Nuclear War Scenario PAW

Discuss those "what if" or "what would you do" scenarios you've been wondering about.

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stefan2004
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Post by stefan2004 » Sun Jul 03, 2005 12:27 pm

the us also has a super nuke called the

"armageddon weapon", it is designed to destroy the atmospere completely- well, the blast will cause it to collapse on itself.

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Post by ripped0ff » Sun Jul 03, 2005 1:37 pm

Stefan, you seem to have bought into a number of the flat-out lies out there concerning the world's nuclear arsenal. There aren't enough nukes out there to destroy the world 10 times over, there aren't enough nukes out there to destroy the US and former USSR one time over. What's more, that supposed "Armageddon Nuke" is a myth based on a theory during the Manhattan Project that the A-Bomb would ignite the atmosphere. Even the world's largest nuke ever, the Czar, didn't pack that much power.

You should read this before going on about just how deadly a nuclear war would be. While they would certainly be apocalyptic, the various Nuclear Winter, Nuclear Summer, and complete extinction theories have been shown to be far closer to fiction then fact.

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Post by itsallover » Sun Jul 03, 2005 1:50 pm

ripped0ff wrote:Stefan, you seem to have bought into a number of the flat-out lies out there concerning the world's nuclear arsenal. There aren't enough nukes out there to destroy the world 10 times over, there aren't enough nukes out there to destroy the US and former USSR one time over. What's more, that supposed "Armageddon Nuke" is a myth based on a theory during the Manhattan Project that the A-Bomb would ignite the atmosphere. Even the world's largest nuke ever, the Czar, didn't pack that much power.

You should read this before going on about just how deadly a nuclear war would be. While they would certainly be apocalyptic, the various Nuclear Winter, Nuclear Summer, and complete extinction theories have been shown to be far closer to fiction then fact.
Actually there are enough nukes to blow the world up 10 times over. You really would be surprised what weapons they are hiding as well. Wouldn't surprise me if they have a weapon that could destroy a large part of the milky way.
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Post by stefan2004 » Sun Jul 03, 2005 2:30 pm

rippedoff,

You words clearly proove that you dont know how powerful nukes really are.

for a start todays nukes are a lot more devastating that the ones dropped on horishima.

And for one there are enough nukes to blow the world up 10 times over.

some people will use any excuse to ignore a threat.

you should also look more into the coldwar

If nukes couldnt even destroy thee US one time over, why does everyone fear them?

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Post by itsallover » Sun Jul 03, 2005 2:41 pm

stefan2004 wrote:rippedoff,

You words clearly proove that you dont know how powerful nukes really are.

for a start todays nukes are a lot more devastating that the ones dropped on horishima.

And for one there are enough nukes to blow the world up 10 times over.

some people will use any excuse to ignore a threat.

you should also look more into the coldwar

If nukes couldnt even destroy thee US one time over, why does everyone fear them?
Exactly my point.
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Post by StalinsLastStand » Sun Jul 03, 2005 2:42 pm

Well everyone fears them because of the fact that even if the world wasn't destroyed inch by inch from nukes, the resulting radiation and nuclear winter/summer would destroy it, thereby while there may not be enough nukes to destroy the entire country city by city person by person, the resultant factors of the nukes would.
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Post by itsallover » Sun Jul 03, 2005 2:45 pm

The main thing that scares me is the thought that you could be there one second, see a short flash of white light, then be gone. Just another bit of water in the atmosphere. And all that would be left is your outline. Harsh.
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Post by ripped0ff » Sun Jul 03, 2005 3:40 pm

stefan2004 wrote:rippedoff,

You words clearly proove that you dont know how powerful nukes really are.

for a start todays nukes are a lot more devastating that the ones dropped on horishima.

And for one there are enough nukes to blow the world up 10 times over.

some people will use any excuse to ignore a threat.

you should also look more into the coldwar

If nukes couldnt even destroy thee US one time over, why does everyone fear them?
On the contrary, I know exactly how powerful nukes are, and that's why I've stated such a point. I know that Fat Man and Little Boy pale in comparison to the larger 20 megaton (or even 100 megaton) bombs. I know that they pose a much larger threat. But to say that they pose as large a threat as you represent is either a lie, or a total lack of understanding about their power.

The very fact that you state that the world's nuclear arsenal has the power to destroy the world 10 times over demonstrates your ignorance in regards to the power of the world's nuclear supply (please don't take this in an overly offensive manner, I think you're wildly misinformed about nuclear potential, nothing more). Furthermore, to ask "If nukes couldnt even destroy thee US one time over, why does everyone fear them?" is obviously something of a loaded question. There aren't enough chemical weapons in the world to even destroy the US one time over, yet people fear them. The same can be said for nukes.

Again, you need to read that link I posted before you continue. You're merely demonstrating how much you don't know by doing so. Beyond that, you should also consider the following.

Just because the most powerful ICBMs out there have a 20 megaton yield, as compared to the 15 kiloton yield of the Hiroshima bomb does not mean they will be 1333 times as deadly. They likely aren't even 100 times as deadly, why? Two reasons, the nature of their yield and the nature of their targets.

Considering the nature of their yield, we can understand yield to give an approximate comparison of the volume of destruction these weapons will generate as opposed to their area. Because volume is an exponential measure rather then a linear one, the volume encompassed by the blast of a 20 megaton warhead is significantly less great in magnitude, as compared to the 15 kiloton Hiroshima blast, as a basic linear measure might indicate. In fact, despite the massive differential in their volumes, their radius of destruction is vastly closer. Where the 20 megaton warhead has 1333 times the volume, it merely encompasses as radius 11 times larger. (I can quote the basic math behind this if you'd care to see)

Secondly, consider the nature of targets. During the whole of the Cold War, the primary targets for either side were not neccesarily major population centers. Rather, the highest priority targets were ones of military and command significance. As such, both the USSR and the US would use their most powerful ICBMs (those with 20 megaton warheads) on targets such as NORAD and enemy dense packs before cities. For the most part, cities of non-military significance weren't even targetted, and if they were, were only targetted by 500 kiloton warheads (5 times the destructive radius of the Hiroshima bomb). What's more, the nature of urban sprawl has created a situation such that a nuclear strike on the direct heart of a city would less likely affect its population concentrations then at the time of the Hiroshima bombing.

On top of all that, you have points which that same link mentions as well that seek to further mitigate the loss of life.

I am not saying that nuclear war is not a scary proposition. I am not attempting to say it isn't a threat. However, I am attempting to realistically assess the threat it poses. Until you truly understand a threat, you cannot truly prepare for it.

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Post by Pegasus_Shoulder_Flash » Mon Jul 04, 2005 3:12 am

Czechnology wrote:I don't know which is worse though, a new AWB, or being saved by Pelosi?
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Post by BB42924 » Mon Jul 04, 2005 3:24 am

Although Nuclear war is more likely man id sure want it to be zombies more than that... at least you have a chance with zombies...

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Post by ripped0ff » Mon Jul 04, 2005 8:16 am

I just realized that the link color is just the same as the normal text color now, which is why you likely missed my link. In any case, I've posted it below again. If you have any false notions of nuclear winter and such, I suggest you read it.

http://www.oism.org/nwss/s73p912.htm

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Post by just a grunt » Wed Jul 06, 2005 11:29 pm

BB42924 wrote:Although Nuclear war is more likely man id sure want it to be zombies more than that... at least you have a chance with zombies...
Amen to that, I'll second the Zombies.
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Post by Mr. GoodGuy » Thu Jul 07, 2005 11:59 am

I would just go to the closest vault in the area. hopefully my chirldren will be able to leave the vault in there yellow and blue cloths and kill super mutants and ghouls when the radiation cools down.
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Post by Nightside_Eclipse » Thu Jul 07, 2005 2:15 pm

stefan2004 wrote:the us also has a super nuke called the

"armageddon weapon", it is designed to destroy the atmospere completely- well, the blast will cause it to collapse on itself.

o_O

Am I the only one who noticed this???? :lol:
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Post by StalinsLastStand » Thu Jul 07, 2005 2:35 pm

It's really just a hugeass aerosol can. Quick and effective at atmosphere destruction. But it's ok, they also have a plan to tack up some plastic to fix it.
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Post by zXzGrifterzXz » Thu Jul 07, 2005 9:51 pm

Mr. GoodGuy wrote:I would just go to the closest vault in the area. hopefully my children will be able to leave the vault in there yellow and blue cloths and kill super mutants and ghouls when the radiation cools down.
Dont forget the powered armor. :wink:
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Post by Laminator_X » Fri Jul 08, 2005 8:34 pm

Remember the "survivalists" from the 80's with their wilderness compounds out in the middle of nowhere? A lot of 'em were kooks, but they had the right idea about how to survive the Big Flash. Don't be where the bombs fall. Don't be anywhere near where the bombs fall. Have a continuing supply of food and water nowhere even remotely where the bombs fell, or even where their wind might blow.

The irony is thatonly way to make it to the nuclear PAW is to be living in it already. If you go down that road, the bombs have taken the life you now live without even being armed.
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Post by Digital Leviathan » Mon Aug 01, 2005 11:29 pm

kyle wrote:An old link with interesting fall out maps: http://zombiesquad.theedge.net/phpbb2/v ... php?t=1831
The Russians must hate me. I live in Kalamazoo, MI. They drop 1 bomb on Lansing, the capital of michigan but 2 on Kalamazoo? Kalamazoo is a tiny shitstain town that hardly deserves to be on the map!

Well at least I don't live in Detroit where they'd drop tons because of the car factories(i.e. quickly made into tank/jet factories in wartime)

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Post by Krebain » Tue Aug 02, 2005 2:56 am

Go out back with a shovel and start digging into the hill. I'm pretty sure I can make a big enough shelter for me and three others... Tell them to gather as much food & water as possible, and help me dig, and it's all good. 8)
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Post by Flashbang_E4T » Tue Aug 02, 2005 2:59 am

Head for Canada which is close. Failing that head to the mountains which are closer. Its unlikely it would be a full scale strategic strike, so fall out woudl be fairly limited. It would most likely be an exchange of tactical nukes at key strategic targets of which unfortunately I am near many.
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Post by General Grievous » Tue Aug 02, 2005 5:51 pm

according to a map im right where a bomb would hit so im screwed
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Post by General Grievous » Tue Aug 02, 2005 6:03 pm

also it would take 57 years for the fallout to go away so most people would be dead by age anyway due to harsh factors
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Post by ripped0ff » Wed Aug 03, 2005 8:54 am

silentassassin wrote:also it would take 57 years for the fallout to go away so most people would be dead by age anyway due to harsh factors
57 years? Depends where. Some areas it could take much longer to become safe to enter, and in others, it would only take a day or two at most. Some areas won't even be noticeably affected at all. On top of all that, even in high rad areas, you could still see limited exposure every day without any adverse effects. It all depends on where you are and the fallout patterns.

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Post by Cromwell » Tue Aug 16, 2005 8:06 pm

There are different maps as there are different opinions about nuclear war. Dr. Bruce Clayton's book "Life After Doomsday" relates that many of the horrible-looking fallout maps presume A) the nuclear weapons used are 100% fission bombs and B) All targets are struck by ground bursts. Dr. Clayton's fallout map taking in a mixture of fusion weapons and logical airbursts looks a little more like this (info he cites from a senate committee report):
Image

Also, though there are certainly nasty radioactive bits in fallout such as Cesium-137, the rate of decay of average radiactivity looks something like this

Given area 20 miles downwind of a target (avg windspeed 15mph):

0:00 No radiation level noted
1:00 10R/hr
2:00 1000R/hr (peak)
6:00 300R/hr
18:00 80R/hr
1 week: 5R/hr
1 month: 1R/hr


So then we look at the following:
(All doses cumulitive)


Acute Effects: 1 Week 1 Month 4 Months

0 medical care needed 150R 200R 300R

Some medical care
needed [few deaths] 250R 350R 500R

Most need medical care
[50% mortality] 450R 600R -


So, even in this case there you are 20 miles downwind of a burst, if you hide a hole for two weeks, your odds are pretty good that you won't become riddled with radiation poisoning. (Source, "Life After Doomsday" Bruce Clayton, PhD, and "Better Read than Dead" T.F. Nieman)

Lots of people say "I'll just go out into the front yard and watch 'em drop!"
I call B.S: The human race doesn't -as a rule- do that. We bite and kick and scream and fight death in every way that we can. It's in our nature.



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