Choose an APC during war.

Discuss those "what if" or "what would you do" scenarios you've been wondering about.

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Okay, we did it with tanks now choose your APC

US M113- light so good MPG but lightly armored and topheavy
6
32%
US Stryker- well protected but heavy so may run out of fuel
4
21%
UK Warrior- Fast and well armored but only carries 7
2
11%
German Boxer- well protected but light on offense and complex
0
No votes
Russian BTR 80- amphibious and well armored including NBC only holds seven and soldiers have to exit from the side
7
37%
Israeli Namer- based on a Merkava frame it uses tank treads and is the most heavily armored, but fuel is an issue.
0
No votes
Chinese WZ551- can carry 11 soldiers but offensive weaponry isn't great and its uses old technology.
0
No votes
 
Total votes: 19

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Choose an APC during war.

Post by The Twizzler » Wed Sep 07, 2016 10:03 pm

So I did an earlier poll on your choice for tanks in wartime. Now the question is what APC would you choose in war. You may be deployed to an environment not of your choice; arctic, jungle, dessert, plains, forest, mountains. You may be separated from your unit and have to consider speed, armament, mobility, armor, and lack of resupply. The number of soldiers transported is also an issue as if it is to small you will need to make more trips and therefore be in danger more often. I have picked from what I consider the most likely of choices. Choose wisely my son.
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Re: Choose an APC during war.

Post by quazi » Wed Sep 07, 2016 10:17 pm

Mars Pattern Rhino. I'd be tempted to go with a Chimera, but the Rhino was designed to be easy for one person to operate. Plus you just can't beat that STC design.

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Re: Choose an APC during war.

Post by taipan821 » Thu Sep 08, 2016 2:27 am

I'll take a Phase 3 ASLAV, similar to the stryker except it is smaller, has a longer range (410 miles), carries a 25mm bushmaster (720 rounds) and 7.62mm machine gun (1000 rounds) as standard in a 2 man turret, enhanced optics and IED protection. capacity for 6 troops, amphibious, capacity to run in 4x4 or 8x8 with run flat tyres, can travel at 75mph...oh and has aircon for tropical conditions.

And it has good combat history with tours in East Timor, Iraq and Afghanistan
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Re: Choose an APC during war.

Post by Stercutus » Thu Sep 08, 2016 2:38 am

MI-24 Hind A-10
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But we in it shall be rememberèd—
We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
Shall be my brother

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Re: Choose an APC during war.

Post by Zimmy » Thu Sep 08, 2016 12:16 pm

Well crap, getting my Bradley certification was even worthless in the Zpoc.


I don't know anything about the others except the 113. That I can operate ok.
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Re: Choose an APC during war.

Post by Holger Danske » Thu Sep 08, 2016 4:23 pm

If you like the M113, you may like the M577 Command Post Carrier even more. It's a M113 with a raised roof and and attached shelter extension (big ass canvas tent). I got to care for and sometimes live in one for awhile, compliments of Uncle Sam.

Image

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Re: Choose an APC during war.

Post by The Twizzler » Thu Sep 08, 2016 6:37 pm

It could be worse you could have been certified in this
German Wiesel-20 mm auto cannon, or Tow Missile and 7.62 MG. Holds 3 people, uses the VW 1.9l diesel (yes the same one in the new bug), and weighs in at 3 tons. Still in use today.
Image
Image

I thought the Bradley was getting fazed out and the stryker was to take both roles?

Bradley-25 MM gun with 200 rounds, coaxial 7.62 mg, 2 Tow missles, and sits at 32 tons
Image

Stryker-50 Caliber M2 machine gun, 7.62 mg, and they are now adding a 30mm Cannon. It weighs in at 20 tons
Image
Zimmy wrote:Well crap, getting my Bradley certification was even worthless in the Zpoc.


I don't know anything about the others except the 113. That I can operate ok.
"Oh Bother!" said Pooh, as he drew his dagger...

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Re: Choose an APC during war.

Post by Zimmy » Thu Sep 08, 2016 7:58 pm

The Twizzler wrote:It could be worse you could have been certified in this
German Wiesel-20 mm auto cannon, or Tow Missile and 7.62 MG. Holds 3 people, uses the VW 1.9l diesel (yes the same one in the new bug), and weighs in at 3 tons. Still in use today.
Image
Image

I thought the Bradley was getting fazed out and the stryker was to take both roles?

Bradley-25 MM gun with 200 rounds, coaxial 7.62 mg, 2 Tow missles, and sits at 32 tons
Image

Stryker-50 Caliber M2 machine gun, 7.62 mg, and they are now adding a 30mm Cannon. It weighs in at 20 tons
Image
Zimmy wrote:Well crap, getting my Bradley certification was even worthless in the Zpoc.


I don't know anything about the others except the 113. That I can operate ok.

In '89 I did the limping duffle bag drag to leg land from Italy to Germany. There I instantly had to get adapted to gamma goats and M113s. Three weeks after I got certs, we got Bradleys and retrained all over again just in time for my ETS in '90
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Re: Choose an APC during war.

Post by doitnstyle1 » Thu Sep 08, 2016 11:26 pm

Zimmy wrote:
The Twizzler wrote:It could be worse you could have been certified in this
German Wiesel-20 mm auto cannon, or Tow Missile and 7.62 MG. Holds 3 people, uses the VW 1.9l diesel (yes the same one in the new bug), and weighs in at 3 tons. Still in use today.
Image
Image

I thought the Bradley was getting fazed out and the stryker was to take both roles?

Bradley-25 MM gun with 200 rounds, coaxial 7.62 mg, 2 Tow missles, and sits at 32 tons
Image

Stryker-50 Caliber M2 machine gun, 7.62 mg, and they are now adding a 30mm Cannon. It weighs in at 20 tons
Image
Zimmy wrote:Well crap, getting my Bradley certification was even worthless in the Zpoc.


I don't know anything about the others except the 113. That I can operate ok.

In '89 I did the limping duffle bag drag to leg land from Italy to Germany. There I instantly had to get adapted to gamma goats and M113s. Three weeks after I got certs, we got Bradleys and retrained all over again just in time for my ETS in '90
I am licensed for a gammagoat. Ha! Ha! Ha!
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Re: Choose an APC during war.

Post by doitnstyle1 » Thu Sep 08, 2016 11:29 pm

Image

I think I would rather have one of these. Small fast enough. Maneuverable in tight spots like you would find in urban terrain. Lower profile than most others and hard armor not aluminum like the M113 or M577. Tracked vehicles suck too, trying to repair them and very high maintenance to keep them running optimally. The resources for tracked vehicles may not be readily available. You will need a lot of grease, and hope you don't throw a track. I can change out a wheel by myself. You need a crew to repair a track and it usually takes all day, maybe even a recovery vehicle. I remember the tracks breaking down just sitting in the motorpool for a week without driving them.
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Re: Choose an APC during war.

Post by Dabster » Fri Sep 09, 2016 12:29 pm

I picked a Stryker because they look cool and, well, 'Merica.

I had no idea the WZ551 could hold eleven. I have to ask, is there a rotary troop dispenser inside it or do they stack themselves like cord wood?
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Re: Choose an APC during war.

Post by Zimmy » Fri Sep 09, 2016 3:13 pm

doitnstyle1 wrote:Image

I think I would rather have one of these. Small fast enough. Maneuverable in tight spots like you would find in urban terrain. Lower profile than most others and hard armor not aluminum like the M113 or M577. Tracked vehicles suck too, trying to repair them and very high maintenance to keep them running optimally. The resources for tracked vehicles may not be readily available. You will need a lot of grease, and hope you don't throw a track. I can change out a wheel by myself. You need a crew to repair a track and it usually takes all day, maybe even a recovery vehicle. I remember the tracks breaking down just sitting in the motorpool for a week without driving them.
I like it. Send me one and I'll give a full review!
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Re: Choose an APC during war.

Post by taipan821 » Fri Sep 09, 2016 3:26 pm

Dabster wrote:I picked a Stryker because they look cool and, well, 'Merica.
Image

Not American but still cool, Australian light Armour vehicle (ASLAV) during a patrol in Iraq circa 2005.
pity they are getting replaced soon
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Re: Choose an APC during war.

Post by Dabster » Fri Sep 09, 2016 4:02 pm

doitnstyle1 wrote:Image

I think I would rather have one of these. Small fast enough. Maneuverable in tight spots like you would find in urban terrain. Lower profile than most others and hard armor not aluminum like the M113 or M577. Tracked vehicles suck too, trying to repair them and very high maintenance to keep them running optimally. The resources for tracked vehicles may not be readily available. You will need a lot of grease, and hope you don't throw a track. I can change out a wheel by myself. You need a crew to repair a track and it usually takes all day, maybe even a recovery vehicle. I remember the tracks breaking down just sitting in the motorpool for a week without driving them.
For a while, these were fairly easily obtained. A friend had one. I got to drive it a bit. Driving wasn't hard but steering was weird. It was also rather/overly cozy: The driver sits between the knees of the commander. It also didn't seem to have any ventilation.
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Re: Choose an APC during war.

Post by The Twizzler » Fri Sep 09, 2016 6:55 pm

The Stryker is made in Canada but used by the US. So you should say Anada! I just started a trend :rofl: .
The WZ551 has a 25mm cannon, 12.7 MG, 7.62 Mg. It has a crew of three and can carry 9 with the 25 cannon or 11 soldiers without it. It weighs 12.5 tons. It is exported and strangely they export it with a 30 mm cannon but China likes the 25mm.
Image
I hear the white wall tires are all the rage on APC's this year.

It also comes in a four wheel version for those that like to change tires.
Image



Dabster wrote:I picked a Stryker because they look cool and, well, 'Merica.

I had no idea the WZ551 could hold eleven. I have to ask, is there a rotary troop dispenser inside it or do they stack themselves like cord wood?
"Oh Bother!" said Pooh, as he drew his dagger...

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Re: Choose an APC during war.

Post by The Twizzler » Fri Sep 09, 2016 7:03 pm

Since I gave pictures for the others...
My choice
UK Warrior- 30mm cannon (being upgraded with a 40mm), 7.62 coaxial mg, weighs in at 25 tons. Fun fact-unlike some others it does not have firing ports on the side. So more armor can be put on the side. (probably a good call)
Image
Image






The upgraded model was sadly retired :(
Image
Last edited by The Twizzler on Fri Sep 09, 2016 7:34 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Choose an APC during war.

Post by The Twizzler » Fri Sep 09, 2016 7:11 pm

German Boxer- Armament is your choice of 40mm grenade launcher, or 50 MG, or 7.62 Mg. You can only choose one though :shock: . It has a multilevel floor that is very mine resistant. The vehicle is modular so all body sections cann be switched or replaced as needed. It also looks like a door stop.
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Re: Choose an APC during war.

Post by The Twizzler » Fri Sep 09, 2016 7:20 pm

Russian BTR 80- 14.5mm mg or 30mm autocannon plus a 7.62 mg. It weighs in at 13 tons and carries 7 passengers.Great NBC protection but it's got firing ports on the side :roll:. Fun fact the main gun is not stabilized.
Image
Next to a Bradley
Image
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Re: Choose an APC during war.

Post by The Twizzler » Fri Sep 09, 2016 7:29 pm

Israeli Namer-Let's be real it's a tank without the big gun. Armament includes 50 cal MG or Mark 19 grenade launcher as well as a 7.62 mg. It weighs in at 60 tons :ooh: . Fun facts- because they took out the turret the Namer has more armor than the Merkava tanks it was made from. It's got a V-12 diesel engine.
Image
On the inside look at the space :crazy:
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Re: Choose an APC during war.

Post by Apathy » Sat Sep 10, 2016 1:09 am

the m113 err Gavin is the best ifv/apc/tank/airplane ever. And anyone who disagrees with me is a narcissist!

Why no CV90/40?
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Re: Choose an APC during war.

Post by doitnstyle1 » Sat Sep 10, 2016 11:37 pm

The Twizzler wrote:Russian BTR 80- 14.5mm mg or 30mm autocannon plus a 7.62 mg. It weighs in at 13 tons and carries 7 passengers.Great NBC protection but it's got firing ports on the side :roll:. Fun fact the main gun is not stabilized.
Image
Next to a Bradley
Image
Funner fact: Those things aren't built for the 'Merican body frame. Even in my younger years when I weighed much less, get in and out of these was difficult at best. It took me several minutes to get into a T-72. The BTR-80 is not much better.
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Re: Choose an APC during war.

Post by LowKey » Sun Sep 11, 2016 8:20 am

The Twizzler wrote:So I did an earlier poll on your choice for tanks in wartime. Now the question is what APC would you choose in war. You may be deployed to an environment not of your choice; arctic, jungle, dessert, plains, forest, mountains. You may be separated from your unit and have to consider speed, armament, mobility, armor, and lack of resupply. The number of soldiers transported is also an issue as if it is to small you will need to make more trips and therefore be in danger more often. I have picked from what I consider the most likely of choices. Choose wisely my son.
Good boots, lots of spare wool socks, and as light a pack as can be managed (ie shiver at night).

A lone APC is just a tin can with meat inside waiting to be stumbled upon by someone with the right can opener.


If you have four of them running together and regular resupply they'd become more viable, especially if they have artillery on call.

BTW, out of the environments you mentioned (arctic, jungle, dessert, plains, forest, mountains) three of them aren't particularly good places for APCs.
Jungles of the wet sort tend to swallow the APCs on a regular basis.
Forests limit their mobility, line of sight, and present a whole lot more concealment for ambushes against them.
Mountains....when you come up with an APC that can do rock climbing or rappel let me know.

Arctic will cause all sorts of mechanical issues due to the cold in the winter, and in the summer they'll likely get mired as things thaw.


Desert and plains? Hunky-dory until you run out of fuel, parts, or ammo.
Or catch a sager from some conscript in a spider hole 400 meters away.
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Re: Choose an APC during war.

Post by The Twizzler » Sun Sep 11, 2016 8:24 pm

Yea I debated on whether to include the Cv90/40 or the Namer. I choose the Namer as it has seen combat and outside of scandanavia the Cv90/40 isn't used by other countries to my knowledge while the Namer has been bought by some South American countries. Fun fact about the CV90/40 the 40mm Bofurs gun is installed upside down on the vehicle.
CV90/40-can carry 8 soldiers, 40mm bofurs cannon is very simmilar to WW2 German 43 Flak gun, also has a 7.62 mg, and 6 grenade lauchers that can fire smoke grrnades or anti personell grenades, weighs in at 35 tons.
Image

Apathy wrote:the m113 err Gavin is the best ifv/apc/tank/airplane ever. And anyone who disagrees with me is a narcissist!

Why no CV90/40?
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Re: Choose an APC during war.

Post by The Twizzler » Sun Sep 11, 2016 8:44 pm

LowKey wrote:
The Twizzler wrote:So I did an earlier poll on your choice for tanks in wartime. Now the question is what APC would you choose in war. You may be deployed to an environment not of your choice; arctic, jungle, dessert, plains, forest, mountains. You may be separated from your unit and have to consider speed, armament, mobility, armor, and lack of resupply. The number of soldiers transported is also an issue as if it is to small you will need to make more trips and therefore be in danger more often. I have picked from what I consider the most likely of choices. Choose wisely my son.
Good boots, lots of spare wool socks, and as light a pack as can be managed (ie shiver at night).

A lone APC is just a tin can with meat inside waiting to be stumbled upon by someone with the right can opener.


If you have four of them running together and regular resupply they'd become more viable, especially if they have artillery on call.

BTW, out of the environments you mentioned (arctic, jungle, dessert, plains, forest, mountains) three of them aren't particularly good places for APCs.
Jungles of the wet sort tend to swallow the APCs on a regular basis.
Forests limit their mobility, line of sight, and present a whole lot more concealment for ambushes against them.
Mountains....when you come up with an APC that can do rock climbing or rappel let me know.

Arctic will cause all sorts of mechanical issues due to the cold in the winter, and in the summer they'll likely get mired as things thaw.


Desert and plains? Hunky-dory until you run out of fuel, parts, or ammo.
Or catch a sager from some conscript in a spider hole 400 meters away.
1959 Ferret Scout- you will see the grappling hook fired by the turret.
Image
Image
"Oh Bother!" said Pooh, as he drew his dagger...

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