Active Shooter Vid from LAPD

Discuss those "what if" or "what would you do" scenarios you've been wondering about.

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Paladin1
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Active Shooter Vid from LAPD

Post by Paladin1 » Fri Jan 30, 2015 6:58 pm

Thought this might be of use, if nothing else food for thought.

Obviously, many of us have thought about this and have a plan of action.

Any opinions, comments or observations to share?

http://www.activeshooter.lasd.org/
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Re: Active Shooter Vid from LAPD

Post by woodsghost » Fri Jan 30, 2015 7:25 pm

Interesting.

The first guy just goes off and starts shooting people. The other shooters in the video seem rather impulsive. This is a common portrayal of "gun nuts" and the reason for "waiting periods" to purchase various weapons. I'm not sure this is an accurate portrayal of the mental processes which lead to shootings, and that is potentially a harmful effect.

The shootings I remember reading about occur when the shooter comes to an area already armed and intent to do harm. The decision to kill others is not "impulsive." I understand it to be a decision reached after some thought. Which suggests it is not the worker who is currently in the boss's office who is like to go off, but the guy who was fired yesterday, or a few days ago, or that random stranger approaching the school, or that distressed person entering the mall..... Basically, there are warning signs, and there is a build up to the decision.

But this is my understanding, and I would love to see some stats which show a version more similar to some of the stories played out in this video. Stories where the decision to kill others was made impulsively and a weapon at hand was used. I feel that would suggest a different approach to active shooter situations.

Also, it is nice to hear "remember, it takes the police minuets, not seconds, to respond...." That seems like the greatest reason ever to CC. But to say more is going to mean my straying into politics.
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Re: Active Shooter Vid from LAPD

Post by Apathy » Fri Jan 30, 2015 9:17 pm

was that an SKS at 2:22?

The video was a bit cheesy, It sounded like they got all of their sounds from a kung Fu movie, and it gave me Leukophobia. Other than that, it was great step forward in the mutual prepping that the government and the general population should be doing.

My favorite person was the Professor. I loved how levelheaded she was. and I dig the emergency bag she had. I also liked the part about turning the ringer off on your cellphone. I never thought about that before.

One of the most important parts of the film was when they talked about not appearing to be a threat to the police. We all need to think about that.

I can't help but think about what I would do in those situations.

For instance, if I was in the class that locked down, should I go out and get in a gunfight with the gunman? Or should I stay in place.

If I was the hipster in the food court, would it be better to take shots at him while my lady friend goes out the back? or should I try circle around him and then pop up.

All this is assuming that I don't lose my head and panic.
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Re: Active Shooter Vid from LAPD

Post by woodsghost » Fri Jan 30, 2015 9:59 pm

Apathy wrote:was that an SKS at 2:22?
That, my friend, is a nickle plated Mini-14. That video had an eclectic assortment of guns. I wonder if they were all "Cali legal?" There are a few guns which have manged to somehow comply with Cali laws.
*Remember: I'm just a guy on the internet :)
*Don't go to stupid places with stupid people & do stupid things.
*Be courteous. Look normal. Be in bed by 10'clock.

“It's a dangerous business, Frodo, going out your door. You step onto the road, and if you don't keep your feet, there's no knowing where you might be swept off to.” -Bilbo Baggins.

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Re: Active Shooter Vid from LAPD

Post by Paladin1 » Sat Jan 31, 2015 1:32 am

Apathy wrote: One of the most important parts of the film was when they talked about not appearing to be a threat to the police. We all need to think about that.
That is a very good point to pick up. I did a dark shoothouse (allowed a flashlight) one time and in it a dummy was set up on a rail system. As you turned a corner they tripped the release and it came at you with it's hands up.

95% of people shot the target. which was a dressed as a unarmed women coming at you in a panic. There was ex-military and current LEO among those that put "her" down hard.

Seems I recall a case of that happening in the last couple years.
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Re: Active Shooter Vid from LAPD

Post by Stercutus » Sat Jan 31, 2015 6:20 pm

woodsghost wrote:
Apathy wrote:was that an SKS at 2:22?
That, my friend, is a nickle plated Mini-14. That video had an eclectic assortment of guns. I wonder if they were all "Cali legal?" There are a few guns which have manged to somehow comply with Cali laws.
The mini-14 with the 20 round magazine is not CA-Legal. Sometimes criminals cheat and use guns that are not legal. They should get in trouble for that. The scenarios seemed completely realistic to me.

Run, hide or fight back with a melee weapon against a firearm. None of these are good options. Best option will likely be to run away if you can.

If you get the chance checkout Terror at the Mall. Excellent documentary about a huge active shooting situation.
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Re: Active Shooter Vid from LAPD

Post by bcvojak » Fri Feb 13, 2015 4:46 pm

Not sure I believe the '20 mass shooting every year" "statistic"

But the Get out, visualize your movements, have a plan part was good.
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Re: Active Shooter Vid from LAPD

Post by woodsghost » Fri Feb 13, 2015 7:20 pm

bcvojak wrote:Not sure I believe the '20 mass shooting every year" "statistic"

But the Get out, visualize your movements, have a plan part was good.
From what I hear, Compton has a fair number of shootings. If you count every triple homicide as a "mass shooting" I bet you could hit that "20 a year" figure pretty quick. Or every time someone shoots 2+ people at a McDonalds or other place of business or school, you should hit "20 a year" without much difficulty. The issue is we need to know actual definitions so everyone is having the same conversation. "Mass shootings" conjures up images of 15+ people dead in a mall or school. While those happen, the words "mass" and "shooting" are pretty vague, and when combined, are open to use by those with all sorts of agendas.
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Re: Active Shooter Vid from LAPD

Post by zero11010 » Fri Feb 13, 2015 9:05 pm

bcvojak wrote:Not sure I believe the '20 mass shooting every year" "statistic"

You should. Do a little research on the topic. They happen very regularly. It would take all of about 10 minutes on google to hit a few major sites and get some basic info.


As to the video and content:
The 20 round mag in the mini 14 may have been California legal.
1) Any mags purchased before the magazine capacity ban are still legal (just like weapons purchased before the ban - you can find fully automatic weapons that are CA legal)
2) After the capacity ban, and until 2014 it was totally legal to buy a 20 or 30 round magazine with a spacer effectively limiting the capacity of the magazine to 10 rounds. These were for sale in gun shops and gun shows. There was a big business for buying "magazine repair kits" which did not have the same spacer limiting the capacity. Large boothes at gun shows would be completely devoted to selling these repair kits. This allowed you to buy an AR mag that was sized for 30 rounds and limited to 10 rounds, then get a repair kit increasing capacity to 30 rounds. In 2014 that loophole was closed, and it's now harder to get a 20 or 30 round magazine in California.

The Wilhelm scream at 2:21 was awesome. I mean the context was sad/terrible, but the sound effect was great.

Did you guys notice that in each case the shooter tended to wear military/tactical clothing? In the warehouse shooting the shooter's OD green jacket was visible (1:06). In the mall shooting the shooter had on some cargo pants (they looked like black BDU style pants) and a camo vest. In the school shooting the shooter had on military style boots and camo BDU style cargo pants. In most big cities, wearing camo clothing or molle gear makes you look aggressive and, at a glance, unstable. A preparedness minded friend told me that a girl once asked him why his backpack had "all of those places for bullets." She was talking about molle webbing. In her mind the loops were for bullets. You can laugh at her ignorance, or you can think about how to someone who doesn't know anything about tactical clothing (the bulk of the population) tactical clothing is unfamiliar and can look very aggressive. People draw conclusions about people wearing large bagging clothing with their pants below their butt. People draw conclusions about guys wearing military looking clothing when they walk through the mall, too.

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Re: Active Shooter Vid from LAPD

Post by manowar1313 » Sat Feb 14, 2015 10:50 am

Sorry but I couldn't watch the whole thing, why did everyone stick around after shots were fired? Like the first scene the dude has headphones on and apparently can't hear gun fire. I think this video benefits people with zero situational awareness who need to be told to run from someone shooting at you, the rest of us though already know.
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Re: Active Shooter Vid from LAPD

Post by bcvojak » Sat Feb 14, 2015 1:15 pm

zero11010 wrote:
bcvojak wrote:Not sure I believe the '20 mass shooting every year" "statistic"

You should. Do a little research on the topic. They happen very regularly. It would take all of about 10 minutes on google to hit a few major sites and get some basic info..
I did. .

US Mass Shootings, 1982-2012:
A public mass shooting occurred on average every 172 days since 1982 (That would be ~2 per year)
Analyses the 61 mass killings in America, from between 1982 and 2012 (That would be ~2 per year)

And that's from Mother Jones News. . A ANTI-GUN magazine who would want to present the worst scenario possible!

Eric Holder says:
The yearly average of mass shootings has tripled from an average of five per year between the years of 2000 and 2008, the attorney general said. At least 12 mass shootings have taken place in 2013.

And I'm guessing that's partly because the ANTI-GUN Attorney General re-defined what a "mass shooting" is

The FBI defines mass murder as 4 or more killed.
In 2012, there were either 81 or 88 murdered in mass shootings, depending on your source.

So even here the number 20 per year is unlikely since in many shootings (like the navy yard shooting) far more than 4 were killed.

Sounds like someone took the number 81, and divided it my 4 to create a made up statistic of 20 per year. . .

In fact, the video contradicts it's self. First it says a active shooter event where 4 or more are killed every 2.9 months (that's 4.1 per year). Then it says, 20 mass shooting per year. So is it 4.1 or 20??????

Sounds like they pulled the number 20 out of their. . . . . .
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Re: Active Shooter Vid from LAPD

Post by woodsghost » Sat Feb 14, 2015 1:38 pm

bcvojak wrote: I did. .

US Mass Shootings, 1982-2012:
A public mass shooting occurred on average every 172 days since 1982 (That would be ~2 per year)
Analyses the 61 mass killings in America, from between 1982 and 2012 (That would be ~2 per year)

And that's from Mother Jones News. . A ANTI-GUN magazine who would want to present the worst scenario possible!

And what definition were they using?

Eric Holder says:
The yearly average of mass shootings has tripled from an average of five per year between the years of 2000 and 2008, the attorney general said. At least 12 mass shootings have taken place in 2013.

And I'm guessing that's partly because the ANTI-GUN Attorney General re-defined what a "mass shooting" is

Definitions matter, and it matters who is doing the defining.

The FBI defines mass murder as 4 or more killed.
In 2012, there were either 81 or 88 murdered in mass shootings, depending on your source.

So even here the number 20 per year is unlikely since in many shootings (like the navy yard shooting) far more than 4 were killed.

Sounds like someone took the number 81, and divided it my 4 to create a made up statistic of 20 per year. . .

In fact, the video contradicts it's self. First it says a active shooter event where 4 or more are killed every 2.9 months (that's 4.1 per year). Then it says, 20 mass shooting per year. So is it 4.1 or 20??????

Could be differences between county/state/federal/lobby group definitions.

Sounds like they pulled the number 20 out of their. . . . . .
*Remember: I'm just a guy on the internet :)
*Don't go to stupid places with stupid people & do stupid things.
*Be courteous. Look normal. Be in bed by 10'clock.

“It's a dangerous business, Frodo, going out your door. You step onto the road, and if you don't keep your feet, there's no knowing where you might be swept off to.” -Bilbo Baggins.

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