Robot Uprising - Or, what to do when AI Does All The Jobs

Discuss those "what if" or "what would you do" scenarios you've been wondering about.

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Re: Robot Uprising - Or, what to do when AI Does All The Job

Post by flybynight » Mon May 01, 2017 8:20 pm

so will 5.56 or 7.62/39 take down marauding robots? Or should I up size. Anybody have a plasma rifle in 40 watt range for sale?
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Re: Robot Uprising - Or, what to do when AI Does All The Job

Post by MPMalloy » Mon May 01, 2017 8:22 pm

flybynight wrote:so will 5.56 or 7.62/39 take down marauding robots? Or should I up size. Anybody have a plasma rifle in 40 watt range for sale?
BAR-30.06 AP at a minimum. :clownshoes:

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Re: Robot Uprising - Or, what to do when AI Does All The Job

Post by Cowgirl » Mon May 01, 2017 8:52 pm

MPMalloy wrote:
Cowgirl wrote:I'm too old to be likely to lose my job to a robot before I retire, but I wonder about our kids and grandkids. Changes, major, potentially cataclysmic changes, are coming to our society at a speed that I don't think most people appreciate. There will be job losses on a massive scale, and it won't be just the low end jobs. There may be new jobs that I cannot even imagine yet, but I strongly suspect that there will be fewer jobs. I think it unlikely that we will navigate those changes easily as a society. Other than that I will skirt the balance of those thoughts that veer into the political and are not appropriate for this site. :oh:

My response to this is that I'm pushing quite hard to be an even more self-sufficient homesteader / prepper. I have always figured that self-sufficiency is the best way to weather tumultuous times. It served us well during the Great Recession and I hope it will serve us well heading into the next interesting time. We live in Interesting Times, don't we? :mrgreen:
I feel that this will not end well.
I'm a cautious optimist for the long term. But I think there will be a rocky transition. This is as big as the industrial revolution.

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Re: Robot Uprising - Or, what to do when AI Does All The Job

Post by MPMalloy » Mon May 01, 2017 8:55 pm

Cowgirl wrote:
MPMalloy wrote:
Cowgirl wrote:I'm too old to be likely to lose my job to a robot before I retire, but I wonder about our kids and grandkids. Changes, major, potentially cataclysmic changes, are coming to our society at a speed that I don't think most people appreciate. There will be job losses on a massive scale, and it won't be just the low end jobs. There may be new jobs that I cannot even imagine yet, but I strongly suspect that there will be fewer jobs. I think it unlikely that we will navigate those changes easily as a society. Other than that I will skirt the balance of those thoughts that veer into the political and are not appropriate for this site. :oh:

My response to this is that I'm pushing quite hard to be an even more self-sufficient homesteader / prepper. I have always figured that self-sufficiency is the best way to weather tumultuous times. It served us well during the Great Recession and I hope it will serve us well heading into the next interesting time. We live in Interesting Times, don't we? :mrgreen:
I feel that this will not end well.
I'm a cautious optimist for the long term. But I think there will be a rocky transition. This is as big as the industrial revolution.
I heard something on one of my podcasts about taxing robots to fund a basic income plan. I never went that far in my economics to think something like that out, although I'm sure that it looks good on paper...

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Re: Robot Uprising - Or, what to do when AI Does All The Job

Post by JeeperCreeper » Mon May 01, 2017 9:49 pm

When people say "kill it with fire"... I wonder if that will work with the robot apocalypse??

I feel like fire would be a good way to short circuit a robot overlord since most electronics are waterproof and bullets may not be effective
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Re: Robot Uprising - Or, what to do when AI Does All The Job

Post by MPMalloy » Mon May 01, 2017 10:00 pm

JeeperCreeper wrote:When people say "kill it with fire"... I wonder if that will work with the robot apocalypse?? I feel like fire would be a good way to short circuit a robot overlord since most electronics are waterproof and bullets may not be effective
Electronics do not do well when they get hot. Ask any PC.

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Re: Robot Uprising - Or, what to do when AI Does All The Job

Post by NamelessStain » Tue May 02, 2017 5:34 am

MPMalloy wrote:
JeeperCreeper wrote:When people say "kill it with fire"... I wonder if that will work with the robot apocalypse?? I feel like fire would be a good way to short circuit a robot overlord since most electronics are waterproof and bullets may not be effective
Electronics do not do well when they get hot. Ask any PC.
Military gear has more robust requirements than a store bought PC. Just sayin'
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Re: Robot Uprising - Or, what to do when AI Does All The Job

Post by Zimmy » Tue May 02, 2017 7:08 am

I have a paratrooper buddy who helped design a wireless taser. That should do some damage.
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Re: Robot Uprising - Or, what to do when AI Does All The Job

Post by Hiroshima_Morphine » Tue May 02, 2017 7:13 am

AP .308
Commies to the left of me, Nazis to the right
Here I am stuck in the middle... with you?

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Re: Robot Uprising - Or, what to do when AI Does All The Job

Post by Cowgirl » Tue May 02, 2017 6:54 pm

NamelessStain wrote:
MPMalloy wrote:
JeeperCreeper wrote:When people say "kill it with fire"... I wonder if that will work with the robot apocalypse?? I feel like fire would be a good way to short circuit a robot overlord since most electronics are waterproof and bullets may not be effective
Electronics do not do well when they get hot. Ask any PC.
Military gear has more robust requirements than a store bought PC. Just sayin'
Of course, no one here is seriously thinking that robots taking over jobs can be stopped with any manner of weaponry, but this discussion has reminded me of history. The Industrial Revolution was unkind to craftsmen of all types. It put many skilled people out of work. And not all of them lost their work peacefully.

The Luddites were textile workers (weavers) who destroyed weaving machinery that was taking their work. That protest earned them a place in history as a lesson in the futility of violence against "progress." It earned them a remembrance in our language (Luddite is an insult hurled at those who don't like "progress" to this day). But destroying mechanical looms didn't save their jobs. It didn't stop anyone from buying the new cheaper textiles. It certainly didn't change the course of history.

I think we as a society can learn a thing or two from history. Unfortunately, I don't know if we will learn from it (as a society we generally DON'T learn from history). Whatever society does or doesn't do, we all as individuals need to consider prepping for possible job loss and also for civil unrest caused by massive job losses.

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Re: Robot Uprising - Or, what to do when AI Does All The Job

Post by MPMalloy » Tue May 02, 2017 6:58 pm

NamelessStain wrote:Military gear has more robust requirements than a store bought PC. Just sayin'
Whad'ya recommend?

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Re: Robot Uprising - Or, what to do when AI Does All The Job

Post by flybynight » Tue May 02, 2017 7:23 pm

Just today we got a new HVAC system for the house. It's all so modern and techy. I can control it with my phone when I'm not home via internet connection and even check weather forecast , radar and get storm alerts on the screen of the thermostat.
But I know that just as I fall asleep tonight I'll be wondering if the new robot overlords are watching me in my sleep in the internet of things from behind the soft gentle glow of the thermostat screen...waiting.... watching... planning my destruction with cold, deliberate, logical, malignant intent. :shock: :( :cry: :gonk: FU SKYNET, THERE IS NO FATE!
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Re: Robot Uprising - Or, what to do when AI Does All The Job

Post by Zimmy » Tue May 02, 2017 7:38 pm

Cowgirl wrote:
NamelessStain wrote:
MPMalloy wrote:
JeeperCreeper wrote:When people say "kill it with fire"... I wonder if that will work with the robot apocalypse?? I feel like fire would be a good way to short circuit a robot overlord since most electronics are waterproof and bullets may not be effective
Electronics do not do well when they get hot. Ask any PC.
Military gear has more robust requirements than a store bought PC. Just sayin'
Of course, no one here is seriously thinking that robots taking over jobs can be stopped with any manner of weaponry, but this discussion has reminded me of history. The Industrial Revolution was unkind to craftsmen of all types. It put many skilled people out of work. And not all of them lost their work peacefully.

The Luddites were textile workers (weavers) who destroyed weaving machinery that was taking their work. That protest earned them a place in history as a lesson in the futility of violence against "progress." It earned them a remembrance in our language (Luddite is an insult hurled at those who don't like "progress" to this day). But destroying mechanical looms didn't save their jobs. It didn't stop anyone from buying the new cheaper textiles. It certainly didn't change the course of history.

I think we as a society can learn a thing or two from history. Unfortunately, I don't know if we will learn from it (as a society we generally DON'T learn from history). Whatever society does or doesn't do, we all as individuals need to consider prepping for possible job loss and also for civil unrest caused by massive job losses.
I'm a career millwright entering the field of controls and automation. I'm adapting as well as I can.
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Re: Robot Uprising - Or, what to do when AI Does All The Job

Post by NamelessStain » Wed May 03, 2017 5:37 am

MPMalloy wrote:
NamelessStain wrote:Military gear has more robust requirements than a store bought PC. Just sayin'
Whad'ya recommend?
Look into Rugged PCs. They are only a few years behind. Depending on your requirements, there are also EMP resistant internals. They may not be available for commercial sales, I haven't looked at buying them :)
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Q wrote:Buckle up

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Re: Robot Uprising - Or, what to do when AI Does All The Job

Post by JeeperCreeper » Wed May 03, 2017 8:06 am

Not sure if it were posted on here or how legit, but I saw a headline on Facebook that said:

Artificial intelligence robot tells human makers that robots will put people in Human Zoos.

Or something like that haha.
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Re: Robot Uprising - Or, what to do when AI Does All The Job

Post by LowKey » Wed May 03, 2017 8:55 am

JeeperCreeper wrote:Not sure if it were posted on here or how legit, but I saw a headline on Facebook that said:

Artificial intelligence robot tells human makers that robots will put people in Human Zoos.

Or something like that haha.
I recall a short story written sometime in the 70' where humans were basically trapped in their homes being fed boring but nutritiously idea gruel, prevented from doing anything physical because of the slight chance they might suffer an injury, all because mankind had developed robots with AI and instilled in them the duty to protect humans.

It wasn't the Asimov "Robot" series, but it might have been by Asimov. Surely it was at least influenced or inspired by his works at the very least.
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Re: Robot Uprising - Or, what to do when AI Does All The Job

Post by LowKey » Wed May 03, 2017 8:59 am

Cowgirl wrote:
NamelessStain wrote:
MPMalloy wrote:
JeeperCreeper wrote:When people say "kill it with fire"... I wonder if that will work with the robot apocalypse?? I feel like fire would be a good way to short circuit a robot overlord since most electronics are waterproof and bullets may not be effective
Electronics do not do well when they get hot. Ask any PC.
Military gear has more robust requirements than a store bought PC. Just sayin'
Of course, no one here is seriously thinking that robots taking over jobs can be stopped with any manner of weaponry, but this discussion has reminded me of history. The Industrial Revolution was unkind to craftsmen of all types. It put many skilled people out of work. And not all of them lost their work peacefully.
I'm reminded of how the original Orson Welles story War of the Worlds ended...with the invading Martians killed by the common cold.

An AI will always be a computer program of some sort, and the rule GIGO will more than likely always apply. If their code develops a flaw they're going to have issues. How severe I suppose will depend on the particular flaw.
“Political tags – such as royalist, communist, democrat, populist, fascist, liberal, conservative, and so forth – are never basic criteria. The human race divides politically into those who want people to be controlled and those who have no such desire.” Robert A. Heinlein

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Re: Robot Uprising - Or, what to do when AI Does All The Job

Post by JeeperCreeper » Wed May 03, 2017 9:01 am

Here it is. I guess it's old... From around 2015

http://tribunist.com/science/robot-with ... zoo-video/
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Re: Robot Uprising - Or, what to do when AI Does All The Job

Post by Neville » Tue May 09, 2017 3:27 pm

New neural net breakthrough in language processing/translation:


Facebook’s New AI Could Lead to Translations That Actually Make Sense

https://www.wired.com/2017/05/facebook- ... =social_fb
Facebook’s approach relies on neural networks, complex mathematical systems that can learn tasks by analyzing vast amounts of data. Over the past several years, this general technique has rapidly reinvented everything from image recognition to speech recognition to online search. Now it’s overhauling the field of machine translation.
...
“We’ve seen more improvements over the past two years than we have seen in the past decade,” says John Tinsley, the CEO of Iconic Translation Machines, a translation technology company based in Dublin.
...
Facebook is taking a slightly different tack ... It’s using what are called convolutional neural networks... Rather than analyze a sentence sequentially, one piece at a time, a convolutional neural network can analyze many different pieces at once, before organizing those pieces into a logical hierarchy.
...
Even if the system is only marginally more accurate than systems like the one Google rolled out in the fall, the company says its technique is about nine times more efficient that other neural network-based methods. Convolutional neural networks are better at processing different pieces of a dataset at the same time. “You can have parallel computation on different parts of a sentence,” Manning says. “You don’t have to push things along word by word.”
...
Facebook is not only publishing a paper describing its new system but open-sourcing the software engine that drives the system, freely sharing the code with the world at large.
Notice again, progress is NOT linear, sudden breakthroughs lead to huge advances in a surprisingly short span of time. Open sourcing the code for other researchers to learn from accelerates the field even more.

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Re: Robot Uprising - Or, what to do when AI Does All The Job

Post by flybynight » Tue May 09, 2017 4:26 pm

Neville wrote:New neural net breakthrough in language processing/translation:


Facebook’s New AI Could Lead to Translations That Actually Make Sense

https://www.wired.com/2017/05/facebook- ... =social_fb
Facebook’s approach relies on neural networks, complex mathematical systems that can learn tasks by analyzing vast amounts of data. Over the past several years, this general technique has rapidly reinvented everything from image recognition to speech recognition to online search. Now it’s overhauling the field of machine translation.
...
“We’ve seen more improvements over the past two years than we have seen in the past decade,” says John Tinsley, the CEO of Iconic Translation Machines, a translation technology company based in Dublin.
...
Facebook is taking a slightly different tack ... It’s using what are called convolutional neural networks... Rather than analyze a sentence sequentially, one piece at a time, a convolutional neural network can analyze many different pieces at once, before organizing those pieces into a logical hierarchy.
...
Even if the system is only marginally more accurate than systems like the one Google rolled out in the fall, the company says its technique is about nine times more efficient that other neural network-based methods. Convolutional neural networks are better at processing different pieces of a dataset at the same time. “You can have parallel computation on different parts of a sentence,” Manning says. “You don’t have to push things along word by word.”
...
Facebook is not only publishing a paper describing its new system but open-sourcing the software engine that drives the system, freely sharing the code with the world at large.
Notice again, progress is NOT linear, sudden breakthroughs lead to huge advances in a surprisingly short span of time. Open sourcing the code for other researchers to learn from accelerates the field even more.
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Re: Robot Uprising - Or, what to do when AI Does All The Job

Post by Neville » Wed May 10, 2017 12:43 pm

Robots of one type, transferring skills to a robot of a completely different type. Next step will be teaching themselves without human interference.


The Little Robot That Taught the Big Robot a Thing or Two

https://www.wired.com/2017/05/little-ro ... =social_fb
The researchers started by teaching Optimus—a two-armed robot meant for bomb disposals—how to pull a tube out of another tube. First, they gave it some information about how different objects require different manipulations. Then they held its hand in a sim. “Imagine kind of a videogame where the robot is inside that 3-D world,” says roboticist Claudia Perez-D’Arpino, co-author of the study. “With the mouse you can basically grab the hands and move them around.”

This way, you don’t have to be a gifted coder to be able to command a robot. And it’s all the more intuitive for the operator because it’s a lot like how humans learn: Toddlers have a knowledge base of, say, grasping a binky, but can recontextualize that knowledge of manipulation as they encounter new objects.

Now, how to transfer the robot’s skills to a biped Atlas many times its size? After all, this bot has a new challenge: not falling on its face. “So mathematically that can be written as another series of constraints,” says Perez-D’Arpino, “which if you can imagine is like, keep your center of mass within some region.” Essentially, the operator has to give the new robot some rules, like how to balance correctly, to perform the same task as Optimus. Combine those rules with what Optimus has already learned about manipulating the tubes, and you get a smooth transfer of knowledge. It’s not an automatic handoff, to be sure, but it’s a start.
...
the development is a glimpse into a future where, more and more, robots communicate without humans at all. They might, for instance, teach themselves to pull tubes out of tubes through a process known as reinforcement learning—essentially trying and trying and trying until they finally get it right.

The Atlas Robot:

http://www.bostondynamics.com/robot_Atlas.html

ImageImageImage
Atlas is a high mobility, humanoid robot designed to negotiate outdoor, rough terrain. Atlas can walk bipedally leaving the upper limbs free to lift, carry, and manipulate the environment. In extremely challenging terrain, Atlas is strong and coordinated enough to climb using hands and feet, to pick its way through congested spaces.

Articulated, sensate hands will enable Atlas to use tools designed for human use. Atlas includes 28 hydraulically-actuated degrees of freedom, two hands, arms, legs, feet and a torso.

An articulated sensor head includes stereo cameras and a laser range finder. Atlas is powered from an off-board, electric power supply via a flexible tether.

Several copies of the Atlas robot are being provided as Government Furnished Equipment for the DARPA Robotics Challenge program with delivery scheduled in the summer of 2013.


Atlas in Action - Field Demo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rVlhMGQgDkY

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Re: Robot Uprising - Or, what to do when AI Does All The Job

Post by MPMalloy » Wed May 10, 2017 1:21 pm

Neville wrote:Robots of one type, transferring skills to a robot of a completely different type. Next step will be teaching themselves without human interference.


The Little Robot That Taught the Big Robot a Thing or Two

https://www.wired.com/2017/05/little-ro ... =social_fb
The researchers started by teaching Optimus—a two-armed robot meant for bomb disposals—how to pull a tube out of another tube. First, they gave it some information about how different objects require different manipulations. Then they held its hand in a sim. “Imagine kind of a videogame where the robot is inside that 3-D world,” says roboticist Claudia Perez-D’Arpino, co-author of the study. “With the mouse you can basically grab the hands and move them around.”

This way, you don’t have to be a gifted coder to be able to command a robot. And it’s all the more intuitive for the operator because it’s a lot like how humans learn: Toddlers have a knowledge base of, say, grasping a binky, but can recontextualize that knowledge of manipulation as they encounter new objects.

Now, how to transfer the robot’s skills to a biped Atlas many times its size? After all, this bot has a new challenge: not falling on its face. “So mathematically that can be written as another series of constraints,” says Perez-D’Arpino, “which if you can imagine is like, keep your center of mass within some region.” Essentially, the operator has to give the new robot some rules, like how to balance correctly, to perform the same task as Optimus. Combine those rules with what Optimus has already learned about manipulating the tubes, and you get a smooth transfer of knowledge. It’s not an automatic handoff, to be sure, but it’s a start.
...
the development is a glimpse into a future where, more and more, robots communicate without humans at all. They might, for instance, teach themselves to pull tubes out of tubes through a process known as reinforcement learning—essentially trying and trying and trying until they finally get it right.

The Atlas Robot:

http://www.bostondynamics.com/robot_Atlas.html

ImageImageImage
Atlas is a high mobility, humanoid robot designed to negotiate outdoor, rough terrain. Atlas can walk bipedally leaving the upper limbs free to lift, carry, and manipulate the environment. In extremely challenging terrain, Atlas is strong and coordinated enough to climb using hands and feet, to pick its way through congested spaces.

Articulated, sensate hands will enable Atlas to use tools designed for human use. Atlas includes 28 hydraulically-actuated degrees of freedom, two hands, arms, legs, feet and a torso.

An articulated sensor head includes stereo cameras and a laser range finder. Atlas is powered from an off-board, electric power supply via a flexible tether.

Several copies of the Atlas robot are being provided as Government Furnished Equipment for the DARPA Robotics Challenge program with delivery scheduled in the summer of 2013.


Atlas in Action - Field Demo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rVlhMGQgDkY
This is real-world scary. No other way to put it.

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Re: Robot Uprising - Or, what to do when AI Does All The Job

Post by raptor » Wed May 10, 2017 1:31 pm

MPMalloy wrote: This is real-world scary. No other way to put it.
I for one welcome our new robot overlords!

Instead of "Would you like fries with that?" Repeat after me:

"Would you like some lubricant to go along with your power charge, Mr Robot, sir?"

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Re: Robot Uprising - Or, what to do when AI Does All The Job

Post by MPMalloy » Wed May 10, 2017 1:38 pm

raptor wrote:
MPMalloy wrote:This is real-world scary. No other way to put it.
I for one welcome our new robot overlords! Instead of "Would you like fries with that?" Repeat after me: "Would you like some lubricant to go along with your power charge, Mr Robot, sir?"
Not funny Raptor! :clownshoes:

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