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How to respond if he still had the AR
1. You have a gun that means you attack 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
2. You are clearly outgunned don't attack, but defend yourself 67%  67%  [ 2 ]
3. Run away 33%  33%  [ 1 ]
Total votes : 3
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 Post subject: Nashville mad shooter
PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2018 9:12 pm 
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So a crazy person unloaded on unsuspecting diners at a Waffle House in Antioch. TN around 3:00 AM today :cry: . This is a poorer suburb of Nashville. It seems he shot 6 people with an AR-15 killing four and then the gun jammed and a customer grabbed the gun and threw it behind the counter. As of now the murderer is still on the loose.
There was an interview of a witness that states he saw the murderer walk past his truck with the rifle and again he witnessed him running back from waffle house disarmed (naked at this point) from underneath his vehicle seeing the perpetrator's feet. Now I assume this witness was not armed. I have no idea how old or able he was.
I always carry a P-83 9x18 pistol in my car with 2 8 round mags. I got to thinking what would I do in this situation.
I came to the conclusion I would act if he were unarmed or carrying a pistol. If he had a rifle I suppose I would not act unless directly threatened. I am not a cop or military, do I have a responsibility to act even if I am at a severe disadvantage? Thoughts?

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2018 11:09 pm 
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This is more of a WWYD than PE but I'll play.

Your first responsibility is to yourself or as you will to your loved ones and whoever else is important in your life. Can't do much for them if you are dead.

That being said a naked man carrying a gun at 3am on a city street is going to set off alarm bells for me. No matter what he is planning I'd call the police and then try to interfere with whatever his misguided mission is. I'd assume he is either mental or out of his mind on drugs. How I interfere would depend a lot on his size, shape, the orientation and type of his weapon and a whole host of other factors that I really can't cover in a simple post.

Naked man with a gun at 3am? That might be one to step up on if you are ready, willing and able.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 12:04 am 
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Thanks for your response Stercutus. I would like to point out he was not naked hen he walked into the waffle house but was when he left. Details are still slim at this point. I guess what I am really getting at is ... would you try to take him out with the firearm I had at the time not knowing if he still had the AR or another weapon. The witness only saw a guy walk in, heard shooting, then exited his vehicle and laid down. I can't blame the guy even if he was armed (again we don't know if he was or not). He just saw the feet of the perp nothing else. There is no wrong answer I was just wondering what you would do if you were in my shoes armed with what I had with information at the time?

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 2:23 am 
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I read he was wearing no pants but was wearing a jacket that he ditched after the shooting. That's naked enough to me. Even if he were wearing drawers that would be enough for me.

On the way out? After the shooting? I assume the witness saw the shooting and took cover. That makes sense. Run, hide, fight and all that.

Yeah, so if I saw someone turn the local Waffle House into a reactive target shooting range and I were armed, I would shoot to end the threat to human life. Not much else to it.

If the person were running away after killing people and not armed (notably not armed because they are nude) then I would do what I did last time and grab them, truss them up and deliver them to the proper authorities. I will tell you from experience that grappling with a naked man is difficult and not for the untrained. You run a high risk of injury to yourself and the subject. It most often involves arm bars and pain submission. If the person is a mental subject or high on drugs it can make it that much tougher. Better than letting them escape (as was the case here) because the public is at risk until he is caught. While not all the facts are in he appears to be someone who kills indiscriminately with no regard for human life.



A sub question might be what if I were not armed? The easy answer is I would not be. Waffle House may prohibit guns (our local one has no sign) but there is no force of state law at our Waffle House for banning guns. If you are armed they can demand that you leave and if you do not then you are trespassing but what they don't see, they don't know.

But I don't eat at Waffle House anyway. The employees at our local one do not like the police eating there because they say it drives away their customers. Most of their customers being intoxicated. So none of the police or Sheriff's deputies eat at the local Waffle House and instead it is a bunch of drunks. I went ahead and extended that to all Waffle Houses everywhere. Which is a shame because I did like their hash browns, however Cracker Barrel is much better and about the same price for a full breakfast.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 11:35 am 
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I couple years ago I saw I picture of a guy walking into a Walmart with an AR slung across his back. It was a 'statement' for open carry in an open carry State. He was a law abiding citizen just doing what law abiding citizens do in an open carry state.

How do I know this? Profiling: He was wearing pants. :roll:


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Sercutus wrote:
I will tell you from experience that grappling with a naked man is difficult and not for the untrained.

They come with a built in handle, some might be hard to grasp though, it just takes a lot of one on one practice.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 1:43 pm 
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Quote:
They come with a built in handle, some might be hard to grasp though, it just takes a lot of one on one practice.


I know a nurse really well. She tells me you can't even find the handle on many men. Makes a for a long night of inserting catheters.



At least they caught the murderer. He appears to be mental.

I am gonna go out out another limb here and say that he was taking or had recently quit taking psychotropic drugs either prescribed or recreational. No reports of that yet, just going out on a limb because all the rest of the non-terrorist shooters pretty much do that. Nothing yet to indicate he is a terrorist.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 7:40 pm 
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I have to given my response to such a situation a lot of thought over the years. IMO my response would be very situational dependent.

I just want to point out the one thing that people forget. It is that if you are on a vehicle you have a great means of reacting if the douche is anywhere near a street.

Forget the caliber arguments and pistol vs rifle discussions. Even the smallest sedan at 30 mph packs true honest to God knockdown power. A pick up truck is that much more kenetic energy.

If you do use a vehicle the double tap is out but the slam on the breaks and reverse over the douche again and then stop on top of the douche works well. Well I guess you could call it a triple tap.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 8:05 pm 
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raptor wrote:
I have to given my response to such a situation a lot of thought over the years. IMO my response would be very situational dependent.

I just want to point out the one thing that people forget. It is that if you are on a vehicle you have a great means of reacting if the douche is anywhere near a street.

Forget the caliber arguments and pistol vs rifle discussions. Even the smallest sedan at 30 mph packs true honest to God knockdown power. A pick up truck is that much more kenetic energy.

If you do use a vehicle the double tap is out but the slam on the breaks and reverse over the douche again and then stop on top of the douche works well. Well I guess you could call it a triple tap.



Let's see, a small car weighs 14,000,000 grains. Traveling at 44fps (30MPH) I come up with 60,193 ft/lbs. This is much better then 50BMG.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 8:14 pm 
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There's a simple answer: Do the Right Thing.
That you wonder what you would do in any situation where there is a crime and you are armed speaks volumes about why our system meanders along smartly.
Despite all the freaking stupidity and school demons and absurdity, a good guy considers his part in trying to make things right.
Yeah, man.

The responsibility is held by everyone that must bear witness to injustice.
Not just the protector Or neglector.
It's like second hand smoke.

A good play when under armed is the surprise attack without mercy.
(And not in the Little Big Man: Custer kind of way)
One has to be certain.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 10:15 pm 
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Asymetryczna wrote:
There's a simple answer: Do the Right Thing.


In my own words, I have to consider what I can live with after the fact. And honestly, reacting to a shooter can get you killed. But last I checked, life is 100% fatal. I would hate to leave my wife and child. I know a lot of men have done exactly that in defense of others. I for one believe we need to be ready for our end at all times. Prepping is not 100% effective at warding off evil. Any one of us on this forum could fail to see the sun rise tomorrow. For me it is important to be prepared in this world but be ready for the next since death is the only real guarantee I think I have.

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