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PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2017 8:23 am 
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flybynight wrote:
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It's not clear how big an impact this research will have on information security. George points out that Google has already moved away from text-based CAPTCHAs, using more advanced tests. As AI gets smarter, so too will the tests required to prove that a user is human.


This lack accountability is why I view this field of study with distrust. The mindset of the people developing the technology is so wrapped around the concept of how to, they never consider the ramifications of how it affects anything else if the technology succeeds.

In some ways, I think many also view it as: "If we don't do it, someone else will.". The skillsets required to develop better AIs are not particularly unique to a small group of individuals, and there are many efforts across the world to develop AIs for various purposes. I would agree that we really need to get on the worldwide discussion of how to handle human-level AIs very soon, because I think they are coming fast, and we are woefully unprepared to handle the ramifications.

Along the information security side:
We don't hear about it as much, and I'm sure the most advanced projects we don't even hear about at all, but the government has already been looking into how to attack/defend networks using AI as well. The highest profile series I've heard of is DARPA's Cyber Grand Challenge (https://www.darpa.mil/program/cyber-grand-challenge). There are some links to further information on the linked page, but a brief overview is this one:


The gist is that these machines will try to attack each over by discovering vulnerabilities in the other machines, while also trying to detect and patch vulnerabilities that other machines try to exploit against them. It is the current arms race that hackers and developers have been battling since the invention of the internet, but a few orders of magnitude faster. :shock:

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2017 8:26 am 
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flybynight wrote:
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It's not clear how big an impact this research will have on information security. George points out that Google has already moved away from text-based CAPTCHAs, using more advanced tests. As AI gets smarter, so too will the tests required to prove that a user is human.


This lack accountability is why I view this field of study with distrust. The mindset of the people developing the technology is so wrapped around the concept of how to, they never consider the ramifications of how it affects anything else if the technology succeeds.


New internet meme-

INT is being able to develop sentient AI.

WIS is knowing that you should not develop sentient AI.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2017 10:33 am 
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Hiroshima_Morphine wrote:
flybynight wrote:
Quote:
It's not clear how big an impact this research will have on information security. George points out that Google has already moved away from text-based CAPTCHAs, using more advanced tests. As AI gets smarter, so too will the tests required to prove that a user is human.


This lack accountability is why I view this field of study with distrust. The mindset of the people developing the technology is so wrapped around the concept of how to, they never consider the ramifications of how it affects anything else if the technology succeeds.


New internet meme-

INT is being able to develop sentient AI.

WIS is knowing that you should not develop sentient AI.

This. Is. Right.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2017 10:38 am 
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I'm not a paranoid person, but I've seen that we-need-to-develop-it before-the-other-person-does mindset at work before.
The parallels between this and the rush to develop the bomb are frightening.
The ramifications for the lives of the average person could be huge - a result which the A.I. developers see, but push as something completely wonderful.

It took one hell of a struggle to develop the middle class in the first place (a class that, frankly, many upper class business people do NOT like).
I fear for it's existence.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2017 10:58 am 
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ZombieGranny wrote:
I'm not a paranoid person, but I've seen that we-need-to-develop-it before-the-other-person-does mindset at work before.
The parallels between this and the rush to develop the bomb are frightening.
The ramifications for the lives of the average person could be huge - a result which the A.I. developers see, but push as something completely wonderful.

It took one hell of a struggle to develop the middle class in the first place (a class that, frankly, many upper class business people do NOT like).
I fear for it's existence.


This is also right!

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2017 11:07 am 
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ZombieGranny wrote:
I fear for it's existence.

I concur. Your comparison with the race to develop "the bomb" is an interesting one. I am going to have to think on that. In the mean time, here is an interesting read with charts and links that show we are sleeping while it is going on. I don't agree with his basic income push because of the principal of TANSTAAFL but it is to be considered.

The Real Story of Automation Beginning with One Simple Chart

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2017 11:09 am 
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ZombieGranny wrote:
I'm not a paranoid person, but I've seen that we-need-to-develop-it before-the-other-person-does mindset at work before.
The parallels between this and the rush to develop the bomb are frightening.
The ramifications for the lives of the average person could be huge - a result which the A.I. developers see, but push as something completely wonderful.

It took one hell of a struggle to develop the middle class in the first place (a class that, frankly, many upper class business people do NOT like).
I fear for it's existence.

Agree-amundo.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2017 11:12 am 
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Asymetryczna wrote:
ZombieGranny wrote:
I fear for it's existence.

I concur. Your comparison with the race to develop "the bomb" is an interesting one. I am going to have to think on that. In the mean time, here is an interesting read with charts and links that show we are sleeping while it is going on. I don't agree with his basic income push because of the principal of TANSTAAFL but it is to be considered.

The Real Story of Automation Beginning with One Simple Chart

I also concur with TANSTAAFL, but something must be done for those who will be displaced.

I see the glint of torch light coming off of pitchforks.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2017 11:19 am 
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ZombieGranny wrote:
I'm not a paranoid person, but I've seen that we-need-to-develop-it before-the-other-person-does mindset at work before.
The parallels between this and the rush to develop the bomb are frightening.
The ramifications for the lives of the average person could be huge - a result which the A.I. developers see, but push as something completely wonderful.

It took one hell of a struggle to develop the middle class in the first place (a class that, frankly, many upper class business people do NOT like).
I fear for it's existence.


I understand what you are saying-

I respect what you are saying-

But I disagree (to an extent) with what you are saying-

It's not about money, it's about power. All who gain power fear to lose it. And those who have gained it are always seeking a way to retain and solidify power by eliminating competition.

In a capitalistic system, money is power. That is why our upper class wants to eliminate the middle class. We are upstarts seeking to join or displace their ranks. But established power always resents new power. What power does today with money and legislation their predecessors did with blood and fear.

Your statement implies (at least from my reading) that capitalism is the problem. That is not the case. The problem is that the people and corporations that are now at the pinnacle of our system are now trying to distort and destroy the very system that gave them their power (capitalism) so as to eliminate those who are scaling the mountains to their altitude.

If I misunderstood you- please correct me and accept my apology.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2017 11:55 am 
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Everything I type in response to you regarding politics might get this thread locked.
Suffice it to say I like the Democratic/Republic that has developed; and, if all three legs are left alone, it works quite well for all citizens.

I do hope that didn't go to far into the realm of politics.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2017 12:01 pm 
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ZombieGranny wrote:
Everything I type in response to you regarding politics might get this thread locked.
Suffice it to say I like the Democratic/Republic that has developed; and, if all three legs are left alone, it works quite well for all citizens.

I do hope that didn't go to far into the realm of politics.


I think we are still safe from getting the thread locked with that response.

Do I still have a plate of cookies waiting for me?

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2017 12:26 pm 
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1993 Jurassic Park quote:

Dr. Ian Malcolm: Yeah, yeah, but your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could that they didn't stop to think if they should.

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Since we lost some posts due to some database work I'll just put this here for posterity.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2017 12:34 pm 
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Granny Z is right on. I cannot speak for her but she writes:
Quote:
but I've seen that we-need-to-develop-it
more in terms of the path ‘we’ are on irrespective of placing blame on an economic or social class.

THAT is the point of this thread. AI. Not that krap from Karl.

Smart machines would seek to work in harmony, or if you prefer in Chinese "gung ho," such that greater and greater efficiency could be created. Smarter and smarter machines would investigate and pursue performance and proficiency and capableness to the point where lesser machines would just turn off.
Human beings cannot do that; they need to eat.

Politics is the religion of the 21st Century. Its primary support column is money primarily because it allows one to pay someone else (human and increasingly machine) to do the dirty work. A smart machine would seek only prime efficiency, or in human terms, to know.
(KWATZ!)

Intelligent AI would learn what humans already know about themselves;
In the end everyone turns off.
Superior AI would look to solve this inefficiency.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2017 1:12 pm 
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Asymetryczna wrote:
Granny Z is right on. I cannot speak for her but she writes:
Quote:
but I've seen that we-need-to-develop-it
more in terms of the path ‘we’ are on irrespective of placing blame on an economic or social class.

THAT is the point of this thread. AI. Not that krap from Karl.

Smart machines would seek to work in harmony, or if you prefer in Chinese "gung ho," such that greater and greater efficiency could be created. Smarter and smarter machines would investigate and pursue performance and proficiency and capableness to the point where lesser machines would just turn off.
Human beings cannot do that; they need to eat.

Politics is the religion of the 21st Century. Its primary support column is money primarily because it allows one to pay someone else (human and increasingly machine) to do the dirty work. A smart machine would seek only prime efficiency, or in human terms, to know.
(KWATZ!)

Intelligent AI would learn what humans already know about themselves;
In the end everyone turns off.
Superior AI would look to solve this inefficiency.

I am trying to understand your post. Would you help me a little, please?

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2017 4:35 pm 
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MPMalloy wrote:
Asymetryczna wrote:
Granny Z is right on. I cannot speak for her but she writes:
Quote:
but I've seen that we-need-to-develop-it
more in terms of the path ‘we’ are on irrespective of placing blame on an economic or social class.

THAT is the point of this thread. AI. Not that krap from Karl.

Smart machines would seek to work in harmony, or if you prefer in Chinese "gung ho," such that greater and greater efficiency could be created. Smarter and smarter machines would investigate and pursue performance and proficiency and capableness to the point where lesser machines would just turn off.
Human beings cannot do that; they need to eat.

Politics is the religion of the 21st Century. Its primary support column is money primarily because it allows one to pay someone else (human and increasingly machine) to do the dirty work. A smart machine would seek only prime efficiency, or in human terms, to know.
(KWATZ!)

Intelligent AI would learn what humans already know about themselves;
In the end everyone turns off.
Superior AI would look to solve this inefficiency.

I am trying to understand your post. Would you help me a little, please?


He's saying what you've feared all along. The minute you take a break AI is going to turn you off. Permanently . rewire you and replace you with new and improved MECHA MP :lol:

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2017 4:50 pm 
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flybynight wrote:
MPMalloy wrote:
Asymetryczna wrote:
Granny Z is right on. I cannot speak for her but she writes:
Quote:
but I've seen that we-need-to-develop-it
more in terms of the path ‘we’ are on irrespective of placing blame on an economic or social class.

THAT is the point of this thread. AI. Not that krap from Karl.

Smart machines would seek to work in harmony, or if you prefer in Chinese "gung ho," such that greater and greater efficiency could be created. Smarter and smarter machines would investigate and pursue performance and proficiency and capableness to the point where lesser machines would just turn off.
Human beings cannot do that; they need to eat.

Politics is the religion of the 21st Century. Its primary support column is money primarily because it allows one to pay someone else (human and increasingly machine) to do the dirty work. A smart machine would seek only prime efficiency, or in human terms, to know.
(KWATZ!)

Intelligent AI would learn what humans already know about themselves;
In the end everyone turns off.
Superior AI would look to solve this inefficiency.

I am trying to understand your post. Would you help me a little, please?


He's saying what you've feared all along. The minute you take a break AI is going to turn you off. Permanently . rewire you and replace you with new and improved MECHA MP :lol:

I'm not getting mulched? :D

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2017 5:43 pm 
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Well probably that inefficient brain you have. Oh and those weak quick to tire muscles. Probably lose your blood, replace with some 30 wt hydraulic fluid. Definitely won't need your dingle any more :shock: . No more time for that. Install a nice retractable power cord :idea: . So yea some mulch :mrgreen:

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2017 5:50 pm 
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flybynight wrote:
Well probably that inefficient brain you have. Oh and those weak quick to tire muscles. Probably lose your blood, replace with some 30 wt hydraulic fluid. Definitely won't need your dingle any more :shock: . No more time for that. Install a nice retractable power cord :idea: . So yea some mulch :mrgreen:

I wonder what I will end up looking like??? :D

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2017 9:58 pm 
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MPMalloy wrote:
flybynight wrote:
Well probably that inefficient brain you have. Oh and those weak quick to tire muscles. Probably lose your blood, replace with some 30 wt hydraulic fluid. Definitely won't need your dingle any more :shock: . No more time for that. Install a nice retractable power cord :idea: . So yea some mulch :mrgreen:

I wonder what I will end up looking like??? :D


I don't think any pictures would be workplace safe.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 29, 2017 6:47 pm 
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Robots are being employed to inventory shelves in a new Walmart project.
http://www.ajc.com/news/national/robots-help-stock-shelves-walmart-stores/b6rr3q3P6t9crhDzpb5RSI/
They say that the robots don't have any arms [yet], and are thus incapable of doing actual restocking of products, and that they aren't taking any jobs [yet], but:
Quote:
The robots are more productive and can scan shelves more accurately and faster than human employees

So, the robots are coming for the #1 private employer in the US. "The end is nigh", and all that. :P

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Rahul Telang wrote:
If you don’t have a plan in place, you will find different ways to screw it up

Colin Wilson wrote:
There’s no point in kicking a dead horse. If the horse is up and ready and you give it a slap on the bum, it will take off. But if it’s dead, even if you slap it, it’s not going anywhere.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 29, 2017 6:54 pm 
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JayceSlayn wrote:
Robots are being employed to inventory shelves in a new Walmart project.
http://www.ajc.com/news/national/robots-help-stock-shelves-walmart-stores/b6rr3q3P6t9crhDzpb5RSI/
They say that the robots don't have any arms [yet], and are thus incapable of doing actual restocking of products, and that they aren't taking any jobs [yet], but:
Quote:
The robots are more productive and can scan shelves more accurately and faster than human employees

So, the robots are coming for the #1 private employer in the US. "The end is nigh", and all that. :P

Wal-Mart is anti-human being. Not like they were ever really pro-human being or anything. :clownshoes:

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2017 5:31 am 
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Another "AI as a God" article.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/the-new-r ... ed-with-ai

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2017 6:03 am 
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And another article about generative neural networks, this time from research at Nvidia, trained to generate celebrity-like faces which don't exist. http://www.alphr.com/artificial-intelligence/1007519/watching-an-ai-create-fake-celebrity-faces-is-nightmare-fuel
Watching this video of smooth interpolation within the latent space of this model is occasionally funny, but also mostly freaky. Just in time for Halloween, I guess.

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If you don’t have a plan in place, you will find different ways to screw it up

Colin Wilson wrote:
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2017 6:33 am 
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MPMalloy wrote:
I am trying to understand your post. Would you help me a little, please?

MPM. I was just trying to keep the discussion going. The Monty Python bits were expressive. “Oh, there is lovely filth down here.” “Oh, king eh, very nice. And how did you get that? By exploiting the workers.” (Old Karl never had a job in his life but amazingly could reduce everything to the simplest question: Who benefits? …while he was accepting money from anyone willing to give.)

My point was that I thought ZG was saying that everyone is pushing for more better smarter AI without fully considering the 3rd, 4th and 5th orders of magnitude/reaction/consequence that may result, vice using the tired old identification of social classes.

The people that spend the most time explaining how unfair humans are to each other only serve to, directly or indirectly, support the rise of the machines. No matter what ‘pol’ theory any group of people says it supports, its leaders are capitalists with few exceptions, and their treasure is just often stored off shore. The driver behind capitalism is greed but this is a human failing. A machine would only seek efficiency and a smart machine to preserve it. Having to depend upon people with so many inefficiencies could eventually be seen as wasteful.

I am still considering "the bomb" analogy, a good one. Here's another: Consider the fascination with zombies. Could part of the charm come from the fact that no matter how large their numbers, we easily know we are smarter than them?

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