A Woman Shot on the Side of the Road - Do You Stop?

Discuss those "what if" or "what would you do" scenarios you've been wondering about.

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Re: A Woman Shot on the Side of the Road - Do You Stop?

Post by HyenaDC » Tue Nov 27, 2012 12:13 am

Depends.. is she hot? (you gotta think about this how spider-man would)
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Re: A Woman Shot on the Side of the Road - Do You Stop?

Post by Kelvar » Tue Nov 27, 2012 3:31 am

HyenaDC wrote:Depends.. is she hot? (you gotta think about this how spider-man would)
Spiderman is a hero--he helps everybody without regard to what they look like. He also probably doesn't post sexist comments on the internet.

HyenaDC, please check your PMs.
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Re: A Woman Shot on the Side of the Road - Do You Stop?

Post by Browning 35 » Tue Nov 27, 2012 8:18 am

It depends.

Did I hear the shot and see her fall?

If that's the case then no, I wouldn't approach her. I'd leave the area and call 911 and describe the scene and location as best I could and try to get her some help that way.

If I'm just driving along and I see some lady that's obviously severely injured by the side of the road and I just basically blundered into the scene without knowing exactly what's going on then yeah, of course I'd stop unless I saw an immediate threat. For all I know she could have been hit by a car or beat up by someone and dumped on the side of the road. I wouldn't know that she'd been shot or know the extent of her injuries until it was too late, by then you're already committed and if the shooter is still there you're already in danger. In that case if I felt like I was in danger I might get her, leave the scene, drive to another location, call for help and additional resources while I was driving to that 2nd location or depending on the nearest hospitals location and the estimated response time I might just quickly bandage her wound to try and prevent her from bleeding out and just drive her to the hospital.

In all likelihood if I just blundered into it I'd just call for help and treat her as best I could on-scene with the first aid kit from my truck.

Some in this thread seem to be suggesting that you automatically know how it played out and unless you were there and saw it that's not the case. In the OP the guy that did nothing was just driving by.
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Re: A Woman Shot on the Side of the Road - Do You Stop?

Post by AK47guy » Tue Nov 27, 2012 10:06 am

I would stop for anyone injured on the road in hope that if that was ever me someone else would do the same. In a PAW situation you'll want to make sure you're not being ambushed by scouting the scene first.

My question is do you think people would stop for a man as willingly as a woman or child?

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Re: Re: A Woman Shot on the Side of the Road - Do You Stop?

Post by Sins » Tue Nov 27, 2012 10:44 am

AK47guy wrote: My question is do you think people would stop for a man as willingly as a woman or child?
Good question. I think no.

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Re: Re: A Woman Shot on the Side of the Road - Do You Stop?

Post by JIM » Wed Nov 28, 2012 11:40 am

Sins wrote:
AK47guy wrote: My question is do you think people would stop for a man as willingly as a woman or child?
Good question. I think no.
Thats the reason muggers use woman, children, wounded, disabled and elderly as bait...
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Re: A Woman Shot on the Side of the Road - Do You Stop?

Post by Meankid » Fri Nov 30, 2012 1:16 pm

If I had loved ones to otherwise consider, or if the shooter was still there, I'd stop. That said, if the shooter is still there, I'd probably try and snap a photo of him/her before calling 911. At least I can try to help nail the guy.

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Re: A Woman Shot on the Side of the Road - Do You Stop?

Post by RoneKiln » Sun Dec 09, 2012 3:36 pm

I do not want to rolemodel for my kids that it's ok to not help people in times of misfortune. There'd have to be a pretty immediate threat to keep me from helping, especially if my kids were with me.
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Re: A Woman Shot on the Side of the Road - Do You Stop?

Post by jamoni » Sun Dec 09, 2012 4:19 pm

RoneKiln wrote:I do not want to rolemodel for my kids that it's ok to not help people in times of misfortune. There'd have to be a pretty immediate threat to keep me from helping, especially if my kids were with me.
I don't want my kids to grow up without a dad, cause it sucks.
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Re: A Woman Shot on the Side of the Road - Do You Stop?

Post by Aikibiker » Sun Dec 09, 2012 5:41 pm

jamoni wrote:
RoneKiln wrote:I do not want to rolemodel for my kids that it's ok to not help people in times of misfortune. There'd have to be a pretty immediate threat to keep me from helping, especially if my kids were with me.
I don't want my kids to grow up without a dad, cause it sucks.

Both arguements have merit. I think the deciding factor could be the age and ability of your children in the hypothetical situation. Is your kid a toddler still in a car seat or a teenager with lots of medical training? Could you trust your child to provide overwatch while you help the victim or vice versa?

My kid will be born in April, for the forseeable futre I will have to drive past people with gunshot wounds and call 911 to help them. 15 years from now though, I hope will have raised my child well enough and imparted enough skill that it would not be the case. In the hypothetical situation presented.
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Re: A Woman Shot on the Side of the Road - Do You Stop?

Post by AmirMortal » Sun Dec 09, 2012 8:44 pm

Impus wrote:
Vicarious_Lee wrote:Who wouldn't stop? Unless there's someone with a gun still at the scene AND I'm unarmed AND I've got my kid with me at the time.

You have to stop.
This.
^^This again.

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Re: A Woman Shot on the Side of the Road - Do You Stop?

Post by crypto » Sun Dec 09, 2012 9:46 pm

AmirMortal wrote:
Impus wrote:
Vicarious_Lee wrote:Who wouldn't stop? Unless there's someone with a gun still at the scene AND I'm unarmed AND I've got my kid with me at the time.

You have to stop.
This.
^^This again.
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Re: A Woman Shot on the Side of the Road - Do You Stop?

Post by elricfate » Sun Dec 09, 2012 9:46 pm

crypto wrote:
AmirMortal wrote:
Impus wrote:
Vicarious_Lee wrote:Who wouldn't stop? Unless there's someone with a gun still at the scene AND I'm unarmed AND I've got my kid with me at the time.

You have to stop.
This.
^^This again.
TIL you have more in common with your ex than I thought.
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Re: A Woman Shot on the Side of the Road - Do You Stop?

Post by Wolfe4086 » Sun Dec 09, 2012 10:25 pm

The closest I have come to from this was when I was driving back to the house after a night at the club. I got off I95 and turned onto the street and there was a woman lying in the middle of the road. I pulled my truck back around and blocked the oncoming traffic that would have hit her popped out and was dialed 911 as I was coming over to hear. Evidently a pimp and another woman beat the snot out this chick and ran her over with a car. I told dispatch what was going on and told her I was on the phone with the police and would go back to my truck for a blanket. Covered her legs so she could see and sat there talking to her until the Paramedics and police arrived. At first they thought I had hit her but I explained the situation and she did as well. So I'd say in the gunshot scenario you stop assess the situation and dial 911 as you are going over to render aid. Use your hands free on the phone as you are doing what you can for the person.
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Re: A Woman Shot on the Side of the Road - Do You Stop?

Post by Yeti » Thu Dec 13, 2012 10:02 am

Depends on location, time of day, and if anyone is with me and who they are.

Location: Honestly if I'm in SE DC my reaction is a lot different than if I'm on a back road out in the Valley.
I'm more likely to stop away from a city than I would be in it unless I was there when it occurred.

Time of Day: 3am wounded is a lot different than a 3pm wounded.
Nothing good happens after midnight, remember that ol' saying.

Whose with me:
If there is someone responsible enough with me, it will increase the likely hood of me stopping regardless of the two prior factors.
By responsible, I mean someone that can watch my six while still talking to 911. While my 12yr is responsible, I don't think he is ready for a real life danger scenario if it's an obivious shooting. Whereas my ex-wife has a vested interest in keeping me alive (I'm worth more that way. :P )

Now that being said, in the majority of cases I will stop when alone. I've done it for car accidents, and honestly you wouldn't be able to tell someone laying on the side of the road is a gunshot victim immediately when passing by. Short of recognizing gun casings around them of course at whatever speed your traveling.

It would most likely go like this:

1. Quick Eval: Body on side of road
2. Slow down, scan area immediately around. Honestly my first reaction in most cases would be look for the wrecked car.
3. Pull over safely (side of road with hazards on) calling 911. Speaker phone is a wonderful thing in this case.
4. Scan for others as you approach the initial victim.
5. Treat and advise 911 operator of victim's state as you discover it. ie. responsive, wounded, bleeding, awake/out cold/unresponsive/incoherant
6. Medical alert tags, most normal folks will forget to check for them. I just have family members it's important for that's why I would look for them. So wrist and neck. Easily checked if your checking for a pulse.
7. Stay calm
8.a. 1) Start the breathing. 2) Stop the bleeding. 3) Protect the wound. 4) Treat for shock. Basic rules for any victim.
8.b. Only if nothing required for 8.a. Attempt to identify the victim, weather it's through talking to them or their id.
9. Continue 8 as required till the paramedics take control of the victim.

Now the important overall thing is steps 5 - 9 is continued comminucation with the 911 operator. Many of them are trained professionals (least ones in my area) with some EMT skills as well. They will talk you through most of it if you pay attention and listen.
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Re: A Woman Shot on the Side of the Road - Do You Stop?

Post by Kelvar » Thu Dec 13, 2012 2:25 pm

jamoni wrote:
RoneKiln wrote:I do not want to rolemodel for my kids that it's ok to not help people in times of misfortune. There'd have to be a pretty immediate threat to keep me from helping, especially if my kids were with me.
I don't want my kids to grow up without a dad, cause it sucks.
I'm with jamoni. That's my priority.
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Re: A Woman Shot on the Side of the Road - Do You Stop?

Post by RoneKiln » Fri Dec 14, 2012 5:47 pm

Kelvar wrote:
jamoni wrote:
RoneKiln wrote:I do not want to rolemodel for my kids that it's ok to not help people in times of misfortune. There'd have to be a pretty immediate threat to keep me from helping, especially if my kids were with me.
I don't want my kids to grow up without a dad, cause it sucks.
I'm with jamoni. That's my priority.
So for those like Kelvar and Jamoni, without evidence of an immediate threat, what guarantees of safety would you want in place before stopping to help a gunshot victim? Or more realistically, a victim obviously bleeding a lot from an unspecified wound (I doubt many of us could differentiate gun, knife, or freak bit of metal flung from a passing truck at high speed, or fell down and impaled self on a sharp branch, while we were driving by). I'm not arguing against wanting be alive to support your family as they grow up. I admitted I'd avoid an immediate threat as well. What are a few possible sureties you might want in place before reaching out to an injured stranger beyand calling 911 for them?


I myself have refused to stop for someone with knife wounds to the gut due to circumstances (just called 911). So I'm not trying to argue "you should ALWAYS stop." Just curious on opinions of a few safe guards you might require before stopping even without immediate threats visible.
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Re: A Woman Shot on the Side of the Road - Do You Stop?

Post by Mr. E. Monkey » Thu Jan 24, 2013 5:35 am

duodecima wrote:On a slightly, I dunno, moral? tangent - I've thought this one thru a bit - thinking it thru more clearly doesn't mean you don't render aid even if it's not guaranteed to be safe. For me it depends on whether my kids are in other safe hands. People with kids are cops and soldiers and firefighters and work on farms and mines and all sorts of other places you can get hurt or killed. Sometimes doing the right thing isn't perfectly safe - in fact it's frequently the opposite of safe. I don't know how to teach my kids to do the right thing if I'm not trying to be an example. If my husband's got the kids, or can get them away, I may feel that, by training and circumstance, I am called to act even if that means taking a risk. Everybody's circumstances and responsibilities and beliefs are different, and I don't expect everybody else to feel the same way, but I'm the one responsible for own my actions.

Back on topic - my brief mention of scene safety when I said I'd stop contained my assumption that my survey of the area while dialing 911 didn't reveal a gunman or anything hinky-looking. I completely agree in principle with Turtlewolf and everybody else about not creating more victims or getting hurt for no good reason.
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Re: A Woman Shot on the Side of the Road - Do You Stop?

Post by Leckie » Thu Jan 24, 2013 10:57 am

Of course! In Norway we have some fancy laws, as some of you may already know.. If you flee/ignore a accident/crime scene with people in medical attention and do not stop, you're F*** If the person dies as a result of the wounds, you're looking at something like felony murder like you have in the states.. just for walking past ..

If I'm ever the second person arriving at a crashsite/crimescene with people in need of medical attention, and the first one just tries to walk away because he's late for work, I would kick his a.. you know the rest..

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Re: A Woman Shot on the Side of the Road - Do You Stop?

Post by Ruddie » Sun Feb 10, 2013 10:06 am

Even if I wasn't a LEO I would stop. I can see the other side of not stopping though. An average, unarmed citizen is thinking the shooter is still around and self preservation.
My first thought is preservation of life. In that case the person who is already injured. Quick assessment of the surroundings and if possible, at least get them in the vehicle to relocate to a safe area.

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Re: A Woman Shot on the Side of the Road - Do You Stop?

Post by toysruskidd » Wed Feb 20, 2013 7:05 am

I would stop and call for an ambulance and a squad car. Whether I got out of my car or not would be based off any gut feeling I may or may not have at the given time.

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Re: A Woman Shot on the Side of the Road - Do You Stop?

Post by Rugger » Wed Feb 20, 2013 7:35 am

As others have said, it depends. Here in far South Texas, very iffy on stopping. LOTS of scams run by illegals to get people to stop on the side of the road, where they then carjack you, at best. The current scam is to have a woman standing along the side of the road by herself, or with a kid, at night and trying to flag you down. The times I've heard about, it's been in places with really tall grass in the bar ditch or a steep embankment. They hide on one side or the other, or both, and wait for you to stop to help. It's sad, but people are very wary of stopping down here now. It's like all of the border highways might as well have the "Don't pick up hitchhikers. Prison Area" sign.
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Re: A Woman Shot on the Side of the Road - Do You Stop?

Post by Browning 35 » Wed Feb 20, 2013 9:33 am

Leckie wrote:Of course! In Norway we have some fancy laws, as some of you may already know.. If you flee/ignore a accident/crime scene with people in medical attention and do not stop, you're F*** If the person dies as a result of the wounds, you're looking at something like felony murder like you have in the states.. just for walking past ..

If I'm ever the second person arriving at a crashsite/crimescene with people in need of medical attention, and the first one just tries to walk away because he's late for work, I would kick his a.. you know the rest..

Where did all the compassion go?
Here for Firefighters/EMS personnel we have a thing called 'Scene Safety'. It basically means that you're not supposed to go blundering into a violent and unsafe scene before it's secured by Law Enforcement.

Off duty FF's/EMS and even some lay-people who have heard of this are generally going to stick with this. We run quite a few more shootings here in the US due to a bunch of factors that I can't go into with violating forum rules, but this is a pretty sensible policy. It's about not getting more people injured or killed. FF'ers and EMS personnel stage right around the corner of the reported shooting and as soon as the cops clear it then we make scene.

It's not about a lack of compassion, it's about not getting shot. If it was a lack of compassion people wouldn't even call 911 and try to get her help or even think about stopping. They'd just be like 'Fuck her, I don't want to get involved or bother with the whole thing'.

It's also all about what you know and when you know it though. Information regarding any situation is time critical. If you don't know that she's been shot then of course you'll help. However getting shot yourself doesn't help her out any, in fact it takes additional resources away from her because the first unit on scene might take you because you might be more seriously injured.
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Re: A Woman Shot on the Side of the Road - Do You Stop?

Post by Finch » Wed Feb 20, 2013 9:40 am

i have only the most basic first aid training. However assuming there is no one better qualified on scene i'd like to think i'd stop.

I have a FAK and a Glock so at least i'd have the tools :)
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