Robot Uprising - Or, what to do when AI Does All The Jobs

Discuss those "what if" or "what would you do" scenarios you've been wondering about.

Moderator: ZS Global Moderators

User avatar
JayceSlayn
* * *
Posts: 587
Joined: Wed Mar 05, 2008 3:07 pm
Location: North Carolina

Re: Robot Uprising - Or, what to do when AI Does All The Job

Post by JayceSlayn » Fri Mar 30, 2018 3:23 pm

DarkAxel wrote:A thought stuck me the other night that make me shake a bit.

Super intelligent AI might be scary, but what about the lesser forms? If computers get as smart as a 4 year old they are still going to be put to work. The scary thought? How easy is it to fool a 4 year old? How cruel can 4 year olds be?
I think you bring up a good point: That a general AI might not start at a superintelligence level. The scenario hinges on the assumption that the general AI is somehow prevented from modifying itself to become a superintelligence within a short amount of time. The general assumption of AI researchers seems to be that any general intelligence with the ability to modify itself (which would at least be necessary to some degree in order for it to learn and adapt to new stimuli), and with access to unlimited resources would rapidly modify itself to become smarter, and result in an intelligence explosion. A less-than-superintelligent general AI could feasibly form because of a bottleneck in processing power or memory space, which might limit the ultimate speed and/or sophistication of the AI.

I think you would still be right to be fearful of a less-than-superintelligent AI, though. We could take some solace in the sense that a human 4-year-old-equivalent AI would also likely not be capable of forming devious plans more complicated than you'd expect from a young child (and thus might be somewhat easier to predict/counter). But we also think that AIs might "think" dramatically differently than humans to begin with (largely dependent on what kind of utility function it is using), and so it might think completely laterally to our trying to counter it anyway.

I guess an analogue might be putting monkeys to work. We think we can reasonably train and maintain control of lesser animals, whose brains are not made of silicon, but are nonetheless good examples of lesser-intelligent general intelligences. Ethically, it certainly still raises the same kind of questions that we will have to struggle with when computers attain the same level of competency, and something we could reasonably suspect as consciousness.
Last edited by JayceSlayn on Fri Mar 30, 2018 3:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Rahul Telang wrote:If you don’t have a plan in place, you will find different ways to screw it up
Colin Wilson wrote:There’s no point in kicking a dead horse. If the horse is up and ready and you give it a slap on the bum, it will take off. But if it’s dead, even if you slap it, it’s not going anywhere.

MPMalloy
ZS Member
ZS Member
Posts: 3279
Joined: Mon Aug 22, 2005 2:48 am

Re: Robot Uprising - Or, what to do when AI Does All The Job

Post by MPMalloy » Fri Mar 30, 2018 3:26 pm

Would I be selling out if I used an AI-controlled supercomputer to count the cards for online blackjack?

MPMalloy
ZS Member
ZS Member
Posts: 3279
Joined: Mon Aug 22, 2005 2:48 am

Re: Robot Uprising - Or, what to do when AI Does All The Job

Post by MPMalloy » Fri Mar 30, 2018 3:40 pm

JayceSlayn wrote:
DarkAxel wrote:A thought stuck me the other night that make me shake a bit.

Super intelligent AI might be scary, but what about the lesser forms? If computers get as smart as a 4 year old they are still going to be put to work. The scary thought? How easy is it to fool a 4 year old? How cruel can 4 year olds be?
I think you bring up a good point: That a general AI might not start at a superintelligence level. The scenario hinges on the assumption that the general AI is somehow prevented from modifying itself to become a superintelligence within a short amount of time. The general assumption of AI researchers seems to be that any general intelligence with the ability to modify itself (which would at least be necessary to some degree in order for it to learn and adapt to new stimuli), and with access to unlimited resources would rapidly modify itself to become smarter, and result in an intelligence explosion. A less-than-superintelligent general AI could feasibly form because of a bottleneck in processing power or memory space, which might limit the ultimate speed and/or sophistication of the AI.

I think you would still be right to be fearful of a less-than-superintelligent AI, though. We could take some solace in the sense that a human 4-year-old-equivalent AI would also likely not be capable of forming devious plans more complicated than you'd expect from a young child (and thus might be somewhat easier to predict/counter). But we also think that AIs might "think" dramatically differently than humans to begin with (largely dependent on what kind of utility function it is using), and so it might think completely laterally to our trying to counter it anyway.

I guess an analogue might be putting monkeys to work. We think we can reasonably train and maintain control of lesser animals, whose brains are not made of silicon, but are nonetheless good examples of lesser-intelligent general intelligences. Ethically, it certainly still raises the same kind of questions that we will have to struggle with when computers attain the same level of competency, and something we could reasonably suspect as consciousness.
This is good. Thanks, JS.

User avatar
flybynight
* * * * *
Posts: 2174
Joined: Sun Dec 01, 2013 12:30 am

Re: Robot Uprising - Or, what to do when AI Does All The Job

Post by flybynight » Fri Mar 30, 2018 4:53 pm

MPMalloy wrote:
JayceSlayn wrote:
DarkAxel wrote:A thought stuck me the other night that make me shake a bit.

Super intelligent AI might be scary, but what about the lesser forms? If computers get as smart as a 4 year old they are still going to be put to work. The scary thought? How easy is it to fool a 4 year old? How cruel can 4 year olds be?
I think you bring up a good point: That a general AI might not start at a superintelligence level. The scenario hinges on the assumption that the general AI is somehow prevented from modifying itself to become a superintelligence within a short amount of time. The general assumption of AI researchers seems to be that any general intelligence with the ability to modify itself (which would at least be necessary to some degree in order for it to learn and adapt to new stimuli), and with access to unlimited resources would rapidly modify itself to become smarter, and result in an intelligence explosion. A less-than-superintelligent general AI could feasibly form because of a bottleneck in processing power or memory space, which might limit the ultimate speed and/or sophistication of the AI.

I think you would still be right to be fearful of a less-than-superintelligent AI, though. We could take some solace in the sense that a human 4-year-old-equivalent AI would also likely not be capable of forming devious plans more complicated than you'd expect from a young child (and thus might be somewhat easier to predict/counter). But we also think that AIs might "think" dramatically differently than humans to begin with (largely dependent on what kind of utility function it is using), and so it might think completely laterally to our trying to counter it anyway.

I guess an analogue might be putting monkeys to work. We think we can reasonably train and maintain control of lesser animals, whose brains are not made of silicon, but are nonetheless good examples of lesser-intelligent general intelligences. Ethically, it certainly still raises the same kind of questions that we will have to struggle with when computers attain the same level of competency, and something we could reasonably suspect as consciousness.
This is good. Thanks, JS.
I think we can all agree that a AI with a four year old level of intellgence would still be a super intelligent computer compared to half the human race.

Image

Image
Image
As of now I bet you got me wrong

John Titor was right

User avatar
Asymetryczna
ZS Member
ZS Member
Posts: 1249
Joined: Thu Jun 04, 2015 3:56 pm
Favorite Zombie Movies: None

Re: Robot Uprising - Or, what to do when AI Does All The Job

Post by Asymetryczna » Tue Apr 03, 2018 8:56 am

AI and robots will destroy fewer jobs than previously feared, says new OECD report

This is good. Still, it is not hard to find that every effort is being put into making weapons smarter and this worries me more than jobs at times. Those with an interest in Science Fiction reading may worry about this more than others. The opposite could be true as well: that intelligent AI finds in pure logic that all killing is a violation of LAW no. 1 and works to shut it down. Maybe the research and development, concerns and fears is just ways for some people to consider a higher power than themselves. Even philosophers debate it: The Chinese Room Argument

A-neuroscientist-explains-why- artificially-intelligent-robots-will-never-have-consciousness-like-humans
It's not what you look at that matters, it's what you see.
Henry David Thoreau

User avatar
Stercutus
* * * * *
Posts: 12128
Joined: Wed Feb 10, 2010 8:16 pm
Location: Bouncing in to Graceland

Re: Robot Uprising - Or, what to do when AI Does All The Job

Post by Stercutus » Thu Apr 05, 2018 7:06 am

Asymetryczna wrote:AI and robots will destroy fewer jobs than previously feared, says new OECD report

This is good. Still, it is not hard to find that every effort is being put into making weapons smarter and this worries me more than jobs at times. Those with an interest in Science Fiction reading may worry about this more than others. The opposite could be true as well: that intelligent AI finds in pure logic that all killing is a violation of LAW no. 1 and works to shut it down. Maybe the research and development, concerns and fears is just ways for some people to consider a higher power than themselves. Even philosophers debate it: The Chinese Room Argument

A-neuroscientist-explains-why- artificially-intelligent-robots-will-never-have-consciousness-like-humans


Oh yeah... there are other ways of making the pool of workers smaller.




http://www.foxnews.com/tech/2018/04/05/ ... s-lab.html

Just saying "news by denial" is the best kind of news.
From this day to the ending of the world,
But we in it shall be rememberèd—
We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
Shall be my brother

MPMalloy
ZS Member
ZS Member
Posts: 3279
Joined: Mon Aug 22, 2005 2:48 am

Re: Robot Uprising - Or, what to do when AI Does All The Job

Post by MPMalloy » Thu Apr 05, 2018 11:32 am

Stercutus wrote:
Asymetryczna wrote:AI and robots will destroy fewer jobs than previously feared, says new OECD report

This is good. Still, it is not hard to find that every effort is being put into making weapons smarter and this worries me more than jobs at times. Those with an interest in Science Fiction reading may worry about this more than others. The opposite could be true as well: that intelligent AI finds in pure logic that all killing is a violation of LAW no. 1 and works to shut it down. Maybe the research and development, concerns and fears is just ways for some people to consider a higher power than themselves. Even philosophers debate it: The Chinese Room Argument

A-neuroscientist-explains-why- artificially-intelligent-robots-will-never-have-consciousness-like-humans
Oh yeah... there are other ways of making the pool of workers smaller.

http://www.foxnews.com/tech/2018/04/05/ ... s-lab.html

Just saying "news by denial" is the best kind of news.
See everyone, this is what I'm talking about. While there are voices saying "we should not do this - it is not right"; they most likely, will be drown out/ignored by those who want to see if it can be done. Lethal AI gets loose, and those of us who are left get marched off to the extermination camps.

Some of you think I'm joking. :(

User avatar
Stercutus
* * * * *
Posts: 12128
Joined: Wed Feb 10, 2010 8:16 pm
Location: Bouncing in to Graceland

Re: Robot Uprising - Or, what to do when AI Does All The Job

Post by Stercutus » Thu Apr 05, 2018 5:31 pm

Somehow this article got missed in the hubbub. Fedex brought in a bunch of robots. No job losses.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/18/tech ... obots.html
From this day to the ending of the world,
But we in it shall be rememberèd—
We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
Shall be my brother

MPMalloy
ZS Member
ZS Member
Posts: 3279
Joined: Mon Aug 22, 2005 2:48 am

Re: Robot Uprising - Or, what to do when AI Does All The Job

Post by MPMalloy » Thu Apr 05, 2018 5:38 pm

Stercutus wrote:Somehow this article got missed in the hubbub. Fedex brought in a bunch of robots. No job losses.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/18/tech ... obots.html
404 for the link.

User avatar
flybynight
* * * * *
Posts: 2174
Joined: Sun Dec 01, 2013 12:30 am

Re: Robot Uprising - Or, what to do when AI Does All The Job

Post by flybynight » Thu Apr 05, 2018 8:27 pm

MPMalloy wrote:
Stercutus wrote:
Asymetryczna wrote:AI and robots will destroy fewer jobs than previously feared, says new OECD report

This is good. Still, it is not hard to find that every effort is being put into making weapons smarter and this worries me more than jobs at times. Those with an interest in Science Fiction reading may worry about this more than others. The opposite could be true as well: that intelligent AI finds in pure logic that all killing is a violation of LAW no. 1 and works to shut it down. Maybe the research and development, concerns and fears is just ways for some people to consider a higher power than themselves. Even philosophers debate it: The Chinese Room Argument

A-neuroscientist-explains-why- artificially-intelligent-robots-will-never-have-consciousness-like-humans
Oh yeah... there are other ways of making the pool of workers smaller.

http://www.foxnews.com/tech/2018/04/05/ ... s-lab.html

Just saying "news by denial" is the best kind of news.
See everyone, this is what I'm talking about. While there are voices saying "we should not do this - it is not right"; they most likely, will be drown out/ignored by those who want to see if it can be done. Lethal AI gets loose, and those of us who are left get marched off to the extermination camps.

Some of you think I'm joking. :(
Don't be so pessimistic. The robot overlords probably won't march you to the extermination camps. That would be wasteful. You'll more than likely end up with a implanted circuit that forces you to dance for their amusement until your body gives out. :clownshoes:
As of now I bet you got me wrong

John Titor was right

User avatar
Stercutus
* * * * *
Posts: 12128
Joined: Wed Feb 10, 2010 8:16 pm
Location: Bouncing in to Graceland

Re: Robot Uprising - Or, what to do when AI Does All The Job

Post by Stercutus » Thu Apr 05, 2018 9:20 pm

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/18/tech ... obots.html

weird, trying again

(maybe there is something 'they' dont want 'us' to know?)
From this day to the ending of the world,
But we in it shall be rememberèd—
We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
Shall be my brother

User avatar
Asymetryczna
ZS Member
ZS Member
Posts: 1249
Joined: Thu Jun 04, 2015 3:56 pm
Favorite Zombie Movies: None

Re: Robot Uprising - Or, what to do when AI Does All The Job

Post by Asymetryczna » Fri Apr 06, 2018 11:52 am

"If AI has a goal and humanity just happens to be in the way, it will destroy humanity as a matter of course without even thinking about it. No hard feelings," Musk said.

"It's just like, if we're building a road and an anthill just happens to be in the way, we don't hate ants, we're just building a road, and so, goodbye anthill."
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/04/06/elon-mu ... ntary.html
It's not what you look at that matters, it's what you see.
Henry David Thoreau

User avatar
Asymetryczna
ZS Member
ZS Member
Posts: 1249
Joined: Thu Jun 04, 2015 3:56 pm
Favorite Zombie Movies: None

Re: Robot Uprising - Or, what to do when AI Does All The Job

Post by Asymetryczna » Fri Apr 06, 2018 11:53 am

It's not what you look at that matters, it's what you see.
Henry David Thoreau

MPMalloy
ZS Member
ZS Member
Posts: 3279
Joined: Mon Aug 22, 2005 2:48 am

Re: Robot Uprising - Or, what to do when AI Does All The Job

Post by MPMalloy » Mon Apr 09, 2018 5:14 pm

From the Mises Institute:
WHAT MAKES AI DANGEROUS? THE STATE

6 HOURS AGO Per Bylund

So I watched "Do you trust this computer?", a film that "explores the promises and perils" of artificial intelligence. While it notes both the good and the bad, it has an obvious focus on how AI might bring about "the end of the world as we know it" (TEOTWAWKI.) That is, if it is left unregulated.

It's strange, however, that the examples of TEOTWAWKI AI were "autonomous weapons" and "fake news," the latter because of how it can provide a path for a minority-supported dictator to "take over." While I understand (and fear) both, the examples have one thing in common - but it is not AI.

That one thing is the State. Only States' militaries and groups looking to take over a State have any interest in "killer robots." They're also developed by/for those groups. The fake news and "undue influence" issue is also about the power over the State. Neither weapons nor fake news require AI. Yet, in some strange twist, the film makers make it an AI problem. Worse: they end the film indicating that the main problem is that AI is "unregulated."

But this is completely illogical: with the State as the problem's common denominator *and* the solution?

Instead, we're led to believe that it is problematic that Google tracks our web searches and Facebook knows our friends and beliefs ("because autonomous weapons"?). While I agree that it is ugly, neither company is making a claim over life and death. In fact, they operate under the harshest regulation there is: the market. Because they are making investments to make money, and money can only be made in one of two ways: through offering something that people want and are willing to pay for (Oppenheimer's "economic" means), or through simply taking it from people against their will ("political" means). Companies operate according to the former, which means they are subject to the mercy of consumers. The State operate according to the latter.

No, I'm not saying the ability to play on people's emotions, deceive them through "fake" information, etc is unproblematic. I'm saying the film completely misses the elephant in the room - and suggests it is the solution.

The logic is based on wishful thinking, if not ideology; a refusal to see what's obviously there. The solution is simply not a solution: if the State would "regulate" how Google and FB use AI to sift through the data and feed people what they want to hear, what makes anyone think this applies also to the DOD or NSA and their data, which are *not* collected from consumers voluntarily but in secret. And the latter are much more likely to work on autonomous weapons. The film even states this is the case, yet seems to skip over that problem.

To illustrate the difference between Oppenheimer's economic and political means, consider two recent trust crises. The Cambridge Analytical debacle caused Facebook to immediately change their business as the owners lost billions when the company's value plummeted. That value is based on people's willingness to use the web site and its apps, to continue sharing content. The #DeleteFacebook hashtag harmed the owners. Then compare with what was revealed by Snowden: that the State spies on everyone. The data are collected in part from companies that are both forced to comply with requests and legally obligated not to say anything about it. Yes, the leak stirred up a lot of emotion, but what happened to the "deep state" surveillance? Probably nothing. Except maybe some new routines and, probably more money to control leaks.

Which is more problematic, the "economic" means that are subject to consumers' trust (and, really, whim), or the "political" means not subject to insight, oversight, or at all accountable because it is secret and because we pay for it whether or not we wish?

Add to this how the latter is interested in and aims for both autonomous weapons and to keep/claim the power of the State. It's pretty obvious that neither is a utopian perfect solution, but one clearly has a built-in control mechanism because it is based on value, the other does not - and is even based on being done in complete secrecy and at our expense (involuntarily). Yet the latter is somehow in the film treated as the ("only"?) solution. That perhaps makes for a good play on people's confirmation bias, because we've learned in school and want to believe that the State "is us." Fine, but that's not us spying on us and producing autonomous weapons. In fact, it would be hard to believe a political decision to "stop developing" such weapons. Who really believes they wouldn't continue despite saying the very opposite?

The fact is, there is no downside to simply lying and pretending. Whereas, if severe, companies can be wiped out overnight if people don't trust them - their value is gone. So the logic in the film simply doesn't work; it doesn't make sense. One cannot help thinking, if this is the state of human intelligence, our ability to logically draw conclusions from the data available to us, then making machines that think on "our level" can't be all that difficult. And it cannot be hard for machines to recognize real patterns and draw conclusions that follow.

But perhaps I shouldn't be surprised that the film makers misunderstand economics on a fundamental level: they point to automation as a huge problem - because it creates more value for us at lesser cost. We'll be relieved of jobs. Oh no. Think about that this Monday morning.

Here's the link for whoever is interested. It was free through yesterday, it seems. Today it's $3.99 to watch.

Taken from @PerBylund on Twitter.

User avatar
Asymetryczna
ZS Member
ZS Member
Posts: 1249
Joined: Thu Jun 04, 2015 3:56 pm
Favorite Zombie Movies: None

Re: Robot Uprising - Or, what to do when AI Does All The Job

Post by Asymetryczna » Tue Apr 10, 2018 6:47 am

As much as I would enjoy it, I find that I cannot discuss "the state" in any manner without nudging the "politics" trip wire and thus sound the alarm.
It's not what you look at that matters, it's what you see.
Henry David Thoreau

MPMalloy
ZS Member
ZS Member
Posts: 3279
Joined: Mon Aug 22, 2005 2:48 am

Re: Robot Uprising - Or, what to do when AI Does All The Job

Post by MPMalloy » Tue Apr 10, 2018 6:53 am

Asymetryczna wrote:As much as I would enjoy it, I find that I cannot discuss "the state" in any manner without nudging the "politics" trip wire and thus sound the alarm.
Yeah, my post was closer than I care to come but I felt it was kinda of important. The Mises Institute is exactly "ZS safe".

User avatar
Asymetryczna
ZS Member
ZS Member
Posts: 1249
Joined: Thu Jun 04, 2015 3:56 pm
Favorite Zombie Movies: None

Re: Robot Uprising - Or, what to do when AI Does All The Job

Post by Asymetryczna » Wed Apr 11, 2018 7:33 am

I have been so busy watching what may be coming that I have started missing what is already here.

They Are Here and Already Co-mingling!
It's not what you look at that matters, it's what you see.
Henry David Thoreau

User avatar
flybynight
* * * * *
Posts: 2174
Joined: Sun Dec 01, 2013 12:30 am

Re: Robot Uprising - Or, what to do when AI Does All The Job

Post by flybynight » Wed Apr 11, 2018 8:22 am

But perhaps I shouldn't be surprised that the film makers misunderstand economics on a fundamental level: they point to automation as a huge problem - because it creates more value for us at lesser cost. We'll be relieved of jobs. Oh no. Think about that this Monday morning.
Before or after you've lost your job and are poor, hungry and about to be homeless?

I'm trying to follow his logic that it's the state who is using the AI to further their interests and not the self aware entity that will be super intelligent machine who may not have our best interests ( state and civilian ) to fear . Because historically , state has done such an admiral job of controlling aberrant behavior in the population at large?
As of now I bet you got me wrong

John Titor was right

MPMalloy
ZS Member
ZS Member
Posts: 3279
Joined: Mon Aug 22, 2005 2:48 am

Re: Robot Uprising - Or, what to do when AI Does All The Job

Post by MPMalloy » Wed Apr 11, 2018 8:58 am

flybynight wrote:
But perhaps I shouldn't be surprised that the film makers misunderstand economics on a fundamental level: they point to automation as a huge problem - because it creates more value for us at lesser cost. We'll be relieved of jobs. Oh no. Think about that this Monday morning.
Before or after you've lost your job and are poor, hungry and about to be homeless?

I'm trying to follow his logic that it's the state who is using the AI to further their interests and not the self aware entity that will be super intelligent machine who may not have our best interests ( state and civilian ) to fear . Because historically , state has done such an admiral job of controlling aberrant behavior in the population at large?
Dang Skippy!


MPMalloy
ZS Member
ZS Member
Posts: 3279
Joined: Mon Aug 22, 2005 2:48 am

Re: Robot Uprising - Or, what to do when AI Does All The Job

Post by MPMalloy » Sat Apr 21, 2018 12:43 pm

From NPR: Betting On Artificial Intelligence To Guide Earthquake Response
A startup company in California is using machine learning and artificial intelligence to advise fire departments about how to plan for earthquakes and respond to them.

The company, One Concern, hopes its algorithms can take a lot of the guesswork out of the planning process for disaster response by making accurate predictions about earthquake damage. It's one of a handful of companies rolling out artificial intelligence and machine learning systems that could help predict and respond to floods, cyber-attacks and other large-scale disasters.

Nicole Hu, One Concern's chief technology officer, says the key is to feed the computers three main categories of data.

The first is data about homes and other buildings, such as what materials they're made of, when they were built and how likely they are to collapse when the ground starts shaking.

The next category is data about the natural environment. For example, "What is the soil like? What is the elevation like? What is the general humidity like?" explains Hu.

"The third thing we look at is live instant data," she says, such as the magnitude of the quake, the traffic in the area of the quake and the weather at the time of the quake.

The computer uses the information to make predictions about what would happen if an earthquake occurred in a particular area. It then uses data from past earthquakes to see whether its predictions are any good, and revises its predictive models accordingly.

In other words, it learns as it goes, which is basically how machine learning works.

Stanford University earthquake engineer Gregory Deierlein consulted for One Concern. He says one of the most remarkable things about the company's software is its ability to incorporate data from an earthquake as it's happening, and to adjust its predictions in real time.

"Those sort of things used to be research projects,"says Deierlein. "After an event, we would collect data and a few years later we'd produce new models."

Now the new models appear in a matter of minutes.

He notes the company's exact methods are opaque. "Like many startup companies they're not fully transparent in everything they're doing," he says. "I mean, that's their proprietary knowledge that they're bringing to it."

Nonetheless, some first responders are already convinced the software will be useful.

Fire chief Dan Ghiorso leads the Woodside Fire Protection District near San Francisco, which covers about 32 square miles. The San Andreas fault is only a couple hundred feet behind the firehouse.

Ghiorso says in the past, when an earthquake hit, he'd have to make educated guesses about what parts of his district might have suffered the most damage, and then drive to each place to make a visual inspection. He hopes One Concern's software will change that, although he has yet to put it to the test during an actual quake.

"Instead of driving thirty-two square miles, in fifteen minutes on a computer I can get a good idea of the concerns," he says. "Instead of me, taking my educated guess, they're putting science behind it, so I'm very confident."

Unfortunately, it's going to take a natural disaster to see if his confidence is justified.

User avatar
ZombieGranny
* * * * *
Posts: 7392
Joined: Sat Sep 08, 2007 2:53 pm
Favorite Zombie Movies: eh - heck with it, I'm not leaving - I like it here, and the regular folks like me being here.
Location: PNW

Re: Robot Uprising - Or, what to do when AI Does All The Job

Post by ZombieGranny » Sat Apr 21, 2018 1:02 pm

Frankly, that sounds like what they used to decide what to charge us for flood insurance.
In an area that has never flooded, we pay more per month than those in New Orleans that actually have flooded pay per YEAR .

edited to fix typo
Last edited by ZombieGranny on Sun Apr 22, 2018 1:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
In my day, we didn't have virtual reality.
If a one-eyed razorback barbarian warrior was chasing you with an ax, you just had to hope you could outrun him.
-
Preps buy us time. Time to learn how and time to remember how. Time to figure out what is a want, what is a need.

MPMalloy
ZS Member
ZS Member
Posts: 3279
Joined: Mon Aug 22, 2005 2:48 am

Re: Robot Uprising - Or, what to do when AI Does All The Job

Post by MPMalloy » Sun Apr 22, 2018 12:39 am

From CNBC: Why tech companies are racing each other to make their own custom A.I. chips
Earlier this week Alibaba said will make its own chip available for access through its cloud.

Google has developed chips for AI, and Facebook has a nascent chip effort.

By Jordan Novet | @jordannovet

CNBC.com

Chinese retailer and cloud infrastructure provider Alibaba is the latest company to think up its own design for processors that can run artificial intelligence software. It joins a crowded roster of companies already working on similar custom designs, including Alphabet, Facebook and Apple.

The trend could eventually threaten the traditional relationship between big buyers and big suppliers. In particular, chipmaker Nvidia, whose stock has surged as its graphics processing chips have become common for powering AI-based applications, could find its data center business impacted as these roll-your-own-chip projects mature.

The companies are betting that their own chips can help their AI applications run better while lowering costs, as running hundreds of thousands of computers in a data center isn't cheap. It could also reduce their dependency on the few vendors (like Nvidia) who make the types of graphics processors that excel at performing the functions modern AI applications require.

Nvidia still strong
On Thursday, Alibaba said that its recently formed research and development arm -- dubbed the Academy for Discovery, Adventure, Momentum and Outlook -- has been working on an AI chip called the Ali-NPU and that the chips will become available for anyone to use through its public cloud, a spokesman told CNBC.

The idea is to strengthen the Alibaba cloud and enable the future of commerce and a variety of AI applications within many industries, the spokesman said. In the fourth quarter Alibaba held 4 percent of the cloud infrastructure services market, meaning that it was smaller than Amazon, Microsoft, IBM and Google, according to Synergy Research Group.

Alibaba's research academy has been opening offices around the world, including in Bellevue, Washington, near Microsoft headquarters. Last year Alibaba hired Qualcomm employee Liang Han as an "AI chip architect" in the Silicon Valley city of Sunnyvale. Job listings show that Alibaba is looking to add more people to the effort at that location.

The activity bears a resemblance to Google-parent Alphabet's efforts.

Internally Alphabet engineers have been using Google's custom-built tensor processing unit, or TPUs, to accelerate their own machine learning tasks, since 2015. Last year Google announced a second-generation TPU that could handle more challenging computing work, and in February Google started letting the public use second-generation TPUs through its cloud.

The second generation of the Google AI chip can be used in the place of graphics processing units from the likes of Nvidia, which can do more than just train AI models.

The Alibaba and Google server chip programs are still in relative infancy, at least compared to Nvidia's GPU business in data centers.

Indeed, Google and Nvidia remain partners, and Nvidia's GPUs remain available on the Google cloud alongside the TPUs. Alibaba also offers Nvidia GPUs through its cloud and will continue to do after the Ali-NPU comes out, the spokesman said.

In a note last July, analysts Matthew Ramsay and Vinod Srinivasaraghavan with Canaccord Genuity said that with the release of Nvidia's latest GPUs, they have "increased confidence Nvidia will ... more successfully defend pricing as data center sales scale and in-house and merchant ASIC [application-specific integrated circuit] offerings increase."

You've got a chip, I've got a chip, everybody's got a chip
Earlier this week it became clear that Facebook is also exploring chip development. That initiative could one day lead the company to develop AI chips. That wasn't a complete surprise, though, as last year Intel said that it was working with Facebook on a new chip it had built for AI. But Intel hasn't been involved in Google's TPU, or Alibaba's Ali-NPU.

Facebook's AI chip could improve operations for internal researchers -- training systems faster could mean more rapid experimentation -- and boost the efficiency of systems doing calculations for the billions of people who use the company's apps. The company's push is different from Alibaba and Google in the sense that it's not primarily about giving customers an innovative type of hardware that could bring performance gains.

Meanwhile, Apple has built a "neural engine" element into the chips inside the top-of-the-line iPhone X phone; Microsoft is working on an AI chip for the next version of its HoloLens mixed-reality headset; and Tesla has been developing an AI chip for its vehicles.

But all those devices are different from the servers that would house AI chips from the likes of Google and Alibaba. Data center servers would have more power, direct network connectivity and more data storage on board.

MPMalloy
ZS Member
ZS Member
Posts: 3279
Joined: Mon Aug 22, 2005 2:48 am

Re: Robot Uprising - Or, what to do when AI Does All The Job

Post by MPMalloy » Mon Apr 23, 2018 10:51 pm

From NPR: Autonomous Weapons Would Take Warfare To A New Domain, Without Humans

This article contains two audio clips that are central to the story. I don't know how to embed (?) them into this post, so I didn't C&P the article.

This is a real good story, IMO. I urge everyone to nav to the webpage. Read, listen, & think.

Thank you.

ps. death to robots! :twisted:

Post Reply

Return to “What Would You Do?”