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Russians 'annex' Alaska!
Shelter in place ~ try to go unnoticed and remain neutral. 15%  15%  [ 3 ]
Get the Hell out of Dodge! ~ I've heard Yukon Territory is nice this time of year. 20%  20%  [ 4 ]
Actively resist ~ remember the original Red Dawn? I always liked that movie. 65%  65%  [ 13 ]
Actively assist ~ I speak Russian and maybe they let me keep this AK-74 they gave me. 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Total votes : 20
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 Post subject: Remember Crimea?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 23, 2016 9:34 am 
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> Ukraine elects a Pro-Russian President
> Pro-Russian President is impeached
> Ukraine elects a not as Russian friendly President
> Russia annexes Crimea to protect the majority ethnic Russian population
> NATO chooses not to get directly involved because Ukraine is not a member and they are not required to

WWYD?
> Ukraine America elects a Pro-Russian President
> Pro-Russian President is impeached
> Ukraine America elects a not as Russian friendly President
> Russia annexes Crimea Alaska to protect the majority ethnic Russian population
> NATO chooses not to get directly involved because Ukraine is not a member and Articvle V of the NATO treaty says that if the United States is attacked that they are not required to

So there is the justification for my anxiety. So don't tell me I'm crazy or paranoid, let's remember that this is a sight dedicated to prepping for the zombie apocalypse.... We are all crazy and paranoid! :awesome:

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 Post subject: Re: Remember Crimea?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 23, 2016 11:04 am 
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If Russia annexed California nobody would notice.... lol. Sacramento could replace Moscow and have nicer weather too. :mrgreen:

I believe there is no chance of your scenario happening in real life. However, you have laid out the framework for a great book. You should flesh out that skeleton and develop the story! Maybe call it "White Dawn" ?

If I lived in Alaska and was in that scenario I would hope that I could get my family safely into Canada. Next I would go back into Alaska and wage war until the Russians killed me. Might not take them long either but what the heck....

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 Post subject: Re: Remember Crimea?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 23, 2016 11:18 am 
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Hey Everyone:

Get out, get safe, plan from there.

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 Post subject: Re: Remember Crimea?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 23, 2016 11:31 am 
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The poll answers are written in the order of preferability \ probability for me.

My place is so remote, I'm thinking (hoping) there wouldn't be much difference to me\mine between Moscow and DC. So shelter in and remain neutral.

The next would be get out if I have to, if I can.

The last two would be a tie for me, I don't want to be swept up into a international kerfuffle on either side. I'd want to support the US, but if the Russians chose my beach for a beach head...

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 Post subject: Re: Remember Crimea?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 23, 2016 12:30 pm 
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I'm too fat and lazy to be a guerilla.

Maybe there would be opportunities to let the air out of tires or pee in someone's coffee, but I'm guessing any resistance I would pull off would be mostly passive.

I think most of the time Alaska's climate would be its most effective defense, but the Russians are probably better prepared for that than most. :lol:

If it seemed likely that escape was possible, I think we'd probably head for the Canadian border and then down to the U.S. to stay with relatives. The thing is that it seems like there could be a lot of problems due to everyone trying to drive down the same few roads and get the same limited number of spaces on ships and airplanes. Trying to run for it and getting stuck in Chicken sounds way worse than sheltering in place.

Are you sure the majority of Alaska is ethnically Russian?


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 Post subject: Re: Remember Crimea?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 23, 2016 12:42 pm 
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This thread is treading the border of politics. That said the topic of WWYD in case of invasion is a permissible topic and if you stick to those answers rather than pose political responses it may remain open.

To that end I would note that being neutral when a war is waging around you is never a healthy thing to do.

Both parties will be suspicious of you and you will have the loyalty of neither. That can work if you are strong enough and do not have anything the other side wants and assist both sides in non-aggressive ways. Think Switzerland and Sweden in WW-2. I do not think this applies here.

If you are remote enough both side may forget you are there, but at some point when the war is over the winner will want to talk to you about what you did, did not do and why you stayed out of the mess. If you are on no one's side it is likely that after this bloodbath is over you will find little sympathy for that position. Look at what happens to partisans and collaborators throughout history when they fall into the opposition hands.

My suggestion is to pick a side now and decide which country's citizenship you want for yourself and then act accordingly.

IMO if you live some place and swear allegiance to that country and its people you should be willing to defend it. I am not saying go "red dawn" on invaders only that in that event you should resist with any means appropriate to protect your fellow citizens.

Since you speak the language of the invaders in this case resistance could be feigned cooperation with the occupiers and acting as a translator to the benefit of your fellow citizens to ensure they are not mistreated. Take the AK-74 they give you in that case and any ammo or weapons you can get your hands on, it can always be passed on to the active resistance for instance.

Remember the resulting war will end and you will called upon by the victor at some point to account for your actions.


Edited to add:
A joke history teacher once told us in high school:
Do you know the key difference between a Freedom Fighter and a rebel?

Answer:
Simple. The Freedom Fighter won the war and history assigns the labels accordingly, because the victor writes the history books.

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 Post subject: Re: Remember Crimea?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 23, 2016 2:41 pm 
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Lots of poisoning and sabotage while I appear to be all friendly with them.

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 Post subject: Re: Remember Crimea?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 23, 2016 4:57 pm 
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In the early days of World War III, guerrillas - mostly children - placed the names of their lost upon this rock.
They fought here alone and gave up their lives, so that 'this nation shall not perish from the earth.'
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Your chances of survival are low Might as well go out a patriot. There would be brass all around me and surrounding that, good Ruskies.

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 Post subject: Re: Remember Crimea?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 23, 2016 6:57 pm 
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From my other thread:




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 Post subject: Re: Remember Crimea?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 23, 2016 8:19 pm 
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These articles may not make you feel a whole lot better :crazy:

How World War III Could Begin in Latvia
http://foreignpolicy.com/2016/11/16/how ... in-latvia/

Could World War III start here?
http://www.cnn.com/2016/11/03/opinions/ ... -andelman/

Latvians Aren’t Happy The BBC Just Showed Russia Invading Them
https://www.buzzfeed.com/hayesbrown/the ... et2og90Rwk

COUNTDOWN TO ARMAGEDDON US military expert who predicted Crimea and Ukraine invasions claims WORLD WAR 3 will start in Latvia
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/2232242/u ... in-latvia/

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 Post subject: Re: Remember Crimea?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 23, 2016 10:25 pm 
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quazi wrote:
Are you sure the majority of Alaska is ethnically Russian?


No, I'm not sure. At least not today. But I could see Russia claiming as much to the International community.

Fun, useless, personal factoid. My mother's people are Russian Jews who were driven from Russia back around 1900 by Czar Nikolas II. The way the story goes they walked across the Bearing Strait during the winter when it was frozen solid. Now if this is completely true or partially embellished, who can say over 100 years later. But what I do know is they settled up around Fairbanks and were the owners \ operators of a mining camp. And my mother and her parents moved to GA in the 1960s.

raptor wrote:
Since you speak the language....


That was pure sarcasm. Aside from, dah, n`yet, and a few colorful phrases that would probably get me shot in such a hypothetical situation, I do not speak Russian.

You are right about history being written by the victors. But who will win? That is the highest stakes gamble anyone will ever make. I'm not a gamblin' man. And you also bring up an interesting point about the perils of trying to remain neutral. The point I was trying to make about choosing a side is that your side is chosen for you. Think of it like street gangs, maybe a poor analogy, but indulge me. People join gangs based on the neighborhood they live in, or rather what gang controls their neighborhood. So if my family finds itself in an area controlled by the Russians, I would be hard pressed not to collaborate. But what if the Americans regain control? But if I remain neutral, when the dust settles, I can hope that any reasonable person will not begrudge me for trying to stay out of the troubles ~ regardless of their allegiance.

Then again, I have a boat and Seattle is only 2,000 miles away.

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 Post subject: Re: Remember Crimea?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 23, 2016 10:44 pm 
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Ok. Russia is not going to invade the US. Setting aside words like "nuclear" and "mutually assured destruction," Russia does not have the military and logistical capacity to invade a country and defend itself from China at the same time. And really, Russia lacks the capacity to get enough troops to fight even a National Guard force, unless they move so many people and equipment that it becomes impossible to hide and the US then moves massive amounts of people and material to meet them.

But the most likely end result of any endeavor on Russia's part is that as they throw people and material into an invasion, and then launch them upon the sea (or maybe run them over the Bearing Strait, which I believe is more of a seasonal thing), China would likely just march North, take a massive amount of land from an over extended military that is hanging it's neck out over the Pacific/US land. Moscow would place some troops on the defensive to protect the populated parts of Russia, and start trying to figure out how to convince a bunch of young men in a land where incomes far exceed the average at home that they want to continue fighting a rather nasty population and military in the name of the Mother Land. And lets face it, while Russia has ballerina super models, America has California girls. The numbers weigh on the American side in this one. No Russian Army, cut off and alone, would stand a chance.

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 Post subject: Re: Remember Crimea?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 23, 2016 10:56 pm 
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woodsghost wrote:
Ok. Russia is not going to invade the US. ....


That's what I think, although the logistical / tactical points you make were mostly unknown to me aside from nukes and MAD.

But isn't it fun to argue about things that will probably never happen?

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Last edited by Hiroshima_Morphine on Fri Nov 25, 2016 10:17 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Remember Crimea?
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I would resist but the idea is really far fetched.Most of the ethnic Russian population is centered around the west of Russia. I can't see how they would be able to use surprise at all to invade. Not to mention the logistics of transporting heavy weapons across 9 time zones would be a nightmare. The weather alone would probably doom the invasion force. I am not thinking of winter weather either, the tundra melts and makes the land a muddy slush that traps all. Even if by some miracle they get to Alaska how would they defeat an enemy that is dug in and is very much closer to the arena with a population 3 times their size and the capability to attack them from multiple fronts with a larger military and economy? Nah, it would be suicide. The Russians are already nervous about China where they are outnumbered in their resource rich eastern half 10 to 1. Remember the only successful invaders of Russia came from the East. I actually think with a rising China we are more likely to have a reverse Nixon moment where the Soviets were on the perceived ascension and we made a deal with the Chinese, now we switch sides and come to an agreement with Russia. With the current political situation I could see a map for this.

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 Post subject: Re: Remember Crimea?
PostPosted: Thu Nov 24, 2016 11:34 am 
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Hiroshima_Morphine wrote:
woodsghost wrote:
Ok. Russia is not going to invade the US. ....


That's what I think, although the logistical / tactical points you make were mostly unknown to me aside from nukes and MAD.

But isn't fun to argue about things that will probably never happen?


No. No it is not. I was born without a sense of humor, and therefore take everything out of context and refuse to find joy in life.


Ok, yeah, it is fun. But I try to feel out how serious posters are about the topics they post up. Given some of your previous posts, I figured you were pretty serious, so I thought I'd point out some reasons to relax.

Believe me, I love to think about how things would go if Red Dawn became a real thing. My problem with entertaining such ideas is I start to think about how a breakdown in the supply/provision of medicine would affect people. A lot of people would be in pain or die. A lot of mentally handicapped people would be in a world of hurt. So that ends up killing some of the fun in my disasterbation.

Life now is pretty good. And complex. It would really suck if even small pieces fell apart. I"ve just spend a lot of time with those who would be severely affected by disasters longer than 7 days.

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 Post subject: Re: Remember Crimea?
PostPosted: Thu Nov 24, 2016 11:49 am 
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Hiroshima_Morphine wrote:

raptor wrote:
Since you speak the language....


That was pure sarcasm. Aside from, dah, n`yet, and a few colorful phrases that would probably get me shot in such a hypothetical situation, I do not speak Russian.



Ok I did not pick that up as sarcasm. :wink: Hey I am constantly amazed at the skills and knowledge of ZS'ers and being able to speak russian is certainly not out of the realm of possibilities.

Now it did influence my answer in that a person fluent in russian is IMO more likely to be assumed a collaborator by American. It also opened more opportunities to be both a collaborator and resistance member.


Hiroshima_Morphine wrote:

You are right about history being written by the victors. But who will win? That is the highest stakes gamble anyone will ever make. I'm not a gamblin' man. And you also bring up an interesting point about the perils of trying to remain neutral. The point I was trying to make about choosing a side is that your side is chosen for you. Think of it like street gangs, maybe a poor analogy, but indulge me. People join gangs based on the neighborhood they live in, or rather what gang controls their neighborhood. So if my family finds itself in an area controlled by the Russians, I would be hard pressed not to collaborate. But what if the Americans regain control? But if I remain neutral, when the dust settles, I can hope that any reasonable person will not begrudge me for trying to stay out of the troubles ~ regardless of their allegiance.



I would suspect that between the logistics and a bunch of really pissed off AK's ANY invader would have a real problem. Throw in the US Pacific Fleet, Canadian and US land based armed forces reacting, the fight would either be over quickly or go thermonuclear. Then there is issue of Japan and SK, like Canada, neither would be happy with this force being projected so close to their borders. So unless Russia had the cooperation of the PRC and NK ( I assume NK would be more than happy to throw resources into this battle) I see little profit for Russia to attempt this invasion. The AK energy supplies are vast but then so are Russia's.

Hiroshima_Morphine wrote:

But who will win? That is the highest stakes gamble anyone will ever make. I'm not a gamblin' man.


I am not sure who would win, however, I can say with certainty who would lose.

It would be the people caught behind the lines of such an occupation.

Hiroshima_Morphine wrote:
Then again, I have a boat and Seattle is only 2,000 miles away.


IMO this ^^^^is the best response if possible.


Edited to add:
For the record I would stay and resist in any manner as possible for as long as I could resist. I have no illusions about my longevity or effectiveness in such a circumstance but any ineffectiveness would not be the result of a lack of effort on my part.

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 Post subject: Re: Remember Crimea?
PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2016 10:01 am 
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woodsghost wrote:
Given some of your previous posts, I figured you were pretty serious, so I thought I'd point out some reasons to relax.


Actually, it was a very serious post. And these are exactly the answers I wanted. I wanted other ZSers to tell me that my paranoia and anxiety was unfounded. But don't just tell me I'm paranoid; back it up with facts of why this invasion will probably never happen.

That's exactly what all of you have done. You affirmed the logical side of my brain and quieted the anxious side.

Thank You.

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I'm not preparing for foreign invasion because I have other, more likely scenarios that I need to get better prepared for first. (Of course the things that make me better prepared for a massive earthquake, longshoreman's strike or job loss also make me better prepared for a foreign invasion.)

That said, if a person has their basics taken care of I don't think it's a bad idea to prepare for foreign invasion, if it's done in a smart manner. Right now I think that would also mean preparing for nuclear war.

I don't think it's likely, but I also think there are probably a lot of reasonably well-informed people who thought something could never happen for good and logical reasons and then ended up dead because something that they had no idea existed came out of left-field and got them. We can only know a small fraction of what's going on out there.


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Hiroshima_Morphine wrote:
woodsghost wrote:
Given some of your previous posts, I figured you were pretty serious, so I thought I'd point out some reasons to relax.


Actually, it was a very serious post. And these are exactly the answers I wanted. I wanted other ZSers to tell me that my paranoia and anxiety was unfounded. But don't just tell me I'm paranoid; back it up with facts of why this invasion will probably never happen.

That's exactly what all of you have done. You affirmed the logical side of my brain and quieted the anxious side.

Thank You.


I get you. I have been going through the same thing. Especially with the recent elections. But as I've said before, I keep coming back to help me stay sane.

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Hiroshima_Morphine wrote:
woodsghost wrote:
Given some of your previous posts, I figured you were pretty serious, so I thought I'd point out some reasons to relax.


Actually, it was a very serious post. And these are exactly the answers I wanted. I wanted other ZSers to tell me that my paranoia and anxiety was unfounded. But don't just tell me I'm paranoid; back it up with facts of why this invasion will probably never happen.

That's exactly what all of you have done. You affirmed the logical side of my brain and quieted the anxious side.

Thank You.

Мы рады помочь другу. Кстати. Нравится ли вам свекольный суп?

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flybynight wrote:
Hiroshima_Morphine wrote:
woodsghost wrote:
Given some of your previous posts, I figured you were pretty serious, so I thought I'd point out some reasons to relax.


Actually, it was a very serious post. And these are exactly the answers I wanted. I wanted other ZSers to tell me that my paranoia and anxiety was unfounded. But don't just tell me I'm paranoid; back it up with facts of why this invasion will probably never happen.

That's exactly what all of you have done. You affirmed the logical side of my brain and quieted the anxious side.

Thank You.

Мы рады помочь другу. Кстати. Нравится ли вам свекольный суп?


What type of soup?

I feel like this is a reference that I am not getting.

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Hiroshima_Morphine wrote:
flybynight wrote:
Hiroshima_Morphine wrote:
woodsghost wrote:
Given some of your previous posts, I figured you were pretty serious, so I thought I'd point out some reasons to relax.


Actually, it was a very serious post. And these are exactly the answers I wanted. I wanted other ZSers to tell me that my paranoia and anxiety was unfounded. But don't just tell me I'm paranoid; back it up with facts of why this invasion will probably never happen.

That's exactly what all of you have done. You affirmed the logical side of my brain and quieted the anxious side.

Thank You.

Мы рады помочь другу. Кстати. Нравится ли вам свекольный суп?


What type of soup?

I feel like this is a reference that I am not getting.

Borscht ?

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 Post subject: Re: Remember Crimea?
PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2016 7:55 pm 
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