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PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2017 10:36 pm 
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You are a fairly well to do employee of a popular and well stocked gun store. The store is in a locale with essentially NO restrictions on ownership of firearms beyond a shall-issue permit requirement for concealed carry of handguns, which you have as a condition of employment. Open carry is legit.
The one requirement of employment is that on a rotation basis, you are obligated to provide security for the store nights and weekends when the store is closed for business with one other employee or sometimes the owner. There have been burglary attempts over the years with little success.
The store is securely appointed, with roll down gates, lights and security cameras covering all entrances, windows, doors. All exterior walls are two layers of brick with insulation. The building is three stories, basement and sub basement with a OSHA compliant 25 meter range. Backstop material rated for rifles and also doubles as sound baffling is thoughtfully applied to all building walls and floors. The store is centered in the lot with parking all around the building.

One night it's your turn. You bring your laptop/tablet/phone, your favorite rifle and your CCW piece. You take up residence at your desk in a 2nd floor office with your coworker.
That night, on the security monitors about 3AM you see a white van and a crew of 5 people pull up to your parked car, start yanking on the door handles and fiddling with the windows. One of them stares into the store and starts hammering the front gate control box cover.

You and your coworker grab carbines and head downstairs. When the people see the two of you some out from a back door to the sales floor, three of them run back to the van and slowly pull out of the lot. Two of them stay behind, draw handguns and start firing rounds through the front door and windows at you.
The two with handguns continue to move towards the departing van but continue to fire at you into the store.

Discuss.

The real life event.

http://www.houstonchronicle.com/news/ho ... 863956.php

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2017 11:15 pm 
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Well, if they are leaving I probably just watch from behind the best cover available while on the phone with police. And my rifle by my side.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2017 11:45 pm 
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If they are shooting at me while leaving, I would probably return fire. I guess it would depend on how fast they were leaving and how determined their shooting was.
You know it's funny. My first thought reading this was, sounds like it's time to get a safer job. That's 60 yr old Fly talking as opposed to 36 yr old fly who loaded a carbine and two pistols in his vehicle, Drove cross town and never missed a night of work during the L A riots. Aint no rioters gonna keep me from work.... As if what I was doing at the time was life or death. :roll:

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 1:03 am 
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In California we would have to apologize to the perps for injuring them and then close down the store due to anti-gun politics.

More seriously I would have to say that I cannot read minds and could not know if the assaulters would circle back or if there are more perps ready to assault the store. I'd return fire until the shooters have stopped shooting at me whether they were dead or alive. Then I'd want to better secure my position in the store and dial 911.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 3:41 pm 
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jor-el wrote:
You are a fairly well to do employee of a popular and well stocked gun store. The store is in a locale with essentially NO restrictions on ownership of firearms beyond a shall-issue permit requirement for concealed carry of handguns, which you have as a condition of employment. Open carry is legit.
The one requirement of employment is that on a rotation basis, you are obligated to provide security for the store nights and weekends when the store is closed for business with one other employee or sometimes the owner. There have been burglary attempts over the years with little success.
The store is securely appointed, with roll down gates, lights and security cameras covering all entrances, windows, doors. All exterior walls are two layers of brick with insulation. The building is three stories, basement and sub basement with a OSHA compliant 25 meter range. Backstop material rated for rifles and also doubles as sound baffling is thoughtfully applied to all building walls and floors. The store is centered in the lot with parking all around the building.

One night it's your turn. You bring your laptop/tablet/phone, your favorite rifle and your CCW piece. You take up residence at your desk in a 2nd floor office with your coworker.
That night, on the security monitors about 3AM you see a white van and a crew of 5 people pull up to your parked car, start yanking on the door handles and fiddling with the windows. One of them stares into the store and starts hammering the front gate control box cover.

You and your coworker grab carbines and head downstairs. When the people see the two of you some out from a back door to the sales floor, three of them run back to the van and slowly pull out of the lot. Two of them stay behind, draw handguns and start firing rounds through the front door and windows at you.
The two with handguns continue to move towards the departing van but continue to fire at you into the store.

Discuss.

The real life event.

http://www.houstonchronicle.com/news/ho ... 863956.php




I can not read the article offered without subscribing. :roll:


So, with what you posted- I would have called the local authorities to report crime in progress. Move with the other employee to a safe (relative in this scenario) location while being able to communicate with the authorities the movements/actions of said assailants. (Unknown if others are trying to breach different access points of the building, so due diligence is required to monitor video feeds and check your six for bogeys). Return fire only if access was gained to the store.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 4:38 pm 
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They wouldn't have made it out of the box.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 4:55 pm 
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NapalmMan67 wrote:
I can not read the article offered without subscribing.


Somehow the Houston Chronicle ended up displaying the whole story for me via this link

http://www.chron.com/neighborhood/memor ... 861906.php

also found this

http://blog.cheaperthandirt.com/gun-sto ... men-legal/

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 7:25 pm 
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teotwaki wrote:
NapalmMan67 wrote:
I can not read the article offered without subscribing.


Somehow the Houston Chronicle ended up displaying the whole story for me via this link

http://www.chron.com/neighborhood/memor ... 861906.php

also found this

http://blog.cheaperthandirt.com/gun-sto ... men-legal/


I'd call 911 to report and then fire my rifle from cover as long as they were facing me and firing.

I don't want to lose everything that's mine in a successful or unsuccessful legal defense in front of a jury of my Facebook trained peers.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 9:11 pm 
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Zimmy wrote:
teotwaki wrote:
NapalmMan67 wrote:
I can not read the article offered without subscribing.


Somehow the Houston Chronicle ended up displaying the whole story for me via this link

http://www.chron.com/neighborhood/memor ... 861906.php

also found this

http://blog.cheaperthandirt.com/gun-sto ... men-legal/


I'd call 911 to report and then fire my rifle from cover as long as they were facing me and firing.

I don't want to lose everything that's mine in a successful or unsuccessful legal defense in front of a jury of my Facebook trained peers.

I thought that too. But the article did state that the attackers were on cctv, Logically being recorded)
Retreating or not if they are shooting they would still be the aggressors. But I don't know if Texas has a castle doctrine or stand your ground law. Or even if the fact that it was a gun store, would be a mitigating factor.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 9:21 pm 
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teotwaki wrote:
In California we would have to apologize to the perps for injuring them and then close down the store due to anti-gun politics.

.


That's because California is controlled by sinister forces :ohdear:

(Definition of sinister
1
archaic :  unfavorable, unlucky
2
archaic :  fraudulent
3
:  singularly evil or productive of evil
4
a :  of, relating to, or situated to the left or on the left side of something; especially :  being or relating to the side of a heraldic shield at the left of the person bearing it

b :  of ill omen by reason of being on the left
5

:  presaging ill fortune or trouble
6
:  accompanied by or leading to disaster )

Word of the day ( we make reading fun :crazy: )

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 9:48 pm 
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flybynight wrote:
Zimmy wrote:
teotwaki wrote:
NapalmMan67 wrote:
I can not read the article offered without subscribing.


Somehow the Houston Chronicle ended up displaying the whole story for me via this link

http://www.chron.com/neighborhood/memor ... 861906.php

also found this

http://blog.cheaperthandirt.com/gun-sto ... men-legal/


I'd call 911 to report and then fire my rifle from cover as long as they were facing me and firing.

I don't want to lose everything that's mine in a successful or unsuccessful legal defense in front of a jury of my Facebook trained peers.

I thought that too. But the article did state that the attackers were on cctv, Logically being recorded)
Retreating or not if they are shooting they would still be the aggressors. But I don't know if Texas has a castle doctrine or stand your ground law. Or even if the fact that it was a gun store, would be a mitigating factor.


We have Castle (or our equivalent). I just don't want to be the guy who makes the career for a district attorney if politics raises its head.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2017 12:15 pm 
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Take cover, double check that rifle is ready to go, check coworkers condition, get 911 on the phone, & try to keep an eye on bad guys. (Judging by past incidents there would probably be colorful language and insults hurled at bad guys.) If incoming rounds are wild shots being thrown in general direction of the building then I'd probably hold my fire out of fear of legal trouble. However if I felt they were making an effort to target us, then I'd try to negate the threat if possible. I really don't want to kill anybody, but I feel a social responsibility to help cancel out those with no regard for human life (plus getting shot at tends to piss me off).
If we could do it safely one of us should probably move to apposition where we can observe other possible entry points, radios might be a good idea

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