntarily take the H1N1 Vaccine?

Post by crypto » Tue Oct 20, 2009 2:47 pm

thesupremeking wrote:
OH THE TERROR! THE HORROR OF THE SWINE FLU.....get real :roll:
Clearly you've got this whole epidemic thing figured out.

I'm interested what makes your opinion more informed than the epidemiological medical community, who is genuinely terrified about this pandemic, in a way that they werent for bird flu or SARS or anything we've had in recent memory.

Why are you so convinced that nothing is going to happen other than saying that regular flu has killed more people so far? Why should I listen to you, rather than professionals who study public health and epidemiology for a living?
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Re: Would you voluntarily take the H1N1 Vaccine?

Post by shrapnel » Tue Oct 20, 2009 5:41 pm

Bucky_Katt wrote:
shrapnel wrote:I was referring to the "infected needle" bit. And if we voluntarily got the shot, it would likely be administered by a health care professional, working in a private capacity.
It's not a used needle that makes it infected, it's the crap inside of the syringe that makes it infected. You do realize what they put in those right? You go get all the shots you want! Best of luck to you!
Please enlighten me. I am genuinely curious.
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"This? Oh, just my rabies hat."
shrapnel wrote:Darling, I would never fondle your sphenoid.
Dr. Cox wrote: People aren't chocolates. Do you know what they are mostly? Bastards. Bastard-coated bastards with bastard fillings.
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Re: Would you voluntarily take the H1N1 Vaccine?

Post by Jenny » Tue Oct 20, 2009 8:50 pm

Yes. I help my mom. She is a Preschool Teacher. I have tolerated vaccines well. So I will take the H1N1 Vaccine. May God help me. And no I am not starting a debate about religion. I am stating this is just me. :)

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Re: Would you voluntarily take the H1N1 Vaccine?

Post by Bucky_Katt » Tue Oct 20, 2009 10:58 pm

shrapnel wrote:
Bucky_Katt wrote:
shrapnel wrote:I was referring to the "infected needle" bit. And if we voluntarily got the shot, it would likely be administered by a health care professional, working in a private capacity.
It's not a used needle that makes it infected, it's the crap inside of the syringe that makes it infected. You do realize what they put in those right? You go get all the shots you want! Best of luck to you!
Please enlighten me. I am genuinely curious.
And you should be... however, go do your own homework.

If you want to line up for someone that wants to poke you with something, you be my guest. Its up to you to make your own decision based on your conclusion from the information... anyone that says "well the government said so..." should immediately be suspect.

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Re: Would you voluntarily take the H1N1 Vaccine?

Post by JTNieman » Tue Oct 20, 2009 11:00 pm

Bucky_Katt wrote:
shrapnel wrote: I am genuinely curious.
And you should be... however, go do your own homework.
That was kinda crappy. You're making the assertion against the norm, and proposing the new idea, which kind of places the onus of proof/backup on you.

Aside from that, isn't this a community based on educating our fellow man? What would ZS be if we all felt we had some sort of knowledge that could help save lives, and just looked at everyone else and said "Tough, figure it out yourself!" ? :\

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Re: Would you voluntarily take the H1N1 Vaccine?

Post by Bucky_Katt » Tue Oct 20, 2009 11:28 pm

jtnieman wrote:
Bucky_Katt wrote:
shrapnel wrote: I am genuinely curious.
And you should be... however, go do your own homework.
That was kinda crappy. You're making the assertion against the norm, and proposing the new idea, which kind of places the onus of proof/backup on you.

Aside from that, isn't this a community based on educating our fellow man? What would ZS be if we all felt we had some sort of knowledge that could help save lives, and just looked at everyone else and said "Tough, figure it out yourself!" ? :\
well... heaven forbid someone have to go find out something for themselves. It's not like I just pushed a cripple into a lake, or told some vagrant to get a job in a city where the unemployment rate is skyrocketing...

If someone wants to believe in something... that's great! so what does anyone who believes in getting those shots have to base their opinions on?

I'm not trying to make up anyone's mind for them, I'm not going to shame them into one position or another... I have a very strong opinion about what I'll allow the government to do to me, physically or otherwise, I answered a question from someone else. Why is that so hard to understand?

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Re: Would you voluntarily take the H1N1 Vaccine?

Post by SweetTea » Tue Oct 20, 2009 11:43 pm

jtnieman wrote:
Bucky_Katt wrote:
shrapnel wrote: I am genuinely curious.
And you should be... however, go do your own homework.
That was kinda crappy. You're making the assertion against the norm, and proposing the new idea, which kind of places the onus of proof/backup on you.

Aside from that, isn't this a community based on educating our fellow man? What would ZS be if we all felt we had some sort of knowledge that could help save lives, and just looked at everyone else and said "Tough, figure it out yourself!" ? :\
Agreed. When you post unsubstantiated bullshit* and someone asks for you to substantiate it, the appropriate response is substantiation (in this case, a list of "crap inside the syringe" would have been helpful). Instead, you posted more snark sans proof. This behavior reminds me of a fart in the wind. Offensive and troublesome, but ephemeral and devoid of substance.

There is no "belief" about vaccines. Vaccines are arguably the most cost effective thing the human race has ever done for public health. Smallpox is extinct, polio is relegated to about 3 3rd world countries, HIB infection rates have plummeted, along with measles, mumps, rubella, tetanus, diphtheria, and many others. There's your fucking proof. There is as much proof for the efficacy of vaccines than there is for the germ theory of disease itself. There is no debate here, because debate implies that there are real experts in their field arguing about this. The reality is that real experts in their field are trying to counter a propaganda campaign made by pseudoscientific cranks whose hands are even further stained red when a child dies of whooping cough, HIB, or any other preventable disease.

"What's so hard to understand" is why you're so clearly backpedaling when someone asked you to base your claims in reality.

*allegedly
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actually so did I. Didn't want to be the first one to say anything :P
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Re: Would you voluntarily take the H1N1 Vaccine?

Post by Bucky_Katt » Tue Oct 20, 2009 11:51 pm

SweetTea wrote:
jtnieman wrote:
Bucky_Katt wrote:
shrapnel wrote: I am genuinely curious.
And you should be... however, go do your own homework.
That was kinda crappy. You're making the assertion against the norm, and proposing the new idea, which kind of places the onus of proof/backup on you.

Aside from that, isn't this a community based on educating our fellow man? What would ZS be if we all felt we had some sort of knowledge that could help save lives, and just looked at everyone else and said "Tough, figure it out yourself!" ? :\
Agreed. When you post unsubstantiated bullshit* and someone asks for you to substantiate it, the appropriate response is substantiation (in this case, a list of "crap inside the syringe" would have been helpful). Instead, you posted more snark sans proof. This behavior reminds me of a fart in the wind. Offensive and troublesome, but ephemeral and devoid of substance.

There is no "belief" about vaccines. Vaccines are arguably the most cost effective thing the human race has ever done for public health. Smallpox is extinct, polio is relegated to about 3 3rd world countries, HIB infection rates have plummeted, along with measles, mumps, rubella, tetanus, diphtheria, and many others. There's your fucking proof. There is as much proof for the efficacy of vaccines than there is for the germ theory of disease itself. There is no debate here, because debate implies that there are real experts in their field arguing about this. The reality is that real experts in their field are trying to counter a propaganda campaign made by pseudoscientific cranks whose hands are even further stained red when a child dies of whooping cough, HIB, or any other preventable disease.

"What's so hard to understand" is why you're so clearly backpedaling when someone asked you to base your claims in reality.

*allegedly
Wow! you didnt like my internet answer?!

Grats! :)

So lets see... please define in detailed experience how you're able to comment on:

diseases like tetanus, diphtheria, smallpox, (and many others)

Are you a doctor? Yes or No?

If you are not a doctor, please reserve your condescending remarks for something you have actual experience in, and let others have their own opinion. As I have stated, I don't want to force anyone to my opinion, and I'm very concerned about those that take the opposite!

If you are a doctor, why dont you expand on your personal experience in how this was developed and researched, and your role in that? Maybe you'll change my mind!

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Re: Would you voluntarily take the H1N1 Vaccine?

Post by SweetTea » Wed Oct 21, 2009 12:26 am

Bucky_Katt wrote: Wow! you didnt like my internet answer?!

Grats! :)

So lets see... please define in detailed experience how you're able to comment on:

diseases like tetanus, diphtheria, smallpox, (and many others)

Are you a doctor? Yes or No?

If you are not a doctor, please reserve your condescending remarks for something you have actual experience in, and let others have their own opinion. As I have stated, I don't want to force anyone to my opinion, and I'm very concerned about those that take the opposite!

If you are a doctor, why dont you expand on your personal experience in how this was developed and researched, and your role in that? Maybe you'll change my mind!
For the record, I'm a medical student. But anyone with critical thinking skills and google could see through this bullshit.

Experience is not the same as real science. Here's some real science that took about 10 minutes of searching on pubmed and some other stuff:

Speaking of the DTaP vaccine, which protects against diphtheria, tetanus, and pertussis (whooping cough): Seroprotection rates for diphtheria, tetanus and influenza antigens were high (>/=94.1%).
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1983 ... d_RVDocSum

MMR (measles, mumps, rubella):
highly effective
no convincing evidence that MMR vaccine causes, or facilitates development of, either inflammatory bowel disease or autism.
the weight of published evidence argues overwhelmingly in favour of MMR vaccine as the most effective and safest way of protecting children from measles, mumps and rubella.
MMR vaccine – how effective and how safe? The independent review from Consumers’ Association. Drug and Therapeutics Bulletin April 2003, 41 (4):25-30.

Graph showing polio rates dropping like a stone after vaccination was introduced:
http://www.ott.zynet.co.uk/polio/lincol ... yvfig1.gif

"Naturally occurring smallpox was eradicated in the late 1970s by a global vaccination program sponsored by the WHO."
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/article ... ool=pubmed" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

It's not comprehensive, but it is evidence. I defy you to produce any of your own.
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Re: Would you voluntarily take the H1N1 Vaccine?

Post by Bucky_Katt » Wed Oct 21, 2009 12:42 am

SweetTea wrote:
Bucky_Katt wrote: Wow! you didnt like my internet answer?!

Grats! :)

So lets see... please define in detailed experience how you're able to comment on:

diseases like tetanus, diphtheria, smallpox, (and many others)

Are you a doctor? Yes or No?

If you are not a doctor, please reserve your condescending remarks for something you have actual experience in, and let others have their own opinion. As I have stated, I don't want to force anyone to my opinion, and I'm very concerned about those that take the opposite!

If you are a doctor, why dont you expand on your personal experience in how this was developed and researched, and your role in that? Maybe you'll change my mind!
For the record, I'm a medical student. But anyone with critical thinking skills and google could see through this bullshit.

Experience is not the same as real science. Here's some real science that took about 10 minutes of searching on pubmed and some other stuff:

Speaking of the DTaP vaccine, which protects against diphtheria, tetanus, and pertussis (whooping cough): Seroprotection rates for diphtheria, tetanus and influenza antigens were high (>/=94.1%).
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1983 ... d_RVDocSum

MMR (measles, mumps, rubella):
highly effective
no convincing evidence that MMR vaccine causes, or facilitates development of, either inflammatory bowel disease or autism.
the weight of published evidence argues overwhelmingly in favour of MMR vaccine as the most effective and safest way of protecting children from measles, mumps and rubella.
MMR vaccine – how effective and how safe? The independent review from Consumers’ Association. Drug and Therapeutics Bulletin April 2003, 41 (4):25-30.

Graph showing polio rates dropping like a stone after vaccination was introduced:
http://www.ott.zynet.co.uk/polio/lincol ... yvfig1.gif

"Naturally occurring smallpox was eradicated in the late 1970s by a global vaccination program sponsored by the WHO."
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/article ... ool=pubmed" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

It's not comprehensive, but it is evidence. I defy you to produce any of your own.
and like I asked earlier, what is your proof?

wasnt it proof (via statistics that killed a bunch of folks in the 70's? with faulty vaccines) and isnt it more likely that that you're obligated to subscribe to the current "policy"?)

Like I said before... what is your "PERSONAL EXPERIENCE"? by the way.. thanks!!!! neat links, and very informative, good stuff, not really supporting your point of view though from being one person in a bathtub of amoeba trying to become doctors because you have nothing else better to do :) (okay, I lied a little bit, I didnt check any of your links... they are irrelevant... the question was about your expertise, the expertise involved in developing this vaccination and the morality and legality of enforcing it upon others)

sorry, you dont qualify to answer the question :(

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SweetTea
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Re: Would you voluntarily take the H1N1 Vaccine?

Post by SweetTea » Wed Oct 21, 2009 12:51 am

Bucky_Katt wrote: and like I asked earlier, what is your proof?

wasnt it proof (via statistics that killed a bunch of folks in the 70's? with faulty vaccines) and isnt it more likely that that you're obligated to subscribe to the current "policy"?)

Like I said before... what is your "PERSONAL EXPERIENCE"? by the way.. thanks!!!! neat links, and very informative, good stuff, not really supporting your point of view though from being one person in a bathtub of amoeba trying to become doctors because you have nothing else better to do :) (okay, I lied a little bit, I didnt check any of your links... they are irrelevant... the question was about your expertise, the expertise involved in developing this vaccination and the morality and legality of enforcing it upon others)

sorry, you dont qualify to answer the question :(
What obliges me to "subscribe to the current policy?" I'm sure it's all of the filthy lucre I get from big pharma...

What personal experience makes someone qualified in your (baseless, fucked up) opinion? Do I have to be the person that invented the vaccine?

I hope you find someone that fits your qualifications, which seems to be about 5 people.
amd2800barton wrote:
LakotaJones wrote:Holy shit. I always thought Sweet Tea was a girl...
actually so did I. Didn't want to be the first one to say anything :P
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