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PostPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2016 4:27 pm 
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I’ve read of people running out of their homes or workplaces to escape criminals who are breaking in.

If you have enough prior warning then obviously it is best to be long gone before the bad guys show up, but we don’t always get that kind of warning. On the other hand, sometimes people get a little more warning than the sound of their door crashing in while they’re sitting on the toilet. I’m wondering in those situations how good of an option running really is. Obviously this would depend on the situation. It’s going to be different depending on the person, the location, and what the criminals are after.

So I’ll lay out a more specific scenario, but feel free to come up with your own scenarios or talk in generalities.


Scenario:
You’re by yourself at a rural farm house. You hear a vehicle pull up. You look out your kitchen window into the front yard and see several armed strangers getting out of a car and a big pickup truck pulling in behind them.

You’re wearing your normal clothes, shoes and EDC. It’s 25*F/-3.9*C outside, with a slight breeze and no clouds. Your jacket, BOB and a pump-shotgun are by the front door, which is the door nearest to the scary guys. You have a hat and gloves stuffed in the pockets of your jacket, and the shotgun is loaded 4+1 with buckshot in the tube and slugs in a butt cuff.

Your front and back doors are sturdy and you’ve installed aftermarket kits to harden them up some. Your bedroom, while not a hardcore bunker of a saferoom, has a sturdy door with a deadbolt, 3M film over the window, a dresser that can be tipped over in front of the door and a spot where you can cover the door while not being seen from the window. You have pre-positioned a long gun, first aid kit, fire extinguisher and land-line telephone in your bedroom. You have no pre-positioned emergency stuff by the backdoor or anywhere else nearby other than what’s by the front door or in your car (which is parked right next to the scary people).

Law enforcement usually takes 45 minutes to an hour to get out to where you live, due to the rural setting.

Your house is surrounded by an open hay field (ETA: the hay has been mown, so there is no significant concealment). If you take a right or left it is fifty yards to the treeline, but you would be you would be out in the wide open. If you head straight back it’s 120 yards to the treeline, but it would keep the house between you and where they are parked. There are no outbuildings that you could manage to sneak to and hide in.

There’s a couple inches of snow on the ground. It’s not particularly crunchy or squeaky to walk on. You would leave tracks, but not extremely deep ones that would be obvious from far away. The sun is below the horizon, but it’s not yet dark out in the open.

Your nearest neighbors are a quarter-mile away on the other side of the road. It is mostly open terrain between you and them. Another neighbor is a half mile away. You can to his place through the woods, but there is a creek you would have to cross and you’re sure to get wet. Your third nearest neighbors are mile away, and you could get to their house through the woods. You’re not sure if any of your neighbors are home, and you don’t know their phone numbers of the top of your head.

If you head straight to the bedroom you’re sure to get inside, get the door locked and dial 911 before they get inside your house.

If you run straight for the back door you’re sure that you can get outside before any of them get all the way around your house with a view out the back, but if one or more did head for the back of your house you probably wouldn’t have made it all the way to the far treeline before they round the corner (remember if you go for the closer treelines people in the front yard will have line of sight).

It will take a few seconds off your lead to get anything from near the front door before running out the back. If you sprint towards the front door you might be seen through a window. If you scamper on your hands and knees you probably won’t be seen but it will take even longer.

You can keep looking through the kitchen window to try to see how many of them there are and if any are heading around back. You might be spotted through the window, and of course it burns up more time. You can dial 911 at the same time you do this.

(For the purposes of this scenario let’s assume you’re not anyone special who might be a target for kidnapping or assassination, but like most farmsteads you have a bunch of valuable tools and equipment.)


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2016 4:50 pm 
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My .02 for what you paid for it.
Car+big truck means anywhere between 6 (4 in the car + 2 in the truck) and 11 (5 in the car + 6 in the truck) assailants. They're armed, so they're expecting trouble. 1 against 4 with adequate surprise and ferocity, maybe. 1 against 6 to 11 without surprise is suicide. Law enforcement takes 45 minutes to get there, and without a serious saferoom, you've got only a few minutes with of holdout time. So, you have to bug out.

It subfreezing out. Having worked in a warehouse held just above freezing, I can say that adequate exertion will keep you warm. But, if you don't have warm clothes when you stop and you've been sweating (like from a headlong dash), hypothermia will set in quickly. Bolting without warm clothes is a high risk strategy and probably your last resort. Against this is the extra seconds it will take to grab your stuff from the front door. I see two courses of action: first is you can get your stuff and get out the back door without being seen. In which case go straight back to the woods keeping the house between them and you. Second is you're seen, in which case you take the shorter route into the woods and use the shotgun to provide suppressing fire while your moving. In either case, once you're in the woods, rely on stealth and head for the neighbor across the stream.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2016 7:27 pm 
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Interesting.

I have a farm and this scenario sounds like it could in theory anyway happen to me. I have slightly different alternatives available (which I think turn the tables just a bit in my favor) but I will stick to the scenario you provided.

I would first make sure I do not know them (don't ask :lol:) or that they are not obviously hunters.

Close_enough wrote:
Car+big truck means anywhere between 6 (4 in the car + 2 in the truck) and 11 (5 in the car + 6 in the truck) assailants. They're armed, so they're expecting trouble. 1 against 4 with adequate surprise and ferocity, maybe. 1 against 6 to 11 without surprise is suicide. Law enforcement takes 45 minutes to get there, and without a serious saferoom, you've got only a few minutes with of holdout time. So, you have to bug out.


However, I think this is an excellent logic string.

Even with a safe room and a semi-auto centerfire rifle this is not likely to end well for you. A hasty retreat with the nearest available weapon is in order. Take a picture of them with your cell phone (assuming you have cell service) and email it to your significant other as you are running the hell away also comes to mind so when they find your body they know who did it.

I would run to the nearest neighbor assuming of course it was not him coming over with his buddies.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2016 9:23 pm 
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I have a saying. If somebody breaks into your house while you're there, They probably aren't after your big screen tv.
Go to the front door and retrieve the bag and shotty. It doesn't matter if they see you because they already know you're there. When they get to your front door stand back and challenge them. I take it that the purpose of this scenario is that an actual home invasion is occurring. If there is a position that gives you cover while leaving you able to shoot at both entrances and still leave a open way of retreat to the bedroom , take it. Bedroom will be Alamo. By now you should have called 911. Leave it on . FIre the shot gun until there is no time to reload , then go to your side arm. If your position becomes untenable retreat to the bedroom. If there was no position go directly to bedroom. Lock and barricade the door, continue the fight. I would point out here that in my bedroom is more formidable firearms. I would have grabbed these when entering. You only have to hold out til the Calvary arrives. More than likely if you have shot one or two the rest will high tail it I would also point out that since it's rural. If an actual firefight was occurring your neighbors would be arriving way before the Police based on the 45 min response time. At least my neighbors would. They would not be bringing pie or cookies. :vmad: Image

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2016 9:36 pm 
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Just a thought but if 10-12 guys show up armed and ready at night it sounds like they are coming for you not your stuff. We might want to think outside our own survival here. If we flee to a neighbors home and the group follows us we might be bringing death to an innocent family(haven't you ever seen horror movies :) ). I would hate to think my attempt to save my own hide would result in the death of an innocent family with kids. They don't sound like the type to leave potential witnesses alive. So if I only have that shotgun I might decide instead to flee to land I know that's away from the neighbors and either hide or make a stand there.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2016 9:44 pm 
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I have considered something similar, and I think this is a very good question. In my particular case I have fences, gates, and very close neighbors. I have wondered if someone aggressively assaults my front door if I would be better off trying to retrieve a carbine (fairly close to the front door, but in a side room with only window to escape from) or just skedaddling out the back door. It would be a very short run from the backdoor to cover (would have decent odds of getting there before the perp made the back door) with several avenues of escape, but the question is then if the perp had a buddy laying in wait at the back door I'd be fairly hosed.
I also think that almost any spot in my house could be reached by bullets from outside the house, leaving my basement the only safe place, it has a reasonably concealed entrance that would be impossible to enter without me allowing them, but it isn't large and I wouldn't like my odds with anyone shooting down through the floor.

In the OPs scenario I'd be hesitant to leave the house unless I was very confident no one had snuck around the back and I knew I could make cover without being spotted. If not I'd probably go for an initial ambush/aggressive show of force (at the front door presumably) and then high tail it to which ever part of the house could protect me from bullets from the most directions and wait for the calvary.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2016 10:06 pm 
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You know it occurs to me that even though we all attempt to follow the description given by the OP. Our responses are all influenced by our own respective rural homes.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2016 11:11 pm 
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raptor wrote:
I have a farm and this scenario sounds like it could in theory anyway happen to me. I have slightly different alternatives available (which I think turn the tables just a bit in my favor) but I will stick to the scenario you provided.

flybynight wrote:
You know it occurs to me that even though we all attempt to follow the description given by the OP. Our responses are all influenced by our own respective rural homes.

I provided a scenario, but I'm totally fine with people adapting the scenario to their own personal situation or coming up with their own hypothetical scenarios. My original plan was to make a thread in CP&P about barricading or running if you had a few seconds warning, but for some reason I felt like making a WWYD scenario.

I'm currently living in a rural homestead, but my situation isn't exactly as described in the scenario. My neighbors are closer, and while I have hundreds of yards of hay fields in most directions there is one direction out the back where the woods are ~70 yards away and the house, outbuildings and some bushes would help conceal me while I was running away. This is assuming the weather is like I said it was, and not -30*F with howling wind and several feet of snow on the ground. I could also possibly hide in some of the outbuildings.

RonnyRonin wrote:
In the OPs scenario I'd be hesitant to leave the house unless I was very confident no one had snuck around the back and I knew I could make cover without being spotted. If not I'd probably go for an initial ambush/aggressive show of force (at the front door presumably) and then high tail it to which ever part of the house could protect me from bullets from the most directions and wait for the calvary.

In hindsight, I'd guess anyone looking to pull off a home invasion on a rural property would probably park out of sight and walk in, rather than driving right up into the front yard. Looking up and seeing a few armed strangers creeping up on foot would make me way more worried about someone having snuck around the back. Not that there isn't a chance that someone had come in earlier and snuck around the back in my original scenario. I'm not sure why some would come in sneaky and some would come in hot in such a scenario, but just because I can't think of a reason off the top of my head doesn't mean that there isn't a reason to do it.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2016 11:32 pm 
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flybynight wrote:
I have a saying. If somebody breaks into your house while you're there, They probably aren't after your big screen tv.

The Twizzler wrote:
Just a thought but if 10-12 guys show up armed and ready at night it sounds like they are coming for you not your stuff.

My understanding of rural home invasions, which is based almost entirely on hearsay and not on dilligent research, is that often the robbers come in heavily armed with quite a few people. They are there for your stuff, but they plan to take their time and force you to show them where everything is. Such robbers might kill you even if you show them where everything is and help them load the truck. Again, this is based only on what people have told me and while it makes sense to me it could all be bullshit.

My understanding is that robberies like these are very rare, but in certain circumstances their likelihood goes up. FerFAL mentioned well planned and extremely violent robberies of rural farms during the Argentinian economic collapse. Not something I worry about too much now but something that might become a bigger threat in the future. Right now I'm far more worried about accidentally running into a couple criminals who thought nobody was home and then panic.

Still, you guys are right in that a couple vehicles worth of criminals coming in when a person is obviously home probably does mean they are after you. I specified earlier that there is no particular reason why you would be the target of a hit or ransom scheme, but sometimes people make mistakes. Maybe they are after a drug dealer, and they got the wrong address. Maybe you told a joke a while back that turned into a rumor that you had been putting all your money into gold coins and burying them in cans around your property.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2016 1:17 am 
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Close_enough wrote:
My .02 for what you paid for it.
Car+big truck means anywhere between 6 (4 in the car + 2 in the truck) and 11 (5 in the car + 6 in the truck) assailants. They're armed, so they're expecting trouble. 1 against 4 with adequate surprise and ferocity, maybe. 1 against 6 to 11 without surprise is suicide. Law enforcement takes 45 minutes to get there, and without a serious saferoom, you've got only a few minutes with of holdout time. So, you have to bug out.

You're right, with two vehicles it's pretty unlikely that there's less than six people. Originally I was thinking about four guys in a car. Then at the last minute I threw in a truck so that they'd have a way to haul off bulkier stuff.

With four bad guys the odds are still bad, but I don't know that I have a number pinned down where it is more dangerous to run and when it is more dangerous to stay. If the scenario happened somewhere with a police response time of a few minutes then barricading would probably generally be the better choice, but with the police being so far away that plan gets dodgier. On the other hand the wide open fields between the house and the woods (seems to be a fairly common situation for farm houses) and the bad weather make successfully escaping tricky.

Close_enough wrote:
It subfreezing out. Having worked in a warehouse held just above freezing, I can say that adequate exertion will keep you warm. But, if you don't have warm clothes when you stop and you've been sweating (like from a headlong dash), hypothermia will set in quickly. Bolting without warm clothes is a high risk strategy and probably your last resort. Against this is the extra seconds it will take to grab your stuff from the front door. I see two courses of action: first is you can get your stuff and get out the back door without being seen. In which case go straight back to the woods keeping the house between them and you. Second is you're seen, in which case you take the shorter route into the woods and use the shotgun to provide suppressing fire while your moving. In either case, once you're in the woods, rely on stealth and head for the neighbor across the stream.

My initial idea was to just run for it without going for my coat or the shotgun (and the BOB seems like it would just be extra weight unless, like The Twizzler mentioned, a person planned to hide in the woods to avoid bringing trouble to the neighbors). I know that I can walk for hours at 25*F without winter gear and not get too cold. Like you said, though, this would likely be a sprint that would work up a sweat followed by slowing down to get through the woods. There's also a decent chance I might twist an ankle or otherwise hurt a leg and not be able to move very fast, or that I would have to spend some time hiding tin the bushes and trying to remain as still as possible.

I think your plan of grabbing stuff from the front door and then either going straight out the back or taking the shorter, more visible route depending on whether or not you had been seen makes a lot of sense.

I think I'd be inclined to take the longer route to the neighbor a mile away if it meant that I didn't have to cross a creek. If I fell and ended up totally soaked I don't think I could move fast enough to keep my body temperature up. I'm kind of clumsy.

The Twizzler wrote:
So if I only have that shotgun I might decide instead to flee to land I know that's away from the neighbors and either hide or make a stand there.

flybynight wrote:
I would point out here that in my bedroom is more formidable firearms.

Yep, I put a shotgun by the door as an example of something that is pretty common for farmers to keep next to the door for more normal situations, and because while it wouldn't be too bad for such normal scenarios it really isn't well suited for trying to hold out against several home invaders. In the bedroom I just specified a long gun, but it can be a whatever a person wants (within reason, no phaser rifles set to wide beam).

I guess a person could run to their bedroom and get the long gun before fleeing, but then they wouldn't be grabbing their coat. Maybe grab a blanket instead?

Also, if a person has a handgun as part of their EDC they would have that. It might make fleeing without grabbing the shotgun a more attractive option. About half the time I have pepper spray, and about half the time I have pepper spray and a j-frame, so obviously I'm well prepared to fight off ten robbers. :clownshoes:

flybynight wrote:
You only have to hold out til the Calvary arrives. More than likely if you have shot one or two the rest will high tail it I would also point out that since it's rural. If an actual firefight was occurring your neighbors would be arriving way before the Police based on the 45 min response time. At least my neighbors would. They would not be bringing pie or cookies. :vmad

Maybe they would run. If it's obvious someone is home (lights on, car parked out front) and it's a rural house I would assume they expect the occupants to have firearms in the house, but it's possible they assume you're the kind of guy who has an unloaded .30-30 in the back of the closet underneath a pile of dirty clothes and if they kick in the door with enough guys you'll immediately surrender. Maybe if they mistakenly think they're robbing a drug dealer getting shot at wouldn't surprise them (again, I probably made a mistake in thinking they would drive into the front yard if this was the case). I just don't know.

The neighbors part is interesting. I know that if it's daylight and I hear a bunch of shooting it doesn't attract my attention. Maybe a gunfight sounds a lot different than the neighbors firing off a lot of rounds in their backyard for fun? I've never been around a gunfight, so I wouldn't know. One or two shots definitely gets my attention. The scenario I originally posted was more at a twilight time of day, so maybe that would make a difference.

I've taken shots at animals in the middle of the night and have never had anyone come over to investigate. I have family members just a few hundred yards away, and me shooting a shotgun failed to wake them. On the other hand, I've (very cautiously) gone to investigate shooting that I though sounded suspicious. A bunch of shooting at an unusual time might also attract more attention.

Years ago in the middle of the summer we accidentally kept shooting late into the night. It doesn't get dark here in the summer, so we were shooting past midnight and didn't realize it. :oops: That same night a few miles away a well known local thief tried to flee from the police across the swamps. By morning the two things had merged into a rumor that the thief had got into a shootout with the police near our house. :lol:

I've been kicking around the idea of starting a thread in CP&P of how to come to the aid of a neighbor under attack (when appropriate to do so) without getting mistaken for another robber and shot. A lot of people talk about forming some sort of neighborhood watch/town militia if TSHTF in a big way, so it seems like it would be worthy of a thread. In the NAW my family has three houses within a few hundred yards of each other, and it takes the police a long time to respond due to distance, so it seems like something we should plan for but unfortunately we haven't done so.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2016 2:20 am 
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I have heard gunfights. A pair of armed robbers got into it with the cops not far from where I lived. It sounded like a string of mismatched firecrackers going of. Fast, with no discernable rhythm. A very large shooting range sounds similar, the type of thing you can hear on a Marine base..


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2016 10:22 am 
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Quote:
My understanding of rural home invasions, which is based almost entirely on hearsay and not on dilligent research, is that often the robbers come in heavily armed with quite a few people. They are there for your stuff, but they plan to take their time and force you to show them where everything is. Such robbers might kill you even if you show them where everything is and help them load the truck. Again, this is based only on what people have told me and while it makes sense to me it could all be bullshit.


Most of the time they are there for your weed and your meth. Any money that you might have laying around from the weed and meth sales would be nice too. They won't kill you unless you give them a hard time or don't give them what you want or you have been taking their business. You aren't going to call the police and tell them someone stole your meth (well maybe not).

A (much more rare) rural home invasion looking strictly for money will often turn in to an abduction and kidnapping extortion scheme where someone goes to the bank while everyone else is held hostage. This sometimes turns into a murder, rarely ends well. If you live by yourself, don't have a drug operation, don't have a lot of money and you are not Jason Bourne then they are at the wrong house.

These are rare because a burglary is much easier and much safer. This will be the "B" team bunch of retards if they are doing a home invasion looking for money and you don't have much.

Unless we are talking about the PAW-WROL, in which case many of the dynamics may change.

So in this case I would haul ass if I were a runner heading into the woods away from everything. If I am not a runner I grab the shotgun then haul ass towards the neighbors. (My neighbor actually always has a rifle on him, either on his tractor or four wheeler). Six guys are not there to steal your farm tools.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2016 11:23 am 
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I'm old.
ZombieGramps is old.

Our only choice is to barricade the house and shoot until we can't.
Either until help comes, one batch of us is dead, we're out of ammo, or they leave.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2016 11:56 am 
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Now that I'm semi-retired, I have more time to see the gaping holes in my home security situation and invest in solutions. My job of the last 21 years well informs me as to the likely identity of my intruders. My current and probably future job won't narrow it down much.

I've started to set up cameras to monitor activity to the property line as well as video doorbells for the front and side doors. The cams generate screenshots when any significant movement occurs and posts them to a dedicated hard drive mirrored on a cloud based website.

The hope is that the cam network becomes a sort of Distant Early Warning system so that should I relocate to Free America and buy a home similar to the one in the scenario I can amend the time point of reaction to the turnoff from the road onto my property. I would also have a substantial gate and some sort of gatekeeper tech running. Invaders would have to either announce themselves, breach the gate, or breach the fence, at which point their intentions would be clear.
Anyone that announced themselves might be legit, might be LEOs with a warrant. putting their faces and bonafides on screencaps could go a long way to resolving the issue peacefully. The data could then be vetted by a known LEO and the matter resolved in a courtroom.

Anyone that breached the gate or fence in a property destroying manner should be considered hostile tangos and immediately serviced with the rifle, probably the M1A I SAFEd sitting on my dresser right now. Twelve uninvited armed guests driving towards the house in two trucks won't be. Then the matter would be settled on my front lawn, maybe not like this:


Should I manage to ID anyone involved but not caught:


I have been looking to invest in my own Codsworth, but the thruster part doesn't seem to exist yet.
I think this chassis should be available on the cheap fairly soon.
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For the most part I only need it to harass and flank anyone using vehicles for cover. I will do the rest.

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I'd invite them in for dinner, serve them drug laced whatever and then spend the rest of their suddenly shortened lives making a P.O.V. horror film.

A crew like that rolling up on a house isn't accidental. They've got a purpose and a plan and I don't intend to be part of it. Realistically, I'd haul ass.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2016 1:40 pm 
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quazi wrote:
I provided a scenario, but I'm totally fine with people adapting the scenario to their own personal situation or coming up with their own hypothetical scenarios. My original plan was to make a thread in CP&P about barricading or running if you had a few seconds warning, but for some reason I felt like making a WWYD scenario.


OK with the above in mind. I think I have few advantages but also a few disadvantages.

In my case I have a drainage ditch that lines the road along my farm. This ditch acts a decent barrier to anything short of a tracked vehicle. Even 4 wheelers have issues with it. The property then has a decent but not tall fence with barbed wire around the property line behind the ditch. The fence can be jumped and is not much of a barrier to any adult. Still it takes time to traverse.

My house cannot be seen from the street and the driveway bends. So they will not be able to see where I am in regards to the house. That and the driveway is narrow and there is only one way in by vehicle so I know exactly the path they will be taking. There is also a decent (but not pickup truck battering ram proof) gate. It will likely slow down and make a lot of noise for anyone who is not opening it. I should have enough time to react. If I see them on the CCTV I will have plenty of time.

There are also 2 cctv cameras pointed at the gate for different angles. One camera is obvious and accessible (it is the bait) the other is not obvious and is aimed so that anyone taking out the other camera on foot will be seen clearly. I also have an alarm system tied into the cctv which is monitored.

Obviously in a PAW the above are useless but in this scenario the ROL applies.

The only realistic reason for a group like this to show up IMO is:

1.) Drug dealers make a mistake and show up at the wrong house for the wrong person.
(There are meth makers in these parts and they are violent.)

2.) Strong arm robbery and kidnapping for some obscure reason.
(note: For the record I would not pay a cent in ransom for me. :wink:)

3.) Disgruntled neighbor - Not very likely but within the realm of possibilities.
If I recognized them as neighbors I would likely walk out them and engage them in conversation in attempt to defuse the situation as well as to remind them to smile, they are CCTV and the alarm company has called the 911 as well as the other 2 emergency contacts and I am on the phone with 911. So I will discount this threat and deal with the other two.

If I did not recognize them and they had battered down my gate, I would have time to the get the M4orgery that I keep to deal with coyotes and feral pigs in the yard. If I was certain they were not LEOs I would likely dump a magazine into whatever targets presented themselves to sow confusion and buy me a little time. I would then lock the front door and exit the rear. I always carry my cell phone and I assume that would be with me. The "coyote gun" has a spare mag attached to it and I would then high tail it into the 120 acres of woods that surround me on 3 sides. It is less than 30 yards from my back door to the woods. There are also several spots that I use as cover/blinds when dealing with coyotes in the yard at night. If I received return fire I could take cover in one of the spots. Obviously a single position/shooter can be pinned down and flanked. That and with just a single magazine I do not give myself very good odds against even 4 determined attackers. Still I could use the cell phone to call a neighbor who lives about 1/4 mile away.

That said, stiff resistant may make the less dedicated among them flee and if they wanted me alive for whatever reason they would have to pay a price that may make them decide to go elsewhere.

I think I have this type of frontal assault addressed as well as I can (not saying it is perfect or even that I would survive it 1 against 4 to 11 people is a tough scenario for anyone who is not current SF). The one that gives heartburn is the opposite where these folks hop the fence use the same woods I would run to for concealment and surround the house before they try a less obvious frontal assault like the old my car is broken can you help me routine.

If that is the case I think I am boned if I do anything except stay in the house.

The good news is that in this house I had the doors replaced with steel doors and frames along with decent locks. the windows are replaced to Miami Dade county wind and impact standards. Now none of these items make the house impervious to forceful entry but it does slow the intruders.

In this case I would fire shoot the M4forgery through the door to discourage the intruders and go to an interior room without windows (laundry room) and make them come get me. The good news is that I would have more ammo, the bad news is that the obvious solution for them is to set fire to the house with me in it. Not a good outcome.

Still the CCTV would have the video via the internet, at least until they find and cut the feed to the satellite dish.


One final note the rural area in MS actually has a LEO response time actually much better than the NOPD response time in NOLA. The last time I called the MS LEO they showed for a non-emergency call within ~30 minutes. The last time I called the NOPD for a similar type call it took 2 days for an NOPD to show up. :wink:

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As I do not live in the sticks I would most likely be bugged out already with ShoeDaddy. In that case, our scenario would entail getting his kidlet upstairs, and locked away safe whilst he, his wife, and I proceed to lay down an unholy amount of fire from the front windows.

I'd have brought my Tavor (complete with 6 p-mags fully loaded), he and the missus would have a variety pack of M4orgeries, FALgeries, and several semi-auto handguns to choose from, and several hundred rounds pre-packed into mags. And I'm not kidding about the ammo count, he has mags EVERYWHERE in that house.

Between the 3 of us, and the element of surprise, I'm wagering at least 1/4 to 1/2 of them would fall within the first few shots, the rest would either take cover, or decide that this is not worth it.




Barring that scenario, we'd grab the kidlet, any BOB we have handy, and GTFO to the neighbor's house, less than .5km away.

Woe be upon the bastard(s) who decides to mess with THAT house in the middle of winter...

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phoenixmastm wrote:
As I do not live in the sticks I would most likely be bugged out already with ShoeDaddy. In that case, our scenario would entail getting his kidlet upstairs, and locked away safe whilst he, his wife, and I proceed to lay down an unholy amount of fire from the front windows.

I'd have brought my Tavor (complete with 6 p-mags fully loaded), he and the missus would have a variety pack of M4orgeries, FALgeries, and several semi-auto handguns to choose from, and several hundred rounds pre-packed into mags. And I'm not kidding about the ammo count, he has mags EVERYWHERE in that house.

Between the 3 of us, and the element of surprise, I'm wagering at least 1/4 to 1/2 of them would fall within the first few shots, the rest would either take cover, or decide that this is not worth it.

Barring that scenario, we'd grab the kidlet, any BOB we have handy, and GTFO to the neighbor's house, less than .5km away.

Woe be upon the bastard(s) who decides to mess with THAT house in the middle of winter...


And what do you expect the neighbour to do if they see three adults carrying massive firepower towards their house after hearing the aforementioned reign of hellfire?

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Based on the scenario as best as possible.....

The hostiles have simply pulled up in front and parked their vehicles in the yard. So not a SWAT team, CIA rendition hit or military with black helicopters circling.

They have a 7 to 1 or greater advantage in manpower so the house might as well be called The Alamo if you stay anywhere on the farm.

I am assuming they are there to loot the premises or else they would have immediately driven one vehicle around the back to cut off escape.

No time to bother calling 911 on the landline.

Put on my jacket, put on the BOB and grab the shotgun from the front door area. Do not sling the shotgun. Grab the rifle from the bedroom, sling it over my shoulder and head for the back door.

As I exit the door and see someone I use the shotgun on them. If no one is there I drop the shotgun and haul ass straight back to the treeline. If they shoot at me I won't return fire unless I have to. They might drive their vehicles to the treeline and chase me so I need to gain as much distance as possible as it gets dark. I would count on their greed to cause them to return to quickly loot my house.

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The concern that keeps popping into my head is that if they have put all of that effort into the intimidating frontal attack -why wouldn't they do what I think I would do in this situation? Which is, surround the area first and be prepared to shoot or capture anyone sneaking out the back.

Given this thought, I think I would call 911, grab the shotgun by the door, maybe attempt to warn them away from a position of cover and/or retreat to my fortified armory and prepare to hold out until police arrive. If 911 hears a gun battle I believe they will get there faster than normal and probably bring armored cars and helicopters.

Another concern I have is that I usually have small kids around the house. They would be on the top of my mind. If they were around, I would definitely not try to run.

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Dabster wrote:
Another concern I have is that I usually have small kids around the house. They would be on the top of my mind. If they were around, I would definitely not try to run.



Now the OP in this scenario said that we were alone.

However, you bring up a good point in the situation where there are kids and others around that would greatly complicate any armed initial response.

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raptor wrote:
Dabster wrote:
Another concern I have is that I usually have small kids around the house. They would be on the top of my mind. If they were around, I would definitely not try to run.



Now the OP in this scenario said that we were alone.

However, you bring up a good point in the situation where there are kids and others around that would greatly complicate any armed initial response.


Being alone makes flight the wise and easy option. With small kids securing them first would obviously take top priority for most people. We had a home invasion last year where the mother and her boyfriend ran off leaving two small kids behind (everyone involved except the kids were tweakers). Meth heads don't make the best parents normally. The kids were unharmed but it was a long night.

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Yes. There no way I am leaving kids to the tender mercies of 11 +/- armed folks.

I suspect my response (no small kids in my house anymore so with hypothetical kids) would be to tell the kids to run while I engage in a half assed holding action for as long as possible to give them a chance to run away to safety.

If they were toddlers I am not sure what I would do.

It would not be a good day but ..."rage, rage against the dying of the light do not go gentle into that good night" comes to mind.

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On the off chance you think savages won't kill children...
http://abc7.com/news/robbers-fatally-sh ... e/1609180/

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