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PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 8:57 pm 
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JayceSlayn wrote:
Video from AI researchers to warn against the creation of "Slaughterbots".


Unfortunately, as I said before, I don't think the technologies and skills required to create "Slaughterbots" would be even as difficult to acquire or tightly controllable as say nuclear weapon construction or chemical weapon production, thus meaning that potentially a lot of countries or militant organizations could probably one day achieve them. In those kinds of scenarios, a global ban on the usage of those technologies can sufficiently discourage large governments (also perhaps provided that they have a rival with parity capabilities - MAD-esque), but there will always be some group who is willing to use them anyway. At the point that there is not a technological or resource barrier to their use, only a policy barrier, you are standing on the edge of a very dangerous precipice all the time.

This is the best post in the thread so far, IMO.

Thank you.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 9:07 pm 
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From CNBC: AI will obliterate half of all jobs, starting with white collar, says ex-Google China president
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AI will obliterate half of all jobs, starting with white collar, says ex-Google China president

Everyone needs to rethink the practical and social impact of fewer jobs in the future, Kai-Fu Lee says.

The chairman and CEO of Sinovation Ventures believes about half of all jobs will disappear over the next decade.

Matthew J. Belvedere | @Matt_Belvedere CNBC.com

The upcoming worldwide workforce reckoning that artificial intelligence is expected to bring will happen much sooner than many experts predict, the former president of Google China told CNBC on Monday.

Kai-Fu Lee, now chairman and CEO of Sinovation Ventures, believes that about half of all jobs will disappear over the next decade and be replaced with AI and the next generation of robots in the fastest period of disruption in history.

"AI, at the same time, will be a replacement for blue collar and white collar jobs," said Lee, a renowned Chinese technologist and investor who held positions at Apple and Microsoft in addition to Alphabet's Google. But white collar jobs will go first, he warned.

"The white collar jobs are easier to take because they're pure a quantitative analytical process. Reporters, traders, telemarketing, telesales, customer service, [and] analysts, there can all be replaced by a software," he explained on "Squawk Box." "To do blue collar, some of work requires hand-eye coordination, things that machines are not yet good enough to do."

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"The white collar jobs are easier to take because they're pure a quantitative analytical process"

-Kai-Fu Lee, Chairman and CEO of Sinovation Ventures

Lee knocked down an argument that the jobs lost will create new ones to service and program AI and robots. "Robots are clearly replacing people jobs. They're working 24 by 7. They are more efficient. They need some programming. But one programer can program 10,000 robots."

Besides taking jobs beyond factory floors, robots and AI are already starting to takeover some of the mundane tasks around people's homes. Lee pointed to the Amazon Echo as an example.

"The robots don't have to be anthropomorphized. They can just be an appliance," he said. "The car that has autonomous driving is not going to have a humanoid person [driving]. It's just going to be without a steering wheel."

Lee said that while economic growth "will go dramatically up because AI can do so many things so much more faster" than humans, it'll force everyone to rethink the practical and social impact of fewer jobs. "If a lot of people will find happiness without working, that would be a happy outcome."

But in a Washington Post op-ed last month, Lee argued against universal basic income, the idea of governments providing a steady stipend to help each citizen make ends meet regardless of need, employment status, or skill level. UBI is being bandied about as a possible solution to an economy that won't have nearly enough jobs for working-age adults.

"The optimists naively assume that UBI will be a catalyst for people to reinvent themselves professionally," he wrote. It may work among Silicon Valley and other highly motivated entrepreneurs, he added, "but this most surely will not happen for the masses of displaced workers with obsolete skills, living in regions where job loss is exacerbated by traditional economic downturn."

Lee sees a different plan of action. "Instead of just redistributing cash and hoping for the best … we need to retrain and adapt so that everyone can find a suitable profession."

Some of the solutions he offered in his commentary include developing more jobs that require social skills such as social workers, therapists, teachers, and life coaches as well as encouraging people to volunteer and considering paying them.

Lee wrote, "We need to redefine the idea of work ethic for the new workforce paradigm. The importance of a job should not be solely dependent on its economic value but should also be measured by what it adds to society."

"We should also reassess our notion that longer work hours are the best way to achieve success," he concluded.

Matthew J. Belvedere News Editor

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 12:30 pm 
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I'm surprised no one has posted this yet-

3:08 - 3:55 is on topic


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 6:14 pm 
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From CNBC: An A.I. designed to guide humans through the end of life is already among us
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An A.I. designed to guide humans through the end of life is already among us

A clinical study aims to find out if artificial intelligence is better suited to talk death with patients than doctors.

Specially designed chatbots are being used in palliative care to see if patients might be more inclined to share their symptoms or ask questions when no other human is present.

By Andrew Zaleski | @ajzaleski Published 8 Hours Ago CNBC.com


Chatbots are used for a variety of tasks: ordering pizza, getting product suggestions via Facebook Messenger and receiving online customer support. But can they cope with death?

A three-year clinical study with financial backing of more than $1 million from the National Institutes of Health is exploring whether a chatbot can help terminally ill, geriatric patients with their end-of-life care.

Over the next three years, Northeastern University professor Timothy Bickmore and Boston Medical Center doctor Michael Paasche-Orlow will distribute Microsoft Surface tablets preloaded with a chatbot to about 360 patients who have been told they have less than a year to live.

Designed in consultation with experts from Boston Medical Center and programmed by Bickmore and other Northeastern University researchers, the chatbot — which takes the form of a middle-age female digital character — is preloaded with a number of capabilities. These include clinical ones — such as gauging a patient's level of pain and keeping tabs on whether medication is being taken — as well as ones to improve a patient's quality of life. There are modules for talking about stress management and promoting exercise, a social chat feature if patients are just looking for someone to talk to, and even a module for spiritual counseling.

What Bickmore and Paasche-Orlow expect is that geriatric patients going through palliative care near the end of their lives will get use out of a tablet-based chatbot, and that having such a service available to hospitals and clinics will be valuable to patients long before they're in hospice care.

"Primary-care physicians don't think to call in palliative-care services until patients are incurable, when in fact the patient might have been in pain or could've used some kind of intervention beforehand," said Bickmore, associate dean for research in Northeastern University's College of Computer and Information Science.

Today about 90 million Americans live with a serious illness, according to the Center to Advance Palliative Care. This number is expected to double over the next 25 years as the baby boomer generation ages.

Quote:
"It turns out that patients were very happy to talk with a computer about it. They were very explicit in telling us, 'The doctor never asked me about these things.'"

-Michael Paasche-Orlow, Boston Medical Center doctor

The interactions patients are having with these chatbots are monitored continuously by nurses, who can activate care if a patient tells the chatbot they're experiencing symptoms. The nurses will also alert a family member if patients are telling the chatbot they're thinking about making end-of-life decisions, like completing a last will and testament.

"If a patient rates their nausea or pain a little higher, we ask them if they've taken medicine for that and then try to figure out and troubleshoot that experience," Paasche-Orlow said. "With a lot of these types of things, humans just forget to follow up on them, so there's a lot of lost opportunities to support people in different ways."

For a decade Bickmore and Paasche-Orlow have collaborated on health IT projects that make use of conversational artificial intelligence, or what Bickmore calls relational agents: computer agents designed to simulate face-to-face conversations with other people, as well as pick up on gesticulations, facial expressions and body posture.

Their latest endeavor began with a call for technologies that could potentially assist older patients in the last stages of a terminal illness. These would be issued by a number of high-level institutes, such as the NIH, National Institute of Nursing Research, National Cancer Institute and the National Institute on Aging.

In the medical world, conversational artificial intelligence elicits a mixed response. It's a potentially transformative technology, and something against which doctors and patients should guard themselves. Research around chatbots being used for mental health patients published in 2016 in the Journal of the American Medical Association demonstrated that some patients are more likely to display true emotions when they think they're talking to a computer, an insight that could lead to further deployment of conversational agents as a means to automate and lower the costs of clinical treatments.

But there are risks of "ineffective care and patient harm," as the JAMA research said. In particular, researchers singled out digital voice assistants of the kinds created by large tech companies, like Apple, Google, Microsoft and Samsung. Certainly, those voice assistants are not intended to act as de facto doctors, but the JAMA research found that when people asked their digital voice assistants questions related to their mental health, responses were "inconsistent and sometimes inappropriate."

"There's a growing number of chatbots or characters out there that pretend to be a health oracle," Bickmore said. "That's a real setup for safety issues for patients."

Users of the tablet-based chatbot in the palliative-care study are prevented from giving open-ended responses. Whenever it's a patient's turn to say something to the chatbot, they're given prompts on the screen, multiple-choice style.

"We know exactly what their intent is, and they can't go off topic or talk about something we hadn't considered," Bickmore said.

The palliative care chatbot in use at Northeastern University and Boston Medical Center only allows patients to use multiple choice responses to keep communication focused, and keep it from going off topic.
Now in year two of a five-year project that began in 2016, the chatbot project has received $1.3 million, with more funding contingent on the success of the clinical trial that began this year.

An emotional support for seniors

"We are becoming an increasingly technology-dependent country, and so are our aging seniors," said Dr. Jeri Miller, chief of the Office of End-of-Life and Palliative Care Research within the National Institute of Nursing Research. "[Bickmore and Paasche-Orlow] have developed this innovative platform that has a way to help individuals who have serious advanced illnesses think through important factors early: What kind of care do I want? How am I managing my medications? What are my spiritual goals and values?"

The focus on spiritual goals and values was the key component of an initial lab study conducted by Bickmore and Paasche-Orlow at Northeastern University. They tested the chatbot with 44 people age 55 and older, specifically around topics related to preparation for death and spiritual counseling. What they found was that after speaking to the chatbot in a 30-minute conversation, most participants had a significant decrease in anxiety around thinking about death, even those who identified as atheist or not overly religious.

"It turns out that patients were very happy to talk with a computer about it. They were very explicit in telling us, 'The doctor never asked me about these things,'" Paasche-Orlow said.

In a clinical setting, patients are sometimes afraid to ask explicit questions of a doctor because they worry doctors don't have the time for them. Instead, Paasche-Orlow said, they tend to drop hints and clues they want to talk about certain things — like chatting with a hospital chaplain, for example — and wait for the health-care provider to pick up on them.

"In a hospital, frequently the patient is there all day and the doctor comes in at some point during the morning on rounds, and sometimes with a whole group of people. It's not conducive for patients to feel comfortable to ask questions, especially with something where they don't know how long it'll take or how their question will be received," Paasche-Orlow said.

With a chatbot the stakes are lower — patients might be more inclined to share their symptoms or ask questions they might not ask a doctor. By cataloging and keeping track of those responses, the chatbot in turn makes it easier for doctors, nurses and family caregivers to better coordinate their responses, ensuring the right health care is delivered at the right time.

The three-year clinical trial currently under way will bear out if this theory is correct.

"We had not designed a conversational agent for patients with advanced needs for palliative care until this project," Paasche-Orlow said. "But we thought this might be an interesting place where health care can be supported."

— By Andrew Zaleski, special to CNBC.com

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 9:29 am 
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From Bloomberg: Robots Are Coming for These Wall Street Jobs
There are charts & graphs central to the article, which is why I did not cut & paste it.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 1:39 pm 
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That was an interesting video Jayce. Thanks. The analogy of the frog in boiling water, I'm thinking, is the same as my indication of already being surrounded and accepting with the Alexas and Siris 'living' right next to us.
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I don't think the technologies and skills required to create "Slaughterbots" would be even as difficult to acquire or tightly controllable as say nuclear weapon construction or chemical weapon production, thus meaning that potentially a lot of countries or militant organizations could probably one day achieve them.

Agreed, and No "probably" about it. Nothing makes the big bucks like defense/weapon systems and how easy would it be to cast blame on mechanical failure so as to limit attribution?
We’re Losing The Chance to Regulate Killer Robots
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In those kinds of scenarios, a global ban on the usage of those technologies can sufficiently discourage large governments (also perhaps provided that they have a rival with parity capabilities - MAD-esque), but there will always be some group who is willing to use them anyway. At the point that there is not a technological or resource barrier to their use, only a policy barrier, you are standing on the edge of a very dangerous precipice all the time.

It might discourage many governments but the more powerful may be those to most fear if you are familiar with the Melian Dialogue ~ conform by compel. (Thucydides wrote the book on international relations). In my thinking the biggest threat is the entity that has them first, and creates the tech/resource and legal (policy) barriers that prevents others from creating them... while justifying their use. [an offset]
WHO is Competing for the AI Startups?

Ever see the movie "The Day the Earth Stood Still?" Not the one with KeenO Reevis, the original (1951). I saw it probably for the first time in middle school and remember thinking, "what a concept." Klaatu arrives on Earth during the Cold War with his robot Gort, which was created in their galaxy to police their system and stop (destroy) anyone that used violence, the idea being that other systems could see that the earth was on a one-way trip to an atomic breakdown. It was an Earthy idea for me to consider, with the idea that "greater minds out there" could arrive at a better solution for all of us down here. Years later I determined that I cannot know the mind of God but I can know the mind of men and it is often driven by power and greed, or, sometimes referred to as national security issues. Imagine a large robot that could detect if you were carrying a weapon and thus potentially violent. Who decides what the rules are? Who programs the AI? What happens if AI learns that all humans are potentially violent?

Klaatu barada nikto? Indeed.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 6:52 am 
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Tax Exemption!

https://pjmedia.com/faith/ex-google-exe ... -with-irs/

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 8:32 pm 
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Many of your are probably already familiar with Atlas, the well-known bipedal robot from Boston Dynamics (same company that also makes 4-legged "dogs", and just released a new version called SpotMini). You might also know of Atlas' long history of development: starting from awkward stumbling and falling, to somewhat competent walking and running. Well, now it is apparently halfway to parkour, and almost certainly more acrobatic than a good deal of humans I've seen. Amazing technical progress, viewed through one lens, and something approaching T-800 behavior, viewed through another. :shock:

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 10:28 pm 
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That is seriously scary.

What sort of small arms does everyone think would stop it? I'm pretty sure it's not armored (yet). I need it's weak points. I'm not finding anything so far. :twisted:

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2017 6:40 am 
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Recent article about some of the creations of BD.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/ ... FLIPS.html

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2017 6:52 am 
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It relies on power sources known to man, the creator. This is one of the concerns with super AI getting into the loop in the vicinity of design and production. I have seen a few different robots at demonstrations and you can follow BD on the internet...there are plenty of videos. It helps raise awareness, and acceptance.

I have had the same discussion with friends that are missing arms and/or legs and they are enthusiastic about the improvements being made upon robotics and cellular growth/modification. This is added to once again point out that there will be an unknown but probably unlimited number of benefits to society. The growth from neural networks intended to classify things to human or animal-looking robots programmed to perform tasks better or faster than humans is happening a bit faster than I would have thought though.

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even robots go splat on their ugly faces :mrgreen:

(go to end of video)


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So, all of this, at least in my mind, begs these questions: Is it a super AI mind that is to be feared or man? Would advanced AI want to take over more jobs or is it the man that pushes for their advance? Do we fear fighting robots or the people that would create them to destroy other men? The greatest threat to humanity might just be looking back at us every time we glance at a mirror.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2017 2:20 pm 
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Asymetryczna wrote:
So, all of this, at least in my mind, begs these questions: Is it a super AI mind that is to be feared or man? Would advanced AI want to take over more jobs or is it the man that pushes for their advance? Do we fear fighting robots or the people that would create them to destroy other men? The greatest threat to humanity might just be looking back at us every time we glance at a mirror.


We are our own worst enemies and better tools allow us to kill more quickly.

Meanwhile, Robots fall off stages too at 4:12


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2017 2:34 pm 
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Asymetryczna wrote:
So, all of this, at least in my mind, begs these questions: Is it a super AI mind that is to be feared or man? Would advanced AI want to take over more jobs or is it the man that pushes for their advance? Do we fear fighting robots or the people that would create them to destroy other men? The greatest threat to humanity might just be looking back at us every time we glance at a mirror.
Very. Good. Point.

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Frankly, for me, it's the people behind them.
For too many people it's "me, me, me and the hell with anyone/everyone else".

To make the world go 'round, you must let the other guy have something too.

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teotwaki wrote:
Asymetryczna wrote:
So, all of this, at least in my mind, begs these questions: Is it a super AI mind that is to be feared or man? Would advanced AI want to take over more jobs or is it the man that pushes for their advance? Do we fear fighting robots or the people that would create them to destroy other men? The greatest threat to humanity might just be looking back at us every time we glance at a mirror.


We are our own worst enemies and better tools allow us to kill more quickly.

Meanwhile, Robots fall off stages too at 4:12


:mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

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Never in history of mankind has a lesser civilization come out ahead or in most cases survived contact with a technologically superior civilization. This won't change just because it's a robot. All the talk in the world about creating AI friendly towards it's human creators overlooks the fact that it still will be able to choose . Look at it this way. You can't legislate human behavior. There is punishment for certain acts committed but the person committing those acts still makes that decision whether to do it. A robot will have those same choices, without the stigma of it being murder.

We are on the brink of the precipice and there is no turning back. One has to wonder if the reason we don't see signs of life elsewhere in the galaxy because they also reached that point of AI machines . And were overcome.

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flybynight wrote:
One has to wonder if the reason we don't see signs of life elsewhere in the galaxy because they also reached that point of AI machines . And were overcome.


Mind. Blown.

Or should I say... Circuits. Fried.

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I wonder if the vanquished alien races had YouTube? We could see what mistakes they made.




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PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 11:21 am 
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Good-bye Humans!

http://www.sfgate.com/news/article/UC-B ... 368152.php

Watch the video, chilling!

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NamelessStain wrote:
Good-bye Humans!

http://www.sfgate.com/news/article/UC-B ... 368152.php

Watch the video, chilling!



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PostPosted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 5:09 am 
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teotwaki wrote:
NamelessStain wrote:
Good-bye Humans!

http://www.sfgate.com/news/article/UC-B ... 368152.php

Watch the video, chilling!



I thought of that years ago, but I envisioned it as more of a land mine/area denial tool. Think of a beehive filled with those drones.

Not a good potential development, but I can't see how "banning" it would stop non-state actors from developing the technology. Rouge states for that matter either.
I think the only realistic thing to do is to start working on countermeasures now rather than after the fact.
If you want to get all sci-fi about it, how about a small personal swarm of those things programed for point defense, sort of little autonomous kamikazes dedicated to keeping their owner alive. Miniature interceptors.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 5:38 am 
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LowKey wrote:
I thought of that years ago, but I envisioned it as more of a land mine/area denial tool. Think of a beehive filled with those drones.

Not a good potential development, but I can't see how "banning" it would stop non-state actors from developing the technology. Rouge states for that matter either.
I think the only realistic thing to do is to start working on countermeasures now rather than after the fact.
If you want to get all sci-fi about it, how about a small personal swarm of those things programed for point defense, sort of little autonomous kamikazes dedicated to keeping their owner alive. Miniature interceptors.

Agreed. Once tech is out of the bag, it does not go back in.

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