Jurassic scenario

Discuss those "what if" or "what would you do" scenarios you've been wondering about.

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Re: Jurassic scenario

Post by JeeperCreeper » Sat Dec 20, 2014 10:52 am

alessandro wrote: - cutting tools suitable for jungles, for the kitchen, etc
Most of my cutting tools are dual purpose Jungle Kitchen knives so I have that covered.
alessandro wrote: - diving equipment with some robots also if later is find a lake or other (just in case, but since are present dinosaur even under water without thinking of diving for fun)
Diving for fun can be dangerous. Make sure you know the depth of the water or else risk severe neck/spinal injury. It happened to my Uncle Rico once, he now eats out of a straw.
alessandro wrote: Regarding the transport of animals ... mmm ... I think is problematic because they make noise and attract undue attention from local animals.
I can see this being an issue. Normally when I walk my dog, just the fact that I am transporting him really makes other animals come out of the wood work. I have to make sure the swarms of squirrels don't flank us because they hear me transporting him.
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Re: Jurassic scenario

Post by alessandro » Sat Dec 20, 2014 11:10 am

Perhaps could be transported some:
- fish, eventually as "avanotti" (google translate it as fry but I don't sure is the right term), so less space and little smell
- hares
- some volatile
useful for food.
So if a cargo with a part of them (hares or volatile) is lost during the travel for an attack from some dinosaur, probably they would be proficient enough to survive and reproduce.
Also when the last vehicle is at least 100m away from the portal (naturally the convoy take a direction against the wind), the people on the other side could send:
- herbivorous animals as:
horses, deer, wild boar, goats, sheep, Capreolus capreolus, Dama dama and some animals from the jungle with the same features
- birds as:
pheasants, quail, ducks, geese, turkeys, ostriches, emu, etc.
that rappresent a good meat, on the other side, until the connection persists.
Order of exist:
- bird and small-medium size animal
- big bird don't able to fly and big animal (if remain sufficient time before the close of the portal)

Essentially the people on the other side should put the cages with the animals near the portal, open them from the side facing the portal, at a distance of a few cm, and push the animals out of their cages.
On this way increases later the possibility to find meat and create a potential source of distraction for the carnivorous dinosaurs.
Basically the idea consist on introduce invasive species for alimentary use, regardless if only part of them survives.
Finally, people from the other side by the other part will push more armored containers (equipped with wheels) with various material on the other side where they will remain abandoned until be recovered later.

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Re: Jurassic scenario

Post by alessandro » Mon Dec 22, 2014 8:11 am

Second approach suitable for a scenario in which the portal is crowding with dinosaur and/or a relative safe place is too much distant.
Instead to attempt to realize a convoy flexible enough for reach a location see with the drone, remain near the portal, and eliminate the dinosaur from the surrounding area while simultaneously fortifying the perimeter.
While bearing in mind that the carcasses of huge dinosaurs aren't easy to dispose, besides attract animals that feed on carrion, so think a system for kill them when they are sufficient distant, using some distraction, as sound trap or similar.
Later decide whether it is worth planning to move to a new location or not.
Use helicopter drone UAV (Unmanned Aerial Vehicle) to understand the situation on the other side of the portal, while only later will be releasing a UGV, because the animals fleeing could destroy it. On this way is possible reduce a bit the possibility.
Use the take-off weight possible on some model of UAV for drop useful thing.

In every way the initial phase managed through drones will be reduced in minutes because the portal can stay open only 1 hour.

Strategy.
1) From behind the portal:
- launch some grenade at some dinosaur near the portal, to scare the group so that they run away
Some training stun noise grenade instead of the Mk 141 Mod 0.
Since they does not contain any gun powder or explosives, should not produce a fire hazard.
Some sting grenade over some small dinosaur.
- if some of them don't go away launch a different type of granade but this time against them
Concussion (offensive) hand grenade: MK3 A2
- if some one persist to go near the portal use a bazooka, instead of an anti-tank missile, for reduce futher the possibility of produce an involuntary fires.
MATADOR (Man-portable Anti-Tank, Anti-DOoR)
Since is a recoilless rifle (RCLR) and don't a rocket launcher, the projectile has no propulsion of its own.
4 XactSense Titan UAV with LIDAR SLAM mapping capabilities forward but at different time for the limited autonomy.
2 Skeldar V-200
Fast forward 8 Ripsaw MS2 UGV equipped with an M2 .50 cal machine gun for attempt to enlarge the perimeter as large as possible.
2) Fast forward tanks on a numbers sufficient to make a large perimeter for the new base.
6 K2 “Black Panther” (crew 3)
6 FV4034 Challenger 2 (crew 4)
3) Second line of defense around the perimeter.
5 x Cougar HE 6x6 MRAP (Mine Resistant Ambush Protected Patrol Vehicle) (crew 1+ passengers 10) with RWS (Remote Weapon System) carrying a 12.7mm HMG (.50 inch) and Oshkosh TAK-4 independent suspension system.
Privileging the maneuverability instead of the armor which probably will be insufficient on every vehicle beside the tank.
4) Transport equipment on huge container to be placed around the perimeter as a form of passive defensive measure.
10 x Oshkosh Defense PLS (Palletised Load System) A1 M1074A1 + Oshkosh Defense PLS M1076 trailer (PLST)
Between the "light" firearm equipment put even some machine gun while disassemble them, for position them around the perimeter, once is made a perimeter, from those present in vehicles no longer usable.
Transport even some smaller UAV as the:
ASV-100 is able to operate without rely on a Gps
and/or the
SR200 Rotary controlled manually since don't exist a Gps on the era.
5) Transport troupe and civilian.
5 x AAV-7 (crew 3+ passengers 21) armed with .50 cal machinegun and 40mm grenade launcher
5 x Iveco SuperAV 8x8 armed with RWS carrying a 40mm cannon (crew 1+ passengers 12)
6) Fast forward big construction equipment that should start immediately the construction of a barrier.
2 Caterpillar D9R WHA Crawler Tractor
2 Caterpillar R2900G Wheel Loader
2 Caterpillar EL300B Hydraulic Excavator
2 Caterpillar M322D Mobile Excavator
Caterpillar 426C Loader Backhoe
2 Oshkosh Defense MTVR MK30 DUM (Height: 3556 mm reducible until 2489 mm, so should be possible reduce it until 3500mm to pass from the portal) although it has a lower capacity than the Caterpillar D350D Articulated Dump Truck) fitted with TerraMax UGV (unmanned ground vehicle) technology
4 Caterpillar D5H TSK Series II Skidder
2 Caterpillar 573 Feller Buncher
Attach behind the construction equipment container on wheels for increasing the amount of food, ammo and material of various kind available.

In the end I switched the transport of people before the construction equipment because with only 1 hour of time something could stay out.

Cons.
Using this strategy the possible initial losses could be keep at minimum, producing a boost in the morale, but:
- became a lot more difficult think of ways to introduce our animals
While the introduction of different birds should be remain relative easy since most of them are able to fly.
If later was considered appropriate move to a new location:
- require some vehicle for transport the huge construction equipment since they are slow
Last edited by alessandro on Fri Dec 26, 2014 10:28 am, edited 46 times in total.

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Re: Jurassic scenario

Post by MacAttack » Tue Dec 23, 2014 12:25 am

I would say the experiment failed and a new civilization was not established on the other side way back in time.


The proof is we are still doing this experiment and time has not changed, we are not 50million years ahead of ourselves and living through a time when dinos roam around outside our houses.

The crew going through the portal could use the radio while the portal is open to ask history questions of the people who stayed back.

Is the two stay consistent then history never changed and the experiment failed but if the answers are different then it did change and thus worked.

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Re: Jurassic scenario

Post by alessandro » Tue Dec 23, 2014 2:26 am

MacAttack wrote:The crew going through the portal could use the radio while the portal is open to ask history questions of the people who stayed back.
Unlikely that there may be similar discussions during the clashes with dinosaurs and with so limited time for the coordination of the crossing.
Might as well be happen a "simple" division of the Timeline.

Anyway for the purpose of this game is not important.

Note:
Do you've heard about Atlantis?

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Re: Jurassic scenario

Post by 84MeanMachine » Tue Dec 23, 2014 1:30 pm

alessandro wrote:Strategy for a scenario where there aren't many dinosaur around the portal and/or a new safe place is relative close.
Use a remotely operated vehicle that operate overland with 15 camera:
5 day camera
- 4 on fixed position (north west south east) with fixed lens that cover 90°
- over the top of the vehicle put a camera with zoom lens in a medium which allows the 360° rotation
5 night vision camera
- near the position of the day camera
5 thermal vision camera
-

U have a hour... and i read this Why...?
Somewhere U met someone that just might be a zombie time to time.. That someone may be both You and I I I III Ihhh

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Re: Jurassic scenario

Post by 84MeanMachine » Tue Dec 23, 2014 1:41 pm

I would want to bring all the same things as Indiana Jones... With a i-pod and a sun-power charger so I can sit up in the trees and listen to the sound track off of the movie Mario... Maybe ill find Yoshi so i can put a saddle on him and ride him like a horse... Hey wasnt there some blog photo before of indiana jones riding a yoshi... I think soooo.... Now you know Portals are in exsistance, or no-longer exsist because i had to enter a portal within a hour and pretend i was Indiana Jones.. in which i just now met myself in the future at the same time i wrote this... By the way dinosaurs do not taste like chicken.. More like a huge Frog... Oh Nevermind... I was in a nother cave-man moment...
Somewhere U met someone that just might be a zombie time to time.. That someone may be both You and I I I III Ihhh

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Re: Jurassic scenario

Post by JeeperCreeper » Tue Dec 23, 2014 8:46 pm

MacAttack wrote:I would say the experiment failed and a new civilization was not established on the other side way back in time.


The proof is we are still doing this experiment and time has not changed, we are not 50million years ahead of ourselves and living through a time when dinos roam around outside our houses.

The crew going through the portal could use the radio while the portal is open to ask history questions of the people who stayed back.

Is the two stay consistent then history never changed and the experiment failed but if the answers are different then it did change and thus worked.
No, the experiment worked. I can't believe he pulled it off!!!

The original timeline in history has the Dinosaurs living into the modern age, in a Dinotopia if you will, with humans and Dinos living in harmony. Opening the portal and sending humans back to the Jurassic period with tanks and weapons of destruction caused them to be extinct. How many species are no longer around because of humans??

It wasn't a meteor that killed the dinosaurs.... it was us....
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Re: Jurassic scenario

Post by alessandro » Wed Dec 24, 2014 2:46 am

84MeanMachine wrote:U have a hour... Why...?
For make things more difficult. :mrgreen:

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Re: Jurassic scenario

Post by alessandro » Wed Dec 24, 2014 3:41 am

After thinking the second strategy I noticed that in large part can be superimposed on the first scenario so I will update it (again). :D

Among other I want to increase the partecipation of the people that remain behind the portal with the use of more UAV and UGV directed by them, since don't really matter if a quantity of drone is destroyed, lost, crushed, etc, switching the command on some of them once the troupe after the tank came through the portal, while other after the communication through the portal is lost.
But I think I will mantain a rather low number of UAV on the fly given their:
- limited fuel autonomy so it is likely that many simply crashes to the ground after are empty
- greater difficulty of protection against fly dinosaur
Also few of them should be more then sufficient for a territorial mapping of a good size although not extremely precise.

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Re: Jurassic scenario

Post by Zimmy » Wed Dec 24, 2014 9:49 am

Feral hogs and cottontails are a good idea. Hogs will probably wreak havoc on the local flora and fauna. They'd also be a good indication if your journals are going to be short and messy or long and boring. If the local plants, animals, and microbes kill all the hogs, your screwed and your days will likely be numbered longest by your provisions.

A spec ops grade combat medic would be a plus.

A couple of paleobotonists. For all I know, dang near all the plants are toxic/indigestible at this stage of evolution.

Adding some primitive skills farmers with some fast growing varieties added to the normal stuff would be helpful. You could end up eating nothing but wheatgrass and chia grass shoots in hard times between production. Yuck. Then again, the chia could well propagate and coat the whole damned area in a year by strangling out all the native plants. You and the hogs would eat often.

I'd send all these folks through the gamut of Sam Coffman's Human Path primitive skills courses in San Antonio.

Guns are sexy. I forgot blasters.

Shorty breaching style shotguns for the giant Mosquitos and flying snakes.

AR platform 7.62 rifles with grenade launchers. Lots of flechette for blinding, HE for blasting, and CS for general blinding mayhem grenades.

I guess, since this is fantasy Dino land, my fellow troopers should all range in appearance between Sophia Vergara and Kate Upton.
Boldly going nowhere

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Re: Jurassic scenario

Post by 84MeanMachine » Wed Dec 24, 2014 12:24 pm

alessandro wrote:
84MeanMachine wrote:U have a hour... Why...?
For make things more difficult. :mrgreen:
Sorry, Your time is precious..?
Somewhere U met someone that just might be a zombie time to time.. That someone may be both You and I I I III Ihhh

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Re: Jurassic scenario

Post by alessandro » Fri Dec 26, 2014 10:02 am

Trying to make an estimate of the amount of food needed for person I realized that I must lowers the number of people to maintain sufficient food for short period of time ... :?
Considering also that a part of the load may be lost, more so on the first scenario. :x
Well, I will try some other change. :D

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Re: Jurassic scenario

Post by majorhavoc » Fri Dec 26, 2014 11:40 am

alessandro wrote:Trying to make an estimate of the amount of food needed for person I realized that I must lowers the number of people to maintain sufficient food for short period of time ... :?
Considering also that a part of the load may be lost, more so on the first scenario. :x
Well, I will try some other change. :D

Two words: dino burgers.

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Re: Jurassic scenario

Post by alessandro » Fri Dec 26, 2014 12:08 pm

Yeah but I don't known if they are edible and what kind of disease they can carry.
So I think would be absolutely essential an autonomy of food for at least some few months at minimum.
Also bearing in mind the slow cycle of human development hypothesize a number of persons sufficient to prevent the extinction is not simple while mantain a proper balance between people, food, ammo, equipment.
But this is also the reason why I think this game is fun, because is difficult! :D

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Re: Jurassic scenario

Post by JeeperCreeper » Sat Dec 27, 2014 1:39 am

Soak the dinoasaur meat in moonshine. It's scientifically proven to destroy an disease/parasite. Thats how I regulary marinate my dino meat...
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Re: Jurassic scenario

Post by MacAttack » Sun Dec 28, 2014 2:03 pm

Well since we know exactly how big and what shape the portal is going to be then we can pre make several hundred carriers to exactly the right shape to fit through the hole.

Ifyougive a reasonable 15 seconds for each vehicle to go through the portal you could get over 200 vehicles through.

And that is all they are. Carriers. not off road trucks or long distance hullers. They only need to go a few hundred meters on the other side.

The first few could be troop carriers with turrets of 50 caliber machine guns on top. Just to keep any dinos back from the rest of the convoy.

After they are on the other side the wheels and drive trains can be removed from the carrier boxes and the boxes can be then used as the first housing and storage units for the group.

The drive trains and wheels can be reassembled into usable off road vehicles and smaller trucks.


But first I must ask the question.
Why are we going back to a time when dinos walked the earth? Why not a time to just after the dinos died off but before the mega fauna took over? A much safer time for mankind.
Plus can we choose the 'landing' spot for the portal?
If so then an isolated Island like England would be good. It actually has enough natural resources to make a colony viable, unlike a volcanic Island like Hawaii would have. Plus its close enough to mainland Europe that a short trip to establish other mines would be easily possible.

I am assuming we have all of the modern knowledge of were all this stuff is located in the ground.

More later.

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Re: Jurassic scenario

Post by alessandro » Mon Dec 29, 2014 9:23 am

MacAttack wrote:But first I must ask the question.
Why are we going back to a time when dinos walked the earth?
Some hints here.
MacAttack wrote:Plus can we choose the 'landing' spot for the portal?
Essentially this portal is in an experimental stage from years and the evacuation is forced due to external causes without the possibility to devote additional time for improvements and test, so you are already lucky that work. :D
MacAttack wrote:I am assuming we have all of the modern knowledge of were all this stuff is located in the ground.
Sorry I don't understand. :?:
MacAttack wrote:Carriers. not off road trucks or long distance hullers. They only need to go a few hundred meters on the other side.
Assuming the second scenario may be sufficient carriers but since naturally don't exist roads, the likely wild vegetation around, if the position, despite the efforts, can not be maintained vehicles with limited off-road capabilities would be inefficient or even unusable.
MacAttack wrote:The first few could be troop carriers with turrets of 50 caliber machine guns on top. Just to keep any dinos back from the rest of the convoy.
Could be don't sufficient against the bigger and could result on the opposite effect to enrage them instead.
If that happen a bigger size dinosaur might have time to break through the perimeter before dying, and would suffice their mere dead mass that collapses for crush the vehicles behind it.

Considering also the natural better mobility of an animal, respect a vehicle, regardless at their maximum speed, which can also be relatively "small":
50 km/h / 60 minute = 0.833 = 833 meters each 1 minute
you have little time for terminate a dino that run against you.
If it is just a few hundred meters away this is only a matter of few seconds.

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Re: Jurassic scenario

Post by MacAttack » Mon Dec 29, 2014 1:09 pm

If the vehicles can't get through the vegetation then the large dinos can't either.

Dinos are animals. Nothing special. If they are getting hurt they will go away. All other animals do. They are just animals, not rampaging zombie animals. They will not hunt while getting hurt.

I can assume that we know the locations of all the minerals in the ground. Such as iron,copper salt, oil and other needed things. We know were the mines are.
Their locations would not have moved much. Or at least they can be tracked by geologic drift.

You don't need roads to drive a standard truck on. They can take quite a bit as long as the ground is hard enough. And they are only moving at slightly more than a walking pace. A few KPH will get them through the portal and a hundred meters beyond in under a minute.
The only thing to stop them would a swamp, going uphill at to steep a rate, driving off a cliff, deep snow, or the trees are to think to drive around and through. And all of these things would also limit the dimos rate of movement and or keep them away all together.

The carriers need to be nothing more than huge sleds pulled by tractors or tanks. They made and used them in World War 2 to carry troops and cargo. They will go over any area a tank can and are only limited in size and weight by the tanks pulling power. Wheels are not even need, they are only going a hundred meters to the other side.
If they have a roof they are now a house.

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Re: Jurassic scenario

Post by alessandro » Tue Dec 30, 2014 10:54 am

MacAttack wrote:If the vehicles can't get through the vegetation then the large dinos can't either.
Right, but this pose other issue.
Usually relative smaller animal are more agile, remain more difficult shoot between trees, high caliber as the .50 do not present the same maneuver as smaller portable solutions, dino may be present above the trees.
MacAttack wrote:Dinos are animals. Nothing special. If they are getting hurt they will go away.
I would not bet everything on this possibility as a matter of prudence.
MacAttack wrote:I can assume that we know the locations of all the minerals in the ground. Such as iron,copper salt, oil and other needed things. We know were the mines are.
Their locations would not have moved much. Or at least they can be tracked by geologic drift.
Since they don't known where the portal is open and naturally don't exist a GPS similar information could be useful later, once they pass the portal, if they put this type of data from that time on computer for all the Earth, doing good reconnaissance.
This is an interesting possibilities that you have thought.

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Re: Jurassic scenario

Post by jdavidboyd » Tue Dec 30, 2014 11:07 am

With my luck, I'd get there 5 minutes before the giant asteroid that killed off all the dinosaurs hits... :shock:
What's so funny 'bout peace, love, and understanding?

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Re: Jurassic scenario

Post by alessandro » Wed Dec 31, 2014 4:43 am

jdavidboyd wrote:With my luck, I'd get there 5 minutes before the giant asteroid that killed off all the dinosaurs hits... :shock:
:lol:
Since between Extinction event pass time, and for sake of this game, think at that possibility as something remote to be taken into account by the future generations, with the advantage that you known (more or less) the period when happen.

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Re: Jurassic scenario

Post by KGBrick » Wed Dec 31, 2014 3:38 pm

MacAttack wrote: Why are we going back to a time when dinos walked the earth? Why not a time to just after the dinos died off but before the mega fauna took over? A much safer time for mankind.
Image

I'm with you on 'dinosaurs are animals.' Regular ole' human sized zombies would be more trouble. The only real danger after the first few minutes of the portal being open is the same kind of danger you get from mountain lions and grizzly bears; don't let them sneak up on you and be prepared to kill one if you startle it or scare it the wrong way.

I bet they taste a lot like chicken.

I also bet I have a tame (not domesticated - not yet!) dinosaur within a year.

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Re: Jurassic scenario

Post by alessandro » Thu Jan 01, 2015 7:23 am

KGBrick wrote:'Regular ole' human sized zombies would be more trouble.
I don't think so for various reasons:
- the zombi have no brain, differently for what happen on living creature (regardless to its level of development) therefore can't evolve or act differently, put it simply are dumb and predicable
- the zombi can't reproduce, anything that can't reproduce is destined to extinction, assuming a proper organization and the weapons should not even be exceptional
- a zombi occupies a specific niche, can't fly, can't be smaller as insect, etc., so you known exactly when a danger could came.
Sure half zombi that crawl on the ground, zombi underwater are a possibility but the things don't chage much.

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