It is currently Mon Dec 11, 2017 9:31 pm

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 39 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2017 1:21 pm 
Offline
ZS Member
ZS Member
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2013 4:54 pm
Posts: 164
Has thanked: 10 times
Been thanked: 34 times
Recently, an American born, American citizen, traveling with a US passport, who works for JPL (a NASA contractor) was detained at an airport coming back into the US and not allowed to leave until he unlocked his phone for them so they could copy over the information and look at his accounts. This was something he was specifically forbidden from doing by his employer, because it was a JPL issued phone which contained sensitive data.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... 77906.html

Now, I don't work for JPL or any other government contractor, but I am an American born citizen with a foreign sounding (Indian) name like the man in the article. I realize the ban is currently on hold, but it seems very possible that sometime in the future I could be in exactly the same situation trying to come back into the country, and I'm not sure what I could do. These detainees have generally not been allowed access to legal council or communication with family. So, it seems like basically my options are:

1. Setup a 'deadman switch'. Call family before I get off the plane and let them know I am about to pass through customs. If I don't call again within the hour, tell them to show up at the airport with a lawyer, protestors, and a local congressperson if they can manage it.

or:

2. Hand over all my personal information to Big Brother. This sets a bad precedent, but it would avoid an extended legal battle that would probably pretty well screw up my life.

or:

3. Stop traveling internationally. Also seems like a bad precedent.

If anyone can think of better suggestions, please let me know. This is a delicate subject to discuss on this board, as it is highly politics-adjacent. Please read twice, post once for you replies so the thread doesn't get locked. Thanks guys.


Share on FacebookShare on TwitterShare on TumblrShare on Google+
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2017 2:10 pm 
Offline
* * * * *
User avatar

Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2010 6:01 pm
Posts: 7883
Has thanked: 168 times
Been thanked: 284 times
(shrug)

I carry a cheap travel phone ($24.95) at Best Buy. I can swap the SIM in under a minute. I can make and take telephone calls while out of pocket.

I keep a minimum phone list and nothing else on the phone - this in case of theft or loss.

If you have wedded (or welded) yourself to a smart phone (or any other device for that matter) you should take a long hard look at the device and what the loss of this device would mean to you.

Otherwise, if this is something you worry over, put a self-destruct app on the phone. Last I heard, it took a warrant to search one's property.... If asked to open the device, nuke it.

Copy everything onto a mini-chip as a backup and place somewhere in your baggage.

_________________
TacAir - I'd rather be a disappointed pessimist than a horrified optimist
**All my books ** some with a different view of the "PAW". Check 'em out.
Adventures in rice storage//Mod your Esbit for better stability


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2017 2:51 pm 
Offline
* * * * *
User avatar

Joined: Thu Feb 28, 2013 10:19 pm
Posts: 2487
Location: Red River Valley
Has thanked: 310 times
Been thanked: 146 times
[twitch]

I'm not going into politics.

[squirm]

I have never flown internationally- and given the steady rise of unconstitutional search and seizures in the post 9/11 world, I will never fly internationally.

[bites tongue]

I understand that not flying isn't an option for some- but it is for me.

TacAir wrote:
(shrug)

I carry a cheap travel phone ($24.95) at Best Buy. I can swap the SIM in under a minute. I can make and take telephone calls while out of pocket.

I keep a minimum phone list and nothing else on the phone - this in case of theft or loss.

If you have wedded (or welded) yourself to a smart phone (or any other device for that matter) you should take a long hard look at the device and what the loss of this device would mean to you.

Otherwise, if this is something you worry over, put a self-destruct app on the phone. Last I heard, it took a warrant to search one's property.... If asked to open the device, nuke it.

Copy everything onto a mini-chip as a backup and place somewhere in your baggage.


How does nuking the phone fix the situation- it will only make it worse. Again, it's hard for me to play the 'what if' game on this one because I just keep saying 'it won't be me'.

_________________
"A man can get much further with a kind word and a gun together than he can with a kind word or a gun alone."
attributed to Al Capone


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2017 3:15 pm 
Offline
* * * * *
User avatar

Joined: Tue Sep 21, 2010 1:56 pm
Posts: 1244
Location: Charleston, SC
Has thanked: 282 times
Been thanked: 152 times
You're asking a few different questions, that aren't always related.
First, I AM NOT A LAWYER, AND I DONT EVEN PLAY ONE ON TV. So, take that for what it's worth.

The LEO's can 'detain' you 'temporally' for some time. Sometime up to hours depending on the officer/circumstances/investigation. **Perhaps an LEO can step in here?** All of it's legal, and a lot of it can be without council because you're not under arrest, you dont need a lawyer, right... ?

That was part 1, now from the standpoint of part 2 - Looking at this from a data only perspective, it would take a WHILE to destroy data from a phone. Ever try deleting photos or directories with a file manager? Yup, that long. A possible exception would be with a rooted phone and access to the brick command, though I'm not sure if even that'll do the job.

I've seen suggestions to encrypt the phone, and have the passkey stored on the sim card. Delete the passkey and the phone data is useless. Not sure if anyone was ever able to implement this.

Again - Rooted phone - App to override heat controls on the CPU/Battery. Rev up the Cycles and try to turn the phone/battery into a mini explosive like the latest batch of Samsung phones. (You'll probably need a lawyer after this BTW ;) )

Use an I-Phone. As much as I loath the apple fanboys, they (Apple) have in recent years shown that they will not open a phone or allow anyone the source code to do it. So unless they want to go through the whole FBI -> Paid consultant ->Hacker route to open your phone and see your lunch meeting notes, this is probably the closest you'll get to secure.

Android does do a 'soft-brick' if I remember correctly, but based on the operating system, I believe it took anywhere from 20-50 wrong pin entry's to activate.

Best bet? Encrypt everything from the go. No password - no information, however it can be dumped onto a computer and allow someone to attempt to decrypt it at a later time.




tl;dr: TacAir's suggestion of a cheap burner phone with only limited data on it for travel seems the best/cheapest/easiest option.

_________________
I tilt at Windmills
BattleVersion wrote:
For my Family?...Burn down the world, sure... But, I'm also willing to carry it on my shoulders.
raptor wrote:
...I am allergic to bullets;I break out in blood.
jnathan wrote:
... you can choke on my Hebrew National.

Image


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2017 3:33 pm 
Offline
* * *
User avatar

Joined: Mon Feb 21, 2011 12:20 am
Posts: 646
Has thanked: 51 times
Been thanked: 54 times
This is terrible and horrifying. I fly internationally for work occasionally. In fact I was in the EU two weeks ago. No issues coming home but I am extremely generic looking and I doubt I looked nervous. Biggest issue was taking my picture at the kiosk.

Not sure what I'll do when this happens to me.

_________________
Shiney side out... Shiney side out...


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2017 3:44 pm 
Offline
* * *

Joined: Mon Aug 17, 2015 2:56 pm
Posts: 513
Has thanked: 31 times
Been thanked: 97 times
First: There's a border search exemption to the 4th(?) amendment the removes the "probable cause or warrant" needed for search and seizure. So, there's no legal recourse to prevent you from being compelled to unlock or surrender your devices. Even if you are a US citizen. IANAL, but wiping a phone after you have been ordered to unlock or surrender it will probably get you in a heap of trouble.

Second: If you're traveling for work, and have to take a company issued device, make sure the only thing on there is company issued. Again, IANAL, but that means that it is your employer's bowl of rice and not yours if DHS wants to poke through it. I don't think your employer can compel you to break the law (refuse to unlock or surrender the device).

Third: Refurbished, prepaid, smart phones are cheap. Typically a fraction of what you paid for your i-device. Install a remote wipe app in case it's stolen while your traveling. If you don't need internet access or navigation apps, feature phones are often given away with the purchase of a prepaid card. Load basic contacts (hotel, family, lawyer) onto it and be done with it. If DHS want's to probe through it, it's their waste of time. Just get a receipt for anything they confiscate.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2017 4:33 pm 
Offline
* *
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jan 09, 2014 12:41 am
Posts: 136
Has thanked: 59 times
Been thanked: 15 times
I am not a lawyer either, but these guys are:
can-federal-agents-detain-citizens-at-border-checkpoints-until-they-disclose-their-smartphone-passcodes
short answer: "maybe"


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2017 4:50 pm 
Offline
* * * * *
User avatar

Joined: Tue Sep 21, 2010 1:56 pm
Posts: 1244
Location: Charleston, SC
Has thanked: 282 times
Been thanked: 152 times
Read the article. A few other thoughts:

#1 - Did ICE official have the security clearance to read what was on the phone? Let alone copy it and possibly disseminate it.

#2 - He could have refused to give up the pin until he was ok'd by his boss at NASA. Totally reasonable IMHO.

#3 - Wonder what the responses and implications would be if he had simply asked if he was being detained, if he was in custody or if he was free to go?

_________________
I tilt at Windmills
BattleVersion wrote:
For my Family?...Burn down the world, sure... But, I'm also willing to carry it on my shoulders.
raptor wrote:
...I am allergic to bullets;I break out in blood.
jnathan wrote:
... you can choke on my Hebrew National.

Image


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2017 4:58 pm 
Offline
* * * * *
User avatar

Joined: Sun Dec 01, 2013 12:30 am
Posts: 1667
Has thanked: 240 times
Been thanked: 372 times
How does the travel ban concern American born citizens?
Why was a JPL issued mobile device with sensitive information taken out of country?
Why did the person yield that sensitive information to Airport/ Immigration employees?
I'm not a lawyer either but I do have to deal with sensitive/classified info. and a quick search yields this
18 U.S. Code § 798 - Disclosure of classified information
Current through Pub. L. 114-38. (See Public Laws for the current Congress.)
US Code
Notes
Authorities (CFR)
prev | next
(a)Whoever knowingly and willfully communicates, furnishes, transmits, or otherwise makes available to an unauthorized person, or publishes, or uses in any manner prejudicial to the safety or interest of the United States or for the benefit of any foreign government to the detriment of the United States any classified information—
(1)concerning the nature, preparation, or use of any code, cipher, or cryptographic system of the United States or any foreign government; or
(2)concerning the design, construction, use, maintenance, or repair of any device, apparatus, or appliance used or prepared or planned for use by the United States or any foreign government for cryptographic or communication intelligence purposes; or
(3)concerning the communication intelligence activities of the United States or any foreign government; or
(4)obtained by the processes of communication intelligence from the communications of any foreign government, knowing the same to have been obtained by such processes—
Shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both.
(b)As used in subsection (a) of this section—
The term “classified information” means information which, at the time of a violation of this section, is, for reasons of national security, specifically designated by a United States Government Agency for limited or restricted dissemination or distribution;
The terms “code,” “cipher,” and “cryptographic system” include in their meanings, in addition to their usual meanings, any method of secret writing and any mechanical or electrical device or method used for the purpose of disguising or concealing the contents, significance, or meanings of communications;
The term “foreign government” includes in its meaning any person or persons acting or purporting to act for or on behalf of any faction, party, department, agency, bureau, or military force of or within a foreign country, or for or on behalf of any government or any person or persons purporting to act as a government within a foreign country, whether or not such government is recognized by the United States;
The term “communication intelligence” means all procedures and methods used in the interception of communications and the obtaining of information from such communications by other than the intended recipients;
The term “unauthorized person” means any person who, or agency which, is not authorized to receive information of the categories set forth in subsection (a) of this section, by the President, or by the head of a department or agency of the United States Government which is expressly designated by the President to engage in communication intelligence activities for the United States.
(c)Nothing in this section shall prohibit the furnishing, upon lawful demand, of information to any regularly constituted committee of the Senate or House of Representatives of the United States of America, or joint committee thereof.
(d)
(1)Any person convicted of a violation of this section shall forfeit to the United States irrespective of any provision of State law—
(A)any property constituting, or derived from, any proceeds the person obtained, directly or indirectly, as the result of such violation; and
(B)any of the person’s property used, or intended to be used, in any manner or part, to commit, or to facilitate the commission of, such violation.
(2)The court, in imposing sentence on a defendant for a conviction of a violation of this section, shall order that the defendant forfeit to the United States all property described in paragraph (1).
(3)Except as provided in paragraph (4), the provisions of subsections (b), (c), and (e) through (p) of section 413 of the Comprehensive Drug Abuse Prevention and Control Act of 1970 (21 U.S.C. 853(b), (c), and (e)–(p)), shall apply to—
(A)property subject to forfeiture under this subsection;
(B)any seizure or disposition of such property; and
(C)any administrative or judicial proceeding in relation to such property,
if not inconsistent with this subsection.
(4)Notwithstanding section 524(c) of title 28, there shall be deposited in the Crime Victims Fund established under section 1402 of the Victims of Crime Act of 1984 (42 U.S.C. 10601) all amounts from the forfeiture of property under this subsection remaining after the payment of expenses for forfeiture and sale authorized by law.
(5)As used in this subsection, the term “State” means any State of the United States, the District of Columbia, the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico, and any territory or possession of the United States.

_________________
As of now I bet you got me wrong


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2017 5:19 pm 
Offline
* *
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jan 09, 2014 12:41 am
Posts: 136
Has thanked: 59 times
Been thanked: 15 times
My time with a security clearance predates smart phones, but I'd be willing to bet that there was no classified info on the phone.

(unless the guy in question pulled a HRC and had classified info in unsecure emails).


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2017 5:29 pm 
Offline
ZS Member
ZS Member
User avatar

Joined: Sun Apr 05, 2009 11:58 pm
Posts: 3736
Has thanked: 1540 times
Been thanked: 464 times
"Recently, an American born, American citizen, traveling with a US passport, who works for JPL (a NASA contractor) was detained at an airport coming back into the US and not allowed to leave until he unlocked his phone for them so they could copy over the information and look at his accounts. This was something he was specifically forbidden from doing by his employer, because it was a JPL issued phone which contained sensitive data."


I have so many problems with that scenario that something smells fishy to me....

JPL has very little going on that involves anything classified. So what does "sensitive" mean. What inside of NASA is "sensitive" anyhow?

Carrying "sensitive" data around probably violates all sorts of NASA/JPL rules, especially international travel. What is so "sensitive" about the guy working on the new James Webb Space Telescope?

Guess what. The story is fishy. The guy left the country on a personal trip but took his Government paid for phone. So if a government ICE agent wants to see it let hem have at it. I think our Bikkannavar is just trying to make a fuss to cover up that he carried his phone out of the country without authorization while on personal business. The author of the article just wants to bash the so called "muslim ban"

http://www.theverge.com/2017/2/12/14583 ... travel-ban

"Two weeks ago, Sidd Bikkannavar flew back into the United States after spending a few weeks abroad in South America. An employee of NASA’s Jet Propulsion Laboratory (JPL), Bikkannavar had been on a personal trip, pursuing his hobby of racing solar-powered cars. He had recently joined a Chilean team, and spent the last weeks of January at a race in Patagonia."

and

"Bikkannavar noted that the entire interaction with CBP was incredibly professional and friendly, and the officers confirmed everything Bikkannavar had said through his Global Entry background checks."

_________________
Most of my adventures are on my blog http://suntothenorth.blogspot.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
My Introduction With Pictures: http://zombiehunters.org/forum/viewtopi ... 10&t=79019" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Graduated with honors from kit porn university


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2017 6:20 pm 
Offline
ZS Moderator
ZS Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Sun Mar 04, 2007 10:18 pm
Posts: 15643
Location: Greater New Orleans Area
Has thanked: 843 times
Been thanked: 473 times
teotwaki wrote:

I have so many problems with that scenario that something smells fishy to me....

JPL has very little going on that involves anything classified. So what does "sensitive" mean. What inside of NASA is "sensitive" anyhow?

Carrying "sensitive" data around probably violates all sorts of NASA/JPL rules, especially international travel. What is so "sensitive" about the guy working on the new James Webb Space Telescope?

Guess what. The story is fishy. The guy left the country on a personal trip but took his Government paid for phone. So if a government ICE agent wants to see it let hem have at it. I think our Bikkannavar is just trying to make a fuss to cover up that he carried his phone out of the country without authorization while on personal business.
"Two weeks ago, Sidd Bikkannavar flew back into the United States after spending a few weeks abroad in South America. An employee of NASA’s Jet Propulsion Laboratory (JPL), Bikkannavar had been on a personal trip, pursuing his hobby of racing solar-powered cars. He had recently joined a Chilean team, and spent the last weeks of January at a race in Patagonia."

Snip

"Bikkannavar noted that the entire interaction with CBP was incredibly professional and friendly, and the officers confirmed everything Bikkannavar had said through his Global Entry background checks."


I agree with the above and i think you hit the nail on the head.

The other thing is that it is called customs and immigration but they also deal with agricultural products and the importation of in appropriate agricultural items, not just dope but for instance fruits and vegetables from areas that may transmit pest and invasive varmits, critters, insects and parasites.

He spent a few weeks in South America. When you go to SA you should assume you will be subject to extra scrutiny since in addition to drug smuggling you will get attention because you may be carrying some local produce.


If you are worried about someone seeing something you have on your phone or PC while going through customs or any other place here is a basic thought. A phone is the most insecure place to store any data of any value. It is easily lost, stolen or hacked and copied. If you need a "dead man switch" on your phone or your PC your data is too valuable to be on a smartphone.
Store the data elsewhere. Why get into a pissing match with a Customs, Immigration or USDA inspector when you can avoid the problem by simply not having the data on the phone.


If you travel get a TSA Known Traveler # and if you travel internationally enroll in Global Entry.

Going through US Customs and Immigration has never worried me.

Now going though customs in Nigeria, Brazil or Azerbaijan that is whole other matter. :D



Customs is a simple fact of life when you cross a border.

_________________
Duco Ergo Sum

Link to ZS Hall of Fame Forum
ImageImageImage


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2017 7:40 pm 
Offline
* * *

Joined: Thu Aug 01, 2013 2:58 am
Posts: 458
Has thanked: 0 time
Been thanked: 66 times
From experience with government-issue technology

If they want to see it...they see it as it is their property. though, why would they need to copy data when (in my case) they can often remote access the device?

_________________
Vincent Tornado: 2013
Tropical Cyclone Ita: Category 5 landfall 2014
Tropical Cyclone Marcia: Category 5 landfall 2015
Tropical Cyclone Nathan: Category 3 landfall 2015
Severe Tropical Cyclone Debbie: Category 4 landfall 2017


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2017 8:26 pm 
Offline
* * * * *
User avatar

Joined: Tue Sep 21, 2010 1:56 pm
Posts: 1244
Location: Charleston, SC
Has thanked: 282 times
Been thanked: 152 times
Could also just be a reporter trying to stir up some sales. Dude could just be an unwilling Cause de Jour...

[Off topic]
My limited experience with HSA is rather humorous. If you baggage gets pulled and checked, they place a sticker on it and leave a pamphlet to let you know it was rifled with. I was up in Rhode Island for a funeral and picked up a salami that is hard to come by down here in the South (Soppressata) had about 5 pounds of it in my checked bag. I got to Charleston and looked in my bag. By the amount of pamphlets left, every dog between here and Rhode Island alerted on the bag.
[/Off topic]

_________________
I tilt at Windmills
BattleVersion wrote:
For my Family?...Burn down the world, sure... But, I'm also willing to carry it on my shoulders.
raptor wrote:
...I am allergic to bullets;I break out in blood.
jnathan wrote:
... you can choke on my Hebrew National.

Image


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2017 8:30 pm 
Offline
* * * * *
User avatar

Joined: Sat Oct 31, 2009 7:48 pm
Posts: 1939
Location: Doral, FL
Has thanked: 16 times
Been thanked: 96 times
Sensitive information can include FOUO. For official use only. It is often customary to take your phone with you in a variety of situations. I remember being in the woods at a Boy Scout leaders training event and trying to clear press guidance across two geographic bureaus on my State Department Blackberry POS.

Similarly, when visiting my wife's family in Greece I had my Blackberry and checked it at 1200 EDT just in case there was anything that needed my expertise.

Having been behind the scenes at CBP in Miami (pre smartphone era) they can literally put you in the cooler to make you talk. The holding cells are kept on full AC 24/7. Women in tank tops were always the first to talk.

_________________
Priests and cannibals, prehistoric animals
Everybody happy as the dead come home

Big black nemesis, parthenogenesis
No-one move a muscle as the dead come home


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2017 10:00 pm 
Offline
ZS Member
ZS Member
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2013 4:54 pm
Posts: 164
Has thanked: 10 times
Been thanked: 34 times
Thanks for the replies guys!

As Evan pointed out, many people (including govt. employees) need to bring their work cellphone with them when they travel; they need to be available to communicate if necessary. As for signing up for Global Entry and the like, that doesn't seem to have helped the guy in the article.

I first thought putting an erase app on my phone was brilliant, but as some people pointed out, such an app is nothing like instantaneous, and would probably get me in more trouble than just refusing to unlock the phone to begin with.

The idea of a more-or-less burner phone or smartphone for travel was intriguing; I already have a laptop like that. That laptop basically has access to only one small corner of my cloud storage that I need for trade shows. The reason I can get away with that though is that I can answer email on my phone. I have a couple of small business ventures going, and checking email on the road is non-negotiable (one of the real downsides to being self employed is that you are never off the clock). If my travel phone can access my email, I don't want to give anyone access to my entire email archive. If it can't, it's not sufficient for what I need it for. On a short, two or three day trip I might be able to get away with a burner phone that does voice only, but any longer than that and I need to have email access etc. And, international trips are pretty much never that short.

ssgcmw, thanks for the link! A number of people commenting on that article were attorneys, who explained that if they gave up their information on a phone that had communication with clients, they would be violating attorney-client privilege, which is a crime. That's really being stuck between a rock and a hard place! On the other hand, there are specific provisions in the CBP procedures for attorney-client privilege which might help them out? It basically just said some other legal council had to be consulted. All that is quite irrelevant for me though, as I am not an attorney.

Someone else in that comment thread suggested writing down a temporary password, keep one copy at home, take one copy with you, change the password before reentry into the States, and then flush it down the airline toilet. Since you are unable to unlock the phone (you can't access the password until you get home and you haven't memorized a random alphanumeric code), you are unable to provide assistance to them in accessing you phone. That's clever and seem plausible, but again would probably require a protracted court case to determine if it was a legal action, and I don't want to be the test case.

In summary, I don't see that I have any options that are better than the ones I first enumerated. I will, however try to keep an eye on this topic. I suspect it's going to be the subject of court battles soon, and I'm extremely interested to find out what the rulings are; they might clarify what (lawful) options I have. Thanks for the brainstorm!


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2017 11:13 pm 
Offline
ZS Moderator
ZS Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Sun Mar 04, 2007 10:18 pm
Posts: 15643
Location: Greater New Orleans Area
Has thanked: 843 times
Been thanked: 473 times
No lawyer here but there have been many court cases on the subject of seach authority by customs and immigration dating way back.

The US courts have consistently held that for a wide variety reasons including taxation and smuggling control the customs agents have both a public need and the authority to conduct searches of people, goods and vehicles (land,sea and air) crossing the borders with very few limits on that authority.

That is not likely to change radically anytime soon.

_________________
Duco Ergo Sum

Link to ZS Hall of Fame Forum
ImageImageImage


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2017 11:19 pm 
Offline
ZS Member
ZS Member
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2013 4:54 pm
Posts: 164
Has thanked: 10 times
Been thanked: 34 times
I was talking specifically about searching people's phones and/or demanding passwords to email, social media, etc. This is a relatively new phenomenon (at least at recent volume of searches), and I suspect will be the subject of numerous court cases. If there have already been court cases setting precedent for whether they can demand that the data on a phone be unlocked at the border (or similarly for email, social media etc.), I would be interested to read about them if anyone has links.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2017 11:43 pm 
Offline
ZS Moderator
ZS Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Sun Mar 04, 2007 10:18 pm
Posts: 15643
Location: Greater New Orleans Area
Has thanked: 843 times
Been thanked: 473 times
It is not that much different than searching books, papers records and letters of merchants importing and travelling with thier goods. You will find old and cold cases dealing with that subject in the US.

Basically if you bring it to the custom dock, they can search it.

_________________
Duco Ergo Sum

Link to ZS Hall of Fame Forum
ImageImageImage


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2017 11:52 pm 
Offline
ZS Member
ZS Member
User avatar

Joined: Mon Aug 22, 2005 2:48 am
Posts: 3049
Location: Des Moines, Iowa
Has thanked: 536 times
Been thanked: 148 times
Sun Yeti wrote:
I was talking specifically about searching people's phones and/or demanding passwords to email, social media, etc. This is a relatively new phenomenon (at least at recent volume of searches), and I suspect will be the subject of numerous court cases. If there have already been court cases setting precedent for whether they can demand that the data on a phone be unlocked at the border (or similarly for email, social media etc.), I would be interested to read about them if anyone has links.

Read Wikipedia's entry on the 'border search exception'.

_________________
Matthew Paul Malloy
Veteran: USAR, USA, IAANG.

Dragon Savers!
Golden Dragons!
Tropic Lightning!
Duty! Honor! Country!


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Sun Mar 05, 2017 2:45 am 
Offline
* * *
User avatar

Joined: Thu May 21, 2009 6:30 pm
Posts: 549
Location: Central New York
Has thanked: 43 times
Been thanked: 15 times
If they detain you, you want protesters? Sounds like some BLM shit to me.

_________________
Czechnology wrote:
Lots of people enjoy saying "Move" when people complain about their local/state laws, but that's a churlish, ignorant thing to say.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Sun Mar 05, 2017 11:45 am 
Offline
* *
User avatar

Joined: Fri Nov 15, 2013 11:48 pm
Posts: 107
Location: Imperium
Has thanked: 0 time
Been thanked: 0 time
TacAir wrote:
(shrug)

I carry a cheap travel phone ($24.95) at Best Buy. I can swap the SIM in under a minute. I can make and take telephone calls while out of pocket.

I keep a minimum phone list and nothing else on the phone - this in case of theft or loss.

If you have wedded (or welded) yourself to a smart phone (or any other device for that matter) you should take a long hard look at the device and what the loss of this device would mean to you.

Otherwise, if this is something you worry over, put a self-destruct app on the phone. Last I heard, it took a warrant to search one's property.... If asked to open the device, nuke it.

Copy everything onto a mini-chip as a backup and place somewhere in your baggage.



That's exactly what I do too. If I'm leaving the country I'll just use my spare phone which has just the essential contact list I need, basic email account, basic mapping and language apps and no social media.

I considered the phone nuke option but if I'm trying to pass a border and I'm pulled aside for secondary screening or whatever the last thing I want to do is set off any redflags by wiping my stuff.

_________________
Blessed is the mind too small for doubt


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 6:28 pm 
Offline
* * *

Joined: Mon Aug 17, 2015 2:56 pm
Posts: 513
Has thanked: 31 times
Been thanked: 97 times
Umm... This just went beyond anecdotal evidence. It now appears to be policy. A just-for-travel set of personal electronics may become as necessary as extra prescription medication. Not quite requisite, but highly advisable.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/americ ... ailsignout


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 8:19 pm 
Offline
ZS Member
ZS Member
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2013 4:54 pm
Posts: 164
Has thanked: 10 times
Been thanked: 34 times
As a small businessperson, if I don't answer emails promptly I can lose business. But on reflection, I would rather lose hundreds or even thousands of dollars worth of business than have my life turned upside down (or have to surrender all my personal info). And, it really looks like this is heading toward SOP at the border with certain groups of citizens.

So, on reflection, I guess I will take a burner phone next time I travel internationally and set an email autoreply and hope some of my more impatient customers can wait.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 39 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group