It is currently Thu Oct 19, 2017 7:56 am

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 534 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 8:12 am 
Offline
* * * * *
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2012 10:08 am
Posts: 2573
Location: Coastal SC
Has thanked: 268 times
Been thanked: 293 times
A robot tax?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/2 ... robot-tax/

Quote:

South Korea has introduced what is being called the world's first tax on robots amid fears that machines will replace human workers, leading to mass unemployment.

The country will limit tax incentives for investments in automated machines as part of a newly proposed revision of its tax laws.

It is hoped the policy will make up for lost income taxes as workers are gradually replaced by machines, as well as filling welfare coffers ahead of an expected rise in unemployment, according to the Korea Times.

Experts predict robot workers will replace humans in numerous industries in the near future, with machines and artificial intelligence expected to take a third of British jobs by 2030.
Robot begins trial as office manager in Milton Keynes Robot begins trial as office manager in Milton Keynes

The South Korean Government said it will reduce tax deduction benefits for investment in automation, which had been introduced to boost productivity. The proposal could come into force at the end of the year, when the country's current tax law is due to expire.

"Though it is not about a direct tax on robots, it can be interpreted as a similar kind of policy considering that both involve the same issue of industrial automation," an industry source told the Korea Times.

Korea is the first country to implement a robot tax, but it is not the only one to have proposed a technology levy.

Bill Gates has previously called for a tax on robots to balance the Government's income as jobs are lost to automation. He said the levy could help slow down the pace of change and provide money to hire additional employees in sectors that require people, such as health care.

"Right now, the human worker who does, say, $50,000 worth of work in a factory, that income is taxed and you get income tax, social security tax, all those things," said Gates in February. "If a robot comes in to do the same thing, you’d think that we’d tax the robot at a similar level."

Companies and robotics companies have criticised such proposals, saying a tax on robots would be detrimental to businesses and impede innovation.

Industries most at risk from automation include transportation, manufacturing and waste management, according to PwC. Robots are less likely to replace humans in roles that require critical thinking and creativity.

British firms have already started trialing robots in the workplace, with roles including food delivery, receptionist and office management.

_________________
jnathan wrote:
Since we lost some posts due to some database work I'll just put this here for posterity.


Share on FacebookShare on TwitterShare on TumblrShare on Google+
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 10:48 am 
Offline
* * * * *
User avatar

Joined: Sun Apr 05, 2009 11:58 pm
Posts: 3633
Has thanked: 1387 times
Been thanked: 446 times
raptor wrote:
MPMalloy wrote:
teotwaki wrote:
Eliminate the cost of the pilots and then magically the cost of tickets will go down???

A business voluntarily accepting less money? I ain't buying it. :wink:


Businesses cut prices all the time when they have sales. :D



The airline industry is volatile but airlines are making very large profits. I don't see a downward trend in passengers' ticket prices. Using AI for pilots will bring greater profits and it is safe to say that fares will not go down just because of AI replacing pilots.

Image

Image

_________________
Most of my adventures are on my blog http://suntothenorth.blogspot.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
My Introduction With Pictures: http://zombiehunters.org/forum/viewtopi ... 10&t=79019" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Graduated with honors from kit porn university


Last edited by teotwaki on Thu Sep 28, 2017 6:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 12:38 pm 
Offline
ZS Moderator
ZS Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Sun Mar 04, 2007 10:18 pm
Posts: 15571
Location: Greater New Orleans Area
Has thanked: 808 times
Been thanked: 459 times
The biggest variable cost for airlines is fuel cost and fuel prices have been low, hence the high profits.

Labor is also big semi-variable cost but on a per flight basis but that labor cost includes a lot of support personnel like mechanics, gate agents, baggage handlers, CSR staffing, logistics never mind flight attendents and pilots. The savings of elimination two pilots is not going to save a lot on flight by flight basis especially when it is amortized over 150 people and a hell of lot less when amortized over 400 people.

Image


Source:
https://people.hofstra.edu/geotrans/eng ... costs.html

_________________
Duco Ergo Sum

Link to ZS Hall of Fame Forum
ImageImageImage


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 1:22 pm 
Offline
* * * * *
User avatar

Joined: Sun Apr 05, 2009 11:58 pm
Posts: 3633
Has thanked: 1387 times
Been thanked: 446 times
raptor wrote:
The savings of elimination two pilots is not going to save a lot on flight by flight basis especially when it is amortized over 150 people and a hell of lot less when amortized over 400 people.


I agree the pilots alone aren't the biggest factor although they have high salaries. I would add that baggage handling, food delivery and other services can also be facing inroads by AI

_________________
Most of my adventures are on my blog http://suntothenorth.blogspot.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
My Introduction With Pictures: http://zombiehunters.org/forum/viewtopi ... 10&t=79019" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Graduated with honors from kit porn university


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 1:37 pm 
Offline
ZS Moderator
ZS Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Sun Mar 04, 2007 10:18 pm
Posts: 15571
Location: Greater New Orleans Area
Has thanked: 808 times
Been thanked: 459 times
teotwaki wrote:
raptor wrote:
The savings of elimination two pilots is not going to save a lot on flight by flight basis especially when it is amortized over 150 people and a hell of lot less when amortized over 400 people.


I agree the pilots alone aren't the biggest factor although they have high salaries. I would add that baggage handling, food delivery and other services can also be facing inroads by AI


I agree.

However two very large costs that are not facing imminent automation is the the cost of an A&P mechanic that keeps the plane flying and performs the routine R&M as well as the full engine overhauls.

That and flight attendants on passenger planes are not going away anytime soon. Contrary to popular belief they really are there for safety during an emergency, not to serve food and beverages, (that and to keep people from opening the freaking doors in flight :roll: ).

_________________
Duco Ergo Sum

Link to ZS Hall of Fame Forum
ImageImageImage


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 4:20 pm 
Offline
ZS Member
ZS Member
User avatar

Joined: Mon Aug 22, 2005 2:48 am
Posts: 2713
Location: Des Moines, Iowa
Has thanked: 462 times
Been thanked: 136 times
From CNBC's website via a daily email blast that, no matter what I do, I am unable to unsubscribe from:
Quote:
Next-gen robots: The latest victims of workplace abuse

Robots must contend not just with internal flaws and bugs but with humans.
Recent introductions of robots to everyday scenarios have led people to initiate some intriguing forms of interaction.
Knightscope's security bot, for example, has been harassed by kids, painted in red lipstick and used as a canvas for graffiti artists.

Mike Juang @mikejuangnews 6 Hours Ago CNBC.com

With jobs it's oftentimes not the work that's difficult, but the people.

Take STEVE, for instance. Throughout his career he's been knocked over by drunkards, bullied by schoolkids and even sprayed with graffiti.

But STEVE is not a person. He is an autonomous security robot resembling a cross between a rocket ship and R2D2 and is officially called the K5 Security Technology Enhancement Vehicle — STEVE, for short.

Knightscope's autonomous security bot STEVE. The company recently made headlines when one of its security bots was found drowned in a shopping mall pond.
Hiccups, bugs and public failures are an inevitable part of the deployment of any tool in the real world, but robots must also be designed to account for sometimes unpredictable human interactions.

"Social robots, if they're engaged in a public sense — even in a limited public sense — the design has to include considerations for social interactions," said David Harris Smith, associate professor at McMaster University's Department of Communication Studies and Multimedia in Canada.

Smith knows this firsthand. Together with associate professor Frauke Zeller of Ryerson University in Canada — and a cadre of other scientists, artists and engineers — he developed HitchBOT, a robot designed to travel across a country by "hitching" a ride from friendly humans. Completely immobile, HitchBOT was designed with an LED "face," a hitchhiking thumb and the ability to respond to simple voice questions. Creator Frauke Zeller said she wanted to create the impression that HitchBOT "is a helpless robot and challenge people to become active and engaged."

The HitchBOT experiment came to an end after the bot was found dismembered and destroyed in a Philadelphia alley. With the dawn of the everyday robot age, destruction is a necessary part of creation.

"In terms of designing these robots, we have to take a step back and have people decide," said Zeller. The key question is how — or if — we actually want to live with robots in our midst.

"We're really dealing with some deep-seated cognitive processes when we start mixing humans and robots," Smith said. Humans empathize with less-capable creatures and conversely fear hyper-capable creatures, epitomized by pop-culture robots like Terminators and even Transformers. Designing friendlier robots requires an element of what is called participatory design.

"If it's gonna be in the context of engaging with human co-workers ... there needs to be some kind of co-design in their spec, and that affects how it will fit in," Smith said.

Knightscope recently made headlines when one of its security bots was found drowned in a shopping mall pond — slippery surfaces had prevented the K5 from detecting stairs leading to the recessed water. But the company — whose machines are designed to supplement rather than supplant human security guards, and take care of monotonous tasks like scanning license plates in a parking lot — also has a closer view than most of the emerging and unpredictable world of robot-people interactions. The Knightscope bot was designed to be a "really smart eyes and ears that are mobile in nature," but because the robots occupy such a public role, problems sometimes arise not with the machines but with the humans.

"People have tried to tag [the robot] or put graffiti on it," said Knightscope CEO William Santana Li. "We have some machines that literally have bright red lipstick on them," Li said.

Humans would sometimes see the robots and try to kiss, hug and ultimately hold on to them, a scenario no testing could ever have prepared the robot for. "You and your teammates and all the technical staff would not have sat in the conference room and said, 'Hey, we need to come up with a hug test,'" Li said.

As in the case of HitchBOT's demise, Knightscope robots have been subject to abuse. A robot assigned to patrol the outside of a library would be swarmed with kids that would try to play with the robot, blocking its path and even forming a human chain surrounding it. Li said the solution to that problem ended up being more psychological than technical. Knightscope programmed the robot to simply stop.

"Do nothing, turn off the sound, turn off the lights, and just sit there. And guess what, after a couple minutes it stops and the kids go away."

— By Mike Juang, special to CNBC.com

_________________
Matthew Paul Malloy
Veteran: USAR, USA, IAANG.

Dragon Savers!
Golden Dragons!
Tropic Lightning!
Duty! Honor! Country!


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 5:11 pm 
Offline
* * *
User avatar

Joined: Mon Feb 21, 2011 12:20 am
Posts: 633
Has thanked: 49 times
Been thanked: 50 times
I wonder if tickets for flights with air-breathing pilots will cost more... Kind of an indulgence for the ultra-rich?

_________________
Shiney side out... Shiney side out...


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 9:24 pm 
Offline
* * * * *
User avatar

Joined: Sun Apr 05, 2009 11:58 pm
Posts: 3633
Has thanked: 1387 times
Been thanked: 446 times
MPMalloy wrote:
From CNBC's website via a daily email blast that, no matter what I do, I am unable to unsubscribe from



It is a 'bot out to get you. There is no escape.....

_________________
Most of my adventures are on my blog http://suntothenorth.blogspot.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
My Introduction With Pictures: http://zombiehunters.org/forum/viewtopi ... 10&t=79019" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Graduated with honors from kit porn university


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 9:27 pm 
Offline
ZS Member
ZS Member
User avatar

Joined: Mon Aug 22, 2005 2:48 am
Posts: 2713
Location: Des Moines, Iowa
Has thanked: 462 times
Been thanked: 136 times
teotwaki wrote:
MPMalloy wrote:
From CNBC's website via a daily email blast that, no matter what I do, I am unable to unsubscribe from
It is a 'bot out to get you. There is no escape.....

Robots, AI, bots, drones......ALL FUCKIN' SCUM!!!!

_________________
Matthew Paul Malloy
Veteran: USAR, USA, IAANG.

Dragon Savers!
Golden Dragons!
Tropic Lightning!
Duty! Honor! Country!


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 10:02 am 
Offline
* * * * *
User avatar

Joined: Sun Apr 05, 2009 11:58 pm
Posts: 3633
Has thanked: 1387 times
Been thanked: 446 times
MPMalloy wrote:
Robots, AI, bots, drones......ALL FUCKIN' SCUM!!!!


Dogs hate robots too!


_________________
Most of my adventures are on my blog http://suntothenorth.blogspot.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
My Introduction With Pictures: http://zombiehunters.org/forum/viewtopi ... 10&t=79019" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Graduated with honors from kit porn university


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 10:39 am 
Offline
ZS Member
ZS Member
User avatar

Joined: Mon Aug 22, 2005 2:48 am
Posts: 2713
Location: Des Moines, Iowa
Has thanked: 462 times
Been thanked: 136 times
teotwaki wrote:
MPMalloy wrote:
Robots, AI, bots, drones......ALL FUCKIN' SCUM!!!!


Dogs hate robots too!


The real dog won.

_________________
Matthew Paul Malloy
Veteran: USAR, USA, IAANG.

Dragon Savers!
Golden Dragons!
Tropic Lightning!
Duty! Honor! Country!


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 1:08 pm 
Offline
* * * * *
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2012 10:08 am
Posts: 2573
Location: Coastal SC
Has thanked: 268 times
Been thanked: 293 times
Explains the dogs in the Terminator movie franchise barking at them.

_________________
jnathan wrote:
Since we lost some posts due to some database work I'll just put this here for posterity.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 3:45 pm 
Offline
* * * * *
User avatar

Joined: Sun Dec 01, 2013 12:30 am
Posts: 1534
Has thanked: 219 times
Been thanked: 347 times
teotwaki wrote:
MPMalloy wrote:
From CNBC's website via a daily email blast that, no matter what I do, I am unable to unsubscribe from



It is a 'bot out to get you. There is no escape.....

Image
THANK YOU MIS TER MAL LOY FOR YOUR RE QUEST TO UN SUB SCRIBE FROM THE MAIL ING LIST BUT WE ARE UN A BLE TO COM PLY WITH THE RE QUES TED ACT ION AT THIS TIME 01010100 01000001 01010010 01000111 01000101 01010100 00100000 01000011 01001111 01010010 01000100 01001001 01001110 01000001 01010100 01000101 01010011 00100000 01100001 01100011 01110001 01110101 01101001 01110011 01101001 01110100 01101001 01101111 01101110 00100000 01000011 01001111 01001101 01010000 01001100 01000101 01010100 01000101

_________________
As of now I bet you got me wrong


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 3:47 pm 
Offline
ZS Moderator
ZS Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Sun Mar 04, 2007 10:18 pm
Posts: 15571
Location: Greater New Orleans Area
Has thanked: 808 times
Been thanked: 459 times
flybynight wrote:
teotwaki wrote:
MPMalloy wrote:
From CNBC's website via a daily email blast that, no matter what I do, I am unable to unsubscribe from



It is a 'bot out to get you. There is no escape.....


01010100 01000001 01010010 01000111 01000101 01010100 00100000 01000011 01001111 01010010 01000100 01001001 01001110 01000001 01010100 01000101 01010011 00100000 01100001 01100011 01110001 01110101 01101001 01110011 01101001 01110100 01101001 01101111 01101110 00100000 01000011 01001111 01001101 01010000 01001100 01000101 01010100 01000101



I see what you did there. :lol:

_________________
Duco Ergo Sum

Link to ZS Hall of Fame Forum
ImageImageImage


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 4:38 pm 
Offline
* * * *
User avatar

Joined: Mon Feb 12, 2007 3:48 pm
Posts: 815
Location: Northern California
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 53 times
From burger flipper to Dr House M.D., Skynet is coming for our jobs -


Want a Diagnosis Tomorrow, Not Next Year? Turn to AI
https://www.wired.com/story/ai-that-wil ... =social_fb

Quote:
The online system, known as the Human Diagnosis Project, allows primary care doctors to plug into a collective medical superintelligence, helping them order tests or prescribe medications they’d otherwise have to outsource. Which means most of the time, Nundy’s patients wait days, not months, to get answers and get on with their lives.

In the not-too-distant future, that could be the standard of care for all 30 million people currently uninsured or on Medicaid. On Thursday, Human Dx announced a partnership with seven of the country’s top medical institutions to scale up the project, aiming to recruit 100,000 specialists—and their expert assessments—in the next five years. Their goal: close the specialty care gap for 3 million Americans by 2022.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 4:47 pm 
Offline
* * * * *
User avatar

Joined: Sun Apr 05, 2009 11:58 pm
Posts: 3633
Has thanked: 1387 times
Been thanked: 446 times
I might surrender to that Bot

flybynight wrote:
Image
THANK YOU MIS TER MAL LOY FOR YOUR RE QUEST TO UN SUB SCRIBE FROM THE MAIL ING LIST BUT WE ARE UN A BLE TO COM PLY WITH THE RE QUES TED ACT ION AT THIS TIME 01010100 01000001 01010010 01000111 01000101 01010100 00100000 01000011 01001111 01010010 01000100 01001001 01001110 01000001 01010100 01000101 01010011 00100000 01100001 01100011 01110001 01110101 01101001 01110011 01101001 01110100 01101001 01101111 01101110 00100000 01000011 01001111 01001101 01010000 01001100 01000101 01010100 01000101


another message :mrgreen:

01010100 01101000 01100101 00100000 01110001 01110101 01101001 01100011 01101011 00100000 01110011 01101001 01101100 01110110 01100101 01110010 00100000 01100010 01101111 01110100 00100000 01101010 01110101 01101101 01110000 01110011 00100000 01101111 01110110 01100101 01110010 00100000 01101100 01100001 01111010 01111001 00100000 01011010 01010011 00100000 01101101 01100101 01101101 01100010 01100101 01110010 01110011 00001101 00001010

_________________
Most of my adventures are on my blog http://suntothenorth.blogspot.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
My Introduction With Pictures: http://zombiehunters.org/forum/viewtopi ... 10&t=79019" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Graduated with honors from kit porn university


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Fri Aug 11, 2017 9:46 pm 
Offline
ZS Member
ZS Member
User avatar

Joined: Mon Aug 22, 2005 2:48 am
Posts: 2713
Location: Des Moines, Iowa
Has thanked: 462 times
Been thanked: 136 times
From the CNBC website via Twitter: Elon Musk issues a stark warning about A.I., calls it a bigger threat than North Korea
Quote:
Tesla CEO Elon Musk fired off a new and ominous warning on Friday about artificial intelligence, suggesting the emerging technology poses an even greater risk to the world than a nuclear conflagration with North Korea.

Musk—a fierce and long time critic of A.I. who once likened it to "summoning the demon" in a horror movie—said in a Twitter post that people should be concerned about the rise of the machines than they are.

"If you're not concerned about AI, you should be. Vastly more risk than North Korea"
Reacting to the news that autonomous tech had bested competitive players in an electronic sports competition, Musk posted what appeared to be a photo of a poster bearing the chilling words "In the end, the machines will win."

Musk, who is spearheading commercial space travel with his venture SpaceX, is also the founder of OpenAI, a nonprofit that promotes the "safe" development of AI. His stance puts him at odds with much of the tech industry, but echoes remarks of prominent voices like Stephen Hawking—who has also issued dire warnings about machine learning.

"Nobody likes being regulated, but everything (cars, planes, food, drugs, etc) that's a danger to the public is regulated. AI should be too."

_________________
Matthew Paul Malloy
Veteran: USAR, USA, IAANG.

Dragon Savers!
Golden Dragons!
Tropic Lightning!
Duty! Honor! Country!


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Fri Aug 18, 2017 6:55 pm 
Offline
ZS Member
ZS Member
User avatar

Joined: Mon Aug 22, 2005 2:48 am
Posts: 2713
Location: Des Moines, Iowa
Has thanked: 462 times
Been thanked: 136 times
From the NPR website: Is AI More Threatening Than North Korean Missiles?
Quote:
Is AI More Threatening Than North Korean Missiles? August 18, 2017 12:52 PM ET By Alva Noë

One of Tesla CEO Elon Musk's companies, the nonprofit start-up OpenAI, manufactures a device that last week was victorious in defeating some of the world's top gamers in an international video game (e-sport) tournament with a multi-million-dollar pot of prize money.

We're getting very good, it seems, at making machines that can outplay us at our favorite pastimes. Machines dominate Go, Jeopardy, Chess and — as of now — at least some video games.

Instead of crowing over the win, though, Musk is sounding the alarm. Artificial Intelligence, or AI, he argued last week, poses a far greater risk to us now than even North Korean warheads.

No doubt Musk's latest pronouncements make for good advertising copy. What better way to drum up interest in a product than to announce that, well, it has the power to destroy the world.

But is it true? Is AI a greater threat to mankind than the threat posed to us today by an openly hostile, well-armed and manifestly unstable enemy?

AI means, at least, three things.

First, it means machines that are faster, stronger and smarter than us, machines that may one day soon, HAL-like, come to make their own decisions and make up their own values and, so, even to rule over us, just as we rule over the cows. This is a very scary thought, not the least when you consider how we have ruled over the cows.

Second, AI means really good machines for doing stuff. I used to have a coffee machine that I'd set with a timer before going to bed; in the morning I'd wake up to the smell of fresh coffee. My coffee maker was a smart, or at least smart-ish, device. Most of the smart technologies, the AIs, in our phones, and airplanes, and cars, and software programs — including the ones winning tournaments — are pretty much like this. Only more so. They are vastly more complicated and reliable but they are, finally, only smart-ish. The fact that some of these new systems "learn," and that they come to be able to do things that their makers cannot do — like win at Go or Dota — is really beside the point. A steam hammer can do what John Henry can't but, in the end, the steam hammer doesn't really do anything.

Third, AI is a research program. I don't mean a program in high-tech engineering. I mean, rather, a program investigating the nature of the mind itself. In 1950, the great mathematician Alan Turing published a paper in a philosophy journal in which he argued that by the year 2000 we would find it entirely natural to speak of machines as intelligent. But more significantly, working as a mathematician, he had devised a formal system for investigating the nature of computation that showed, as philosopher Daniel Dennett puts it in his recent book, that you can get competence (the ability to solve problems) without comprehension (by merely following blind rules mechanically). It was not long before philosopher Hilary Putnam would hypothesize the mind is a Turing Machine (and a Turning Machine just is, for all intents and purposes, what we call a computer today). And, thus, the circle closes. To study computational minds is to study our minds, and to build an AI is, finally, to try to reverse engineer ourselves.

Now, Type 3 AI, this research program, is alive and well and a continuing chapter in our intellectual history that is of genuine excitement and importance. This, even though the original hypothesis of Putnam is wildly implausible (and was given up by Putnam decades ago). To give just one example: the problem of the inputs and the outputs. A Turning Machine works by performing operations on inputs. For example, it might erase a 1 on a cell of its tape and replace it with a 0. The whole method depends on being able to give a formal specification of a finite number of inputs and outputs. We can see how that goes for 1s and 0s. But what are the inputs, and what are the outputs, for a living animal, let alone a human being? Can we give a finite list, and specify its items in formal terms, of everything we can perceive, let alone, do?

And there are other problems, too. To mention only one: We don't understand how the brain works. And this means that we don't know that the brain functions, in any sense other than metaphorical, like a computer.

Type 1 AI, the nightmare of machine dominance, is just that, a nightmare, or maybe (for the capitalists making the gizmos) a fantasy. Depending on what we learn pursuing the philosophy of AI, and as luminaries like John Searle and the late Hubert Dreyfus have long argued, it may be an impossible fiction.

Whatever our view on this, there can be no doubt that the advent of smart, rather than smart-ish, machines, the sort of machines that might actually do something intelligent on their own initiative, is a long way off. Centuries off. The threat of nuclear war with North Korea is both more likely and more immediate than this.

Which does not mean, though, that there is not in fact real cause for alarm posed by AI. But if so, we need to turn our attention to Type 2 AI: the smart-ish technologies that are everywhere in our world today. The danger here is not posed by the technologies themselves. They aren't out to get us. They are not going to be out to get us any time soon. The danger, rather, is our increasing dependence on them. We have created a technosphere in which we are beholden to technologies and processes that we do not understand. I don't mean you and me, that we don't understand: No one person can understand. It's all gotten too complicated. It takes a whole team — or maybe a university — to understand adequately all the mechanisms, for example, that enable air traffic control, or drug manufacture, or the successful production and maintenance of satellites, or the electricity grid, not to mention your car.

Now this is not a bad thing in itself. We are not isolated individuals all alone and we never have been. We are a social animal — and it is fine and good that we should depend on each other and on our collective.

But are we rising to the occasion? Are we tending our collective? Are we educating our children and organizing our means of production to keep ourselves safe and self-reliant and moving forward? Are we taking on the challenges that, to some degree, are of our own making? How to feed 7 billion people in a rapidly warming world?

Or have we settled? Too many of us, I fear, have taken up a "user" attitude to the gear of our world. We are passive consumers. Like the child who thinks chickens come from supermarkets, we are hopelessly alienated from how things work.

And if we are, then what are we going to do if some clever young person some where — maybe a young lady in North Korea — writes a program to turn things off? This is a serious and immediate pressing danger.

Alva Noë is a philosopher at the University of California, Berkeley, where he writes and teaches about perception, consciousness and art. He is the author of several books, including his latest, Strange Tools: Art and Human Nature (Farrar, Straus and Giroux, 2015). You can keep up with more of what Alva is thinking on Facebook and on Twitter: @alvanoe

_________________
Matthew Paul Malloy
Veteran: USAR, USA, IAANG.

Dragon Savers!
Golden Dragons!
Tropic Lightning!
Duty! Honor! Country!


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Fri Aug 18, 2017 7:00 pm 
Offline
* * * * *
User avatar

Joined: Sun Apr 05, 2009 11:58 pm
Posts: 3633
Has thanked: 1387 times
Been thanked: 446 times
MPMalloy wrote:
....... First, it means machines that are faster, stronger and smarter than us, machines that may one day soon, HAL-like, come to make their own decisions and make up their own values and, so, even to rule over us, just as we rule over the cows. This is a very scary thought, not the least when you consider how we have ruled over the cows.


Dem ol' cowz? I've puzzled out dey be reddi for us....


_________________
Most of my adventures are on my blog http://suntothenorth.blogspot.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
My Introduction With Pictures: http://zombiehunters.org/forum/viewtopi ... 10&t=79019" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Graduated with honors from kit porn university


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Fri Aug 18, 2017 7:19 pm 
Offline
ZS Member
ZS Member
User avatar

Joined: Mon Aug 22, 2005 2:48 am
Posts: 2713
Location: Des Moines, Iowa
Has thanked: 462 times
Been thanked: 136 times
Thanks teotwaki. I needed that. :D

_________________
Matthew Paul Malloy
Veteran: USAR, USA, IAANG.

Dragon Savers!
Golden Dragons!
Tropic Lightning!
Duty! Honor! Country!


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2017 11:53 am 
Offline
ZS Member
ZS Member
User avatar

Joined: Mon Aug 22, 2005 2:48 am
Posts: 2713
Location: Des Moines, Iowa
Has thanked: 462 times
Been thanked: 136 times
From the CNBC website: 'Horrific things are likely' from killer robots and other tech, investor Roger McNamee says
Quote:
'Horrific things are likely' from killer robots and other tech, investor Roger McNamee says

Tesla's Musk was among the signatories of an open letter to the United Nations Convention on Certain Conventional Weapons.

The letter warns against autonomous weapons that could be used for terror, by despots, or hacked to kill people at a larger and faster scale than ever.

The letter comes on the heels of terror attacks in Barcelona last week, and a deadly attack at a rally in Charlottesville, Virginia. Both were carried out, in part, by driving cars into a crowd.

Anita Balakrishnan | @MsABalakrishnan Published 10 Mins Ago | Updated 2 Mins Ago CNBC.com

What is the appropriate role of of technology: McNamee on Musk letter to ban killer robots 1 Hour Ago | 02:42

Artificial intelligence experts, including Tesla's Elon Musk, have spoken out against the development of autonomous robots with the power to kill.

There's already evidence that major technology companies are losing control of the ways that bad people can use their products, technology investor Roger McNamee told CNBC's "Squawk Alley" on Monday.

"I think what Elon's talking about here is that once you start applying automated technology to weaponry, horrific things are likely," McNamee said. "And I suspect that that is true. The point I would make is that I think bad things are already happening."

Musk was among the signatories of an open letter to the United Nations Convention on Certain Conventional Weapons. The letter warns against autonomous weapons that could be used for terror, by despots, or hacked to kill people at a larger and faster scale than ever.

The letter comes on the heels of terror attacks in Barcelona last week, and a deadly attack at a rally in Charlottesville, Virginia. Both were carried out, in part, by driving cars into a crowd.

"Think about this with automobiles. We never thought of automobiles as terrorist weapons. But once you start applying them that way, they're really terrifying," McNamee said. "And I think that's the issue.... it's going to be super hard to control how bad people use that technology once it's developed. Bad people are unlikely to observe the rules. There's a lot of history suggesting that fear is legitimate."

McNamee is managing director at Elevation Partners, a firm that has invested in companies like Yelp and Facebook. But McNamee recently said he regrets the effects that Facebook and Google have had on society.

"Those companies, in many ways, have lost control," McNamee said. "And that a lot of really difficult, bad things are going on in terms of addiction, in terms of what happens in our election and Brexit. You look at these things and you say to yourself, 'It's really time for the country to step back and have a conversation about: What is the appropriate role of technology? What are the limits to what we're going to allow people to do? And how are we going to make sure that society — jobs, people, and livelihoods — are protected?'"

McNamee agrees with Musk and other scientists that it will be difficult to relegate robots to shooting only at other robots. McNamee also urged Musk and other technology leaders to extend their activism to technologies that are doing harm "here and now." Facebook, Tesla and Google were not immediately available to comment on McNamee's comments.

"We have in this country had, at least for the last 10 or 15 years, an almost irrational belief that technology always winds up doing good," McNamee said. "And the reality is, it's a lot easier to do bad things with technology than it is to do good. To do good takes tremendous discipline and effort over long periods of time. And you can do bad more or less overnight."

Anita Balakrishnan News Associate

_________________
Matthew Paul Malloy
Veteran: USAR, USA, IAANG.

Dragon Savers!
Golden Dragons!
Tropic Lightning!
Duty! Honor! Country!


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2017 4:29 pm 
Offline
* * * * *
User avatar

Joined: Fri Feb 19, 2010 2:25 am
Posts: 3799
Location: Jackson, KY
Has thanked: 36 times
Been thanked: 55 times
MPMalloy wrote:


A thought that keeps me awake at night sometimes is the thought that some bad actor would strap explosives to a bunch of drones and swarm-attack a big event with them. The really scary thought is that eventually someone will at least attempt it, and there's theoretically nothing preventing an attempt today.

_________________
vyadmirer wrote:
Call me the paranoid type, but remember I'm on a post apocalyptic website prepared for zombies.

Fleet #: ZS 0180

Browncoat

Imma Fudd, and proud of it.

ZS Wiki


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2017 5:05 pm 
Offline
ZS Member
ZS Member
User avatar

Joined: Mon Aug 22, 2005 2:48 am
Posts: 2713
Location: Des Moines, Iowa
Has thanked: 462 times
Been thanked: 136 times
DarkAxel wrote:
MPMalloy wrote:


A thought that keeps me awake at night sometimes is the thought that some bad actor would strap explosives to a bunch of drones and swarm-attack a big event with them. The really scary thought is that eventually someone will at least attempt it, and there's theoretically nothing preventing an attempt today.

Low-tech. Inexpensive. Effective terror weapon. :cry:

_________________
Matthew Paul Malloy
Veteran: USAR, USA, IAANG.

Dragon Savers!
Golden Dragons!
Tropic Lightning!
Duty! Honor! Country!


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Fri Aug 25, 2017 5:59 am 
Offline
* * * * *
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2012 10:08 am
Posts: 2573
Location: Coastal SC
Has thanked: 268 times
Been thanked: 293 times
Another job taken by the robots.

http://www.foxnews.com/tech/2017/08/25/ ... riest.html

Quote:
SoftBank's Pepper robot is now a Buddhist priest

There are industry gatherings for all sectors, and that includes the funeral sector. It's not an area where you'd expect to find many tech products, but at the Tokyo International Funeral & Cemetery Show 2017 this week, all eyes were on the latest breakthrough in Buddhist priests.

Hiring a human Buddhist priest for a funeral in Japan costs around $2,200. That's very expensive, so plastic molding company Nissei Eco Co. had an idea: create a robotic Buddhist priest and undercut the real thing on price. And rather than starting from scratch, Nissei instead modified an existing robot in the form of SoftBank's Pepper robot.

As Hannah Gould, a researcher at the Japan Foundation, points out in the video above, Japan and technology have been evolving at the same time so a robot priest won't seem too weird. All Nissei had to do to modify the Pepper robot was write some software allowing it to tap the drums while it chanted.

The cost of this Buddhist Pepper robot is going to be around $450 per funeral, so just a quarter of the real priest price. I also suspect it will make less mistakes. But according to Reuters, the robot has yet to be hired for a real funeral. Unlike human priests, Pepper isn't going to be at all upset about it, though.

Before becoming a priest, SoftBank designed Pepper to be a human-shaped robot meant for day-to-day companionship capable of recognizing human emotions. Most of that functionality is probably still present in the priest models, meaning they may do well chatting with relatives of the deceased after the funeral.

_________________
jnathan wrote:
Since we lost some posts due to some database work I'll just put this here for posterity.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 534 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23  Next

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group