Mature discussion re: illegal activities, politics, religion

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Re: Mature discussion re: illegal activities, politics, religion

Post by GeneralDiscontent » Tue Oct 28, 2008 3:37 pm

maetsack wrote:
GeneralDiscontent wrote:You aren't likely to need to fend off raiders,.... If any of those things had a practical application in preparing for a hurricane,....
So those news stories about the folks in New Orleans defending their business against looters, some of which were armed, were just made up? And those police who illegally seized legally owned weapons from citizens leaving them unarmed against violent criminals didn't happen?
Not trying to derail the thread, but yeah, actually, many of those stories turned out to be exaggerations. Not that it didn't happen, but anyone who had been paying attention on ZS would GTFO of Dodge before a Katrina-level event, or, in the rare cases of those who had to stay (like raptor) would be prepared enough & have enough of a plan than it's unlikely they would ever find themselves in a firefight with looters or in a standoff with LEO's. A big part of ZS is how to deal with situations while staying safe & on the right side of the law.
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Re: Mature discussion re: illegal activities, politics, religion

Post by maetsack » Tue Oct 28, 2008 6:40 pm

GeneralDiscontent wrote:Not trying to derail the thread, but yeah, actually, many of those stories turned out to be exaggerations. Not that it didn't happen, but anyone who had been paying attention on ZS would GTFO of Dodge before a Katrina-level event, or, in the rare cases of those who had to stay (like raptor) would be prepared enough & have enough of a plan than it's unlikely they would ever find themselves in afirefight with looters or in a standoff with LEO's. A big part of ZS is how to deal with situations while staying safe & on the right side of the law.
A little dismissive, don't you think? The article you referenced focused primarily on the violence associated with the Superdome and Convention Centre (not the city) and specified as many as 14 people were killed in those locations.

You couldn't find one article on looting? How about this one - http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9063708/
How about one where the looters are COPS! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tvlPlaX-IDM

Neither of these stories seem like exaggerations to me.

But as you say, hopefully the ones who stayed behind to weather the storm did indeed have a plan, my only point being they wouldn't have been able to discuss the more serious elements of it on this board and maybe we could have helped a little.

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Re: Mature discussion re: illegal activities, politics, religion

Post by GeneralDiscontent » Tue Oct 28, 2008 7:39 pm

maetsack wrote:
A little dismissive, don't you think? The article you referenced focused primarily on the violence associated with the Superdome and Convention Centre (not the city) and specified as many as 14 people were killed in those locations.
No - it says there were 14 bodies recovered from those locations. Biiiiiiig difference. Three people died at the Superdome; two were elderly & in poor health, the other was a suicide. The other bodies were brought to the Superdome/Convention Center or found nearby.
maetsack wrote: You couldn't find one article on looting? How about this one - http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9063708/
How about one where the looters are COPS! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tvlPlaX-IDM

Neither of these stories seem like exaggerations to me.
The first story was written during Katrina - the whole point of the article I linked to was that the media was blowing everything out of proportion during Katrina.

None of the looters in that video looked particularly like the marauding, cannibalistic hordes everyone talks about in threads about "raiders" - notice that nobody tried to gank the $200K news camera. And unless you're a direct descendant of the Walton family, I doubt anyone is going to load up on guns to go defend a Wal-Mart.

Anyways, I'm done with the Katrina discussion, it's been covered here multiple times. My point was, it's far more important to discuss how to avoid these situations, or get out of them as rapidly as possible, than it is to discuss "what's the best gun to mow down crowds of looters" or something like that. As others have said, there are many other easily found forums (a few of them are even zombie-themed, and have many of the same members that you'll find here) if you want to discuss things those types of things.
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Re: Mature discussion re: illegal activities, politics, religion

Post by maetsack » Tue Oct 28, 2008 8:30 pm

GeneralDiscontent wrote:No - it says there were 14 bodies recovered from those locations. Biiiiiiig difference. Three people died at the Superdome; two were elderly & in poor health, the other was a suicide. The other bodies were brought to the Superdome/Convention Center or found nearby.
C'mon - so the rest died of natural causes? If even one of them died of a result of a violence, it makes my point.
GeneralDiscontent wrote:The first story was written during Katrina - the whole point of the article I linked to was that the media was blowing everything out of proportion during Katrina.

None of the looters in that video looked particularly like the marauding, cannibalistic hordes everyone talks about in threads about "raiders" - notice that nobody tried to gank the $200K news camera. And unless you're a direct descendant of the Walton family, I doubt anyone is going to load up on guns to go defend a Wal-Mart.
And the fact that the looters in the video weren't violent means there was no violent crime during the event? The article I found mentioned that the cops were asking for civilian guns because they "desperately needed the firepower" and the driver of a bus was forced to turn over his vehicle by "thugs". How do you suppose they convinced him to do that?

Tell you what, I'll concede that things weren't as bad as made out by the news, if you concede that there is at least some evidence that things were not quite as rosy as you imagine.

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Re: Mature discussion re: illegal activities, politics, religion

Post by GeneralDiscontent » Tue Oct 28, 2008 8:42 pm

maetsack wrote:
Tell you what, I'll concede that things weren't as bad as made out by the news, if you concede that there is at least some evidence that things were not quite as rosy as you imagine.
Oh, absolutely - I never meant to imply things were rosy. There was definitely looting, there were definitely criminals taking advantage of a crisis, and there was definitely police acting inappropriately. It's just that people act like there were roving bands of post-apocalyptic mutants roaming the streets, throwing grenades, raping children and killing people for meat, and that just wasn't the case. Most of the situations were desperate people looking for supplies, and most of those situations could have been easily avoided with even a modest amount of preperation - which is why we're here.
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Re: Mature discussion re: illegal activities, politics, religion

Post by mpi » Tue Oct 28, 2008 8:48 pm

"people act like there were roving bands of post-apocalyptic mutants roaming the streets, throwing grenades, raping children and killing people for meat"

so right, i believe that was BEFORE Katrina
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Re: Mature discussion re: illegal activities, politics, religion

Post by Y.T. » Wed Oct 29, 2008 1:23 pm

crypto wrote:Seriously people, the internet is a big place, and there's a lot of places you can go to scratch that itch for talking about pipe bombs, liberal evils, and hajis possessed by the devil. Hell, you can even go to ZS Chat and do it. I'll tell you what I really think.


This is a corner of civility here on the forums. I like it. I will protect it.
I think that pretty much covers it. :) No one place can be everything you need, allowing every topic you want to discuss, in the environment you want. The net is HUGE. There's no lack of places to discuss religion, politics, specific activities. Go find one.

Also, many forums have a rule against discussing illegal activities, for the primary reason of protecting those who run the forum against legal complications. Do we really need to put all the ZS mods and directors at risk of being charged with inciting crime or being an accomplice in it just so we can occasionally talk about B&E or pipe bombs? Considering the number of existing sources online that do provide that info, I think the answer is no.

As far as politics and religion: no one will ever agree so these discussions end up circular, pointless, vitriolic and retarded. There's enough of that elsewhere. I see no need to bring it here.
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Re: Mature discussion re: illegal activities, politics, religion

Post by bonanacrom » Wed Oct 29, 2008 3:24 pm

No one likes to rant or argue as much as I do but the difference is I never take anything seriously. You cant change someone belief whether its politics or religion so any comment against there thinking is an attack on there belief whether it was meant or not. Plus there is just enough of both topics on the forum as it is and they get stoped just before it gets to bad.
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Re: Mature discussion re: illegal activities, politics, religion

Post by Lucretius » Thu Oct 30, 2008 2:37 pm

crypto wrote:
midgetyaz wrote: You ever wonder why most survival forums are dominated by right-wing christians? Opposing voices get drowned out in the groupthink generated by non-stop politicking and proselytizing. ZS is almost unique in that we have all kinds of pagan tattooed freaks roaming the halls, and they contribute stuff to the conversation that you /will not get on any other forum/.
Ooooh. So that's why I like it here! :D Well put!
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Re: Mature discussion re: illegal activities, politics, religion

Post by Lucretius » Thu Oct 30, 2008 3:06 pm

Y.T. wrote: As far as politics and religion: no one will ever agree
...unless they agree from the very beginning and keep on agreeing ad nauseum... which is, of course, just as bad. :?
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Re: Mature discussion re: illegal activities, politics, religion

Post by midgetyaz » Thu Oct 30, 2008 5:29 pm

Lucretius wrote:
crypto wrote:
midgetyaz wrote: You ever wonder why most survival forums are dominated by right-wing christians? Opposing voices get drowned out in the groupthink generated by non-stop politicking and proselytizing. ZS is almost unique in that we have all kinds of pagan tattooed freaks roaming the halls, and they contribute stuff to the conversation that you /will not get on any other forum/.
Ooooh. So that's why I like it here! :D Well put!
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Re: Mature discussion re: illegal activities, politics, religion

Post by Juggernaut » Thu Oct 30, 2008 5:32 pm

Ain't it great we DON'T HAVE to agree on religion or anything and it's totally O.K.!!!.... :D

But, I ain't gonna pretend that I hang out on a Zombie board for "Mature" discussion.....

I'm not saying there that I have not learned allot from this place.... fact is, I have....

I ain't gonna act like a goofball in one thread and then stare down my nose at someone in another....

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Re: Mature discussion re: illegal activities, politics, religion

Post by Y.T. » Thu Oct 30, 2008 5:52 pm

just a thought...
Juggernaut wrote:All that being said, is there no room for "Spiritual Preparation" for disaster?
Almost seems critical for some to a point.

It's true that one's mental/emotional state is important, but I believe that's covered in discussions of keeping up morale. :) And actually your question kinda goes to proving the point against religious discussions: you speak of "spiritual preparation", someone else might call it "religious preparation", someone else might just call it "mental preparation". What's the right term? What's the right answer? There is none.

I mean, it's not like there's singular advice that can be applied to everyone. I think it's enough to say mental state/emotional state/morale is important when planning and keep the discussion on that broad level. One person may say that they attend to those issues by reading the bible. That's their suggestion and others can take it or leave it. But beyond that what is there really to discuss further on that suggestion? How one religion will serve that purpose better than another? If the person is right or wrong to do so? No. It's too individualistic and such a discussion would be useless.

As I understand it anyone can currently discuss what they do individually to keep up their mental state, keep them centered, whatever language you want to use. That's not crossing the rules as long as it's in the context of survivalism and not presented as "my way is right". So we don't really need a category for it. However, once people get into the specifics of individual religious/spiritual beliefs, comparing or defending them, we get into stupid no-win territory that doesn't provide any insight or info.
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Re: Mature discussion re: illegal activities, politics, religion

Post by Juggernaut » Thu Oct 30, 2008 6:02 pm

Point taken... BUT, approach it from the mindset of say a Military Chaplin.....
They need to be ready to assist Christian, Jew, Muslim, Pagan or follower of the flying spaghetti monster.

I sure ain't trying to say my way or the highway...
If I'm fighting by YOUR side... If I have respect for you, I will want to help you complete your journey.. whatever that may be.

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Re: Mature discussion re: illegal activities, politics, religion

Post by Y.T. » Thu Oct 30, 2008 6:28 pm

Juggernaut wrote:Point taken... BUT, approach it from the mindset of say a Military Chaplin.....
They need to be ready to assist Christian, Jew, Muslim, Pagan or follower of the flying spaghetti monster.

I sure ain't trying to say my way or the highway...
If I'm fighting by YOUR side... If I have respect for you, I will want to help you complete your journey.. whatever that may be.
ah, so you're saying you'd like to be able to discuss specifics of religious/spiritual beliefs to help fellow members in their own pursuit? but wouldn't another venue be better suited for learning about different religions/practices so discussions could be more indepth?

Or perhaps that could be accomplished by simply having a thread on how to help others keep up morale in various situations. Or maybe how to deal with conflicting beliefs when confined with different people during a crisis. Or maybe a thread on universal coping mechanisms for a community during a crisis (for example, candlelight vigils seem to be popular and non-denominational).

I think that a thread (or several) on how to help those around you on a mental/emotional level, as you've suggested, is a great idea. We're often discussing tactical or practical things -- weapons, shelter, food -- and often with a "take care of your own first" attitude which is sometimes a necessity. It might be a nice balance to have some thoughts on how to deal with the various mental/emotional states your bugout mates may have, as well as others around you. As well as how to help prevent meltdowns or depression that render someone useless. But I think that specifics of what someone believes and what they need for those beliefs is best deal with directly with those you'll be bugging with.
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Re: Mature discussion re: illegal activities, politics, religion

Post by JibbaJabba » Thu Oct 30, 2008 11:23 pm

flying spaghetti monster.
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Re: Mature discussion re: illegal activities, politics, religion

Post by Squirrley » Fri Oct 31, 2008 12:04 am

The one thing I really like about the mods and such here is that they all have brains, and understand the letter of the rules vs the intent. They come in and stop a discussion when its obvious that there's nowhere besides a shit storm that it could go, but threads with similar content, and that have potential they don't care about. If someone wanted to start a thread about morale, and how religion can be a part of that, I don't think anyone would have a problem with that. If someone started a thread saying that [insert religious flavor here] is the only way to have good morale, and that we're all going to hell cause we don't follow it, that would get shut down pretty quick.

Its all about fostering good discussion here, I mean look up at the top of this page.
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Re: Mature discussion re: illegal activities, politics, religion

Post by kyle » Sat Nov 01, 2008 12:59 pm

Good question from the original poster.

This forum has been around for 5 years now. It's always changing and the owners are always open for new suggests for running this place.

I think Crypto and others explained our reasoning for our rules quite well. MPI also pointed out the lack a maturity in this forum which is partially true. This is partially a zombie entertainment forum on the internet. The biggest cause of the problems is due to the larger range of demographic draw from all "walks of life" in here which will inevitably clash when certain topics are brought up.

Don't tell anyone this but I personally have a "squeaky wheel" policy in regard to moderating. As long as I'm not being bothered and no one is complaining then I probably won't notice. Not that I'm trying to discourage anyone from warning a mod about a particular problem or using the warning feature. I actually really appreciate that this community polices itself. The moderators are obviously not omniscient so we rely on you guys.

Unfortunately, our lack of being omniscient has given us problems in the past from people who claim we are not moderating fairly because we don't moderate every single case of rule breaking on the forum. Because of this, I'm working on a new device that will be implanted into the brains of all the moderators that will link them directly to the ZS forum database so they will have direct access to all information instantaneously.

This is why I haven't been around lately. I've been in the lab most of the time working on science. With great science comes great sacrifice. We did have a few casualties with initial brain-chip installation and testing. This is why you don't see mugwug or will on here much anymore. They were sacrifices for the common good. Let's have a moment of silence.

We will be trying the newest version of the ZS FOC (Forum Omniscientcy Chip) on Jamoni and Doctor Jest next week.

Gunny and nfa, I'll need you two to come into the lab for your physical the first week of December.

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Re: Mature discussion re: illegal activities, politics, religion

Post by Hawk » Sun Nov 02, 2008 12:06 pm

In regard to the OP question; I assume you've read through this entire thread. See how many times your question was answered in the same words, and how many times your question was misunderstood and replied to incorrectly? There's little to no inflection on the internet. You can say one thing and it's taken as something completely different by each person who reads it. In keeping with the professionalism that Zombie Squad strives for in real life, the website needs to be kept clean of political circle jerks, and religious flame-loops that stem from a combination of misunderstandings, misinterpretations, and keyboard-tough-guy syndrome. It's not that we have thin skin, it's not that we knee-jerk, it's just that there is no need for the discussion of these topics, as they would be more of a detriment than a benefit.
kyle wrote:Unfortunately, our lack of being omniscient has given us problems in the past from people who claim we are not moderating fairly because we don't moderate every single case of rule breaking on the forum. Because of this, I'm working on a new device that will be implanted into the brains of all the moderators that will link them directly to the ZS forum database so they will have direct access to all information instantaneously.
So that's what you were talking about last weekend, ranting about some google phone, and streaming ZS....
I would think you'd use your powers for greater good, like curing hangovers.
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Re: Mature discussion re: illegal activities, politics, religion

Post by maetsack » Thu Nov 06, 2008 2:33 pm

Hawk wrote:See how many times your question was answered in the same words, and how many times your question was misunderstood and replied to incorrectly?
You nailed that one one the head.
Hawk wrote:it's just that there is no need for the discussion of these topics, as they would be more of a detriment than a benefit.
That's where I disagree. I think there is a need to share information on certain topics and that would be beneficial. It is specific comments from specific assholes that make it detrimental, not the subject. It appears that some of the responses in this discussion are no exception.

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Re: Mature discussion re: illegal activities, politics, religion

Post by jamoni » Thu Nov 06, 2008 4:03 pm

maetsack wrote:That's where I disagree. I think there is a need to share information on certain topics and that would be beneficial.
I agree, but this is not the place for that discussion. Again, you are free to start and run a forum for the discussion of these things.
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Re: Mature discussion re: illegal activities, politics, religion

Post by Murf » Thu Nov 06, 2008 4:12 pm

kyle wrote:This is why I haven't been around lately. I've been in the lab most of the time working on science. With great science comes great sacrifice. We did have a few casualties with initial brain-chip installation and testing. This is why you don't see mugwug or will on here much anymore. They were sacrifices for the common good. Let's have a moment of silence.

We will be trying the newest version of the ZS FOC (Forum Omniscientcy Chip) on Jamoni and Doctor Jest next week.

Gunny and nfa, I'll need you two to come into the lab for your physical the first week of December.

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Re: Mature discussion re: illegal activities, politics, religion

Post by andygates » Thu Nov 06, 2008 4:21 pm

Juggernaut wrote:Ain't it great we DON'T HAVE to agree on religion or anything and it's totally O.K.!!!.... :D
Word, Juggernaut, word.
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Re: Mature discussion re: illegal activities, politics, religion

Post by Hawk » Thu Nov 06, 2008 5:58 pm

Hawk wrote:it's just that there is no need for the discussion of these topics here, as they would be more of a detriment than a benefit.
Edited for clarity.
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