Robot Uprising - Or, what to do when AI Does All The Jobs

Discuss those "what if" or "what would you do" scenarios you've been wondering about.

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Re: Robot Uprising - Or, what to do when AI Does All The Job

Post by flybynight » Fri Jun 09, 2017 4:08 pm

teotwaki wrote:
flybynight wrote:Unless of course your BOV in the desert ,picture stories begin to resemble this
Image

My friend, I can say "been there, done that" :mrgreen:

Image
So that's you in the front?
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Re: Robot Uprising - Or, what to do when AI Does All The Job

Post by teotwaki » Fri Jun 09, 2017 5:18 pm

flybynight wrote: ImageSo that's you in the front?
Yes, the smallish, dull looking Mars-y red rock
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Re: Robot Uprising - Or, what to do when AI Does All The Job

Post by Stercutus » Fri Jun 09, 2017 5:20 pm

PASADENA, CA—NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory scientists overseeing the ongoing Mars Exploration Rover Mission said Monday that the Spirit's latest transmissions could indicate a growing resentment of the Red Planet.

"Spirit has been displaying some anomalous behavior," said Project Manager John Callas, who noted the rover's unsuccessful attempts to flip itself over and otherwise damage its scientific instruments. "And the thousand or so daily messages of 'STILL NO WATER' really point to a crisis of purpose."
More at link.

http://www.theonion.com/article/mars-ro ... -mars-2072
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Re: Robot Uprising - Or, what to do when AI Does All The Job

Post by teotwaki » Fri Jun 09, 2017 5:41 pm

Image
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Re: Robot Uprising - Or, what to do when AI Does All The Job

Post by flybynight » Fri Jun 09, 2017 5:48 pm

Is this a first? I don't recall any of our threads drifting so far as another planet. :clap:
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Re: Robot Uprising - Or, what to do when AI Does All The Job

Post by JeeperCreeper » Fri Jun 09, 2017 6:11 pm

flybynight wrote:Is this a first? I don't recall any of our threads drifting so far as another planet. :clap:
Well, since we're talking about it... if there ever is a martian invasion, I think we'll be fighting their robots instead of the aliens...
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Re: Robot Uprising - Or, what to do when AI Does All The Job

Post by RickOShea » Fri Jun 09, 2017 6:12 pm

flybynight wrote:Is this a first? I don't recall any of our threads drifting so far as another planet. :clap:
I don't guess this counts....since it starts on another planet.

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Re: Robot Uprising - Or, what to do when AI Does All The Job

Post by MPMalloy » Fri Jun 09, 2017 6:25 pm

JeeperCreeper wrote:
flybynight wrote:Is this a first? I don't recall any of our threads drifting so far as another planet. :clap:
Well, since we're talking about it... if there ever is a martian invasion, I think we'll be fighting their robots instead of the aliens...
Falling skies was a cool show. I stopped following it after the second season. How did things turn out?
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Re: Robot Uprising - Or, what to do when AI Does All The Job

Post by Stercutus » Fri Jun 09, 2017 6:36 pm

MPMalloy wrote:
JeeperCreeper wrote:
flybynight wrote:Is this a first? I don't recall any of our threads drifting so far as another planet. :clap:
Well, since we're talking about it... if there ever is a martian invasion, I think we'll be fighting their robots instead of the aliens...
Falling skies was a cool show. I stopped following it after the second season. How did things turn out?
Humanity had a new Christ savior martyr.
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Re: Robot Uprising - Or, what to do when AI Does All The Job

Post by MPMalloy » Sun Jun 11, 2017 6:40 pm

From the Oil & Energy Insider - OilPrice Intelligence Report:
BP has invested $20 million in a startup with 20 years of experience in artificial intelligence. Beyond Limits, which has a long history of working with NASA on developing tech solutions to be used in space, has now turned to Earth to focus on developing AI solutions for a range of industries, beginning with oil and gas. According to BP, its partnership with the AI developer will completely change how exploration, production, and refining are done. According to Beyond Limits, the company will aim to create software that can think like a human and “augment human capability.” In fact, the company will be adapting its space solutions to the oil and gas industry, improving not just exploration results but also decision-making. Effectively, the news represents perhaps the first major foray of AI in oil and gas, as the industry begins to increasingly open up not just to automation and enhanced-efficiency technology but also big data and, now, artificial intelligence. The energy industry has been notorious for refusing to join the digital revolution that has engulfed most other industries but its adoption of cutting-edge tech was only a matter of time: when the global business environment undergoes a transformation as fundamental as digital, it’s impossible for any industry to not be affected at all. This is all the more true given the possibilities that technology offers oil and gas businesses: better exploration results, closer to optimal production costs and safer operations. What’s not to like about that?
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Re: Robot Uprising - Or, what to do when AI Does All The Job

Post by Dabster » Thu Jun 15, 2017 11:14 am

Shiney side out... Shiney side out...

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Re: Robot Uprising - Or, what to do when AI Does All The Job

Post by Stercutus » Thu Jun 15, 2017 11:23 am

Teenagers don't work at fast food places anymore. It is mostly drug addicts. That is why they want $15/ hr. That is why the robot will kick their ass. At minimum wage they have a job, make it cost more than a robot and you are done.
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Re: Robot Uprising - Or, what to do when AI Does All The Job

Post by flybynight » Thu Jun 15, 2017 11:39 am

Stercutus wrote:
Teenagers don't work at fast food places anymore. It is mostly drug addicts. That is why they want $15/ hr. That is why the robot will kick their ass. At minimum wage they have a job, make it cost more than a robot and you are done.
So we not only have to worry about robots taking over but they will be drug addicts too? Image
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Re: Robot Uprising - Or, what to do when AI Does All The Job

Post by ZombieGranny » Thu Jun 15, 2017 11:43 am

Removed serious post from apparent joke thread.
Last edited by ZombieGranny on Mon Jul 10, 2017 9:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Robot Uprising - Or, what to do when AI Does All The Job

Post by flybynight » Thu Jun 15, 2017 11:55 am

ZombieGranny wrote:I never see anyone who looks much like a drug addict working down at our fast food places.
Teenagers, single mothers and retirees mostly.
I'm so glad I live here and not where you live, the people seem so much nicer here.
Me too... Stercutus says they don't even wear clothes on game day... .
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Re: Robot Uprising - Or, what to do when AI Does All The Job

Post by teotwaki » Thu Jun 15, 2017 12:39 pm

flybynight wrote:
ZombieGranny wrote:I never see anyone who looks much like a drug addict working down at our fast food places.
Teenagers, single mothers and retirees mostly.
I'm so glad I live here and not where you live, the people seem so much nicer here.
Me too... Stercutus says they don't even wear clothes on game day... .

That is why he keeps a machine gun handy. Less painful than bleaching his own eyes out. :rofl:
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Re: Robot Uprising - Or, what to do when AI Does All The Job

Post by Stercutus » Thu Jun 15, 2017 1:35 pm

ZombieGranny wrote:I never see anyone who looks much like a drug addict working down at our fast food places.
Teenagers, single mothers and retirees mostly.
I'm so glad I live here and not where you live, the people seem so much nicer here.
I don't "see" anyone who looks like a drug addict either. I guess I should have been more specific. In any case I'll leave everyone to their illusions. It's one of those things you can't unsee.
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Re: Robot Uprising - Or, what to do when AI Does All The Job

Post by ZombieGranny » Thu Jun 15, 2017 3:53 pm

Removed serious post from apparent joke thread.
Last edited by ZombieGranny on Mon Jul 10, 2017 9:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Robot Uprising - Or, what to do when AI Does All The Job

Post by Stercutus » Thu Jun 15, 2017 4:34 pm

ZombieGranny wrote:You were specific.
You said "Teenagers don't work at fast food places anymore. It is mostly drug addicts."
One of the many perks of living in/near a small town is knowing many of the workers outside of the job.

However on this, as on many other things, we can agree to disagree.
"more specific"
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Re: Robot Uprising - Or, what to do when AI Does All The Job

Post by MPMalloy » Fri Jun 16, 2017 3:49 pm

From the CNBC website via CNBC Evening Brief:

http://www.cnbc.com/2017/06/16/ai-assau ... eningbrief
IBM's Watson supercomputer is getting into Wall Street stock-picking
  • IBM's Watson artificial intelligence platform has been hired to help pick stocks for a new ETF.
    Algorithm-driven investing has beaten many human stock pickers in recent years.
    The world's largest money manager, BlackRock, recently decided to supplement, if not supplant, its human portfolio managers with AI software for many funds.
Eric Rosenbaum | @erprose 4 Hours Ago CNBC.com

As the robot war on Wall Street stock pickers heats up, there's a new line of attack from the algorithmic set: IBM's Watson supercomputer has been hired to help run an ETF and pick stocks than can achieve better performance than the broad U.S. stock market index.

The ETF, called the Equbot with Watson AI Total US ETF, has been filed for by ETF Managers Group, which works with a number of ETF subadvisers to bring new investing ideas into the market, and already has launched big data, cybersecurity, drone and immunotherapy funds, among others.

The Watson ETF's approach to picking stocks is described in the filing with the Securities and Exchange Commission as "actively managed" and "based on the results of a proprietary, quantitative model (the "Equbot Model") developed by Equbot LLC ("Equbot") with Watson."

Equbot, the Fund's sub-advisor, is a technology-based company focused on applying artificial intelligence to investment analyses. It is part of the IBM Global Entrepreneurs start-up roster. IBM already has a Watson effort for financial services more broadly, which includes a Watson analytical tool for wealth advisors and wealth management groups, and Watson applications for financial markets analysis.

The filing says Equbot will use IBM's Watson AI to perform a fundamental analysis of U.S.-listed stocks and real estate investment trusts based on up to 10 years of historical data and then apply that analysis to recent economic and news data.

"Each day, the Equbot Model ranks each company based on the probability of the company benefiting from current economic conditions, trends and world events and identifies approximately 30 to 70 companies with the greatest potential for appreciation and their corresponding weights, while maintaining volatility comparable to the broader U.S. equity market."

One of the most successful examples of algorithmic stock-picking in the history of Wall Street is hedge fund titan Robert Mercer, co-CEO of Renaissance Technologies, one of the most profitable hedge funds in the world. Mercer came to Renaissance in 1993 from IBM, where the computer engineer did pioneering work on using computers to review massive amounts of text and then use predictive analytics to translate between languages, an algorithm that laid the groundwork for Google Translate and Apple's Siri.

"The trend with ETF product development is toward quantitative efforts following predetermined rules to ensure consistency. It seems logical that more efforts will involve computer programming going forward using back-tested tools," said Todd Rosenbluth, director of mutual fund and ETF research at CFRA.

Larry Fink: We are not substituting machines for human Thursday, 6 Apr 2017 | 6:31 AM ET | 02:54

Neena Mishra, director of ETF research at Zacks Investment Research, said she likes the idea, but while AI can be used to process and analyze vast amount of data much quicker than humans, sometimes the challenge lies in deciding the importance of each piece of information in the investment decision. "An investment process involving a human analyst/team of analysts, supported by strong data analytics, certainly makes sense," she said.

She also noted that the ETF's expense ratio has not been disclosed, and since it's actively managed, it could be high. "That's the main reason why I don't like most actively managed funds. Active managers' performance has been underwhelming in general and does not justify high management fees charged by them."

BlackRock, the world's largest money manager, with more than $5 trillion in assets — and owner of the iShares family of ETFs — recently decided to turn over management on many of its actively managed funds to algorithms.

In many markets, BlackRock's automated trading products have beaten indexes more consistently than human fund managers, but they suffered a hiccup in 2016. BlackRock CEO Larry Fink told CNBC in April that the professionals who had been expected to be cut would be shifted to other jobs that make more use of analytics.

In the past, BlackRock has explained that there are some tasks only a computer can do when it comes to analyzing large sets of data to make stock calls. That includes monitoring satellite data of big-box store parking lots and analyzing internet searches for consumer products to predict sales volume or even national economic growth.


Eric Rosenbaum, Editor, CNBC.com
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Re: Robot Uprising - Or, what to do when AI Does All The Job

Post by JeeperCreeper » Fri Jun 16, 2017 4:11 pm

Stercutus wrote:
ZombieGranny wrote:You were specific.
You said "Teenagers don't work at fast food places anymore. It is mostly drug addicts."
One of the many perks of living in/near a small town is knowing many of the workers outside of the job.

However on this, as on many other things, we can agree to disagree.
"more specific"
Just to throw this in there, most of my area's fast food places have a pretty rough employee selection. Just like anything, it depends on the town and which side of town... but from my experience, most teenagers look for jobs in retail and fast food is left for those who can't get jobs elsewhere... for whatever reason.

P.S. Wendy's is the best. And fast food may be the only place that I don't mind a touch screen to order since my order is wrong about 75% of the time anymore no matter where I go.
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Re: Robot Uprising - Or, what to do when AI Does All The Job

Post by MPMalloy » Fri Jun 16, 2017 5:29 pm

From the NPR website:

http://www.npr.org/sections/13.7/2017/0 ... r-autonomy
Is The Concern Artificial Intelligence — Or Autonomy? June 16, 201711:36 AM ET Commentary By Alva Noe

Computers don't have real autonomy — they don't have their own interests, like staying alive, says Alva Noe.

There's a provocative interview with the philosopher Daniel Dennett in Living on Earth.

The topic is Dennett's latest book — From Bacteria to Bach and Back: The Evolution of Minds — and his idea that Charles Darwin and Alan Turing can be credited, in a way, with the same discovery: that you don't need comprehension to achieve competence.

Darwin showed how you can get the appearance of purpose and design out of blind processes of natural selection. And Turing, one of the pioneers in the field of computation, offered evidence that any problem precise enough to be computed at all, can be computed by a mechanical device — that is, a device without an iota of insight or understanding.

But the part of the interview that particularly grabbed my attention comes at the end. Living on Earth host Steve Curwood raises the, by now, hoary worry that as AI advances, machines will come to lord over us. This is a staple of science fiction and it has recently become the focus of considerable attention among opinion-makers. (Discussion of the so-called "singularity.") Dennett acknowledges that the risk of takeover is a real one. But he says we've misunderstood it: The risk is not that machines will become autonomous and come to rule over us — the risk is, rather, that we will come to depend too much on machines.

The big problem AI faces is not the intelligence part, really. It's the autonomy part. Finally, at the end of the day, even the smartest computers are tools, our tools — and their intentions are our intentions. Or, to the extent that we can speak of their intentions at all — for example of the intention of a self-driving car to avoid an obstacle — we have in mind something it was designed to do.

Even the most primitive organism, in contrast, at least seems to have a kind of autonomy. It really has its own interests. Light. Food. Survival. Life.

The danger of our growing dependence on technologies is not really that we are losing our natural autonomy in quite this sense. Our needs are still our needs. But it is a loss of autonomy, nonetheless. Even auto mechanics these days rely on diagnostic computers and, in the era of self-driving cars, will any of us still know how to drive? Think what would happen if we lost electricity, or if the grid were really and truly hacked? We'd be thrown back into the 19th century, as Dennett says. But in many ways, things would be worse. We'd be thrown back — but without the knowledge and know-how that made it possible for our ancestors to thrive in the olden days.

I don't think this fear is unrealistic. But we need to put it in context. The truth is, we've been technological since our dawn as a species. We first find ourselves in the archaeological record precisely there where we see a great exposition of tools, technologies, art-making and also linguistic practices. In a sense, to be human is to be cyborgian — that is, a technological extended version of our merely biological selves. This suggests that at any time in our development, a large-scale breakdown in the technological infrastructure would spell not exactly our doom, but our radical reorganization.

Perhaps what makes our current predicament unprecedented is the fact that we are so densely networked. When the library of Alexandria burned down, books and, indeed, knowledge, were lost. But in a world where libraries are replaced by their online versions, it isn't inconceivable that every library could be, simply, deleted.

What happens to us then?
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Re: Robot Uprising - Or, what to do when AI Does All The Job

Post by Stercutus » Fri Jun 16, 2017 5:30 pm

JeeperCreeper wrote:
Stercutus wrote:
ZombieGranny wrote:You were specific.
You said "Teenagers don't work at fast food places anymore. It is mostly drug addicts."
One of the many perks of living in/near a small town is knowing many of the workers outside of the job.

However on this, as on many other things, we can agree to disagree.
"more specific"
Just to throw this in there, most of my area's fast food places have a pretty rough employee selection. Just like anything, it depends on the town and which side of town... but from my experience, most teenagers look for jobs in retail and fast food is left for those who can't get jobs elsewhere... for whatever reason.

P.S. Wendy's is the best. And fast food may be the only place that I don't mind a touch screen to order since my order is wrong about 75% of the time anymore no matter where I go.
The cook at our local Wendy's burglarized a gun shop here a few month ago. He made off with 57 rifles and dozens of handguns. He forgot the #1 rule of crime: "Crooks are stupid" so the whole thing was caught on video. I am sure he could cook like crazy though.
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Re: Robot Uprising - Or, what to do when AI Does All The Job

Post by flybynight » Fri Jun 16, 2017 7:51 pm

In the report, researchers at the Facebook Artificial Intelligence Research lab describe using machine learning to train their “dialog agents” to negotiate. (And it turns out bots are actually quite good at dealmaking.) At one point, the researchers write, they had to tweak one of their models because otherwise the bot-to-bot conversation “led to divergence from human language as the agents developed their own language for negotiating.” They had to use what’s called a fixed supervised model instead.


https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/ ... ge/530436/
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