Stranded on a cruise ship....WWYD

Discuss those "what if" or "what would you do" scenarios you've been wondering about.

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Re: Stranded on a cruise ship....WWYD

Post by MacAttack » Fri Feb 15, 2013 12:16 am

They obviously had enough power for the fire system.

My question is why did the toilets stop when the power went out?

Maybe they were the type that needs high pressure water to work. A low flow type.
If that's the problem then they could have kept problems from happening by making the passengers use a bucket of water to make them flush.
but I am sure some passengers were stupid and didn't do that and thus blocked up the whole works.



Well at least they are back in port and no one got hurt during the inconvenience.

I would look at this like a fun vacation. Or at least something to remember. How many vacations do people take and they have no real memories of good or bad? With the right attitude this just turns into an bug in for fun with an free vacation later.

Of the vacations I remember the ones that stick out are the ones something surprising happened.
Like the camper wheel came off driving down the road. Dad and grandpa sinking the canoe. The tornado that happened the year we were in the pop-up camper and it wiped out half the camp ground. Spent time in a ditch watching campers get totaled and thrown into the lake.

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Re: Stranded on a cruise ship....WWYD

Post by ZombieKillingGeek » Fri Feb 15, 2013 8:22 pm

Good news! Every deck is the poop deck! Go nuts!

BTW I love cruises.

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Re: Stranded on a cruise ship....WWYD

Post by Evan the Diplomat » Sat Feb 16, 2013 12:06 am

As a Navy Surface Warfare Officer with 11 and a half years of almost continuous sea duty, and I've been cold, dark and quiet out in the middle of the ocean, let me correct some misconceptions.

These ships are highly automated with minimal manning below decks. Yes, many of the crewmen, especially below decks come from the Philippines, Bangladesh or Ukraine. That does not make them bad mariners, but they are not a cohesive team.

These cruise ships are huge (more about this later). I served on the Navy's smallest aircraft carrier, USS MIDWAY CV-41 (tip of the spear, shaft to follow) and it only had a 74 foot freeboard. That cruise ship looks to have at least 200-230 feet.

This is all sail area. So much more of that ship is above the water than below the water that it needs computerized fin stabilizers to keep an even keel. The ship looses power and it looses stability and starts to rock back and forth with the swells and breeze.

People are creatures of habit, they don't know how bad it is and I'm certain they were not told how long repairs would take. They crapped in their toilet thinking they would flush it down when the power came back. But they filled it to the brim and then the rocking started, and the toilet bowls sloshed.

See all of those levels above the main deck. You don't want them to have much water tight integrity because if they hold fire fighting water or storm water it really messes with stability so that water runs down. Down walls. People weren't crapping on the walls, it was sloshing out and running down the gaps between levels.

For you bright guys who think you can just piss off the fan tail. This isn't a Bayliner, see all those levels, you'd need a dick like a fire hose to clear the side of the ship and hit the ocean. Most guys probable pissed down the exterior of the ship where the hot sun quickly evaporated it and and added to the smell. Even pissing down the deck drains on the weather decks would quickly start to reek. You've got nothing to flush with.

Navy ships use sea water to fight fires with and our flushing water comes off of the fire main loops. No power, no pumps, no pressure, no flushing. I suspect cruise ships are built in a similar design, with hard-pipped chemicals systems in the engine compartments. Also your brown trout don't get flushed straight out to sea. It has to go through a Containment Holding and Transfer (CHT) system. That includes thing like a macerator that literally eats the corn in your shit and chews up the shit paper and other stuff into a fine slurry so your mahi mahi doesn't come ashore wrapped in used TP. Those need power too.

Your potable sink, shower and cooking water come from a flash distiller on Navy ships. Those need power too. I don't know about the ultra modern cruise ships they are not intended to deploy for six months. Considering that they average two or three nights between ports, it is possible that they just have tanks that are re-filled at each port call.

I figure they have some propane grills around the pools (electrical starters I bet) that would square with the stories of long lines to get food. Also health regs might not have allowed them to serve meat and such after x number of hours without refrigeration.

My big question is where were the emergency diesel generators and what systems did they power when operating.
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Re: Stranded on a cruise ship....WWYD

Post by sheddi » Sat Feb 16, 2013 5:14 am

The BBC have a report with some cameraphone video of conditions ont he ship here:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-21468632" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

TBH it doesn't look like anything that would seriously inconvenience most hardened ZSers!
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Re: Stranded on a cruise ship....WWYD

Post by the_alias » Sat Feb 16, 2013 5:33 am

Evan - great post.

I can't imagine a worse hell than a cruise holiday though :lol:


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Re: Stranded on a cruise ship....WWYD

Post by ZombieKillingGeek » Sat Feb 16, 2013 10:08 am

Maybe next time I take a cruise I will bring a bug in back. Garbage bag and duct tape to cover my toilet to make sure the sewage doesn't leak out, few Bottles of water, some canned goods...

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Re: Stranded on a cruise ship....WWYD

Post by Aceman » Sat Feb 16, 2013 12:56 pm

First of all, I WOULD have my 'go' shoulder bag with me, which means enough paracord to rig a sling to wiz/dump in the ocean...

And as for a night out on the gulf, I live in Tampa. So no issues there. Was probably a low 70. HAng on the deck and catch the breeze. Have a Mojito or two.

The fact that people were/may not have been told to not take a dump in the toilet is a first issue. The second is that if they were, they clearly ignored it. I have to say, I don't know about cruises, but the airlines are horrible liars at telling you when they don't know what is going on - yet we all know they don't know.

I agree that this was at least 90% a discomfort/inconvenience issue. I maintain the unbelievable bunch of whiners makes me ashamed to be an American. Little adversity on a Luxury Cruise...PUH-LEEZE!

I say the whole batch should have been torpedoed and sent to the bottom.

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Re: Stranded on a cruise ship....WWYD

Post by Aceman » Sat Feb 16, 2013 12:58 pm

And by the way - the vacation was not ruined. They were on their last day headed back!!!!

So they got a vacation AND a survival adventure. Bonus!!!!

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Re: Stranded on a cruise ship....WWYD

Post by rjm » Sun Feb 17, 2013 2:01 am

My wife and I have been on many cruises as well and every one had some small problem arise. In each instance there were those who imediatly began to shout and hollar about this and that and generally make the situation worse.

When those situations happened , I always said to myself, "I am on vacation, and I am going to have a good time."
We got held up(couldn't board the ship, not at gunpoint) once by a wedding party at the gate for 5 hours; "I'm on vacation... have a good time."
There was a loose bracket banging on the outside of out bulkhead making a booming sound all night: "I'm on vacation...have a good time."
We pay for a Mayan ruin tour and the drug cartels have shut them down; "I'm on vacation...have a good time."

I also question the account of the cucumber and onion sandwich. I understand they're not being able to prepair hot meals, but (again) I've been on cruises before and I've had many wonderful cold meals. I can guarantee you if a ship has several thousand dollars worth of cold-cuts in stock and there is the choice of feeding people with it and letting it spoil, you are going to see a regular bonanza of baloney,roast beef, and salami sandwiches.

Least we forget that these people were out there for less than 5 days. That's FIVE days. This is being treated as if these people went through the same ordeal as the Uruguayan soccer team that crashed in the Andes. These people had food, water, shelter, and every possible comfort available and still they claim it was a living hell. It strikes me how people are so programed that if they know a toilet won't flush, they will continue to pull the handle expecting it to work, not even thinking to try something else. This really is a great learning experience for the rest of us in the way people handle disruption (and I mean disruption, not disaster).


I really fear for our society if all civilization collapses at the first sniff of poo.
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Carnival Triumph as microcosm of TEOTWAWKI

Post by Pilsung » Sun Feb 17, 2013 2:57 pm

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nationa ... -1.1261258" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Foul conditions aboard stranded Carnival cruise ship Triumph: Passengers describe 'sewage running down the walls' and people acting like 'savages'

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Slate: On Cruise Ship from Hell, Pity Staff, Not Passengers

Post by Pilsung » Sun Feb 17, 2013 3:11 pm

http://www.salon.com/2013/02/15/cruise_ ... assengers/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

It wasn't fun on the Triumph. But its workers, usually not protected by U.S. labor law, deserve our sympathy.

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Re: Stranded on a cruise ship....WWYD

Post by RoneKiln » Sun Feb 17, 2013 3:57 pm

Pilsung wrote:http://www.salon.com/2013/02/15/cruise_ ... assengers/

It wasn't fun on the Triumph. But its workers, usually not protected by U.S. labor law, deserve our sympathy.
I've had several friends work for Carnival and they all loved it. They got plenty of time off, amazing free food, free trips and activities while in port, and they all came home with a stronger savings account cause while the pay was low, everything had been paid for (including rock climbing, paragliding, scuba lessons, and biking through tropical islands). They worked hard when they were out of port, but they had a lot of oppurtunities to play hard as well.

Now I admit, these were all young single adults. They might tell a very different story if they had taken the jobs to try to feed a family (and if they'd been without air conditioning and had to smell sewage). But for saving money for college and having an awesome experience, they all spoke very highly of the experience and the company.
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Re: Stranded on a cruise ship....WWYD

Post by Dawgboy » Sun Feb 17, 2013 5:47 pm

Pilsung is right. Carnival corporation is a major sack of shit. Most of their workers are poorly paid and live in substandard conditions onboard already. The practice of a US corporation with an HQ in Miami having all their vessels flagged in a foreign nation so they can avoid US maritime and labor law, and paying their fair of taxes is a travesty.

It used to be that if a ship "for hire" left and returned to a US port, it had to be US flagged. They managed to change that and reap huge profits because of it. Meanwhile, how much did the USCG spend in the rescue efforts of this foreign flagged deathtrap?

Sounds like the US tax payer carries the burden on both ends of this scenario...
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Re: Stranded on a cruise ship....WWYD

Post by mariposa » Sun Feb 17, 2013 10:38 pm

the_alias wrote:Evan - great post.

I can't imagine a worse hell than a cruise holiday though :lol:
I agree with this on both counts. I'm afraid of travel by boat/ship, so I'll probably never find myself on a cruise ship, but this has been a very interesting thread.

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Re: Stranded on a cruise ship....WWYD

Post by BigDaddyTX » Sun Feb 17, 2013 11:26 pm

:/
Our cruise got cancelled. We're booking on the same ship again in June. Hopefully it'll be done by then, and completely re-outfitted. I'm still bringing a tarp,extra water and extra baby diapers. My wife is completely on board with the idea for a change though.
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Adrift at sea

Post by Pilsung » Mon Feb 18, 2013 3:59 pm

http://www.theburningplatform.com/?p=49315" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The big story this past week was the fate of the passengers on the Carnival Triumph as their skyscraper sized ship was left adrift at sea for days without power. This 900 foot long, 100,000 ton goliath is one of the largest passenger cruise liners in the world, carrying 3,400 passengers and 1,100 crew members in luxurious splendor through warm Gulf of Mexico seas to sun drenched exotic isles. These ships are practically floating countries, with passengers treated to an endless American buffet of never ending quantities of bacon, sausage, biscuits, gravy, fried chicken, mashed potatoes, waffles, pizza, cheesecake, soda, beer and the rum drink of the day. There are retail stores, restaurants, bars, ice skating rinks, movie theaters, showplaces, and staff waiting on you hand and foot. No cash changes hands. You charge everything to your room number and then just pay with one of your 13 credit cards at the conclusion of your voyage into debt. Then you pay 18% interest on the 25 Funky Monkeys you consumed for the next 14 years. Cruising captures the essence of America as we traverse our voyage to hell.

The ordeal at sea of the Carnival Triumph and the leadership displayed by the Carnival management and executive officers is a microcosm of our declining empire. The $420 million Carnival Triumph was put into service in 1999 and has run continuously for the last fourteen years, with only periodic dry dock maintenance. These massive ships are replenished within hours of docking and depart within twelve hours of dumping their 3,400 passengers back onshore. The CEO and top management of Carnival care only about ROI and whether their stock options are vested. Their goal is to bilk the passengers out of as much cash as possible, while paying their foreign slave labor crew members as little as possible. The ships are registered in foreign countries for tax purposes and the crew members are mostly from third world countries. Carnival executives and shipboard officers have a history of recklessness, mismanagement, and willingness to endanger its passengers in its greedy thirst for short term profits. Ask the families of the 32 passengers killed in the sinking of the Costa Concordia.
Last edited by Pilsung on Mon Feb 18, 2013 9:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Stranded on a cruise ship....WWYD

Post by ZombieKillingGeek » Mon Feb 18, 2013 4:48 pm

I have taken celebrity cruises and they are great. They treat you nice and they make sure that everything goes smooth. However, if you decide not to go one one of their guided tours and go on an outside companies tour and you have a problem in a city, you may be SOL. But other than that they are great. I believe they run royal caribbean as well.

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Re: Stranded on a cruise ship....WWYD

Post by Mikeyboy » Mon Feb 18, 2013 5:00 pm

Why anyone would cruise on a Carnival ship is beyond me. People have short memories, this exact same thing happen in 2010 to a carnival ship off the coast of Mexico, in 1999 off of Miami, and 1998 in the Gulf of Mexico.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-21420271" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carnival_Ecstasy" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carnival_Cruise_Lines" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Also last year in Italy the Carnival's Italian subsidary Costa had a ship Costa Concordia that beached and capsized killing 32, and not 6 weeks later its sister ship The Costa Allegra suffered a fire and was stranded 200 miles Southwest of The Seychelles, which was in the range of Somilia pirates. Thankfully that ship got towed out before anything happened.

While bad things to happen on other cruise lines, they really have an issues at Carnival, and you could not pay me to be on one of their ships right now.

What I would do to prep for a cruise

1) bring some food (Cliff Bars/Protein Bars etc) and bottled water.
2) compass
3) lighter
4) Flashlight
5) survival space blankets
6) Dust Mask

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Re: Stranded on a cruise ship....WWYD

Post by ZombieKillingGeek » Mon Feb 18, 2013 5:09 pm

Carnival is cheap. Have you ever priced cruises? A good cruise costs in the 3-5 thousand range for 7 days and carnival cruise can be had for around 1000. Also, under 21 people can drink on cruises... and people under 21 typically don't have thousands of dollars for cruises, so they buy the cheap seats. For them it is more about the alcohol, so they choose carnival.

Besides, a lot of people just like the water, the vessel is not as important. You are still probably safer on a cruise ship than in your car...

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Re: Stranded on a cruise ship....WWYD

Post by Evan the Diplomat » Mon Feb 18, 2013 5:16 pm

Mikeyboy wrote:Why anyone would cruise on a Carnival ship is beyond me. People have short memories, this exact same thing happen in 2010 to a carnival ship off the coast of Mexico, in 1999 off of Miami, and 1998 in the Gulf of Mexico.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-21420271" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carnival_Ecstasy" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carnival_Cruise_Lines" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Also last year in Italy the Carnival's Italian subsidary Costa had a ship Costa Concordia that beached and capsized killing 32, and not 6 weeks later its sister ship The Costa Allegra suffered a fire and was stranded 200 miles Southwest of The Seychelles, which was in the range of Somilia pirates. Thankfully that ship got towed out before anything happened.

While bad things to happen on other cruise lines, they really have an issues at Carnival, and you could not pay me to be on one of their ships right now.

What I would do to prep for a cruise

1) bring some food (Cliff Bars/Protein Bars etc) and bottled water.
2) compass
3) lighter
4) Flashlight
5) survival space blankets
6) Dust Mask
Why a compass? You're not going to be steering the ship.
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Re: Stranded on a cruise ship....WWYD

Post by Cowgirl » Mon Feb 18, 2013 5:22 pm

Dawgboy wrote:Pilsung is right. Carnival corporation is a major sack of shit. Most of their workers are poorly paid and live in substandard conditions onboard already. The practice of a US corporation with an HQ in Miami having all their vessels flagged in a foreign nation so they can avoid US maritime and labor law, and paying their fair of taxes is a travesty.

It used to be that if a ship "for hire" left and returned to a US port, it had to be US flagged. They managed to change that and reap huge profits because of it. Meanwhile, how much did the USCG spend in the rescue efforts of this foreign flagged deathtrap?

Sounds like the US tax payer carries the burden on both ends of this scenario...
I have never been on a cruise, and it is not likely that I ever will go on one, but hearing that a US corporation flags its ships under other countries' flags is, frankly, surprising. I would definitely not take a cruise on such a ship.

If one did go on such a vacation, it sounds like a BOB is important to take along. I am not sure if 72 hours is long enough to plan for. At least this time every one had food, water, and shelter. It would be wise to plan for worse, though.

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Re: Stranded on a cruise ship....WWYD

Post by sheddi » Mon Feb 18, 2013 5:35 pm

Mikeyboy wrote:Why anyone would cruise on a Carnival ship is beyond me. People have short memories, this exact same thing happen in 2010 to a carnival ship off the coast of Mexico, in 1999 off of Miami, and 1998 in the Gulf of Mexico.
I'm not really defending Carnival, but you need to keep in mind that (through their various operating brands) they have roughly 50% of the world's cruise business.

If the whole market was level, safety- and reliability-wise, there would still be a 1:2 chance that any given incident concerned a Carnival cruise ship.

From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carnival_C ... on_%26_plc" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; Carnival's operating brands include:

AIDA Cruises, Germany
Carnival Cruise Lines, United States
Costa Cruises, Italy
Cunard Line, United Kingdom
Holland America Line, United States
Ibero Cruises, Spain
P&O Cruises, United Kingdom
P&O Cruises Australia, Australia
Princess Cruises, United States
Seabourn Cruise Line, United States
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Re: Stranded on a cruise ship....WWYD

Post by majorhavoc » Mon Feb 18, 2013 6:03 pm

Honestly, when you buy into the notion of an all inclusive vacation experience on a massive ship packed with humanity and utterly reliant on fairly complex technology to make it all work, there's not too much you can reasonably do to prepare for contingencies like this.

The single best prep you can bring with you is the right attitude. Overflowing toilets, lack of AC and non-gourmet food undoubtedly sucked, but the ship wasn't sinking, no one was starving and everyone got home safely. The idea of bringing along extra gear to somehow provision yourself to weather this kind of grand inconvenience is sort of silly.

Keep your head, maintain a realistic perspective and adapt to the circumstances.

Extra gear isn't going to get you through it much better than the next passenger; but a positive, can-do attitude will.

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Re: Stranded on a cruise ship....WWYD

Post by Nightwing » Mon Feb 18, 2013 6:46 pm

I've had a few ideas about making my honeymoon easier if a problem occurs. Thank you all, keep them coming. I agree that attitude is everything. My concerns and questions regarding this matter where just to help create a plan with my future wife. If I put the idea in her head now, talk about a plan, & something occurs her attitude will be where it needs to be.
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