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PostPosted: Sat Aug 26, 2017 3:39 pm 
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Congratulations on your promotion, commander. I wish it could've been under better circumstances, but it's well deserved, nonetheless.

Here's the SITREP:

A landlocked city of one million people is now host to an infection of unknown origin. The leading theory is a local drug that has been aggressively distributed in the past month. There have been multiple casualties over three days, and local forces simply do not have the means to deal with it. The infected display erratic, violent behavior consistent with rabies, though they are also apparently impervious to pain, and immune to threats of force. Local forces have observed they can be put down by lethal and non-lethal means that do not rely on pain for their efficacy.

Additionally, there have been fires, riots, looting, and a wave of other criminal activities, on top of the recent blizzard that left four feet of snow on the ground. FEMA has arrived, and President Andrews has given you full authority over them and all other resources. The National Guard and regular Army is on site as well. The Air Force has been instrumental in getting federal resources into the region. Lastly, we have a private military company that has offered the assistance of some 5,000 mercenaries it can put on the ground in whatever capacity you choose.

This infection moves fast, and those infected will have a short time before they're symptomatic. You are advised to avoid direct bodily contact with the infected or their bodily fluids. Some reports indicate just letting the infected sweat on you is sufficient to infect you. Over three days, we have estimated some two hundred thousand and rising infected, fifty thousand dead, and three quarters of a million who are in need of help. We have decided to evacuate the city, but your primary objective is containment.

The nearest population centers are twenty miles away to the north, south, and east. The mountains directly to the west eliminate exit routes in that direction except by flight. Right now we can't spare aircraft for evacuation. I don't like it any more than you do, commander, but there it is. Any and all means necessary are authorized at your discretion.

In summary:

You have control over local resources, approximately 20,000 Army, National Guard, and Air Force, FEMA, and 5,000 mercenaries.
You have 200,000 hostile infected to contain.
You have approximately 750,000 civilians to evacuate. Some of those are involved in opportunistic crimes like rioting and looting.
Egress to the north, south, and east by ground only.
The infection is of an unknown origin, but may be attributed to a local drug.
Efforts have been hampered by cold weather and 4' of snowfall.

What is your plan?

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 26, 2017 5:10 pm 
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There will be no evacuation. I, as the reigning government official, am focusing on the very first sentence of the SITREP, that my fair city is host to this vile infection. This winter blizzard is actually a blessing in disguise, as the four feet of snow pack will keep the majority of citizens in, or very close to, their homes. No movement beyond city borders will be tolerated. Local police are hereby ordered to seal off all roadways leading in and out of the city, and are authorized to use deadly force to prevent anyone from coming in or out. These local law enforcement units will be told nothing else.

The military and mercenary forces, to the extent they have been garrisoned separately and have not already co-mingled with city residents, will be withdrawn and tasked with setting up a security cordon all around the city with strict orders to turn back anyone attempting to enter the city and shoot on sight those trying to leave. To the extent than any of these units already have been exposed to the local populace, they will be deputized to work with local law enforcement to assist with the aforementioned duties securing all entrances/exits to the city.

Some law enforcement will also be tasked with securing the local airport to prevent anyone from coming in or getting out by air. Once this is accomplished, they will be given orders to disable or destroy all commercial and private aircraft. In fact, just burn them all where they sit in their hangars and on the tarmac. Ditto the airport traffic control tower and that aviation fuel depot just southeast of runway 29. Anyone attempting to interfere will be summarily executed.

I and my immediate staff are of course exempted from these travel restrictions because none have ever been exposed to the local populace. My administration has long subscribed to the belief that ordinary constituents should be seen rather than heard from. Hence my failure to hold town hall meetings or even respond to constituent mail or email. My municipal government phone system, widely criticized as telephone-menu hell, is so by design. I don't want to even talk to these people.

Available military resources will be deployed to evacuate me and my inner circle by helicopter. Once at a safe distance I'll give President Andrews a call, but not before ordering the unexposed military units manning the security perimeter to withdraw under cover of darkness to a safe distance; say 20 miles. Belay that last order. I can't take the chance they have been inadvertently exposed. They stay at their stations.

This infection stops here and now. I will then recommend the president nuke the site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.

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Last edited by majorhavoc on Sat Aug 26, 2017 5:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 26, 2017 5:25 pm 
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1. The NG will cordon off the entire city. No one in or out. No exceptions.
2. Order the local populace to arm themselves & form a militia subordinate to the civil power.
3. The militia, under the immediate control of local PD, will attack the infected. Destroy every single one of them. Looters/criminals will
be treated as infected.
4. Supply PD/Militia as needed. It's their city, let them deal with it.
5. At first opportunity, evacuate children, elderly, disabled, non-infected casualties.
6. I am not above airstrikes. (napalm).

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 26, 2017 6:04 pm 
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Something, something, draw the rabid out so the snow will reduce their mobility, then allow them to freeze, something, something.Image

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 26, 2017 6:17 pm 
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majorhavoc wrote:
There will be no evacuation. I, as the reigning government official, am focusing on the very first sentence of the SITREP, that my fair city is host to this vile infection. This winter blizzard is actually a blessing in disguise, as the four feet of snow pack will keep the majority of citizens in, or very close to, their homes. No movement beyond city borders will be tolerated. Local police are hereby ordered to seal off all roadways leading in and out of the city, and are authorized to use deadly force to prevent anyone from coming in or out. These local law enforcement units will be told nothing else.

The military and mercenary forces, to the extent they have been garrisoned separately and have not already co-mingled with city residents, will be withdrawn and tasked with setting up a security cordon all around the city with strict orders to turn back anyone attempting to enter the city and shoot on sight those trying to leave. To the extent than any of these units already have been exposed to the local populace, they will be deputized to work with local law enforcement to assist with the aforementioned duties securing all entrances/exits to the city.

Some law enforcement will also be tasked with securing the local airport to prevent anyone from coming in or getting out by air. Once this is accomplished, they will be given orders to disable or destroy all commercial and private aircraft. In fact, just burn them all where they sit in their hangars and on the tarmac. Ditto the airport traffic control tower and that aviation fuel depot just southeast of runway 29. Anyone attempting to interfere will be summarily executed.

I and my immediate staff are of course exempted from these travel restrictions because none have ever been exposed to the local populace. My administration has long subscribed to the belief that ordinary constituents should be seen rather than heard from. Hence my failure to hold town hall meetings or even respond to constituent mail or email. My municipal government phone system, widely criticized as telephone-menu hell, is so by design. I don't want to even talk to these people.

Available military resources will be deployed to evacuate me and my inner circle by helicopter. Once at a safe distance I'll give President Andrews a call, but not before ordering the unexposed military units manning the security perimeter to withdraw under cover of darkness to a safe distance; say 20 miles. Belay that last order. I can't take the chance they have been inadvertently exposed. They stay at their stations.

This infection stops here and now. I will then recommend the president nuke the site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.



Somebody has been peeking at my contingency plans.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 26, 2017 6:52 pm 
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I think ones response will depend on the location of this city. Let's face it , The SITREP described here is just a normal weekend in some places. :oh:

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 26, 2017 6:55 pm 
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flybynight wrote:
I think ones response will depend on the location of this city. Let's face it , The SITREP described here is just a normal weekend in some places. :oh:

I based it on Colorado Springs. It's the scenario in the novel I'm writing, with slight modifications to fit it to a WWYD scenario.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 26, 2017 7:56 pm 
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Foolbard wrote:
flybynight wrote:
I think ones response will depend on the location of this city. Let's face it , The SITREP described here is just a normal weekend in some places. :oh:

I based it on Colorado Springs. It's the scenario in the novel I'm writing, with slight modifications to fit it to a WWYD scenario.
oh Ok. Then throw open the doors to the ditch weed stores and pass out the contents. After an hour things will quiet down

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 26, 2017 9:24 pm 
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I'd treat it like triage. I'd want to cut losses and wall it off, metaphorically. However, that would not sit well in the media.

I would roadblock all roads except for 3 ways in and out on opposite sides of the city called "safe ways" that lead to "safe zones". Have security on all other roads/access points. Every person would be told to arm themselves and stay indoors for a martial law type situation. During the day, they can make their way to the "safe ways". Once cleared as not infected, they would be put into quarantine in a "safe zone".

I would also have armored vehicles on call for any needs and have air surveillance. I would also have teams go in to exterminate the infected at night.

There would be a lot more details, but I don't feel like typing a bunch.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 27, 2017 2:32 pm 
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@OP - an interesting premise, to be sure. :)

A few other key factors to consider. Approxmiately 1 million population, but we don't know...

How many square miles to cover?
Quarantine is much easier to enforce in a dense urban environment vs rural mountain area, if we are ruling out airborne contamination. Are we? That could make a dramatic difference.

Colorado Springs is 195mi sq. That's roughly 14 x 14 miles, which means 56 miles to cordon off. At 25,000 men, you've got a human sentry every 12 feet, some with vehicles, emplacements, etc. Using just the armed forces that are not exposed to townfolk, it's still 1 every 15 feet.

With standard 7 magazines each, each infantryman would have 210 rounds each. At 10% accuracy beginning at 300 yards, each soldier should be able to take out 21 zeds before ostensibly becoming a zed himself. Remember, they aren't be shot at, which is generally the reason why their accuracy is low to begin with.

Calling all Zeds as fast as Usain Bolt, they cover 14 yards per second. 300/14 = soldiers have 21+ seconds to down 21 zeds assuming they have all bunched up in a line charging simultaneously, before they are out of ammo.

However, 200,000 zeds spread out over 56 miles = 1 zed every 1.5 feet. Each soldier only needs to pop 10 zeds to eliminate the threat when it is spread out on reasonably open ground.

Regardless, engaging the zeds in a tight space is NOT the way to go based on this math.

What is the infection rate?
Is it 100%? Just being touched is certain death? Just being spattered from a short distance? In these cases, the goal should then be to keep all zeds at a distance. Do not engage unless/until absolutely necessary.

What is incubation time?
You said a short time. How fast to go from healthy to fully zed? One day? 12 seconds? That makes a big difference. At 200k zeds and one day incubation time, the zeds can only generate another 200k per day, assuming every single one of them got one victim and perished in the act. At 12 seconds, they can rip thru the whole town in less than a minute in terms of total elapsed time.

With the info you've given us, I'd establish a cordon half way between the 14x14 mile quarantine area border and the next towns over. You said they were 20 miles away in 3 cardinal directions, with an impassible mountain in the 4th. So, that makes the quarantine 34x34 miles, and the total cordon 136 miles long.

That makes a plan for one soldier every 36 feet, again not taking any local militia/mercenaries into account AND not relying on the mountain to stop zeds. The odds of them taking down 10 zeds each with full loadout is pretty good, even if everything starts at the 300 yard mark and happens in just 20 seconds.

The distance also provides a secondary effect - lack of visibility & gun fire audible from 10 miles out is far reduced. You won't be attracting undue attention from the zeds until you're ready.

So, I'd build that cordon X miles out, giving time to build a wall. Say 10'-12' high, maybe a little less. Even multiple layers of chain link fencing should do the trick, since we're looking for build speed and movement delay, not a full movement stop.

There are 5,280 feet per mile, so you'd need 528 10' sections x mileage = a LOT of fencing. Now triple that for layers. Use the mercenaries as fence installers. 5000 men vs 528 10' sections = 9.5 miles per day if each man only could touch one 10' section per day. Call it 10 miles per day, it would take ~2 weeks to cover the whole area with one thin line of chain link fencing. Call it 3 lines since 1 man = 10' per day is ludicrously low.

The math is decidedly in the army's favor throughout this process. Let's take half the soldiers and put them on fence duty, with half standing guard. Fence now pops up in a few days, and soldiers still well within the math. Standard ammo deployments, standard accuracy, no one shooting back, etc. The only way the zeds are a real threat is if 100% of them bum-rush at the same time.

And THIS is the crux of my plan.

Given most civilizations can crumble based on the 9 meals rule, you have 3 days to ensure the remaining humanity within the quarantine area don't get restless. You actively communicate with the quarantined survivors getting them to hide / shelter in place / do not engage, while simultaneously letting them know you will be drawing out the zeds with noise etc over time beginning on day 2+ based on where the fence is complete. Ideally, you wait until the end of Day 3 so you already have fences 100% in case there are smart runners vs the brainless kind.

That said, if Days were started counting at Patient Zero that means we're at Day 6 which could mean a totally different set of circumstances. But it sounds like getting a city of 1 million to reach 200,000 zeds within 3 days, some semblance of "life as usual" had to be happening to infect that many people that fast. And food & water won't be a problem for the vast majority for just 3 days. Generally power & water will be on for a week barring big accidents.

Besides, I would be FAR more worried about the rest of the country trying to get INTO the no-go-zone to rescue their family. Numbers are WAYYYY worse for the armed forces that way. I'd encourage the public to show up to help build the fences, where they could be disarmed & watched.

The idea being lure out the rabid zombs, take them out & rescue to the (far larger) number of survivors. Decontamination etc happens after, including for all soldiers in the wire.

For this plague to be threatening, it needs to build more quickly or happen (at least begin) in a smaller + more populated area to overpower the military. Or you could decrease the personnel.

Another factor
Do the zombies die out naturally? Many movies about this one. I assumed anything that did occur did so outside the timeframe we're talking about just for containment.

Are headshots needed?
A rabid animal with a bullet thru vital organs still goes down.

Do we operate by typical Army admin guidelines?
For example, it takes WAY more personnel as support/logistics to field a fighting force than the actual combatant count. I have assumed the 20,000 number were all combatants but already had the ability to deploy where needed within a 136 mile limit.

Lastly, no mention of hospitals / medical facilities or personnel
Rabies is somewhat treatable, within a specified time frame. Assuming some similarities, this plan allows for the potential of likely 50% or greater of the infected to possibly be treated toward recovery vs euthanized. Even if it wasn't true (i.e. assume altruistic / benevolent stance, but treatment simply failed) the government "allowing" infected to die of the disease vs shooting them could be a reasonable alternative, given the choices. That's a PR win on top of the containment.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2017 7:37 am 
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Drop in a ton of earth works. basically treat it like a forest fire.

Hell mining equipment is remote controlled anyway these days.
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flybynight wrote:
Foolbard wrote:
flybynight wrote:
I think ones response will depend on the location of this city. Let's face it , The SITREP described here is just a normal weekend in some places. :oh:

I based it on Colorado Springs. It's the scenario in the novel I'm writing, with slight modifications to fit it to a WWYD scenario.
oh Ok. Then throw open the doors to the ditch weed stores and pass out the contents. After an hour things will quiet down

whats a ditch weed store ? :?

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2017 4:58 pm 
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Barnabus wrote:
flybynight wrote:
Foolbard wrote:
flybynight wrote:
I think ones response will depend on the location of this city. Let's face it , The SITREP described here is just a normal weekend in some places. :oh:

I based it on Colorado Springs. It's the scenario in the novel I'm writing, with slight modifications to fit it to a WWYD scenario.
oh Ok. Then throw open the doors to the ditch weed stores and pass out the contents. After an hour things will quiet down

whats a ditch weed store ? :?


I've never heard marijuana called "ditch weed," but he's saying just open the dispensaries and pass out their merchandise.

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Foolbard wrote:
Barnabus wrote:
flybynight wrote:
Foolbard wrote:
I based it on Colorado Springs. It's the scenario in the novel I'm writing, with slight modifications to fit it to a WWYD scenario.
oh Ok. Then throw open the doors to the ditch weed stores and pass out the contents. After an hour things will quiet down
whats a ditch weed store ? :?
I've never heard marijuana called "ditch weed," but he's saying just open the dispensaries and pass out their merchandise.
"ditch weed" is low-grade marijuana that grows wild, sometimes in a roadside ditch. It may give you a headache instead of a buzz.

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First step, destroy 3828 Piermont Dr NE Albuquerque, NM 87111. I seem to recall Daryl Dixon getting meth from that location.

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Quote:
The nearest population centers are twenty miles away to the north, south, and east. The mountains directly to the west eliminate exit routes in that direction except by flight. Right now we can't spare aircraft for evacuation. I don't like it any more than you do, commander, but there it is. Any and all means necessary are authorized at your discretion.

In summary:

You have control over local resources, approximately 20,000 Army, National Guard, and Air Force, FEMA, and 5,000 mercenaries.
You have 200,000 hostile infected to contain.
You have approximately 750,000 civilians to evacuate. Some of those are involved in opportunistic crimes like rioting and looting.
Egress to the north, south, and east by ground only.
The infection is of an unknown origin, but may be attributed to a local drug.
Efforts have been hampered by cold weather and 4' of snowfall.


My plan
1. Set up a perimeter. I want the three sides not facing the mountain to set multiple lanes (or as much as we have)of razor wire surrounding the city. This seems like a great job for the national guard.
2.I want the regular soldiers to set up quick field forts (think US civil war forts) simple tree logs or what material is available with trenches being dug behind them. As the first forts (closest to the city) are being made I want those defended by the mercs and the ones farther back regular army. Think of the system as several obtuse triangles with the top point (merc guarded) facing the city.
3.I use air and and vehicles in the very back sort of like a cavalry force any that attempt to flee and make it past the fort's line of fire will be stopped by these forces.
4. I make it known those who approach these forces will be shot on sight and this means anyone from any direction who is not part of my command.
5. I also make it known the only way out is the mountain. It's easily defended with even a small force if necessary. I tell the local population through loudspeakers and air dropped leaflets that we will evacuate the city by calling out street blocks in a lottery system, this can be monitored and enforced by snipers on the mountain. No one is forced to evacuate, I can't spare the troops to enforce an evacuation so I won't order it. I tell them if they evacuate they will be divided up by sex so that each person can be searched for wounds by a medic of their gender. This part is not optional.
6. Fema is on the other side of the mountain.
7. Jam or destroy any satellite, internet, radio, tv, telephone, or fax lines in or out of the city.
8. Have a failsafe option to be ordered (by the President) if I call the president and inform him the containment has failed. Make this known to the city population.
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You guys are pretty rough. See you at the war crimes trial. :crazy:

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flybynight wrote:
You guys are pretty rough. See you at the war crimes trial. :crazy:


There won't be any war crimes trial if there is no war... (and no court martial if all the evidence was destroyed in the blast).

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flybynight wrote:
You guys are pretty rough. See you at the war crimes trial. :crazy:


OP's using this scenario for his novel. Everyone knows that heartless, cowardly leaders with plans to sacrifice their own citizens makes for gripping drama. If I had more time writing my reply, I would have added the part about ripping off my prosthetic mask to reveal my hideous reptilian face, feasting on my shocked subordinates and then kidnapping the President.

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Stercutus wrote:
flybynight wrote:
You guys are pretty rough. See you at the war crimes trial. :crazy:


There won't be any war crimes trial if there is no war... (and no court martial if all the evidence was destroyed in the blast).


The ending of the Crazies pretty much wraps up how this would go ...


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I'm stunned that the obvious solution has not come about yet:

1. Build obstacles that make leaving the city impossible for infected.

2. Order all citizens to lock themselves into their apartments from 18:00 to 06:00. Declare martial law, whatever, have men in IFVs patrolling the streets to enforce it. Naturally, shoot any zeds you spot.

3. Disconnect all buildings that do not directly have people in them from electric power and heating.

Because, in this scenario, the infected are human beings who have a disease, rather than 'zombies' per se, anyone who is left in subzero temperatures for 12 hours freezes to death or dies from hypothermia. Remember, having one disease doesn't prevent you from having another.

Come morning, you go house to house and gradually select people for your evacuation.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 05, 2017 6:55 pm 
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MicroBalrog wrote:
I'm stunned that the obvious solution has not come about yet:

1. Build obstacles that make leaving the city impossible for infected.

2. Order all citizens to lock themselves into their apartments from 18:00 to 06:00. Declare martial law, whatever, have men in IFVs patrolling the streets to enforce it. Naturally, shoot any zeds you spot.

3. Disconnect all buildings that do not directly have people in them from electric power and heating.

Because, in this scenario, the infected are human beings who have a disease, rather than 'zombies' per se, anyone who is left in subzero temperatures for 12 hours freezes to death or dies from hypothermia. Remember, having one disease doesn't prevent you from having another.

Come morning, you go house to house and gradually select people for your evacuation.


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The OP said "may be caused by drugs" That says to me they don't know or aren't telling. If it was caused by drugs that would put a lot of people more at ease. So you have to ask yourself why they used that wording. Since you are in charge I say plan for the worst (zombies back from the dead) hope for the best.

I mean, isn't every zombie movie basically
1 Hey, what's that
2. Don't worry we got it under control
3. Something's gone terribly wrong
4. Oh God! How could this happen? Zombies are everywhere!

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 6:37 am 
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The wording of 'infected' seems to imply that they're guys who are 'infected' with something, i.e. like a disease rather than back from the dead.

At any rate if they're actually zombies we can lure them towards the anti-personnel obstacles in #1 and shoot them in the head I guess?


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