Robot Uprising - Or, what to do when AI Does All The Jobs

Discuss those "what if" or "what would you do" scenarios you've been wondering about.

Moderator: ZS Global Moderators

User avatar
ZombieGranny
* * * * *
Posts: 8434
Joined: Sat Sep 08, 2007 2:53 pm
Favorite Zombie Movies: eh - heck with it, I'm not leaving - I like it here, and the regular folks like me being here.
Location: PNW

Re: Robot Uprising - Or, what to do when AI Does All The Job

Post by ZombieGranny » Mon Oct 30, 2017 11:44 am

Hiroshima_Morphine wrote: Do I still have a plate of cookies waiting for me?
Fresh, tender sugar cookies in pumpkin and big yellow moon shapes.
In my day, we didn't have virtual reality.
If a one-eyed razorback barbarian warrior was chasing you with an ax, you just had to hope you could outrun him.
-
Preps buy us time. Time to learn how and time to remember how. Time to figure out what is a want, what is a need.

User avatar
MPMalloy
ZS Member
ZS Member
Posts: 4229
Joined: Mon Aug 22, 2005 2:48 am
Favorite Zombie Movies: I cannot watch zombie flicks anymore. The violence & gore disturbs me.
Location: Des Moines, Iowa

Re: Robot Uprising - Or, what to do when AI Does All The Job

Post by MPMalloy » Tue Oct 31, 2017 8:23 am

Asymetryczna wrote:
MPMalloy wrote:I am trying to understand your post. Would you help me a little, please?
MPM. I was just trying to keep the discussion going. The Monty Python bits were expressive. “Oh, there is lovely filth down here.” “Oh, king eh, very nice. And how did you get that? By exploiting the workers.” (Old Karl never had a job in his life but amazingly could reduce everything to the simplest question: Who benefits? …while he was accepting money from anyone willing to give.)

My point was that I thought ZG was saying that everyone is pushing for more better smarter AI without fully considering the 3rd, 4th and 5th orders of magnitude/reaction/consequence that may result, vice using the tired old identification of social classes.

The people that spend the most time explaining how unfair humans are to each other only serve to, directly or indirectly, support the rise of the machines. No matter what ‘pol’ theory any group of people says it supports, its leaders are capitalists with few exceptions, and their treasure is just often stored off shore. The driver behind capitalism is greed but this is a human failing. A machine would only seek efficiency and a smart machine to preserve it. Having to depend upon people with so many inefficiencies could eventually be seen as wasteful.

I am still considering "the bomb" analogy, a good one. Here's another: Consider the fascination with zombies. Could part of the charm come from the fact that no matter how large their numbers, we easily know we are smarter than them?
Got it.

Thank you.
Matthew Paul Malloy
Veteran: USAR, USA, IAANG.

Dragon Savers!
Golden Dragons!
Tropic Lightning!
Duty! Honor! Country!

"When society is experiencing severe disruptions, or is being completely interrupted, people have the responsibility to handle their own and their nearest relatives' fundamental needs for a while."

User avatar
Asymetryczna
ZS Member
ZS Member
Posts: 1233
Joined: Thu Jun 04, 2015 3:56 pm
Favorite Zombie Movies: Night of the Living Dead, Last of the Mohicans, Caddyshack
Location: Potomac

Re: Robot Uprising - Or, what to do when AI Does All The Job

Post by Asymetryczna » Tue Oct 31, 2017 12:39 pm

It was mostly thinking out loud. Brainstorming lots of thoughts into something without letting human or moral judgment creep in, and failing. Bias is programmed. Cognitive computing and autonomous learning may combine to take this away and allow decisions to be made with 99% certainty, without emotion or ego. On the one hand it would allow great decisions to be made with trust and confidence. On the other it will be the end of a great number of repeatable tasks considered mundane by ever-smarter machines and people who make great decisions. It's not new. I think Henry Ford dreamed of a factory that allowed parts to be dropped in at one side and a car pops out the other.
It's not what you look at that matters, it's what you see.
Henry David Thoreau

AlexanderPain
Posts: 24
Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2017 7:46 pm
Favorite Zombie Movies: The Walking Dead TV Show
Shawn of the Dead
Juan of the Dead
I am Legend
Location: Southeastern US
Contact:

Re: Robot Uprising - Or, what to do when AI Does All The Job

Post by AlexanderPain » Wed Nov 01, 2017 8:17 pm

Cool topic. The scary thing about these AI scenarios in the near future is that they are a bit like boiling the frog. Companies will lay off people over time as new technologies become available to do the jobs. Plus, the people who will be laid off first will be the people who do repetitive tasks and back office functions where the business rules can be enshrined in code. It's not the high status people with political presence money and chutzpah that will get replaced first. Optimists believe that this will liberate people to do all sorts of high value tasks that require deep thinking and a human touch. Unfortunately, not all people bring those analytical skills, verbal skills, and charisma to the table. Plus, retraining workers is difficult because there are many scam educational institutions and there is no guarantee that the next job you train for won't be on the chopping block, too.

I think the best thing to do is prepare for jobs requiring human presence, caring, cultural sensitivity, and creativity. It would also be good to be prepared to create your own business. I think it will be many years before people actually have to fight fully autonomous robot life forms directly. On the battlefield as they develop, they will either break things wide up in a robotic blitzkrieg or perhaps cause stalemate as humans won't be able to survive on the battlefield.
People were once divided into hundreds of groups, but now there are just two: the living and the dead.
Check out my blog: http://www.howtofightzombies.com/
I've just published my first Zombie Novel: Zombie Complex - The Battle for Chattahoochee Run - http://amzn.to/2xMc8KE

User avatar
NamelessStain
* * * * *
Posts: 2656
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2012 10:08 am
Location: Coastal SC

Re: Robot Uprising - Or, what to do when AI Does All The Job

Post by NamelessStain » Thu Nov 02, 2017 5:58 am

Link: http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/th ... n-11453107

Here's a snippet:
"This will be a new form of life": Stephen Hawking says artificial intelligence robots will replace humans COMPLETELY

The renowned physicist said that he believes AI will eventually reach a level where it will essentially be a "new form of life that will outperform humans"
jnathan wrote:Since we lost some posts due to some database work I'll just put this here for posterity.
Q wrote:Buckle up

User avatar
Asymetryczna
ZS Member
ZS Member
Posts: 1233
Joined: Thu Jun 04, 2015 3:56 pm
Favorite Zombie Movies: Night of the Living Dead, Last of the Mohicans, Caddyshack
Location: Potomac

Re: Robot Uprising - Or, what to do when AI Does All The Job

Post by Asymetryczna » Thu Nov 02, 2017 6:16 am

Although I try to avoid superlatives like "best" and "never" I think you [AP] make a great suggestion with the part about human presence. And to be self sustaining by owning your work. There have been a few mechanical people I have come across that lacked civility but I never wondered if they were powered by a battery. (Sir, page 3 has to receive the blue stamp at window 3. Yes but I have waited an hour to get to your window and you have a blue stamp sitting right there. Sir, page 3 has to receive the blue stamp at window 3).

I think it will be years before people have to fight fully autonomous robot life forms directly as well, probably beginning with a human that has 2-3 robots that mimic his or her actions(*), and since it is something we can see in our mind's eye it troubles me less than other scenarios we cannot. Take for instance, a non-fighting threat like love dolls. (Laughter subsides). With wealth being distributed less proportionately between those who have much and those who have little, it is likely that the affluent would be the first to succumb to the highly sophisticated mate that does everything it is told. Less children among the affluent countries could lead to huge offsets in population numbers and you have already seen mention of what can result when a few hundred men take a stand against a few thousand. Legends are born but 10 is greater than 1. All must eat.

One country of the many in Africa (Nigeria) is expected to surpass the population of the U.S. by 2050.
World population projected
Slower world population growth due to lower fertility rates

Future population growth is highly dependent on the path that future fertility will take, as relatively small changes in fertility behaviour, when projected over decades, can generate large differences in total population. In recent years, fertility has declined in virtually all areas of the world, even in Africa where fertility levels remain the highest of any major area.
This is not to highlight Nigeria, where many speak the King's English better than I, but merely to provide an example.

If you are familiar with the 'Law of the Instrument' you might consider that people will so focus on a fighting threat that they miss that everything else is being robotized all around them.
(Pardon me, for a moment. "Alexa - start the coffee pot").

(*) Not my idea. See "Forever Peace," by Joe Halderman. (Combat Veteran RVN. Creative writing instructor, MIT.)
It's not what you look at that matters, it's what you see.
Henry David Thoreau

User avatar
NamelessStain
* * * * *
Posts: 2656
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2012 10:08 am
Location: Coastal SC

Re: Robot Uprising - Or, what to do when AI Does All The Job

Post by NamelessStain » Thu Nov 02, 2017 8:59 am

jnathan wrote:Since we lost some posts due to some database work I'll just put this here for posterity.
Q wrote:Buckle up

User avatar
NamelessStain
* * * * *
Posts: 2656
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2012 10:08 am
Location: Coastal SC

Re: Robot Uprising - Or, what to do when AI Does All The Job

Post by NamelessStain » Mon Nov 06, 2017 10:17 am

Another too long for MPM:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... cery-order


Summary:
Online food ordered filled by robots. Originally a 50 item list took 2 hours, now down to 5 minutes.
jnathan wrote:Since we lost some posts due to some database work I'll just put this here for posterity.
Q wrote:Buckle up

User avatar
Dabster
* * *
Posts: 684
Joined: Mon Feb 21, 2011 12:20 am

Re: Robot Uprising - Or, what to do when AI Does All The Job

Post by Dabster » Mon Nov 06, 2017 11:42 am

NamelessStain wrote:Another too long for MPM:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... cery-order


Summary:
Online food ordered filled by robots. Originally a 50 item list took 2 hours, now down to 5 minutes.
Oh my...
Shiney side out... Shiney side out...

User avatar
NamelessStain
* * * * *
Posts: 2656
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2012 10:08 am
Location: Coastal SC

Re: Robot Uprising - Or, what to do when AI Does All The Job

Post by NamelessStain » Mon Nov 06, 2017 1:16 pm

Truly scary, AI building AI.. rinse repeat

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/05/tech ... ce-ai.html

I tried to get rid of photos, etc. So human errors may exist.
By CADE METZ
NOV. 5, 2017

SAN FRANCISCO — They are a dream of researchers but perhaps a nightmare for highly skilled computer programmers: artificially intelligent machines that can build other artificially intelligent machines.

With recent speeches in both Silicon Valley and China, Jeff Dean, one of Google’s leading engineers, spotlighted a Google project called AutoML. ML is short for machine learning, referring to computer algorithms that can learn to perform particular tasks on their own by analyzing data. AutoML, in turn, is a machine-learning algorithm that learns to build other machine-learning algorithms.

With it, Google may soon find a way to create A.I. technology that can partly take the humans out of building the A.I. systems that many believe are the future of the technology industry.

The project is part of a much larger effort to bring the latest and greatest A.I. techniques to a wider collection of companies and software developers.

The tech industry is promising everything from smartphone apps that can recognize faces to cars that can drive on their own. But by some estimates, only 10,000 people worldwide have the education, experience and talent needed to build the complex and sometimes mysterious mathematical algorithms that will drive this new breed of artificial intelligence.
Photo
Jeff Dean, a Google engineer, said the project he is working on will help companies build systems with artificial intelligence even if they lack extensive expertise. Credit Ryan Young for The New York Times

The world’s largest tech businesses, including Google, Facebook and Microsoft, sometimes pay millions of dollars a year to A.I. experts, effectively cornering the market for this hard-to-find talent. The shortage isn’t going away anytime soon, just because mastering these skills takes years of work.

The industry is not willing to wait. Companies are developing all sorts of tools that will make it easier for any operation to build its own A.I. software, including things like image and speech recognition services and online chatbots.

“We are following the same path that computer science has followed with every new type of technology,” said Joseph Sirosh, a vice president at Microsoft, which recently unveiled a tool to help coders build deep neural networks, a type of computer algorithm that is driving much of the recent progress in the A.I. field. “We are eliminating a lot of the heavy lifting.”

This is not altruism. Researchers like Mr. Dean believe that if more people and companies are working on artificial intelligence, it will propel their own research. At the same time, companies like Google, Amazon and Microsoft see serious money in the trend that Mr. Sirosh described. All of them are selling cloud-computing services that can help other businesses and developers build A.I.

“There is real demand for this,” said Matt Scott, a co-founder and the chief technical officer of Malong, a start-up in China that offers similar services. “And the tools are not yet satisfying all the demand.”
How a Robot Learns to Learn
A human-operated robot demonstrating the task of placing an apple into the blue bowl. The robot has never seen these objects before. Berkeley AI Research
After learning to learn with many objects and seeing this single video demonstration, the robot can learn to visually recognize the blue bowl from the pixels in the camera image and successfully place the apple into the bowl. Berkeley AI Research

This is most likely what Google has in mind for AutoML, as the company continues to hail the project’s progress. Google’s chief executive, Sundar Pichai, boasted about AutoML last month while unveiling a new Android smartphone.

Eventually, the Google project will help companies build systems with artificial intelligence even if they don’t have extensive expertise, Mr. Dean said. Today, he estimated, no more than a few thousand companies have the right talent for building A.I., but many more have the necessary data.

“We want to go from thousands of organizations solving machine learning problems to millions,” he said.

The daily Bits newsletter will keep you updated on the latest from Silicon Valley and the technology industry, plus exclusive analysis from our reporters and editors.
You agree to receive occasional updates and special offers for The New York Times's products and services.


Google is investing heavily in cloud-computing services — services that help other businesses build and run software — which it expects to be one of its primary economic engines in the years to come. And after snapping up such a large portion of the world’s top A.I researchers, it has a means of jump-starting this engine.

Neural networks are rapidly accelerating the development of A.I. Rather than building an image-recognition service or a language translation app by hand, one line of code at a time, engineers can much more quickly build an algorithm that learns tasks on its own.

By analyzing the sounds in a vast collection of old technical support calls, for instance, a machine-learning algorithm can learn to recognize spoken words.

But building a neural network is not like building a website or some run-of-the-mill smartphone app. It requires significant math skills, extreme trial and error, and a fair amount of intuition. Jean-François Gagné, the chief executive of an independent machine-learning lab called Element AI, refers to the process as “a new kind of computer programming.”

In building a neural network, researchers run dozens or even hundreds of experiments across a vast network of machines, testing how well an algorithm can learn a task like recognizing an image or translating from one language to another. Then they adjust particular parts of the algorithm over and over again, until they settle on something that works. Some call it a “dark art,” just because researchers find it difficult to explain why they make particular adjustments.

But with AutoML, Google is trying to automate this process. It is building algorithms that analyze the development of other algorithms, learning which methods are successful and which are not. Eventually, they learn to build more effective machine learning. Google said AutoML could now build algorithms that, in some cases, identified objects in photos more accurately than services built solely by human experts.


Barret Zoph, one of the Google researchers behind the project, believes that the same method will eventually work well for other tasks, like speech recognition or machine translation.

This is not always an easy thing to wrap your head around. But it is part of a significant trend in A.I. research. Experts call it “learning to learn” or “meta-learning.”

Many believe such methods will significantly accelerate the progress of A.I. in both the online and physical worlds. At the University of California, Berkeley, researchers are building techniques that could allow robots to learn new tasks based on what they have learned in the past.

“Computers are going to invent the algorithms for us, essentially,” said a Berkeley professor, Pieter Abbeel. “Algorithms invented by computers can solve many, many problems very quickly — at least that is the hope.”

This is also a way of expanding the number of people and businesses that can build artificial intelligence. These methods will not replace A.I. researchers entirely. Experts, like those at Google, must still do much of the important design work. But the belief is that the work of a few experts can help many others build their own software.

Renato Negrinho, a researcher at Carnegie Mellon University who is exploring technology similar to AutoML, said this was not a reality today but should be in the years to come. “It is just a matter of when,” he said.

jnathan wrote:Since we lost some posts due to some database work I'll just put this here for posterity.
Q wrote:Buckle up

User avatar
flybynight
* * * * *
Posts: 2188
Joined: Sun Dec 01, 2013 12:30 am

Re: Robot Uprising - Or, what to do when AI Does All The Job

Post by flybynight » Mon Nov 06, 2017 8:19 pm

And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.
As of now I bet you got me wrong

John Titor was right

User avatar
JayceSlayn
* * *
Posts: 572
Joined: Wed Mar 05, 2008 3:07 pm
Location: North Carolina

Re: Robot Uprising - Or, what to do when AI Does All The Job

Post by JayceSlayn » Mon Nov 06, 2017 8:53 pm

flybynight wrote:And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.
...And sometime after, start freezing all of said "fish, plankton, sea greens, and protein from the sea"...
Rahul Telang wrote:If you don’t have a plan in place, you will find different ways to screw it up
Colin Wilson wrote:There’s no point in kicking a dead horse. If the horse is up and ready and you give it a slap on the bum, it will take off. But if it’s dead, even if you slap it, it’s not going anywhere.

User avatar
NamelessStain
* * * * *
Posts: 2656
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2012 10:08 am
Location: Coastal SC

Re: Robot Uprising - Or, what to do when AI Does All The Job

Post by NamelessStain » Tue Nov 07, 2017 8:57 am

JayceSlayn wrote:
flybynight wrote:And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.
...And sometime after, start freezing all of said "fish, plankton, sea greens, and protein from the sea"...
Wait for the winds. Then my birds sing. And the deep grottos whisper my name. Box... Box... Box...



Ironically, I lent this movie to a coworker last week who had never seen it.
jnathan wrote:Since we lost some posts due to some database work I'll just put this here for posterity.
Q wrote:Buckle up

User avatar
Asymetryczna
ZS Member
ZS Member
Posts: 1233
Joined: Thu Jun 04, 2015 3:56 pm
Favorite Zombie Movies: Night of the Living Dead, Last of the Mohicans, Caddyshack
Location: Potomac

Re: Robot Uprising - Or, what to do when AI Does All The Job

Post by Asymetryczna » Tue Nov 07, 2017 12:35 pm

I laughed when I read that and then laughed with certainty at the video. RENEW! RENEW! That book and movie is worth a rewatch every few years in my opinion, the biggest difference being the age: Book (21) Movie (30). No need to be more specific.

In keeping with the thread theme, the computer that controlled that society was overwhelmed by learning new things I believe.
But hey, if you like Science Fiction Logan's Run is a good one.
Better yet, just Google this: "Stephen Hawking says..."
Fiction can become fact farther down the road.
It's not what you look at that matters, it's what you see.
Henry David Thoreau

User avatar
MPMalloy
ZS Member
ZS Member
Posts: 4229
Joined: Mon Aug 22, 2005 2:48 am
Favorite Zombie Movies: I cannot watch zombie flicks anymore. The violence & gore disturbs me.
Location: Des Moines, Iowa

Re: Robot Uprising - Or, what to do when AI Does All The Job

Post by MPMalloy » Tue Nov 07, 2017 5:53 pm

From ABC (Australia): AI experts urge Malcolm Turnbull to push for worldwide autonomous weapon banl
AI experts urge Malcolm Turnbull to push for worldwide autonomous weapon ban PM By Stephen Smiley Updated earlier today at 2:47am

More than a hundred experts in artificial intelligence have signed an open letter calling on Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull to push for a worldwide ban on autonomous lethal weapons.

Key points:

AI Professor Toby Walsh says the world is witnessing an arms race

He says lethal weapons powered by AI are already advanced

19 countries have signed on to a ban on autonomous lethal weapons, but Australia, the US and Britain have not

The academics and researchers from Australian universities voiced their shared concerns about what they call the weaponisation of artificial intelligence.

Artificial intelligence professor Toby Walsh from UNSW in Sydney, a signatory to the letter, said the world was witnessing an arms race.

"It will merely be a machine that's making the decision to target and deciding who's going to live and who is going to die," Professor Walsh said.

"At the moment, if you want to do evil, you have to persuade an army of people to do it for you, you have to be able to equip and arm them — it all takes significant resources.

What is artificial intelligence?

"Now you wouldn't need that. You'd need just one programmer, and these machines would follow whatever orders, however evil those orders might be, to the letter."

Professor Walsh said companies should instead be investing in research for other critical uses of artificial intelligence.

"There's plenty of great things that a robot could do. No-one should ever risk a life or a limb clearing a minefield," he said.

"There's lots of great things the military can spend their money on AI that will actually save lives and be very good from a humanitarian perspective."

Professor Walsh said autonomous lethal weapons powered by artificial intelligence were already well advanced.

"In the air we've talked about autonomous drones. The US Navy has just launched its first fully autonomous ship," he said.

"Under the sea we have autonomous submarines being developed by Boeing, and on land we see a number of autonomous weapons."

Australia has potential to take moral lead

Currently 19 countries around the world have already signed on to a ban on autonomous lethal weapons, but the US, Britain, France and Australia are holding out.

Professor Walsh said Australia could take an international lead on the issue of weaponising artificial intelligence.

"What we have done in many arms discussions is actually led the way. Australia has been very active in nuclear non-proliferation and numerous other arms treaties," he said.

"It would be great if we could actually follow that again and take a strong moral lead.

"Our human rights record needs to be examined now that we are fully elected members of the [UN] Human Rights Council."
Professor Maurice Pagnucco, head of the Computer Science and Engineering School at UNSW and another signatory, said the letter was about making sure human input remains.

"There is a certain level of concern here that if humans aren't involved in making certain levels of decisions, that we really are heading down a path we don't want to take," Professor Pagnucco said.

"This is a worldwide movement, so it's not just Australia. In this case, a lot of political leaders around the world have been contacted by academics and researchers in their countries."
Matthew Paul Malloy
Veteran: USAR, USA, IAANG.

Dragon Savers!
Golden Dragons!
Tropic Lightning!
Duty! Honor! Country!

"When society is experiencing severe disruptions, or is being completely interrupted, people have the responsibility to handle their own and their nearest relatives' fundamental needs for a while."

User avatar
Asymetryczna
ZS Member
ZS Member
Posts: 1233
Joined: Thu Jun 04, 2015 3:56 pm
Favorite Zombie Movies: Night of the Living Dead, Last of the Mohicans, Caddyshack
Location: Potomac

Re: Robot Uprising - Or, what to do when AI Does All The Job

Post by Asymetryczna » Wed Nov 08, 2017 1:31 pm

On a more positive note, some robotics do a world of good:

Robotic exoskeleton helps kids walk
Also
MIT Technology Review
It's not what you look at that matters, it's what you see.
Henry David Thoreau

LowKey
* * * * *
Posts: 4793
Joined: Tue Feb 03, 2009 9:32 am
Favorite Zombie Movies: Night of the Dead (original and remake)
Dawn of the Dead (original and remake)
Land of the Dead
Diary of the Dead
28 Days
28 Weeks
Resident Evil
Shawn of the Dead
Night of the Comet (cheese squared!)
Dead Alive (cheese cubed!!)
Location: In the Middle East, for my sins.

Re: Robot Uprising - Or, what to do when AI Does All The Job

Post by LowKey » Wed Nov 08, 2017 2:51 pm

MPMalloy wrote:From ABC (Australia): AI experts urge Malcolm Turnbull to push for worldwide autonomous weapon banl
AI experts urge Malcolm Turnbull to push for worldwide autonomous weapon ban PM By Stephen Smiley Updated earlier today at 2:47am

More than a hundred experts in artificial intelligence have signed an open letter calling on Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull to push for a worldwide ban on autonomous lethal weapons.

Key points:

AI Professor Toby Walsh says the world is witnessing an arms race

He says lethal weapons powered by AI are already advanced

19 countries have signed on to a ban on autonomous lethal weapons, but Australia, the US and Britain have not

The academics and researchers from Australian universities voiced their shared concerns about what they call the weaponisation of artificial intelligence.

Artificial intelligence professor Toby Walsh from UNSW in Sydney, a signatory to the letter, said the world was witnessing an arms race.

"It will merely be a machine that's making the decision to target and deciding who's going to live and who is going to die," Professor Walsh said.

"At the moment, if you want to do evil, you have to persuade an army of people to do it for you, you have to be able to equip and arm them — it all takes significant resources.

What is artificial intelligence?

"Now you wouldn't need that. You'd need just one programmer, and these machines would follow whatever orders, however evil those orders might be, to the letter."

Professor Walsh said companies should instead be investing in research for other critical uses of artificial intelligence.

"There's plenty of great things that a robot could do. No-one should ever risk a life or a limb clearing a minefield," he said.

"There's lots of great things the military can spend their money on AI that will actually save lives and be very good from a humanitarian perspective."

Professor Walsh said autonomous lethal weapons powered by artificial intelligence were already well advanced.

"In the air we've talked about autonomous drones. The US Navy has just launched its first fully autonomous ship," he said.

"Under the sea we have autonomous submarines being developed by Boeing, and on land we see a number of autonomous weapons."

Australia has potential to take moral lead

Currently 19 countries around the world have already signed on to a ban on autonomous lethal weapons, but the US, Britain, France and Australia are holding out.

Professor Walsh said Australia could take an international lead on the issue of weaponising artificial intelligence.

"What we have done in many arms discussions is actually led the way. Australia has been very active in nuclear non-proliferation and numerous other arms treaties," he said.

"It would be great if we could actually follow that again and take a strong moral lead.

"Our human rights record needs to be examined now that we are fully elected members of the [UN] Human Rights Council."
Professor Maurice Pagnucco, head of the Computer Science and Engineering School at UNSW and another signatory, said the letter was about making sure human input remains.

"There is a certain level of concern here that if humans aren't involved in making certain levels of decisions, that we really are heading down a path we don't want to take," Professor Pagnucco said.

"This is a worldwide movement, so it's not just Australia. In this case, a lot of political leaders around the world have been contacted by academics and researchers in their countries."
As if signing a piece of paper would prevent many of the signatories from continuing to develop and explore any weapons technology. If caught they'll just say it all depends on what your definition of the word "is" is, or является, or 是 for that matter.
Once you open Pandora's box, or simply suggest that it can be opened, sure as the sun raises someone is going to go poking about inside of it to see what they can see; secure in the knowledge that they won't screw things up because they're careful by golly.
“Political tags – such as royalist, communist, democrat, populist, fascist, liberal, conservative, and so forth – are never basic criteria. The human race divides politically into those who want people to be controlled and those who have no such desire.” Robert A. Heinlein

User avatar
JayceSlayn
* * *
Posts: 572
Joined: Wed Mar 05, 2008 3:07 pm
Location: North Carolina

Re: Robot Uprising - Or, what to do when AI Does All The Job

Post by JayceSlayn » Wed Nov 08, 2017 2:58 pm

Asymetryczna wrote:On a more positive note, some robotics do a world of good:

Robotic exoskeleton helps kids walk
Also
MIT Technology Review
Alexander Pain had mentioned earlier how entering the radically different future is a little like "boiling a frog", in that the change is just slow enough that you may lack noticing it. I think the suggestion that we are already willfully (gladly in many cases) becoming cyborgs, is quite valid.

Human civilization has always been defined by the kinds and the extent of our use of technology. This age is no different, but the types of technology are new, and they are closer and closer to "us" all the time.

A personally-shaped, carbon fiber prosthetic leg is obviously superior to, but not too far removed, from a crude wooden peg. On the other hand, we now have the ability to implant sensors in people's nerves/brain to allow people to control entirely robotic limbs, attached to themselves or even at great distances. We can let the lame walk, the blind see, and the deaf hear, all thanks to technologies created in the last few years. (To be honest, we are just missing raising the dead, and good news to the poor now...) How we learn about the developments in the greater world (i.e. News) has crept ever closer, from the town crier, to newspaper, to radio, to TV, and now on screens which we carry instantaneous access to the entire internet with us wherever we go. The electrical grid, telecommunications networks, and the internet are effectively parts of a single, globe-spanning machine that augments humanity.

No doubt we are living in world of unimaginable fantasy to our ancestors, and we are almost certainly individually capable of more things and better off than at any point in history. And yet many of the same human problems forever remain. "War, war never changes", at least in its conception and ruthlessness, but the weapons sure have moved on.

I would not be surprised if in the next few decades that our technology leaps right into our skulls, or we submit to some kind of intellectual unity and just upload our consciousnesses into a collective, a la "The Etheria" in http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R4UdXEEAszo. I don't think comparing the feasibility of "The Etheria" to the reality of Facebook - people willingly joining the largest artificial human society ever known - is entirely unrealistic. Our psychology craves belonging to "the group" behind only food, shelter, and safety. Along the way, we will also gladly utilize every medical advancement and newest convenience.

EDIT: And this one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CdUCndZfEzQ
Last edited by JayceSlayn on Wed Nov 08, 2017 4:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Rahul Telang wrote:If you don’t have a plan in place, you will find different ways to screw it up
Colin Wilson wrote:There’s no point in kicking a dead horse. If the horse is up and ready and you give it a slap on the bum, it will take off. But if it’s dead, even if you slap it, it’s not going anywhere.

User avatar
MPMalloy
ZS Member
ZS Member
Posts: 4229
Joined: Mon Aug 22, 2005 2:48 am
Favorite Zombie Movies: I cannot watch zombie flicks anymore. The violence & gore disturbs me.
Location: Des Moines, Iowa

Re: Robot Uprising - Or, what to do when AI Does All The Job

Post by MPMalloy » Wed Nov 08, 2017 3:22 pm

JayceSlayn wrote:
Asymetryczna wrote:On a more positive note, some robotics do a world of good:

Robotic exoskeleton helps kids walk
Also
MIT Technology Review
Alexander Pain had mentioned earlier how entering the radically different future is a little like "boiling a frog", in that the change is just slow enough that you may lack noticing it. I think the suggestion that we are already willfully (gladly in many cases) becoming cyborgs, is quite valid.

Human civilization has always been defined by the kinds and the extent of our use of technology. This age is no different, but the types of technology are new, and they are closer and closer to "us" all the time.

A personally-shaped, carbon fiber prosthetic leg is obviously superior to, but not too far removed, from a crude wooden peg. On the other hand, we now have the ability to implant sensors in people's nerves/brain to allow people to control entirely robotic limbs, attached to themselves or even at great distances. We can let the lame walk, the blind see, and the deaf hear, all thanks to technologies created in the last few years. (To be honest, we are just missing raising the dead, and good news to the poor now...) How we learn about the developments in the greater world (i.e. News) has crept ever closer, from the town crier, to newspaper, to radio, to TV, and now on screens which we carry instantaneous access to the entire internet with us wherever we go. The electrical grid, telecommunications networks, and the internet are effectively parts of a single, globe-spanning machine that augments humanity.

No doubt we are living in world of unimaginable fantasy to our ancestors, and we are almost certainly individually capable of more things and better off than at any point in history. And yet many of the same human problems forever remain. "War, war never changes", at least in its conception and ruthlessness, but the weapons sure have moved on.

I would not be surprised if in the next few decades that our technology leaps right into our skulls, or we submit to some kind of intellectual unity and just upload our consciousnesses into a collective, a la "The Etheria" in http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R4UdXEEAszo. I don't think comparing the feasibility of "The Etheria" to the reality of Facebook - people willingly joining the largest artificial human society ever known - is entirely unrealistic. Our psychology craves belonging to "the group" behind only food, shelter, and safety. Along the way, we will also gladly utilize every medical advancement and newest convenience.

EDIT: And this one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CdUCndZfEzQ
Wow.
Matthew Paul Malloy
Veteran: USAR, USA, IAANG.

Dragon Savers!
Golden Dragons!
Tropic Lightning!
Duty! Honor! Country!

"When society is experiencing severe disruptions, or is being completely interrupted, people have the responsibility to handle their own and their nearest relatives' fundamental needs for a while."

User avatar
MPMalloy
ZS Member
ZS Member
Posts: 4229
Joined: Mon Aug 22, 2005 2:48 am
Favorite Zombie Movies: I cannot watch zombie flicks anymore. The violence & gore disturbs me.
Location: Des Moines, Iowa

Re: Robot Uprising - Or, what to do when AI Does All The Job

Post by MPMalloy » Wed Nov 08, 2017 4:47 pm

From ABC (Australia): AI: Urgent need to 'reconceive schooling' to ensure workforce not consigned to joblessness
AI: Urgent need to 'reconceive schooling' to ensure workforce not consigned to joblessness By education reporter Natasha Robinson

Schools must urgently adapt to confront the enormous challenges presented by artificial intelligence, according to leading educators who are calling for an overhaul to curriculum, assessment and teaching methods.

Australia is hosting international experts on education and AI at a symposium that will be attended by teachers from around the country.

One of the guest speakers is Rose Luckin, a professor at University College London, who believes AI could transform education by freeing teachers from mundane administration and assessment tasks.

She said it would allow teachers to focus on what she describes as "meta-level skills" in which students developed high levels of self-knowledge of their own abilities and skills — a quality that is very difficult for computers to emulate.

"We need to review what and how we teach and ensure that AI is designed and used as a tool to make our students [and ourselves] smarter, not as a technology that takes over human roles and dumbs us down," Professor Luckin says.

"It's not just STEM [science, technology, engineering and maths] subjects. There does need to be quite a significant shift in emphasis away from purely what I would call routine cognitive processing."

The symposium will also hear from Washington-based Marc Tucker from the United States' National Centre on Education and the Economy.

He believes there is an urgent need to "reconceive schooling" all around the world to ensure the future workforce is not consigned to joblessness.

"Students will need strong cognitive skills, much deeper knowledge and much more sophisticated skills, if they are going to be partners to increasingly intelligent agents and not put out of work by them," the abstract for Mr Tucker's paper to be delivered at the symposium says.
"And they will need to be very strong where the intelligent agents are, at least for the time being, relatively weak: in areas like creativity (and) imagination."
The NSW Education Department has been consulting intensively with experts in AI in recent months to understand how schools must adapt, department deputy secretary Leslie Loble said.

"This symposium is the start of ongoing work that we hope will prompt a national debate and an ongoing dialogue with our teachers, with our students, with our parents, with communities and employers, about how NSW and Australia can have the education that counts," Ms Loble said.
"In 2030, when today's kindergartner leaves high school, the world will look quite different. AI will certainly be an embedded feature.
"We feel there is an urgency to tackle education changes so that that child leaves schooling armed with the knowledge and the skills, the capabilities and the confidence to shape their world and, if you're talking about AI, to ensure that the machines serve human purposes."
Calls to overhaul the way students are assessed

There is widespread agreement among experts that the basics of schooling remain the same: a solid foundation in reading, writing and arithmetic and strong subject knowledge.

But those skills will not be enough to safeguard the future of jobs.

Empathy, a global outlook, critical and reflective thinking, adaptability and the willingness to be a lifelong learner will be key to navigating the world of AI.

But there are also calls for the way students are assessed to be overhauled. Professor Luckin argues traditional ways of assessing students are "no longer fit for purpose".

"The current outdated assessment systems that prevail across the world revolve around testing and examining the routine cognitive subject knowledge that can be easily automated," Professor Luckin says.

"These assessment systems are ineffective, time-consuming and the cause of great anxiety for learners, parents and teachers."

And she may have found an ally in NSW education department head Mark Scott, who says in a book that will be published at today's symposium that assessment methods should become sophisticated.

"We need to move away from the single point in time measurement approach to testing and towards a more dynamic form of assessment that gives teachers flows of insight where progress can be regularly and objectively mapped," Mr Scott writes in the book Future Frontiers: Education for an AI World.

"This will allow assessment to become more diagnostic, as in medicine, to allow teachers to more easily identify and address individual student needs."

The Director of the 3A Institute at the Australian National University, Professor Genevieve Bell, will also appear on an expert panel at the symposium. She agrees there is an urgent need to examine the way schools are adapting to AI.

"I do think we're at an interesting intersection where a lot of the things we've been talking about in some cases for 60 years are now achieving maturity. Artificial intelligence is one of those," she said.

"And so we're at a moment in time where we do need to be thinking about how do we equip students, but also ourselves, to handle that world."
Matthew Paul Malloy
Veteran: USAR, USA, IAANG.

Dragon Savers!
Golden Dragons!
Tropic Lightning!
Duty! Honor! Country!

"When society is experiencing severe disruptions, or is being completely interrupted, people have the responsibility to handle their own and their nearest relatives' fundamental needs for a while."

User avatar
flybynight
* * * * *
Posts: 2188
Joined: Sun Dec 01, 2013 12:30 am

Re: Robot Uprising - Or, what to do when AI Does All The Job

Post by flybynight » Wed Nov 08, 2017 6:56 pm

"I do think we're at an interesting intersection where a lot of the things we've been talking about in some cases for 60 years are now achieving maturity. Artificial intelligence is one of those," she said.

"And so we're at a moment in time where we do need to be thinking about how do we equip students, but also ourselves, to handle that world
Phased plasma rifle in the 40-watt range.
As of now I bet you got me wrong

John Titor was right

User avatar
NamelessStain
* * * * *
Posts: 2656
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2012 10:08 am
Location: Coastal SC

Re: Robot Uprising - Or, what to do when AI Does All The Job

Post by NamelessStain » Thu Nov 09, 2017 6:46 am

flybynight wrote:
"I do think we're at an interesting intersection where a lot of the things we've been talking about in some cases for 60 years are now achieving maturity. Artificial intelligence is one of those," she said.

"And so we're at a moment in time where we do need to be thinking about how do we equip students, but also ourselves, to handle that world
Phased plasma rifle in the 40-watt range.
Just what you see on the shelves, pal.
jnathan wrote:Since we lost some posts due to some database work I'll just put this here for posterity.
Q wrote:Buckle up

User avatar
JayceSlayn
* * *
Posts: 572
Joined: Wed Mar 05, 2008 3:07 pm
Location: North Carolina

Re: Robot Uprising - Or, what to do when AI Does All The Job

Post by JayceSlayn » Mon Nov 13, 2017 7:14 pm

Video from AI researchers to warn against the creation of "Slaughterbots".


Unfortunately, as I said before, I don't think the technologies and skills required to create "Slaughterbots" would be even as difficult to acquire or tightly controllable as say nuclear weapon construction or chemical weapon production, thus meaning that potentially a lot of countries or militant organizations could probably one day achieve them. In those kinds of scenarios, a global ban on the usage of those technologies can sufficiently discourage large governments (also perhaps provided that they have a rival with parity capabilities - MAD-esque), but there will always be some group who is willing to use them anyway. At the point that there is not a technological or resource barrier to their use, only a policy barrier, you are standing on the edge of a very dangerous precipice all the time.
Rahul Telang wrote:If you don’t have a plan in place, you will find different ways to screw it up
Colin Wilson wrote:There’s no point in kicking a dead horse. If the horse is up and ready and you give it a slap on the bum, it will take off. But if it’s dead, even if you slap it, it’s not going anywhere.

User avatar
JeeperCreeper
ZS Member
ZS Member
Posts: 2167
Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2014 2:49 am
Favorite Zombie Movies: Twilight... making zombies of our future generations
Location: Yo Momma's House

Re: Robot Uprising - Or, what to do when AI Does All The Job

Post by JeeperCreeper » Mon Nov 13, 2017 7:23 pm

I don't think was mentioned yet, but Saudi Arabia has granted their famous robot citizenship...

http://fortune.com/2017/10/26/robot-cit ... di-arabia/

Soon to be followed by the spoof article from the duffel blog: robot citizen beheaded...

https://www.duffelblog.com/2017/11/saud ... t-citizen/


On a side note, I just watched Chappie on Netflix... the paranoia continues...
They see me trollin', they hatin'.... keyboardin' tryna catch me typin' dirty
Halfapint wrote:There are some exceptions like myself and jeepercreeper.... but we are the forum asshats. We protect our positions with gusto
zero11010 wrote:The girlfriend is a good shot with a 10/22.
Her secondary offense will be nagging.

Post Reply

Return to “What Would You Do?”