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80'sSKS vs 80's Marlin 3030
1. SKS without a scope 58%  58%  [ 18 ]
2. Marlin with Redfield scope 16%  16%  [ 5 ]
3. Marlin without scope 13%  13%  [ 4 ]
4. Find a way to attach a scope to the SKS 13%  13%  [ 4 ]
Total votes : 31
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 Post subject: Re: SKS vs Marlin 330cs
PostPosted: Sun Aug 21, 2016 12:00 pm 
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gunsandrockets wrote:

But an SKS will never match the flexibility....of the 336.


What exactly do you mean by this?

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 Post subject: Re: SKS vs Marlin 330cs
PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2016 8:35 am 
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RonnyRonin wrote:
gunsandrockets wrote:

But an SKS will never match the flexibility....of the 336.


What exactly do you mean by this?


As a manually operated 30-30 with a solid receiver, the 336 has a greater variety of sight options and ammunition options than the SKS. It is even possible to use black powder reloads in the 336.

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 Post subject: Re: SKS vs Marlin 330cs
PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2016 4:50 pm 
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Gotcha.
can you load a .30-.30 much hotter then good 7.62x39?
doesn't totally invalidate that, but you can turn the gas tube off on an SKS and make it essentially manually operated, don't know the pressure limits though.

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 Post subject: Re: SKS vs Marlin 330cs
PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2016 9:20 pm 
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You can't really turn off the gas tube on a Norinco, or anything other than a Yugo.

For a SHTF rifle I'd go with the SKS as long as you are reasonably accurate with it. It's dirt simple to use, maintain and get back into action if it malf's. It's the rifle you would choose if you needed to train and equip an army of conscripted peasants in a weeks time.

As far as a scope there are a few mounts out there that actually work and hold zero. Don't mess with anything other than a drill and tap mount. This one seems to be worth checking out http://www.murraysguns.com/sks_scopemnt.htmbased at least in part on this threadhttp://www.sksboards.com/smf/index.php?topic=120838.0

I love the Marlin 336. It's what I killed my first deer with and I'm willing to bet it kills more deer every year than the next 5 most popular combined. All of the other guys I hunt with use Marlin 30-30's. If I was going hunting I would choose the Marlin, with or without a scope, every single time. If I thought there might be a possibility of it turning into a two way firing range, I would take the SKS.

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 Post subject: Re: SKS vs Marlin 330cs
PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2016 9:16 am 
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RonnyRonin wrote:
Gotcha.
can you load a .30-.30 much hotter then good 7.62x39?
doesn't totally invalidate that, but you can turn the gas tube off on an SKS and make it essentially manually operated, don't know the pressure limits though.


Aside from the issues of the gas operation, a principle problem with the SKS is a lack of reloading options because it uses .311 diameter bullets. The 7.62x39mm cartridge also has less volume, and shorter length to work with than 30-30. Virtually all of the cheap steel-cased imported ammunition for the 7.62x39mm are loaded with bullets unsuitable for hunting, and mediocre even for anti-personel purposes. The military FMJ load is notorious for pinhole wounds unless bone is struck during passage through the body, and the supposed "soft point" bullets use tough steel bullet jackets which prevent the bullet from properly expanding like a hunting bullet is supposed to. Though the cheap ammo is certainly a bonus for training purposes.

The primary disadvantage of 30-30 is the need for bullets which will not cause detonations when loaded in the tube magazine. But yes you could load a 30-30 hotter than the 7.62x39mm.

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 Post subject: Re: SKS vs Marlin 330cs
PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2016 10:23 am 
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gunsandrockets wrote:
[quote="RonnyRonin"
Aside from the issues of the gas operation, a principle problem with the SKS is a lack of reloading options because it uses .311 diameter bullets. The 7.62x39mm cartridge also has less volume, and shorter length to work with than 30-30. Virtually all of the cheap steel-cased imported ammunition for the 7.62x39mm are loaded with bullets unsuitable for hunting, and mediocre even for anti-personel purposes. The military FMJ load is notorious for pinhole wounds unless bone is struck during passage through the body, and the supposed "soft point" bullets use tough steel bullet jackets which prevent the bullet from properly expanding like a hunting bullet is supposed to. Though the cheap ammo is certainly a bonus for training purposes.

The primary disadvantage of 30-30 is the need for bullets which will not cause detonations when loaded in the tube magazine. But yes you could load a 30-30 hotter than the 7.62x39mm.


I have not tested the SKS, but I can assure you AK barrels imported in the last 16 years are all .308. So is all the 7.62x39 which I have measured. Confused the heck out of me. Older barrels might be .311. Just swage your own personal barrel before proceeding.

The bi-metal rounds are less suitable for hunting. There are plenty of cheap rounds VERY suitable for anti-personnel use. Golden Tiger and anything using the M67 bullet are suitable. 8M3 is legendary for terminal performance, but dang hard to acquire.

123 gr soft points do DAMAGE on deer. I can personally assure you of this.

"Hollow points" from com-block countries are generally worthless. The exception being 8M3.

Then there are many home defense loadings by American companies in 7.62x39. Winchester, Hornady, and Double Tap come right to mind. I'm sure there are others. I just have not looked at them as closely. Cor-Bon makes some.

So there are lots of options for reloading 7.62x39, up to 200+ grains. There are lots of cheap training options and lots of serious defensive options. And you can load any 308 bullet in there as well.

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 Post subject: Re: SKS vs Marlin 330cs
PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2016 2:44 pm 
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http://www.saami.org/pubresources/cc_dr ... _62x39.pdf

SAAMI for 7.62x39mm is .311 inch diameter bullet.

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 Post subject: Re: SKS vs Marlin 330cs
PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2016 3:09 pm 
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?annotatio ... OHrY9KiR2A

At one point I was contemplating buying a Ruger Mini-14 tactical model in 7.62x39mm caliber. The cheap Tula 154 grain soft point ammo looked very promising because it fired very accurately from the Ruger. But the steel jacket is its downfall.

True enough, quality American made ammunition using quality expanding bullets is available in the 7.62x39mm cartridge. But price is not low and bullet selection is limited to almost a single type and weight, the 123 grain soft-point.

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 Post subject: Re: SKS vs Marlin 330cs
PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2016 3:31 pm 
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gunsandrockets wrote:
http://www.saami.org/pubresources/cc_drawings/rifle/7_62x39.pdf

SAAMI for 7.62x39mm is .311 inch diameter bullet.


Yeah, I know what it is supposed to be. In an international context, I would assume it is correct. In the US, based on the measurements I have done, I would not assume any 7.62x39 in the US is .311. I would measure the individual weapon and the ammo you intend to use in it.

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 Post subject: Re: SKS vs Marlin 330cs
PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2016 3:35 pm 
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woodsghost wrote:
gunsandrockets wrote:
http://www.saami.org/pubresources/cc_drawings/rifle/7_62x39.pdf

SAAMI for 7.62x39mm is .311 inch diameter bullet.


Yeah, I know what it is supposed to be. In an international context, I would assume it is correct. In the US, based on the measurements I have done, I would not assume any 7.62x39 in the US is .311. I would measure the individual weapon and the ammo you intend to use in it.


I am curious to know which American brands of 7.62x39mm ammunition you measured which had .308 diameter bullets as opposed to .311 diameter.

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 Post subject: Re: SKS vs Marlin 330cs
PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2016 3:59 pm 
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woodsghost wrote:
gunsandrockets wrote:
http://www.saami.org/pubresources/cc_drawings/rifle/7_62x39.pdf

SAAMI for 7.62x39mm is .311 inch diameter bullet.


Yeah, I know what it is supposed to be. In an international context, I would assume it is correct. In the US, based on the measurements I have done, I would not assume any 7.62x39 in the US is .311. I would measure the individual weapon and the ammo you intend to use in it.


I cannot believe that any SKS factory barrel is .308 at the groove, so if the current ammo is, you're not going to get good accuracy.

You did measure the groove, and not the lands, correct? You're not going to get a good measurement without slugging the bore.

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 Post subject: Re: SKS vs Marlin 330cs
PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2016 6:57 pm 
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gunsandrockets wrote:
[

I am curious to know which American brands of 7.62x39mm ammunition you measured which had .308 diameter bullets as opposed to .311 diameter.


Tulammo, Wolf, 1994 Yugo surplus, Hornady (7.62x54), Red Army Standard Elite.

Doctorr Fabulous wrote:

I cannot believe that any SKS factory barrel is .308 at the groove, so if the current ammo is, you're not going to get good accuracy.

You did measure the groove, and not the lands, correct? You're not going to get a good measurement without slugging the bore.


I have not measured an SKS. I am advising people to swage their own bores to know for sure. I have only checked AK barrels, which turned out to be .308 (sample of 2, both imported after 2003), and a Mosin barrel (.314). I would not be surprised to find guns made for a US commercial market were actually made with a .308 spec barrel. That is my current theory based on a very limited amount of data.

My best guess is US made barrels are .308, and ammo makers know to gear their ammo to the .308 spec. I"d love to get my hands on some true communist barrels for both the AK and the SKS. I"m also entertaining theories on possible differences between Yugo and other comblock bore diameters, but until I get my hands on more barrels, I only have theories.

Also, folks are free to double check me and see if I messed up, and if their own barrels and ammo are .311 spec. If I messed up in measuring, I"d be happy to admit it. I've been wrong enough other times. I"m always learning.

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 Post subject: Re: SKS vs Marlin 330cs
PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2016 7:57 pm 
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Quote:

I cannot believe that any SKS factory barrel is .308 at the groove, so if the current ammo is, you're not going to get good accuracy.


I have never heard of such a thing either. I have heard of plenty of people using .308 bullets and getting fair to passing results. Velocity drops 5-10% for obvious reasons but accuracy tends to be similar to cheap factory ammo. Kind of makes sense in a way.

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 Post subject: Re: SKS vs Marlin 330cs
PostPosted: Wed Aug 24, 2016 7:55 am 
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Two interesting vids I found about foreign made 7.62x39mm: one military surplus ammunition, the other ammunition intended for sale to North America, both with bullets measured at .310-.311 diameter.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T-_b0wxeFg8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F8eAB1JMWJk

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