One fine evening.....

Discuss those "what if" or "what would you do" scenarios you've been wondering about.

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Random
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One fine evening.....

Post by Random » Mon Feb 02, 2015 5:39 am

Let's assume it's a fine summer evening ,you are walking back home with your SO ,and you pass through a rather less populated area.You are wearing a nice leather jacket.Underneath ,a tshirt and a shoulder holster.You're a responsible citizen with a CCW permit.

25 - 30 feet in front of you ,a local thug blocks your path ,holds his ground and you notice he has 2 other buddies behind ,both with baseball bats.The main thug isn't brandishing any weapon,yet all three start advancing slowly towards you.

He says: That's a nice jacket ,I want it !" and keeps on approaching....

What would you do?

Give him the jacket?-That would expose your holster ,and you don't know whether the others are packing as well.You are in the open and your SO is unarmed.It could get ugly.

Draw? - it's a possibility of 3 against one firefight if the others have guns as well.

How do you negotiate this situation?
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Stercutus
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Re: One fine evening.....

Post by Stercutus » Mon Feb 02, 2015 7:14 am

Begs the immediate question of; "why would I be wearing a leather jacket in Alabama in the summer time?", but ok. Follow up question would be; "why is my SO unarmed?". I am trying to think of a reason and having trouble... anyway...

- I have not worn a shoulder holster since the 90s, don't even think I have one anymore. So the gun is strong side hip. I can only bend reality but so far.
- Tell him it "is" a nice jacket and he needs to go get his own, and ask them "what the hell they think they are doing with the bats?"
- Order them to set the bats down
- Most of the local thugs know me well by now so if they continue to approach, act in a threatening manner or generally don't do what I say then everyone is about to have a really, really bad day.
- Open a line to 911 with my phone. Should be easy since it is a single swipe and a push with the phone.
- Make sure the 911 operator knows where we are and who is there with us
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Mikeyboy
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Re: One fine evening.....

Post by Mikeyboy » Mon Feb 02, 2015 10:29 am

Why are you wearing a Leather Jacket in the summertime?

Anywho...best solution

"Nice Jacket, I want it."

Acting like you are not at all afraid and they are just messing wit you "Nahh you don't want this old...wait I know you? Your mom shops in the dollar store I work at, what's her name again????"

Most criminals have mothers, most older women shop in dollar stores. They may be dumb enough to give you their name. Even if they don't you just established that you may know them, making you a good witness to the police, or at the very least tell their mother what they did to you. Some criminals still love they mommas. Also you work at a dollar store, so you have no money and your jacket is probably a fake POS.

From there laugh a lot, and say "Tell your mom I said hi" and keep on walking.

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Re: One fine evening.....

Post by Phoenix David » Mon Feb 02, 2015 7:26 pm

A.R.S. §13-421. Justification; defensive display of a firearm

Start backing up for distance, hand goes in jacket, gun comes out. 3 on 2 and they have baseball bats. SO calling 911, their move.
Nobody ever wishes they brought a smaller gun to a gun fight

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Re: One fine evening.....

Post by bufordtjustice » Mon Feb 02, 2015 7:53 pm

Drop the jacket at your feet, draw your gun and say "come get it, mother f&$@ers."

Then, when they walk away, go home and throw that shoulder holster in the trash because they are dumb. Also, be thankful they didn't try to rush you. 3 to 1 are tough odds to beat.

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Re: One fine evening.....

Post by paul_c » Fri Feb 06, 2015 9:41 am

bufordtjustice wrote:Drop the jacket at your feet, draw your gun and say "come get it, mother f&$@ers."

Then, when they walk away, go home and throw that shoulder holster in the trash because they are dumb. Also, be thankful they didn't try to rush you. 3 to 1 are tough odds to beat.
I like lol

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Re: One fine evening.....

Post by DFWMTX » Fri Feb 06, 2015 12:52 pm

"Dude, you don't want this jacket. Do you know how many times I've had this thing tied around my waist and I've farted on it?
It can always get worse.

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Re: One fine evening.....

Post by Mad Dog Jones » Sat Sep 26, 2015 2:39 pm

Ok, you live in that style of leather jacket, and just bought a new one, also, it snowed in july, its become a crappy hood over th years, and you cant afford to move, besides your now signifigant others mom lives on this block, in fact your just walking home after your SO did th good daughter thing by going there to change moms colostamy bag because home heealth care just isnt as perfect in reallity as it is on paper, and of course this is how you know that you really love this girl. After all, your still at her side. Now Beavis + Butthead, + thier new leader, th reasons you bought th handgun, and got th ccw to begin with, want your snuggy jackey Linus, and maybe a go at your beautiful, yet unarmed girlfriend, because you cant afford a gun for her untill th price of colostamy bags drops. Oooh, to bad you havnt got th one your SO just threw away, Beavis, Butthead, +company could desperately stand a good buzz kill about right now. You know what has to b done, you know what your going to do, everybody on this forum knows, its basically why we all try to prepare, just as you did in your senario, but, I believe strict inturpretation of forum rules dont allow for a direct answer. P.S. Dont you guys live just around th block?
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Re: One fine evening.....

Post by flybynight » Sat Sep 26, 2015 3:45 pm

GUN ??? You don't need to draw your gun. There's only three of them, with baseball bats. And you forgot to mention one little item......
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Re: One fine evening.....

Post by turbo6 » Sun Sep 27, 2015 3:07 pm

Given they have baseball bats, look thuggish and are hanging out in the middle of nowhere one can only assume they are up to good.

First, if possible I'd try avoidance, not crossing their path, alternative route etc.

If not possible, I'd try to diffuse the situation, acknowledge them at a safe distance, see how it plays out.

Their feedback ultimately decides how I act, but surely I would be watchful and not turn my back.

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Re: One fine evening.....

Post by LowKey » Sun Sep 27, 2015 3:23 pm

None of this ends well for the idiots who want my leather jacket.
Oddly enough, all of it is legal.
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Re: One fine evening.....

Post by DarkAxel » Sun Sep 27, 2015 3:40 pm

Well, let's see. Disparity of force (three on two), armed assailants advancing, and an implied desire to take something from you by force. Given the totality of the circumstances, a reasonable person could come to the conclusion that they were in imminent danger of death or serious injury.

If I were to find myself in this situation, I'd tell my SO to call 911 or start recording while I draw my weapon and stand in front of her. I say call or record because I personally know someone who spent 10 years in prison for defending himself against multiple attackers armed with bats. When the law showed up, his attackers claimed he attacked them, and he had no proof otherwise. 911 transcripts or a cell phone recording would go a long way toward proving your story when the law shows up, and two stories with evidence to back up those story trumps three stories with bumpkiss to back them up. Of course, if things are moving too fast it is always better to react and live than to die trying to cover your ass.
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Re: One fine evening.....

Post by taipan821 » Mon Sep 28, 2015 1:30 am

this is bending reality for me as
1. can't CCW in Australia
2. way to hot for leather jackets

but

1. I would be cursing myself for not noticing them earlier
2. call the police with location and emphasis on risk of harm
3. SO behind me and ask them what they want, then give it to them (no jacket is worth more than my life)

unfortunately, thugs around here travel in groups of 10 and will attack you for looking at them wrong :gonk:
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Re: One fine evening.....

Post by tedbeau » Mon Sep 28, 2015 11:41 am

DarkAxel wrote:Well, let's see. Disparity of force (three on two), armed assailants advancing, and an implied desire to take something from you by force. Given the totality of the circumstances, a reasonable person could come to the conclusion that they were in imminent danger of death or serious injury.

If I were to find myself in this situation, I'd tell my SO to call 911 or start recording while I draw my weapon and stand in front of her. I say call or record because I personally know someone who spent 10 years in prison for defending himself against multiple attackers armed with bats. When the law showed up, his attackers claimed he attacked them, and he had no proof otherwise. 911 transcripts or a cell phone recording would go a long way toward proving your story when the law shows up, and two stories with evidence to back up those story trumps three stories with bumpkiss to back them up. Of course, if things are moving too fast it is always better to react and live than to die trying to cover your ass.
Yeah I'm with DarkAxel on this one, I turn and angle away from them so I can see all three of them and get my wife behind me dialing 911. I draw my weapon and point it at the closest one. In Command Voice I tell them to back off or I start shooting. Any motion towards me and they are going to be swinging those bats at incoming 40 caliber hollow points!

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Re: One fine evening.....

Post by raptor » Mon Sep 28, 2015 12:06 pm

In my area we have what the locals call "gutter punks". They get aggressive with pan handling and this sounds similar to their tactics, except they are generally not openly armed.

That or one will come up behind you and sucker punch you in the head and then they take what they want. Typically they attack when you are getting into or out of a vehicle. They want the vehicle and not clothing.

They generally travel in pairs and pairs of pairs. They do not give not give a damn about anything or any body. They prefer old and/or weak targets.

In my state if a situation as offered by OP occurred, a lethal response would be justified by the disparity of force 3+ to one. The open display of weapons and the commission of a felony the strong armed robbery. This of course would not prevent the usual people from claiming they were good kids and making problems but so be it.

I do not wear a shoulder holster nor do I wear leather jackets (or expensive jewelry) so that would not be an issue. I would likewise assume that the others are armed since that is common in this area.

Simply put I would feign fear (hell it would not be difficult since the fear would likely be real) and compliance. I would then draw my CCW and give them a single chance to turn and flee.

It is situations like this that honest people need a CCW. Hopefully it never happens.

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Re: One fine evening.....

Post by Redacted » Mon Sep 28, 2015 6:51 pm

Hrm, maybe pull the gun and take my SO hostage telling the thugs to back the Hell up or she gets it, then slowly back away dragging my victim along shouting gibberish in a foreign accent.

Maybe you'll get lucky and they'll call the police. If not then you have a human shield to provide cover while you pick them off.
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