Mature discussion re: illegal activities, politics, religion

If you have a question for members of the Zombie Squad bring it over here.

If this is a question specifically for an official authorized representative of Zombie Squad, Inc. your best bet will be to e-mail service@zombiehunters.org

Moderator: ZS Global Moderators

maetsack
* * *
Posts: 487
Joined: Tue Nov 28, 2006 8:45 am
Location: Yeah, like I would tell you :-)

Mature discussion re: illegal activities, politics, religion

Post by maetsack » Thu Oct 23, 2008 7:46 am

Something has been bothering me for a while and it’s the knee-jerk reaction to even the hint of some action that is currently illegal or some other banned topic. I find myself wondering why we are so hyper-sensitive to these discussions especially when in most cases it is clear we are talking about hypothetical scenarios. When did we become so politically correct that we can’t even talk hypothetically about something before we lock down the thread and ban the user?

Now, don’t get me wrong. I’m not suggesting that someone stating their plan is to rape and pillage and that we should be encouraging that kind of BS. I’m talking more about “if this hypothetically happens, then I’d have to do this”. Let’s be realistic, in a PAW situation there isn’t anyone (including LEOs) who isn’t going to perform illegal acts and we all know it. Is everyone going to still pay their taxes? Call it scavenging if you want, it’s still stealing because someone else (dead or living) owns it that is not you. Trapping animals is illegal almost everywhere by unlicensed trappers, yet for many of us will set snares to feed our families. You get my point.

I also understand that there is a desire to control stupidity, like flaming or hate and that is commendable. But the response has become so knee-jerk it seems like it is applied when legitimate discussions start to wander in the general direction of illegal actions with no hint of stupidity. I know this has been discussed before and I’m not against the rules per say. What I am raising here is a concern with the reflex application of them. I even notice that non-moderators are warning of ban, almost like they have been conditioned to that response.

I know this has been raised before and the “living room” explanation has come up and I actually think it’s a great way of explaining this. However, I don’t think the explanation was run to its logical end state. Yes, it is a living room to which many people have been invited into and yes, the owners of the living room have a right to enforce the rules they see fit, but how realistic is it that if a guest in your living room started a mature conversation about religion or politics that you would immediately shut down the conversation? Take this thread for example. Is someone considering cutting this off because I am raising questions about the rules or how they are applied? Is someone considering banning me for asking these questions? Is there someone who didn’t even get past the first paragraph before considering this?

I guess my point is I’m all for moderating the conversations and applying common sense rules to them and certainly for telling people who are using the forum to rant, promote hate or some other BS to get lost, but do we really want to stifle all mature discussions like we are characters in an Orwellian novel. Please give it some thought.

User avatar
BEar667
* * * * *
Posts: 1005
Joined: Sat Jan 26, 2008 7:00 pm
Favorite Zombie Movies: Pick one
Location: Norwalk, Iowa
Contact:

Re: Mature discussion re: illegal activities, politics, religion

Post by BEar667 » Thu Oct 23, 2008 8:43 am

Deleted 'cuz I've had my say
Last edited by BEar667 on Thu Oct 23, 2008 12:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
KØMRD General Class

NRA MEMBER

Parate Omnes Casus!

User avatar
midgetyaz
* * * * *
Posts: 2799
Joined: Thu Apr 21, 2005 11:22 pm

Re: Mature discussion re: illegal activities, politics, religion

Post by midgetyaz » Thu Oct 23, 2008 8:48 am

maetsack wrote:Something has been bothering me for a while and it’s the knee-jerk reaction to even the hint of some action that is currently illegal or some other banned topic.
Oh, I know the answer! Because this started out as a small group and grew, ZS finds more and more people with more and more personality types. When a mod stops by a thread and says, "yeah, don't do this," you end up with at least one person who wants to challenge him. Coming down with a hammer is the quickest and cleanest way of stopping this. And the rest of us don't have to deal with inevitable tantrum and subsequent banning.

ZS is working in the real world with public organizations to better promote the idea that we should all be prepared, and as much as many people don't like it, the website (and forum) are almost a business card. So, as ZS becomes more "professional," it's going to want to stay away from posts like "Woo Hoo! When the PAW comes, I making pipe bombs and looting! Here's how to make a pipe bomb, kids!" Can you blame them?

And you may be mature enough to handle a conversation on any number of topics, but your whining about not being able to when you have seen people repeatedly warned about it, makes me question that. I mean really, I've seen a number of posts just like this one. Did you even think about searching for this topic?

What's wrong with PM? You want to discuss something you read, find someone with whom you want to talk about it or make your own forum.

And to repeat what has been repeated ad nauseum, there are plenty of places to talk about politics and how do do illegal activities. The board has spoken about this, and there's nothing you can do. You, like me, are just a guest. Try TOM. It's got a politics thread.
bonanacrom wrote:That made no sense at all. I think it was meant to make me dumber, and it worked.

User avatar
donjulio
* * * * *
Posts: 2154
Joined: Sat May 17, 2008 11:52 pm
Location: Springfield, MO
Contact:

Re: Mature discussion re: illegal activities, politics, religion

Post by donjulio » Thu Oct 23, 2008 8:50 am

BEar667 wrote:I agree 100%. If a MATURE conversation is started about politics/religion, and there is no flaming, why does it get shut down in a matter of heartbeats?
In my experience from other forums, it gets shut down because it NEVER remains a mature conversation for long. These are topics that people feel very strongly about, and discussions of this type would bring out the worst in some of us.
Image

User avatar
Gingersam
* * *
Posts: 493
Joined: Tue May 20, 2008 12:02 pm
Location: The north

Re: Mature discussion re: illegal activities, politics, religion

Post by Gingersam » Thu Oct 23, 2008 8:52 am

Sniff Sniff
Smells like ban.

I agree with you 100%. Debates spark thought and should always be encouraged.

User avatar
phil_in_cs
ZS Member
ZS Member
Posts: 11424
Joined: Fri Dec 28, 2007 4:18 pm
Location: central tx

Re: Mature discussion re: illegal activities, politics, religion

Post by phil_in_cs » Thu Oct 23, 2008 8:58 am

There are thousands of websites where all sorts of things are discussed. On sites where those get discussed, people get really pissy and angry, and there's lots of bad blood that bleeds from discussion of religion into discussions of camping stoves.

This site is owned by someone(s), and they set the rules. If you go to a house that someone owns, and want to discuss things they don't want to discuss, they will make you leave. I don't see why a web site should be different.
Don't confuse a belligerent and aggressive attitude with the strength, training, and conditioning needed to prevail in a fight. How do you know you have the Will To Win, if you don't even have the will to train?

User avatar
Juggernaut
* * *
Posts: 442
Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2008 6:29 pm
Location: Look outside your window........
Contact:

Re: Mature discussion re: illegal activities, politics, religion

Post by Juggernaut » Thu Oct 23, 2008 9:05 am

Your candidate is lame and My God can beat up your god! :mrgreen:




:wink:

We have a chat room?..... sweet!

User avatar
donjulio
* * * * *
Posts: 2154
Joined: Sat May 17, 2008 11:52 pm
Location: Springfield, MO
Contact:

Re: Mature discussion re: illegal activities, politics, religion

Post by donjulio » Thu Oct 23, 2008 9:12 am

Juggernaut wrote:Your candidate is lame and My God can beat up your god! :mrgreen:
QOTD'd.... :lol:
Image

User avatar
Jamie
ZS Member
ZS Member
Posts: 9345
Joined: Sun Dec 03, 2006 8:06 pm
Favorite Zombie Movies: DOTD04, Special Dead, Shaun of the Dead, 28 ______ Later
Location: Adirondacks, NY
Contact:

Re: Mature discussion re: illegal activities, politics, religion

Post by Jamie » Thu Oct 23, 2008 9:16 am

phil_in_cs wrote:There are thousands of websites where all sorts of things are discussed.
I like this reason...I like that this forum generally stays on the stated topic(s) of the organization, and stays away from topics that make lots of other forums whine/flame/spam festivals...

There are a gazillion forums for discussing politics, prophets, and pipe-bombs, but this isn't one of them...if you really want to talk about that stuff with me or some other member of ZS, you could get in touch via email or PM or chat...or through one of those other forums...

These are just my thoughts on the matter, BTW, but they're one reason that I've stuck with ZS and not gone back to other similar forums with different rules...the signal to noise ratio on ZS is better than it is on the other forums...

Jamie
"I don't want to survive. I want to live. " - Captain B. McCrea

Image
My Blog and website, dealing largely with my writing projects...I've published two novels, "Here Be Monsters" and "Caretakers", along with a pair of eBooks, "Mickey Slips" and "Bound for Home"...check them out!

User avatar
crypto
ZS Donor
ZS Donor
Posts: 16637
Joined: Sun Oct 08, 2006 7:37 pm
Location: City of Saint Louis

Re: Mature discussion re: illegal activities, politics, religion

Post by crypto » Thu Oct 23, 2008 9:19 am

midgetyaz wrote:
ZS is working in the real world with public organizations to better promote the idea that we should all be prepared, and as much as many people don't like it, the website (and forum) are almost a business card. So, as ZS becomes more "professional," it's going to want to stay away from posts like "Woo Hoo! When the PAW comes, I making pipe bombs and looting! Here's how to make a pipe bomb, kids!" Can you blame them?
This is the correct answer. ZS is a registered non-profit corporation, and we will probably be a 501(c)(3) charity someday. As it stands, we come off crazy enough just in the premise of our organization.

When we convince people that we're *not* crazy, and ask them to volunteer their time or their money for the cause, we don't need them using google to learn that we talk about killing cops or national guardsmen, or make pipe-bombs, or grind sears off to make FA weapons.

Politics and religion is just a slippery slope. If it gets allowed at all, snarky shit starts creeping into people's signature lines, then off-handed comments get made and not called out as bullshit, and then the forum degenerates into the rest of the internet. Civil discussions about politics and religion are few and far between. They inevitably collapse into bickering and name-calling and divisiveness. They turn people off. You ever wonder why most survival forums are dominated by right-wing christians? Opposing voices get drowned out in the groupthink generated by non-stop politicking and proselytizing. ZS is almost unique in that we have all kinds of pagan tattooed freaks roaming the halls, and they contribute stuff to the conversation that you /will not get on any other forum/.

Seriously people, the internet is a big place, and there's a lot of places you can go to scratch that itch for talking about pipe bombs, liberal evils, and hajis possessed by the devil. Hell, you can even go to ZS Chat and do it. I'll tell you what I really think.


This is a corner of civility here on the forums. I like it. I will protect it.
MF'N TEAM LEADER

"Some people think that the best way to stop the leopard is to cut the horns off the gazelle. This, my friends, is insane."

Image
Image

User avatar
Jamie
ZS Member
ZS Member
Posts: 9345
Joined: Sun Dec 03, 2006 8:06 pm
Favorite Zombie Movies: DOTD04, Special Dead, Shaun of the Dead, 28 ______ Later
Location: Adirondacks, NY
Contact:

Re: Mature discussion re: illegal activities, politics, religion

Post by Jamie » Thu Oct 23, 2008 9:21 am

ps - locked and buried and banned...











ooops, no I just mean moved to the right forum... :wink:

Jamie
"I don't want to survive. I want to live. " - Captain B. McCrea

Image
My Blog and website, dealing largely with my writing projects...I've published two novels, "Here Be Monsters" and "Caretakers", along with a pair of eBooks, "Mickey Slips" and "Bound for Home"...check them out!

JibbaJabba
BANNED
Posts: 2317
Joined: Wed Jun 11, 2008 9:11 pm
Favorite Zombie Movies: Shaun of the Dead, 28 Days/Weeks Later
Location: Fort Hood, Texas

Re: Mature discussion re: illegal activities, politics, religion

Post by JibbaJabba » Thu Oct 23, 2008 9:57 am

OP: tl;dr. Don't like it? No one's forcing you to use this specific forum.

I was going to type out a much more thought-out and verbose reply but I realized that it would be dignifying a stupid complaint.
PlE or GTFO! Image
bonanacrom wrote:I found that if your 6 feet tall and weigh 260 pounds and answer the door naked with a big shit eating grin on your face you get to control the conversation right from the beginning.

User avatar
crypto
ZS Donor
ZS Donor
Posts: 16637
Joined: Sun Oct 08, 2006 7:37 pm
Location: City of Saint Louis

Re: Mature discussion re: illegal activities, politics, religion

Post by crypto » Thu Oct 23, 2008 10:02 am

JibbaJabba wrote:OP: tl;dr. Don't like it? No one's forcing you to use this specific forum.

I was going to type out a much more thought-out and verbose reply but I realized that it would be dignifying a stupid complaint.

Eh, I dont think it's a stupid complaint. We're different here than most other internet forums with the way we're moderated. Some people find it a pleasant respite from constant political bickering, while it really chaps other people's asses that they cant spout their opinion about EVERYTHING whenever they want.

It's definitely harder to moderate a board like this than to just let people do whatever they want, but our people seem to be attracted to the ZS forum in ways that they aren't attracted to other ones.

Anyway, that's the way it is. We do what we do for a reason.
MF'N TEAM LEADER

"Some people think that the best way to stop the leopard is to cut the horns off the gazelle. This, my friends, is insane."

Image
Image

JibbaJabba
BANNED
Posts: 2317
Joined: Wed Jun 11, 2008 9:11 pm
Favorite Zombie Movies: Shaun of the Dead, 28 Days/Weeks Later
Location: Fort Hood, Texas

Re: Mature discussion re: illegal activities, politics, religion

Post by JibbaJabba » Thu Oct 23, 2008 10:03 am

We do what we do for a reason.
Bears repeating.
PlE or GTFO! Image
bonanacrom wrote:I found that if your 6 feet tall and weigh 260 pounds and answer the door naked with a big shit eating grin on your face you get to control the conversation right from the beginning.

User avatar
Jamie
ZS Member
ZS Member
Posts: 9345
Joined: Sun Dec 03, 2006 8:06 pm
Favorite Zombie Movies: DOTD04, Special Dead, Shaun of the Dead, 28 ______ Later
Location: Adirondacks, NY
Contact:

Re: Mature discussion re: illegal activities, politics, religion

Post by Jamie » Thu Oct 23, 2008 10:06 am

JibbaJabba wrote:
We do what we do for a reason.
Bears repeating.
Image
"I don't want to survive. I want to live. " - Captain B. McCrea

Image
My Blog and website, dealing largely with my writing projects...I've published two novels, "Here Be Monsters" and "Caretakers", along with a pair of eBooks, "Mickey Slips" and "Bound for Home"...check them out!

JibbaJabba
BANNED
Posts: 2317
Joined: Wed Jun 11, 2008 9:11 pm
Favorite Zombie Movies: Shaun of the Dead, 28 Days/Weeks Later
Location: Fort Hood, Texas

Re: Mature discussion re: illegal activities, politics, religion

Post by JibbaJabba » Thu Oct 23, 2008 10:07 am

Now that's uncanny.

5 seconds in MSPaint, or did you have that one sitting around just BEGGING to be unleashed on us? :lol:
PlE or GTFO! Image
bonanacrom wrote:I found that if your 6 feet tall and weigh 260 pounds and answer the door naked with a big shit eating grin on your face you get to control the conversation right from the beginning.

User avatar
MosinMe
* * * * *
Posts: 1326
Joined: Fri Feb 01, 2008 11:41 pm
Location: Central Florida.

Re: Mature discussion re: illegal activities, politics, religion

Post by MosinMe » Thu Oct 23, 2008 10:16 am

nfa wrote:
JibbaJabba wrote:
We do what we do for a reason.
Bears repeating.
Image
Lmao. :lol:
Image
Jeriah wrote: Chinese jungle boots will rip, rot, shred, and fall apart like your cock after a month in a Thai brothel.
The 4x4 Thread.

Doctor_Zombie
ZS Member
ZS Member
Posts: 999
Joined: Fri Aug 18, 2006 9:05 pm
Location: Northeast Ohio
Contact:

Re: Mature discussion re: illegal activities, politics, religion

Post by Doctor_Zombie » Thu Oct 23, 2008 11:23 am

crypto wrote: This is the correct answer. ZS is a registered non-profit corporation, and we will probably be a 501(c)(3) charity someday. As it stands, we come off crazy enough just in the premise of our organization.

When we convince people that we're *not* crazy, and ask them to volunteer their time or their money for the cause, we don't need them using google to learn that we talk about killing cops or national guardsmen, or make pipe-bombs, or grind sears off to make FA weapons.

Politics and religion is just a slippery slope. If it gets allowed at all, snarky shit starts creeping into people's signature lines, then off-handed comments get made and not called out as bullshit, and then the forum degenerates into the rest of the internet. Civil discussions about politics and religion are few and far between. They inevitably collapse into bickering and name-calling and divisiveness. They turn people off. You ever wonder why most survival forums are dominated by right-wing christians? Opposing voices get drowned out in the groupthink generated by non-stop politicking and proselytizing. ZS is almost unique in that we have all kinds of pagan tattooed freaks roaming the halls, and they contribute stuff to the conversation that you /will not get on any other forum/.

Seriously people, the internet is a big place, and there's a lot of places you can go to scratch that itch for talking about pipe bombs, liberal evils, and hajis possessed by the devil. Hell, you can even go to ZS Chat and do it. I'll tell you what I really think.


This is a corner of civility here on the forums. I like it. I will protect it.
Totally off topic, I know... but I've decided that I'm starting my own religion.

I'm calling it Crypto's Cult of Common Sense.

Seriously, Crypto -- everytime I read something from you it's concise, to the point, and makes an assload of sense. And it's also usually snarky enough to make me laugh. Keep up the great work, bro!

On topic - I'm one of those pagan tattooed freaks roaming the halls, and I love that ZS is so strict on the no politics/no religion/ no illegal talk schtick. My political and religious beliefs are not compatible with most weapons or survival sites. What I'm saying is that ZS's policies make EVERYONE feel welcome. And that's way cool.

It's like being with family; they may not agree with you or your beliefs, but they're still family. Waitaminute! Thats it! We're a big happy, emotionally retarded, dysfunctional family!

Just remember, if Uncle Gundown asks you to sit on his lap... DON'T DO IT!
Doctor_Zombie was formerly Doctor Z.! I fracking changed it.

BUY MY BOOKS! NOW AVAILABLE ON KINDLE!
Read my blog!!
GunDown wrote: BRUCE CAMPBELL IS A GOD.... HE IS THE ONE TRUE LORD OF FILM. HIS HOLY TRINITY RULES ABOVE US ALL! AS RAMI STANDS TO HIS RIGHT AND ROMERO TO HIS LEFT HIS WILL IS INFORCED BY THE ANGEL OF VENGENCE KEVIN MOTHERFUCKING SMITH!

User avatar
bethanyb
ZS Member
ZS Member
Posts: 682
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2008 2:36 am
Location: St. Louis, MO

Re: Mature discussion re: illegal activities, politics, religion

Post by bethanyb » Thu Oct 23, 2008 11:47 am

maetsack:
I agree with you that political and hypothetical discussions can be a mature part of our group conversations. I agree with ZS for restricting that based on their stance in the community and what they are trying to do for people. If you want a prepartion type forum that includes religous and political discussions why not hop on over to TFB's new forum and see how you like it. I think we have all managed to stay pretty mature and on topic but theomegaman.org doesn't encourage members to have the community involvement that ZS does.
Doctor Z. wrote:Totally off topic, I know... but I've decided that I'm starting my own religion.

I'm calling it Crypto's Cult of Common Sense.

Seriously, Crypto -- everytime I read something from you it's concise, to the point, and makes an assload of sense. And it's also usually snarky enough to make me laugh. Keep up the great work, bro!
Do not feed the animals.
Do not lean over the fence.
Do not feed Crypto's ego.

Three simple rules, why must you break them? :lol:
I survived Zombie Con 2008! Filtered Manbath - A little bit of shame in every sip.
I survived Zombie Con 2009! There's is more than one Highway M off of Missouri Hwy 8.
I survived Zombie Con 2010! I jumped, skipped and flipped.
I barely survived Zombie Con 2011! 5 days in the hospital, 3 in the ICU

User avatar
BethDeath
* * * * *
Posts: 4771
Joined: Sun Jul 16, 2006 7:41 am
Location: Berks County PA

Re: Mature discussion re: illegal activities, politics, religion

Post by BethDeath » Thu Oct 23, 2008 12:31 pm

What about rule #4.

NEVER and I mean NEVER look at the junk in the middle pouch!

User avatar
mpi
* * * * *
Posts: 1623
Joined: Thu Apr 20, 2006 12:20 am
Location: pittsburgh pa

Re: Mature discussion re: illegal activities, politics, religion

Post by mpi » Thu Oct 23, 2008 12:39 pm

i would have to say that it's because maturity is in short supply around here.
Pennsylvania Firearm Owner's Association -
http://www.pafoa.org" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

A veteran is someone who, at one point, wrote a blank check made payable to 'The United States of America ' for an amount of 'up to and including their life.' That is Honor, and there are way too many people in this country who no longer understand it.'
LtCol George Goodson, USMC (Ret)

AmirMortal
* * * * *
Posts: 2485
Joined: Mon Jun 09, 2008 2:59 am
Favorite Zombie Movies: ALL! 28 days later...
Location: The Gunshine State

Re: Mature discussion re: illegal activities, politics, religion

Post by AmirMortal » Thu Oct 23, 2008 12:43 pm

OP, I too had issue with this policy when I first started hanging around. After being chastised a couple of times, I realized that while it's nice to have a venue for venting, this is not necessarily the place for that. I then began, over time, to take a certain amount of comfort in not having to constantly defend my non-conformist views on Religilics (poligion?). I know for a fact that there are many people both here and on other forums who don't share the same background or see things from the same perspective I do; but that doesn't get in the way of everything else this forum has to offer.

User avatar
phil_in_cs
ZS Member
ZS Member
Posts: 11424
Joined: Fri Dec 28, 2007 4:18 pm
Location: central tx

Re: Mature discussion re: illegal activities, politics, religion

Post by phil_in_cs » Thu Oct 23, 2008 12:44 pm

mpi wrote:i would have to say that it's because maturity is in short supply around here.
It is in short supply in general. I'm not into the illegal crap, but where are various viewpoints on politics and/or religion discussed in a mature matter? That would be interesting to find. Everywhere on the internet I know of that discusses those either gets to be a group think situation where dissent is shouted down, or just non stop trolling and hating.
Don't confuse a belligerent and aggressive attitude with the strength, training, and conditioning needed to prevail in a fight. How do you know you have the Will To Win, if you don't even have the will to train?

User avatar
StrangeLove
* * *
Posts: 436
Joined: Tue Apr 22, 2008 4:06 pm
Location: The Center of the Universe
Contact:

Re: Mature discussion re: illegal activities, politics, religion

Post by StrangeLove » Thu Oct 23, 2008 12:51 pm

maetsack wrote:Something has been bothering me for a while and it’s the knee-jerk reaction to even the hint of some action that is currently illegal or some other banned topic.
I've run a few forums in my day and I don't know anyone that would allow discussion of illegal activity. Thats a huge liability that no one, much less a non-profit, would want to bear.

I tend to agree with the observations about how politics and religion can lead to disputes, but I post on quite a few politics boards and have found that there is generally a core of respectful debaters. Those that tend to fly off the handle don't usually stick around for long.

Not to spam (please delete this if it's considered spam), I'm in the process of setting up a politics social network that you're welcome to join if politics is your thing. The address is in my sig.

Post Reply

Return to “Ask ZS”