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PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2016 2:53 pm 
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Lets say the riot is tall people who are tired of hitting their heads on low hanging lights. So this riot has turned to the random mugging and assaulting of anyone less than 5' 6" and you happen to be 5'5".

Scenario 1: You are visiting a town and used public parking such as a parking deck. While walking on the street this riot starts and you get threatened and insulted for being short. A group of more than 8 tall people follow you as you turn into your parking deck. One runs around you to get in front of you and attempts to stop you from walking.

Scenario 2: You are driving on a major highway and tall people have made a chain across the road stopping all traffic. You are not expecting this and you stop roughly 2 or 3 cars deep into the halt and you quickly become boxed in by other vehicles. A tall person spots you using a phone book to look over the steering wheel and notifies others. A group of 10 or more start walking toward your car.

What would you do with your current EDC and with what you usually have in your car?

If you knew for a fact that this would happen to you within 30 days, what would you change about your day to day routine?

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2016 3:37 pm 
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Slugg wrote:
Lets say the riot is tall people who are tired of hitting their heads on low hanging lights. So this riot has turned to the random mugging and assaulting of anyone less than 5' 6" and you happen to be 5'5".

Scenario 1: You are visiting a town and used public parking such as a parking deck. While walking on the street this riot starts and you get threatened and insulted for being short. A group of more than 8 tall people follow you as you turn into your parking deck. One runs around you to get in front of you and attempts to stop you from walking.

Scenario 2: You are driving on a major highway and tall people have made a chain across the road stopping all traffic. You are not expecting this and you stop roughly 2 or 3 cars deep into the halt and you quickly become boxed in by other vehicles. A tall person spots you using a phone book to look over the steering wheel and notifies others. A group of 10 or more start walking toward your car.

What would you do with your current EDC and with what you usually have in your car?

If you knew for a fact that this would happen to you within 30 days, what would you change about your day to day routine?



Buy shoes with lifts in them...

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2016 3:40 pm 
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Slugg wrote:
Lets say the riot is tall people who are tired of hitting their heads on low hanging lights. So this riot has turned to the random mugging and assaulting of anyone less than 5' 6" and you happen to be 5'5".

Scenario 1: You are visiting a town and used public parking such as a parking deck. While walking on the street this riot starts and you get threatened and insulted for being short. A group of more than 8 tall people follow you as you turn into your parking deck. One runs around you to get in front of you and attempts to stop you from walking.

Scenario 2: You are driving on a major highway and tall people have made a chain across the road stopping all traffic. You are not expecting this and you stop roughly 2 or 3 cars deep into the halt and you quickly become boxed in by other vehicles. A tall person spots you using a phone book to look over the steering wheel and notifies others. A group of 10 or more start walking toward your car.

What would you do with your current EDC and with what you usually have in your car?

If you knew for a fact that this would happen to you within 30 days, what would you change about your day to day routine?


Scenario 1 - If I feel my life is threatened - my state allows me to act to mitigate that threat.

Scenario 2 - Your car is your best and first weapon. I challenge any import to stop my truck when I drop the hammer. Otherwise, refer to scenario 1.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2016 3:54 pm 
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Slugg wrote:
Lets say the riot is tall people who are tired of hitting their heads on low hanging lights. So this riot has turned to the random mugging and assaulting of anyone less than 5' 6" and you happen to be 5'5".

Scenario 1: You are visiting a town and used public parking such as a parking deck. While walking on the street this riot starts and you get threatened and insulted for being short. A group of more than 8 tall people follow you as you turn into your parking deck. One runs around you to get in front of you and attempts to stop you from walking.

Scenario 2: You are driving on a major highway and tall people have made a chain across the road stopping all traffic. You are not expecting this and you stop roughly 2 or 3 cars deep into the halt and you quickly become boxed in by other vehicles. A tall person spots you using a phone book to look over the steering wheel and notifies others. A group of 10 or more start walking toward your car.

What would you do with your current EDC and with what you usually have in your car?

If you knew for a fact that this would happen to you within 30 days, what would you change about your day to day routine?


Well I'm 6'8" so I'm good :awesome:

Scenario 1: I'll walk towards the closet safe haven (security guard, police station/car) and call 000 to notify police, I'm allowed to defend myself only with equal force (fist v fist, knife v knife etc)

Scenario 2: (minus the phone book) have a look up ahead, and do a u turn (major highway near here is a single lane POS). Lock the doors and keep the vehicle moving.

Now if I was just a random bystander during the riot: get indoors (shop, person's house etc) and lock the door

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2016 4:52 pm 
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I carry weapons to ensure my name is not automatically mentioned in the same breath as Reginald Denny.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2016 4:52 pm 
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taipan821 wrote:
Slugg wrote:
Lets say the riot is tall people who are tired of hitting their heads on low hanging lights. So this riot has turned to the random mugging and assaulting of anyone less than 5' 6" and you happen to be 5'5".

Scenario 1: You are visiting a town and used public parking such as a parking deck. While walking on the street this riot starts and you get threatened and insulted for being short. A group of more than 8 tall people follow you as you turn into your parking deck. One runs around you to get in front of you and attempts to stop you from walking.

Scenario 2: You are driving on a major highway and tall people have made a chain across the road stopping all traffic. You are not expecting this and you stop roughly 2 or 3 cars deep into the halt and you quickly become boxed in by other vehicles. A tall person spots you using a phone book to look over the steering wheel and notifies others. A group of 10 or more start walking toward your car.

What would you do with your current EDC and with what you usually have in your car?

If you knew for a fact that this would happen to you within 30 days, what would you change about your day to day routine?


Well I'm 6'8" so I'm good :awesome:

Scenario 1: I'll walk towards the closet safe haven (security guard, police station/car) and call 000 to notify police, I'm allowed to defend myself only with equal force (fist v fist, knife v knife etc)

Scenario 2: (minus the phone book) have a look up ahead, and do a u turn (major highway near here is a single lane POS). Lock the doors and keep the vehicle moving.

Now if I was just a random bystander during the riot: get indoors (shop, person's house etc) and lock the door


I'm looking for what would you do after you have already become boxed in. So whatever scenario happens where you are in your car unable to move it and bad guys are coming? Plowing through smaller cars is an option.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2016 5:26 pm 
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Slugg wrote:
taipan821 wrote:
Slugg wrote:
Lets say the riot is tall people who are tired of hitting their heads on low hanging lights. So this riot has turned to the random mugging and assaulting of anyone less than 5' 6" and you happen to be 5'5".

Scenario 1: You are visiting a town and used public parking such as a parking deck. While walking on the street this riot starts and you get threatened and insulted for being short. A group of more than 8 tall people follow you as you turn into your parking deck. One runs around you to get in front of you and attempts to stop you from walking.

Scenario 2: You are driving on a major highway and tall people have made a chain across the road stopping all traffic. You are not expecting this and you stop roughly 2 or 3 cars deep into the halt and you quickly become boxed in by other vehicles. A tall person spots you using a phone book to look over the steering wheel and notifies others. A group of 10 or more start walking toward your car.

What would you do with your current EDC and with what you usually have in your car?

If you knew for a fact that this would happen to you within 30 days, what would you change about your day to day routine?


Well I'm 6'8" so I'm good :awesome:

Scenario 1: I'll walk towards the closet safe haven (security guard, police station/car) and call 000 to notify police, I'm allowed to defend myself only with equal force (fist v fist, knife v knife etc)

Scenario 2: (minus the phone book) have a look up ahead, and do a u turn (major highway near here is a single lane POS). Lock the doors and keep the vehicle moving.

Now if I was just a random bystander during the riot: get indoors (shop, person's house etc) and lock the door


I'm looking for what would you do after you have already become boxed in. So whatever scenario happens where you are in your car unable to move it and bad guys are coming? Plowing through smaller cars is an option.
<----this.... if that doesn't work or if for some reason I can't with my full size four wheel drive pick up... I will get in a all smacky,clubby,stabby and shooty frame of mind.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2016 5:43 pm 
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In first situation, in my state I have a right to use lethal force if I reasonably have fear for my life. There is a court case in my state that decided multiple attackers was a reasonable reason for using lethal force. Accordingly I would respond lawfully with the least amount of force required to ensure I no longer need fear for my life.

In the second situation in my state I have a lawful right to repel a carjacker with lethal force. I would respond lawfully to anyone that made me fear for my life.


My body would be easy to find in either case ... just look for the spent brass.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2016 5:53 pm 
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raptor wrote:
flybynight wrote:
I carry weapons to ensure my name is not automatically mentioned in the same breath as Reginald Denny.


In my state I have a lawful right to repel a carjacker with lethal force. I would respond lawfully to anyone that made me fear for my life.


My body would be easy to find...just look for the spent brass.
This exactly. As I watched Denny get the BeJesus kicked out of him , I promised myself I would never allow myself to be dragged out of my car ALIVE. I might not survive the encounter but there will be blood spilled not of my own.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2016 10:13 pm 
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Well, I am 6'3 so I would just step out the car. But lets say I am some inferior shorty for a moment.
Scenario 1- I always carry a knife if just one is blocking my way I run forward with knife held high. I usually carry a Spyderco Resilience and it's a pretty big blade and an excellent slicer. I bet that guy moves and I keep going to my car or if they follow someplace else.
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Scenario 2-I am in a 3000 pound surface to surface missile. I reverse to make room and then plow ahead around the traffic Jam. Unless other vehicles are abandoned everywhere I dont see the problem. Even a small car when you floor it people will move or get rammed out the way. I am not stopping and not swerving.

Who carries a phone book around anyways? I use mine for kindling.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2016 12:29 am 
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Slugg wrote:
I'm looking for what would you do after you have already become boxed in. So whatever scenario happens where you are in your car unable to move it and bad guys are coming? Plowing through smaller cars is an option.


Ok then: I am allowed by state law to defend myself with EQUAL force. so if they have improvised weapons I can legally defend myself with an improvised weapon (fire extinguisher...its on hand)

but if I'm at work the options are much nicer...open the ambulance for business as usual :clap: (slightly sarcastic there)

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 28, 2016 6:13 pm 
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I'm allowed to defend myself only with equal force (fist v fist, knife v knife etc)

I'd think 10-20 pairs of fists = my gun

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 02, 2016 8:35 am 
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Slugg wrote:
Scenario 1: You are visiting a town and used public parking such as a parking deck. While walking on the street this riot starts and you get threatened and insulted for being short. A group of more than 8 tall people follow you as you turn into your parking deck. One runs around you to get in front of you and attempts to stop you from walking.?


Lead guy goes down screaming with a face full of pepper spray from my Kimber Pepper Blaster. I quickly step around him, turn to face the others, and draw one of my 9mm pistols and my strobe flashlight. Spotlight the rest of the mob, then back slowly away and up/down a set of stairs in the parking deck. Not bothering with the car if I can get away on foot. Multiple aggressors = deadly force legal to stop the threat.

Slugg wrote:
Scenario 2: You are driving on a major highway and tall people have made a chain across the road stopping all traffic. You are not expecting this and you stop roughly 2 or 3 cars deep into the halt and you quickly become boxed in by other vehicles. A tall person spots you using a phone book to look over the steering wheel and notifies others. A group of 10 or more start walking toward your car.


Keep the doors locked and windows up. Draw the pistols (yes, plural) and wait. Breaking into my car with me in it is the same as breaking into my house with me in it, in my state. If someone breaks glass to get at me, deal with it as a home invasion.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2016 11:17 am 
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Slugg wrote:
Lets say the riot is tall people who are tired of hitting their heads on low hanging lights. So this riot has turned to the random mugging and assaulting of anyone less than 5' 6" and you happen to be 5'5".

Scenario 1: You are visiting a town and used public parking such as a parking deck. While walking on the street this riot starts and you get threatened and insulted for being short. A group of more than 8 tall people follow you as you turn into your parking deck. One runs around you to get in front of you and attempts to stop you from walking.

Scenario 2: You are driving on a major highway and tall people have made a chain across the road stopping all traffic. You are not expecting this and you stop roughly 2 or 3 cars deep into the halt and you quickly become boxed in by other vehicles. A tall person spots you using a phone book to look over the steering wheel and notifies others. A group of 10 or more start walking toward your car.

What would you do with your current EDC and with what you usually have in your car?

If you knew for a fact that this would happen to you within 30 days, what would you change about your day to day routine?


Yeah I'd throw out the phone book!


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2016 8:00 pm 
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Barnabus wrote:
I'm allowed to defend myself only with equal force (fist v fist, knife v knife etc)

I'd think 10-20 pairs of fists = my gun

Ok I've noticed several post here about equal force. How does that work? If I am a 129 pound weakling and am attacked by a 6'7 300 pound mma fighter , I can only use my fists against a person who trains and fights professionally? What about if it's a female being attacked? Is she expected to go toe to toe with her attacker also?
Or as Barnabus posted, 5,10or 20 people attacking you hand to hand?

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2016 11:09 pm 
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This happened in Australia.

Thugs had no idea their victim would be armed and defend himself.
Judge gave him six years prison for carrying a knife and using it in self defence.

http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/i-w ... 26877.html

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/chase-on-trai ... -thvq.html

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2016 2:42 pm 
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There is nothing I can say that wont cross the no politics rule, so I'ma just post a frowny face and some quotes. . :vmad:

Quote:
The offender had no criminal history, was genuinely remorseful and the violence used appeared to be "entirely uncharacteristic", the judge said.

The youth told police he carried the knife "for protection" because he got "rolled all the time".

A month before the stabbing, he had been assaulted and robbed on a train.

Justice Hidden said Andrew had clearly initiated the violence, and the offender and his group had been scared and sought to avoid conflict.

When Andrew rushed towards him aggressively, the youth was undoubtedly "very much in fear, particularly in the light of his relatively recent experience of aggression on a train".

He pleaded guilty to Andrew's manslaughter on the basis of having used "excessive self-defence".


Let me quote that for you again.

Quote:
He pleaded guilty to Andrew's manslaughter on the basis of having used "excessive self-defence"


:vmad:

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2016 4:15 pm 
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SCBrian wrote:
There is nothing I can say that wont cross the no politics rule, so I'ma just post a frowny face and some quotes. . :vmad:

Quote:
The offender had no criminal history, was genuinely remorseful and the violence used appeared to be "entirely uncharacteristic", the judge said.

The youth told police he carried the knife "for protection" because he got "rolled all the time".

A month before the stabbing, he had been assaulted and robbed on a train.

Justice Hidden said Andrew had clearly initiated the violence, and the offender and his group had been scared and sought to avoid conflict.

When Andrew rushed towards him aggressively, the youth was undoubtedly "very much in fear, particularly in the light of his relatively recent experience of aggression on a train".

He pleaded guilty to Andrew's manslaughter on the basis of having used "excessive self-defence".


Let me quote that for you again.

Quote:
He pleaded guilty to Andrew's manslaughter on the basis of having used "excessive self-defence"


:vmad:


I 'm not intending my question to initiate a discussion on the pro/con of the laws. Just an explanation.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2016 4:56 pm 
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Yeah I know politics is forbidden so I'll just say that if there was anything from Australia that another country was trying to adopt, trust me it's not a good idea.

There are always unintended consequences.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2016 5:30 pm 
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flybynight wrote:
I 'm not intending my question to initiate a discussion on the pro/con of the laws. Just an explanation.

I will attempt to explain this without delving into the politics.

I am not an attorney nor an expert on Australian criminal law. I do have a very limited knowledge of Commonwealth Law albeit not Australia Law. So if I get it wrong ... feel free to correct me.

There is a doctrine of proportionate force under Commonwealth Law.
It says in effect, if you bring a knife to a fistfight, even if you did not start the fist fight and you even retreated you have used excessive force to end that fight. Under such a doctrine, a knife would be deemed excessive force in a fist fight.

In this case, the two people were similar ages and appeared to be roughly "equal" thus since the the aggressor was only using his fists, the use of a superior weapon (a knife) for self defense was excessive force and hence illegal.

The fact that the person using the knife retreated and only deployed the knife in self defense is why he was not guilty of murder but rather only manslaughter. He in effect got the benefit of the doubt under the law since he was acting ins self defense and was not the aggressor, which is why he only got 3 years in jail.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-defence_(Australia)



I would note that in LA an incident with an exact same set of facts would likely go to a grand jury since there was disproportionate force used. Clear cut self defense cases are frequently not sent to a grand jury, only cases where there is doubt.

However, since the the person retreated and was chased it is not likely there would be an indictment since there is no duty to retreat. If there was an indictment then case law also notes that if a person retreats and the attacker continues the attack there is reasonable expectation of a person's life being at risk.

Acting in self defense has ramifications in many ways and actions involving lethal force should not be taken lightly. If you have the opportunity to safely avoid the use of lethal force, that is the route you should take. ... Quote from Capt. Obvious

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