Murphy's Bridge

Discuss those "what if" or "what would you do" scenarios you've been wondering about.

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Re: Murphy's Bridge

Post by jptp0831 » Sun Dec 14, 2008 10:35 am

FIDO
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Re: Murphy's Bridge

Post by Shmerlin » Sun Dec 14, 2008 3:30 pm

jptp0831 wrote:FIDO

Yes but which way?

Granted most of these responses are "text book" because we can't make a specific decision until we see the parameters of the particular situation.
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Re: Murphy's Bridge

Post by jptp0831 » Sun Dec 14, 2008 3:46 pm

Forward is the only way. You circle the "wagons" your dead. Stop your dead. Turn around your dead. Pushing through is your only chance. The lid of the kill jar is the weakest point.
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Re: Murphy's Bridge

Post by meatshieldChris » Mon Dec 15, 2008 11:14 am

meatshieldChris wrote:just cars in a blockade and small arms? engage the jump jets, fly over the forward barricade while twisting the torso to aim at the barricade, while charging ERPPCs. once you land, unleash an alpha strike on the barricade. you won't have to wait to stabilize after the landing, because you'll be close enough to aim easily. likely by then your lancemates will see what's going on and work on the rear barricade.

that's like mission #1 dude. the enemy convoy is just on the other side of the hill.
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Re: Murphy's Bridge

Post by MacAttack » Mon Dec 15, 2008 8:32 pm

I haven't played in years.

But yes I do like it.

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Re: Murphy's Bridge

Post by Electricity » Mon Dec 15, 2008 9:31 pm

Well, I've given this situation some thought and I think I know what I'd do. First some background.
my party would more then likely consist of more then three vehicles, so lets assume my group on the bridge is the advanced scout group. That being said, we probably would not have many soft targets with us, probably be fairly heavily armed, and expecting trouble.
Also, I'm kind of a gear head so if I where part of an assault group, I would like to think we had modified whatever vehicles to be more bullet proof/smashable.
I'm thinking about the people in my group, and what weapons and vehicles we have access to.
Our strike team of three would most likely consist of one of my buddy's second gen trans am's with dumpster steel welded on (we have local access to cutting tourches and weldy bits) as the first vehicle/scout. The second vehicle would probably then be someone's truck (possibly mine), again reinforced with 1/4 dumpster steel. And the final vehicle would be my buddies limo o' death. He's got a 1995 lincoln converted into a limo, we talk all the time about turning it into a PAW tank.
I guess the thought is, after tshtf, things are gonna get pretty boring pretty quick, unless your out looting for some reason, what better way to pass the time then choping up dumpsters and welding them to your car..
If we are taking pot shots from small arms fire I am going to assume the shooters are not terribly good, so I would say advabce to within 50 meters of the forward baricade, which would put ~150 meters between us and the rear, to long a range for inexperianced shooters with small arms. Put one or two guys facing back to defend against an advance, and systimatically eliminate the forward oposition.

In an ideal world..
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Re: Murphy's Bridge

Post by Shmerlin » Mon Dec 15, 2008 9:45 pm

I'm not positive on this, but I'm pretty sure that dumpsters are not "armor" grade steel...
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Re: Murphy's Bridge

Post by jptp0831 » Mon Dec 15, 2008 9:56 pm

This scenario was designed to make you think. Shit happens, your on a bridge you did not have time to scout. You can't change the rules. Shit happens deal with it. Four of my friends of died in Fallujah trying to cross a bridge. We had air support and everything else. They hung from the bridge until we cut them down. You can be a SEAL, Delta, SF, Recon or SAS do everything right and still end up dead. Shit happens. FIDO
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Re: Murphy's Bridge

Post by jptp0831 » Mon Dec 15, 2008 10:04 pm

S. Helvenston, Mike R. Teague, Jerko Gerald Zovko and Wesley J.K. Batalona. RIP
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Re: Murphy's Bridge

Post by Electricity » Mon Dec 15, 2008 11:40 pm

Shmerlin wrote:I'm not positive on this, but I'm pretty sure that dumpsters are not "armor" grade steel...
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Re: Murphy's Bridge

Post by Dark Cloud » Mon Dec 15, 2008 11:49 pm

jptp0831 wrote:S. Helvenston, Mike R. Teague, Jerko Gerald Zovko and Wesley J.K. Batalona. RIP
Dang.

One of my buddies in Intel had an uncle who retired from the CIA. He said they would spend months and months before ever beginning a mission, they would go over every conceivable scenario and contingency and, without fail, somethign would happen in the field that they were not prepared for. Just thinking about what you would do can help once the shtf, but at the same time, you could get bitten on the ankle by a left-over thawed-out zombie head on the way to your dumpster-armored, rocket-propelled mini-gun armed turbo school bus and be undead by dawn.
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Re: Murphy's Bridge

Post by Molon Labe » Tue Dec 16, 2008 7:19 pm

jptp0831 wrote: You can be a SEAL, Delta, SF, Recon or SAS do everything right and still end up dead. Shit happens. FIDO
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Re: Murphy's Bridge

Post by justsomeguy » Tue Dec 16, 2008 7:50 pm

Good one,

I'd return as much fire as possible, and charge full tilt at the barricade on the side of the bridge I wanted to end up at. hopefully the vehicles of my group could hit them from all four lanes, minimizing oblique fire from the barricade (not eliminating it) Fire superiority and speed would own this situation.

Unfortunately unless you had a large group you'd prolly be fucked. Unless, can you jump off this bridge? In this situation your dead anyway, so an aggressive push is all you could do.

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Re: Murphy's Bridge

Post by jptp0831 » Tue Dec 16, 2008 8:05 pm

justsomeguy has it dead on. The only way to break an ambush is to push through. Be angrier than them! Naked aggression, Force and Violence is the only way to live through it. You might no live through it anyway but some of your Mates might!
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Re: Murphy's Bridge

Post by Shmerlin » Thu Dec 18, 2008 2:39 pm

IF your plan is going well, you're walking into an ambush...

There is a good write up on why American forces are generally "Better" at warfare than most other countries (slight bias on my part) but the main reason is that we as americans have the mind set of "in the absence of orders, move forwad" where as most of the contenintal forces (Europe) have "in the absence of orders standfast" sort of mind set.

While this is a huge simplification, and has come to change a bit over the years is still generally true.

A couple of old sayings come to mind for situations like this. "If brute force dosen't work, you're not using enough brute force". And a good solution NOW is better than a perfect solution LATER.
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Re: Murphy's Bridge

Post by Dark Cloud » Thu Dec 18, 2008 7:12 pm

Shmerlin wrote:IF your plan is going well, you're walking into an ambush...

There is a good write up on why American forces are generally "Better" at warfare than most other countries (slight bias on my part) but the main reason is that we as americans have the mind set of "in the absence of orders, move forwad" where as most of the contenintal forces (Europe) have "in the absence of orders standfast" sort of mind set.

While this is a huge simplification, and has come to change a bit over the years is still generally true.

A couple of old sayings come to mind for situations like this. "If brute force dosen't work, you're not using enough brute force". And a good solution NOW is better than a perfect solution LATER.
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Re: Murphy's Bridge

Post by justsomeguy » Wed Dec 24, 2008 5:07 pm

I left out one important thing about fire superiority, to do this I would also need weapon superiority.
If the idiots at the barricade had fud guns and my group had highcap semi's this could increase the odds. There is a lot of crap about accurate fire, suppressive fire is more important, cool heads and aggressive ass kicking behavior may possibly stomp the hell out of this barricade. It would mean being able to unleash a wall of lead at the barricade, until it could be breached. Everyone in the group would have to empty mags into the barricade and at the same time rush it- bear in mind there is enemy to your back in this engagement.
What can you say about the weapons the ambushers have? and how many are to the front and rear?
I can also say automobiles don't make good cover, they offer some concealment- They tend to turn a rifle round into a flying wad of shrapnel increasing the "your fucked" zone. There would be a lot of that on their side of the barricade as 556 and 30 ball shredded itself flying through their meager obstacles.

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Re: Murphy's Bridge

Post by bobtdwarf » Thu Dec 25, 2008 12:53 am

raptor wrote:A stupid question... but why in the name of everything sensible 2 weeks after a collapse am I out driving around? Sorry but I would be hunkered down and not out and about playing Mad Max.

I do not get the concept that people expect to travel freely after a collapse. If you heading to your BOL that is one thing, but this concept of mounting scouting expeditions and unnecessarily exposing me & mine to the risk of running around like Mad Max leaves me befuddled. IMHO in a PAW you need to minimize risk, minimize the use of fuel and in general keep a low profile until time passes and the "issues" of the unprepared have worked themselves out between the unprepared and the violent unprepared, preferably in my absence.
Or run headlong into what is so obviously an ambush.

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Re: Murphy's Bridge

Post by jaybird » Fri Dec 26, 2008 1:23 pm

I hardly have the best solution to this. I could only guess that you'd maybe want to have a person on foot check it out from concealment with decent binoculars for a while before you went for the bridge. If he waits patiently enough (you live and die by what constitutes enough :( ) and watches, and they aren't the hypothetical flawless pro's that sometimes are mentioned, they might do something that breaks cover and concealment discipline (sticking his head up over cover, lighting cigs, smoker's cough, talking,etc.), you might be able to snipe some of them. Depending on your hardware prep (to include vehicles, arms, and armor) and men to carry it out, this might be feasible. Beyond that, recon and see that the situation isn't good and choose another route (special note: It is often advantageous to know where you're going before you try to go there). Otherwise, ram and break contact or ram/charge and counter ambush. that's all I got, guys. 'Hope rangers, seals, or other spec ops guys with more experience can help you better than me. I still think somebody's gonna get hurt.
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Re: Murphy's Bridge

Post by meanstreak » Fri Dec 26, 2008 2:48 pm

I'd have to plow forward as fast and hard as possible.
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Re: Murphy's Bridge

Post by Trent » Sat Dec 27, 2008 12:29 am

Or better yet, to improve on Jaybird's plan, have one of your best shots(armed with a scoped rifle) go with the spotter and find a position that gives you a clear view of the bridge. Anyone tries some ambushing, and you could raise Cain among the enemy. while your companions trapped on the bridge fight their way out.

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Re: Murphy's Bridge

Post by jaybird » Sat Dec 27, 2008 5:40 am

Also, you can use some of the sniping lessons we've learned from such places as 'Nam, eastern Europe, and Iraq, i.e shoot not to kill, but shoot to maim. If by luck or some other method an individual enemy leaves his cover to do anything that's out in the open, saying taking a piss or something, shoot him somewhere excruciatingly painful (groin, knee, lower abdomen, pelvis) but not immediately lethal. If his "friends" like him or need him or are undisciplined, they might break cover to try to help their fallen comrade. Then, go for kill shots. Your mileage may vary with this technique.
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Re: Murphy's Bridge

Post by meatshieldChris » Mon Dec 29, 2008 10:11 am

jaybird wrote:Also, you can use some of the sniping lessons we've learned from such places as 'Nam, eastern Europe, and Iraq, i.e shoot not to kill, but shoot to maim. If by luck or some other method an individual enemy leaves his cover to do anything that's out in the open, saying taking a piss or something, shoot him somewhere excruciatingly painful (groin, knee, lower abdomen, pelvis) but not immediately lethal. If his "friends" like him or need him or are undisciplined, they might break cover to try to help their fallen comrade. Then, go for kill shots. Your mileage may vary with this technique.
also a tip if you're doing the ambushing: if you've gotta piss, keep shooting and piss your pants.

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Re: Murphy's Bridge

Post by Goldor » Tue Dec 30, 2008 1:26 pm

I wouldn't really worry about it, the people around here that I would be with are those that I've been deployed with, we would be taking our trucks (read up armored Humvee) and be armed down just like over there.. If the idiots did ambush us like that we would open up with the .50's and 240's, we would spray the barricade up front before we push through and continue on our merry way.

The good thing about this black hole I'm stuck in (Fort Stewart) is that there are so many ways off post by tank trails that I'd not have to worry about being stopped, and if we where we'd give them a bull shit mission number and head on out anyways. The main people that are prepped for something like a Paw are Me, the Armorer and Ass. Armorer, the NBC guy, another medic, two mortars and a scout (who happens to be one of the two snipers in the company ;) ).
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