No Guns here

Discuss those "what if" or "what would you do" scenarios you've been wondering about.

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Re: No Guns here

Post by DarkAxel » Fri Nov 11, 2016 11:56 pm

If I were in your shoes I'd buy a crossbow and a recurve bow and practice up on both.
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Re: No Guns here

Post by Stercutus » Sat Nov 12, 2016 12:02 am

Your scenario is a no-win. A bow would allow you to some game while hiding out in the woods for a while. Maybe after the invaders drink all the Scotch they will leave?
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Re: No Guns here

Post by Close_enough » Sat Nov 12, 2016 2:12 pm

Dumb question: What is to prevent you from going through the process and getting the necessary paperwork and equipment to legally own a hunting rifle or shotgun? It sounds inconvenient, but if your neighbors can get them...

Second: Barring a gun, for hunting, a modern crossbow or vertical bow is probably your best option.

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Re: No Guns here

Post by Hiroshima_Morphine » Sat Nov 12, 2016 3:53 pm

As an American, the only thing I can compare this to is NFA items.

I could go through the paperwork. Which is a lengthy, expensive process which may or may not actually result in me getting the item I want . And if I don't, my info is on record for even applying.

Repeat process for every item wanted.

And that's why I don't own NFA items.

If I lived in the U.K. I'd have a bow.

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Re: No Guns here

Post by ManInBlack316 » Sat Nov 12, 2016 4:27 pm

I'm gonna second (third? didn't count) the bow option, with a preference to crossbows as you can carry it ready to fire, although my knowledge of bows and crossbows is fooling around with them in people's backyards.
If you're concerned about Ruskie's invading, I'd suggest studying up on camouflage and work on making your bunker as invisible as possible. Your bunker sounds like a great asset though, one I cannot get here in Florida.

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Re: No Guns here

Post by quazi » Sat Nov 12, 2016 6:19 pm

In addition to normal bows and crossbows, it might be worth checking out some of Joerg Sprave's crazy repeating slingshot crossbow contraptions.

He's also done some testing of commercial spearguns as well as his own air-powered arrow/bolt launchers. They aren't "airguns" in the sense that they don't shoot pellets but instead shoot projectiles that slide on over top of a stem (think something like a really dangerous nerf gun). Under German law they are considered toys, but I don't know what they'd be considered under UK law.

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Re: No Guns here

Post by Ad'lan » Sun Nov 13, 2016 3:27 am

quazi wrote:In addition to normal bows and crossbows, it might be worth checking out some of Joerg Sprave's crazy repeating slingshot crossbow contraptions.

He's also done some testing of commercial spearguns as well as his own air-powered arrow/bolt launchers. They aren't "airguns" in the sense that they don't shoot pellets but instead shoot projectiles that slide on over top of a stem (think something like a really dangerous nerf gun). Under German law they are considered toys, but I don't know what they'd be considered under UK law.
AFAIK, the UK laws are flexible enough that it'd be down to the CPS to decide what to charge you with, but if it generated enough power, you could easily be prosecuted for firearms crimes.
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Re: No Guns here

Post by flybynight » Sun Nov 13, 2016 11:44 am

Although i am not advocating theft, if all the local aristocracy and farmers were to high tail it out of here what is left is a plethora of farms and several large lockups containing rifles, shotguns and ammunition.
What possible scenario are you envisioning that they would all leave, and you would not? And that this event would leave you alive or the freedom of movement to even attempt to retrieve these weapons?
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Re: No Guns here

Post by Hiroshima_Morphine » Mon Nov 14, 2016 1:37 pm

......

Flybynight, you really could fuck up someone else's wet dream! :clap:

Warpigs: I did it again....

NFA - National Firearms Act of 1934. A quick concise definition would be the law in the US that classifies all firearms into certain categories then further specifies what catergories are to be governed in what way. But more to the point, usually when someone says 'an NFA item' they are referring to a class 3 item. Which are automatic weapons, RPGs, bazookas, grenade launchers and anything in excess of a caliber of .50, excluding shotguns. The law specifies that the sale/transfer of these weapons will be monitored and tracked by the Federal government (originally it was the FBI [Federal Bureau of Investigation] today the BATFE [Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives]) and that all weapons falling into this class will be registered with the appropriate department.

It is the closest thing to a National gun registry we have.

So, my fellow Americans, the next time we want to complain about gun laws, remember our friends in the U.K.
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Re: No Guns here

Post by Close_enough » Mon Nov 14, 2016 3:04 pm

ManInBlack316 wrote:I'm gonna second (third? didn't count) the bow option, with a preference to crossbows as you can carry it ready to fire, although my knowledge of bows and crossbows is fooling around with them in people's backyards.
If you're concerned about Ruskie's invading, I'd suggest studying up on camouflage and work on making your bunker as invisible as possible. Your bunker sounds like a great asset though, one I cannot get here in Florida.
Crossbows are easier to use then vertical bows, but require more maintenance (hunting weight crossbows tend to need new strings every few hundred shots vs few thousand for most vertical bows). If you're willing to put in the time and money to learn how to maintain them, and stockpile spare parts, they're a viable weapon.

QFT about staying out of sight during a war. Taking a hunting rifle, and expecting to survive against professional infantry with automatic weapons and mortars, and backed up by heavy artillery, helicopters, tanks, and fixed wing aircraft is only realistic in video games with a "God Mode" cheat. To cite an example of how effective staying out of site can be;(I'm not praising this nutter) do you remember Eric Rudolph? He blew up a couple of abortion clinics and the Atlanta Olympics to make the FBI's ten most wanted list. He then went to ground in the Appalachian mountains. Despite the law enforcement community's best efforts, he was able to elude capture for five years.

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Re: No Guns here

Post by Hiroshima_Morphine » Mon Nov 14, 2016 4:38 pm

Close_enough wrote:
ManInBlack316 wrote:I'm gonna second (third? didn't count) the bow option, with a preference to crossbows as you can carry it ready to fire, although my knowledge of bows and crossbows is fooling around with them in people's backyards.
If you're concerned about Ruskie's invading, I'd suggest studying up on camouflage and work on making your bunker as invisible as possible. Your bunker sounds like a great asset though, one I cannot get here in Florida.
Crossbows are easier to use then vertical bows, but require more maintenance (hunting weight crossbows tend to need new strings every few hundred shots vs few thousand for most vertical bows). If you're willing to put in the time and money to learn how to maintain them, and stockpile spare parts, they're a viable weapon.

QFT about staying out of sight during a war. Taking a hunting rifle, and expecting to survive against professional infantry with automatic weapons and mortars, and backed up by heavy artillery, helicopters, tanks, and fixed wing aircraft is only realistic in video games with a "God Mode" cheat. To cite an example of how effective staying out of site can be;(I'm not praising this nutter) do you remember Eric Rudolph? He blew up a couple of abortion clinics and the Atlanta Olympics to make the FBI's ten most wanted list. He then went to ground in the Appalachian mountains. Despite the law enforcement community's best efforts, he was able to elude capture for five years.
The best part of that story is desperation drove him to eating out of a dumpster in Murphy, N.C., when the local Barney Fife tried to run the 'homeless bum' off, Homeless Bum says 'I'm Erik Robert Rudolph.' Barney Fife didn't believe, continued to try and run him off. Finally arrested him because they guy wouldn't leave.

They booked him, and finger prints showed, 'holy shit! This guy really is the Olympic Bomber!'

I lived in Atlanta during the Olympics and near Murphy when he basically turned himself in. It was a big deal down there.
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Re: No Guns here

Post by Black Beard » Mon Nov 14, 2016 6:37 pm

Unless you have a criminal history, you can get a shotgun. No "good reason" needed. You will need a cabinet for the gun but not the cartridges. It isn't difficult, particularly in the wilds of Scotland where they are not worried about gang violence. You fill in a form, buy a cabinet and be nice to the firearms liason officer when he visits. The airguns are harder (in Scotland- in England we can still own them without licenses) and you will probably need land with permission to shoot or a approved club (very few in Scotland). Forget about a rifle unless you want to take up target shooting or pest control. You can't legally shoot people with a gun under any circumstances. Not even an air gun.

This is important: there is not enough wild animals in the UK to feed the population for more than 3 days. If you rely on foraging, you will starve with everyone else. Farms are protected by farmers, who are very protective of their property and won't take any stick. If you are worried about a PAW, a few hundred pounds will buy you enough food to last a year. This is the smart, low risk and reliable option.

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Re: No Guns here

Post by Herkemer » Sat Nov 19, 2016 7:35 pm

I've been hearing the "Gun Foraging" thing a lot recently in real life and its always present on the ole interwebs.

Things I always hear are....

1. I'm a gonna buy the same kinda gun the cops and army uses, that way I gots a steady ammo and parts supply.
2. There will be a lot of it left on the battlefield I can pick up.
3. (In association with the OP's topic) There will be duck guns and deer rifles in those there houses/farms/Rick folks Scotch factories/Castles that they just up and left.

1. ???? They're not supposed to "Trade". If they are "Trading", they are not what you think they are, and you're not only stupid, but you're about to be in a world of shit.

2. Good for you that you think that you can win a standup gunfight with Law Enforcement/Army. Good luck with that. If you are thinking you are going to "Forage" a battlefield were they won, you are thinking wrong and have put yourself in a bad situation. There is no, I repeat NO, operational unit of anything that is going to leave ANYTHING behind on a battlefield for you to "Forage". What isn't taken, will be put in a pile and burned.

Annddd....

3. Like anyone else living in this solar system, when something goes way south at the ole casa, the first thing out of my mouth is "Honey, I'm getting the gun." I don't think I am alone in that. Soooo, what on earth makes you think there would be any firearm anywhere to "Forage"? Before food water damn near anything, that weapon is going with the Rich Scotch farm Castle owner out the door with them. In my case, if I gotta go forever, I'm taking what I can, then, REFER TO #2, the rest of it is getting destroyed.

If you don't have it now, you will not have it then.

(Inquiring minds want to know more about the shelter. Sounds sweet.)

ETA: If you are hunting for food, you will starve to death. For the effort and cost of getting that shotgun/deer rifle, you could probably fill your shelter with enough chow to hold you over for a year.
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Re: No Guns here

Post by Close_enough » Tue Nov 22, 2016 5:48 pm

Black Beard wrote:This is important: there is not enough wild animals in the UK to feed the population for more than 3 days. If you rely on foraging, you will starve with everyone else. Farms are protected by farmers, who are very protective of their property and won't take any stick. If you are worried about a PAW, a few hundred pounds will buy you enough food to last a year. This is the smart, low risk and reliable option.

BB
I did a quick check of the USA equivalent. The cost of a good deer rifle, scope, and ancillary equipment will run 1-2 grand USD. That's about 3-6 months of prepackaged food at 2400 Kcal/day (Costco prices). Probably a bit more food if you're willing to stockpile staples (flour, oil, sugar, legumes, spices, backing powder, etc.), can your own goods, and eat your own cooking.

I'm not saying that hunting, fishing, and trapping don't have their place. But, you're going to get more bang for your by concentrating your efforts on stockpiling.

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Re: No Guns here

Post by KillerForHire » Sat Jan 07, 2017 7:01 am

Just replace the term "looting" with the term "prospecting" & your golden.

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Re: No Guns here

Post by majorhavoc » Sat Jan 07, 2017 7:55 am

KillerForHire wrote:Just replace the term "looting" with the term "prospecting" & your golden.
A common sentiment among newbies. However, we've been over this exact point in this very thread a few times already, including input from a forum moderator. Suggest you read the whole thread again (it's only two pages) and if you're still unclear, maybe peruse the first few posts in this one viewtopic.php?f=44&t=19895

In private, I'm sure we all make our own determinations about what we'd do under what circumstances - no blanket judgement from me on that point. But we simply do not discuss that sort of thing here at Zombie Squad. A basic tenet around here is we prepare ahead of time so that in a dire scenario, we don't have to "prospect" for other people's property.

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Re: No Guns here

Post by Towanda » Sat Jan 07, 2017 9:06 pm

I agree with everyone who said that you need to concentrate on gathering supplies more than figuring out where all your neighbors keep their firearms. You also need to bear in mind that possible invasion is not the only disaster you could be preparing for. Weather disasters, extended power outages, toxic spills, surprise volcanoes, any number of other natural or man-made disasters could strike long before an invasion by a foreign army.

ETA: What is the Scottish government's position on trebuchets and ballistas?
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Re: No Guns here

Post by LyraJean » Sun Jan 08, 2017 6:04 pm

If an actual gun is not allowed could what about a paintball gun and marbles or metal balls or a nail gun.
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Re: No Guns here

Post by Hiroshima_Morphine » Sun Jan 08, 2017 10:58 pm

Towanda wrote:What is the Scottish government's position on trebuchets and ballistas?
I'm not sure if this is sarcasm or a genuine question, either way~ it's awesome!
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Re: No Guns here

Post by Close_enough » Mon Jan 09, 2017 2:30 am

LyraJean wrote:If an actual gun is not allowed could what about a paintball gun and marbles or metal balls or a nail gun.
I can't imagine the authorities looking too kindly on weaponized recreational items or tools. If you're that desperate, most adult slingshots (i.e. pocket predator, rambone, etc), and almost all primitive weapons (sling, rabbit stick, atlatl, pellet bow, swiss arrow) will hit a lot harder then a modified paintball marker.

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Re: No Guns here

Post by Zimmy » Mon Jan 09, 2017 9:36 pm

Sounds like a great time to get to know the local whiskey drinking castle owning land barons!

Or at least the staff. I'm sure some of the staff are wilds loving agrarians that tend the place. Some honest friends and helpful labor could net you a clan's support, a varminter rifle license, and freely given assets to avoid a life of borscht and shchi and forced labor in the whiskey mines.
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Re: No Guns here

Post by zantra » Tue Jan 31, 2017 7:52 pm

can you get a gas-gun? how about a slingbow? grind both ends of some foot long hunks of 1/2" steel rod to pencil points, wear them in a double belt sheath, IWB (inside the waistband, under a shirt) Doubles the chance of a point "sticking" an attacker and they are heavy enough to hurt him badly even if the point doesnt pierce him. hang on to the last 1-2, tho.

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Re: No Guns here

Post by Zimmy » Tue Jan 31, 2017 9:52 pm

Close_enough wrote:
Black Beard wrote:This is important: there is not enough wild animals in the UK to feed the population for more than 3 days. If you rely on foraging, you will starve with everyone else. Farms are protected by farmers, who are very protective of their property and won't take any stick. If you are worried about a PAW, a few hundred pounds will buy you enough food to last a year. This is the smart, low risk and reliable option.

BB
I did a quick check of the USA equivalent. The cost of a good deer rifle, scope, and ancillary equipment will run 1-2 grand USD. That's about 3-6 months of prepackaged food at 2400 Kcal/day (Costco prices). Probably a bit more food if you're willing to stockpile staples (flour, oil, sugar, legumes, spices, backing powder, etc.), can your own goods, and eat your own cooking.

I'm not saying that hunting, fishing, and trapping don't have their place. But, you're going to get more bang for your by concentrating your efforts on stockpiling.
More like $250-$300 USD for a serviceable rifle and fair scope and a box of ammo.
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Re: No Guns here

Post by majorhavoc » Tue Jan 31, 2017 10:01 pm

Zimmy wrote:
Close_enough wrote:
Black Beard wrote:This is important: there is not enough wild animals in the UK to feed the population for more than 3 days. If you rely on foraging, you will starve with everyone else. Farms are protected by farmers, who are very protective of their property and won't take any stick. If you are worried about a PAW, a few hundred pounds will buy you enough food to last a year. This is the smart, low risk and reliable option.

BB
I did a quick check of the USA equivalent. The cost of a good deer rifle, scope, and ancillary equipment will run 1-2 grand USD. That's about 3-6 months of prepackaged food at 2400 Kcal/day (Costco prices). Probably a bit more food if you're willing to stockpile staples (flour, oil, sugar, legumes, spices, backing powder, etc.), can your own goods, and eat your own cooking.

I'm not saying that hunting, fishing, and trapping don't have their place. But, you're going to get more bang for your by concentrating your efforts on stockpiling.
More like $250-$300 USD for a serviceable rifle and fair scope and a box of ammo.
Maybe closer to $400 USD. But a Savage Axis II in .308 (on sale), a Leapers scope (don't laugh until you've tried one) and some surplus ammo qualifies anywhere as a bona fide bargain.

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