Bloomberg: Jobs crisis could spark riots here (in USA)

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Re: Bloomberg: Jobs crisis could spark riots here (in USA)

Post by dogbane » Tue Oct 18, 2011 10:08 am

Tucker Carlson's (very political) website, among others, has reported that the American Nazi Party and Communist Party USA has endorsed the OWS movement. http://dailycaller.com/2011/10/17/red-w ... -protests/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

While the headline says the ANP has endorsed the movement, the ANP site (linked in the article) reads more like an exhortation to exploit the moment to advance their agenda, and not so much as an endorsement of the movement. The CPUSA has endorsed the movement. I'm not so worried about them being a problem (tho' who knows?), but it will be interesting to see how the OWSers deal with Nazis showing and throwing their brand of anti-Banker rhetoric into the mix. Will they be tolerated or expelled? Strange bedfellows, indeed.
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Re: Bloomberg: Jobs crisis could spark riots here (in USA)

Post by the_alias » Tue Oct 18, 2011 10:21 am

On a similar note to dogbane I saw in the UK protests the usual suspects were there with their banners. The usual suspects being the trots of the Socialist Workers Party - that lot are at pretty much every demo in the UK and are very smart by always making extra placards for innocents who need something to wave which inflates their actual numbers massively.
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Re: Bloomberg: Jobs crisis could spark riots here (in USA)

Post by raptor » Tue Oct 18, 2011 10:27 am

dogbane wrote:Tucker Carlson's (very political) website, among others, has reported that the American Nazi Party and Communist Party USA has endorsed the OWS movement. http://dailycaller.com/2011/10/17/red-w ... -protests/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

While the headline says the ANP has endorsed the movement, the ANP site (linked in the article) reads more like an exhortation to exploit the moment to advance their agenda, and not so much as an endorsement of the movement. The CPUSA has endorsed the movement. I'm not so worried about them being a problem (tho' who knows?), but it will be interesting to see how the OWSers deal with Nazis showing and throwing their brand of anti-Banker rhetoric into the mix. Will they be tolerated or expelled? Strange bedfellows, indeed.
Amazing. I have seen some amazing things but the thought of the ANP and CPUSA joining arms marching in solidarity would be something truly out of the box in bizzarro land.

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Re: Bloomberg: Jobs crisis could spark riots here (in USA)

Post by dogbane » Tue Oct 18, 2011 10:29 am

The most overtly political signs I have seen at the local protest have been Ron Paul/end the fed signs.

Here is some of our local news: A well-mannered but persistent protest

The article doesn't address the dispute between the local organizer and "Anonymous NC."
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Re: Bloomberg: Jobs crisis could spark riots here (in USA)

Post by whisk.e.rebellion » Tue Oct 18, 2011 10:37 am

dogbane wrote:The most overtly political signs I have seen at the local protest have been Ron Paul/end the fed signs.
Yeah, up in San Francisco the End the Fed and Occupy movements met up and joined together in protest. It was kind of like cats and dogs sleeping together.
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Re: Bloomberg: Jobs crisis could spark riots here (in USA)

Post by Dawgboy » Tue Oct 18, 2011 10:54 am

The thought of the American Nazi Party "joining up" is extremely disturbing to me.

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Re: Bloomberg: Jobs crisis could spark riots here (in USA)

Post by NoAm » Tue Oct 18, 2011 10:59 am

whisk.e.rebellion wrote:
dogbane wrote:The most overtly political signs I have seen at the local protest have been Ron Paul/end the fed signs.
Yeah, up in San Francisco the End the Fed and Occupy movements met up and joined together in protest. It was kind of like cats and dogs sleeping together.
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Some of these groups joining Occupy are extreme! I hope they don't take what Occupy has and take over with their own objectives. I don't know enough about the 'Anonymous' group to make a decision yet. Do they seem a bit scary or is it just me?
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Re: Bloomberg: Jobs crisis could spark riots here (in USA)

Post by dogbane » Tue Oct 18, 2011 11:02 am

Anonymous is a loose group of anarchist hackers who engage in acts of "civil disobedience" on the interwebz. My view of them is not positive, even if I think some of their targets have deserved to be taken down a notch or two.
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Re: Bloomberg: Jobs crisis could spark riots here (in USA)

Post by NoAm » Tue Oct 18, 2011 11:06 am

dogbane wrote:Anonymous is a loose group of anarchist hackers who engage in acts of "civil disobedience" on the interwebz. My view of them is not positive, even if I think some of their targets have deserved to be taken down a notch or two.
Good, it's not just me then!

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Re: Bloomberg: Jobs crisis could spark riots here (in USA)

Post by raptor » Tue Oct 18, 2011 11:08 am

Dawgboy wrote:
ANP... I can't think of a better group of "Ignoranuses" to begin retroactive abortions on... Yes, I am hating on them, and for good reason.
The first amendment applies to all. Whether you agree with them or not. Please lets keep politics and attacks out of this thread. It is useful and I would hate to see it locked.

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Re: Bloomberg: Jobs crisis could spark riots here (in USA)

Post by SeerSavant » Tue Oct 18, 2011 11:10 am

dogbane wrote:Anonymous is a loose group of anarchist hackers who engage in acts of "civil disobedience" on the interwebz. My view of them is not positive, even if I think some of their targets have deserved to be taken down a notch or two.

My experience with them is of a different nature http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Chanology
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Re: Bloomberg: Jobs crisis could spark riots here (in USA)

Post by shrapnel » Tue Oct 18, 2011 11:34 am

Dawgboy, you have a PM.
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Re: Bloomberg: Jobs crisis could spark riots here (in USA)

Post by ninja-elbow » Tue Oct 18, 2011 12:14 pm

Well thought-out article explaining the Occupy Movement .... from Fox News. Serioulsy, no snarky-ness here. The writer, so far, explained it best in hte op-ed.
http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2011/10/ ... ll-street/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Critics of the growing Occupy Wall Street movement complain that the protesters don’t have a policy agenda and, therefore, don’t stand for anything. They're wrong. The key isn’t what protesters are for but rather what they’re against -- the gaping inequality that has poisoned our economy, our politics and our nation.

In America today, 400 people have more wealth than the bottom 150 million combined. That’s not because 150 million Americans are pathetically lazy or even unlucky. In fact, Americans have been working harder than ever -- productivity has risen in the last several decades. Big business profits and CEO bonuses have also gone up. Worker salaries, however, have declined.

Most of the Occupy Wall Street protesters aren’t opposed to free market capitalism. In fact, what they want is an end to the crony capitalist system now in place, that makes it easier for the rich and powerful to get even more rich and powerful while making it increasingly hard for the rest of us to get by. The protesters are not anti-American radicals. They are the defenders of the American Dream, the decision from the birth of our nation that success should be determined by hard work not royal bloodlines.

Sure, bank executives may work a lot harder than you and me or a mother of three doing checkout at a grocery store. Maybe the bankers work ten times harder. Maybe even a hundred times harder. But they’re compensated a thousand times more.

The question is not how Occupy Wall Street protesters can find that gross discrepancy immoral. The question is why every one of us isn’t protesting with them.

According to polls, most Americans support the 99% movement, even if they’re not taking to the streets. In fact, support for the Occupy Wall Street protests is not only higher than for either political party in Washington but greater than support for the Tea Party. And unlike the Tea Party which was fueled by national conservative donors and institutions, the Occupy Wall Street Movement is spreading organically from Idaho to Indiana. Institutions on the left, including unions, have been relatively late to the game.

Ironically, the original Boston Tea Party activists would likely support Occupy Wall Street more as well. Note that the original Tea Party didn’t protest taxes, merely the idea of taxation without representation -- and they were actually protesting the crown-backed monopoly of the East India Company, the main big business of the day.

Americans today also support taxes. In fact, two-thirds of voters -- including a majority of Republicans -- support increasing taxes on the rich, something the Occupy Wall Street protests implicitly support. That’s not just anarchist lefty kids. Soccer moms and construction workers and, yes, even some bankers want to see our economy work for the 99%, not just the 1%, and are flocking to Occupy protests in droves.

I’ve even met a number of Libertarians and Tea Party conservatives at these protests. So the critics are right, the Occupy Wall Street movement isn’t the Tea Party. Occupy Wall Street is much, much broader.

Maybe it’s hard to see your best interests reflected in a sometimes rag-tag, inarticulate, imperfect group of protesters. But make no mistake about it: While horrendous inequality is not an American tradition, protest is.And if you’re part of the 99% of underpaid or unemployed Americans crushed in the current economy, the Occupy Wall Street protests are your best chance at fixing the broken economy that is breaking your back.

Sally Kohn is the founder and Chief Education Officer of the Movement Vision Lab, a grassroots think tank. Follow her on Twitter@sallykohn.

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2011/10/ ... z1b9dE9eD2" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
So, and this is in line with what has been explained to me via many other outlets, the movement is not about "We want x, we will do y until x is gotten". It's more about being a networking oppurtunity and a protest at the same time. They don't have solid goals or agenda yet... so they are camping out in large groups, all the while protesting, and coming up with plans and goals in the eyes of the media and authorities.
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Re: Bloomberg: Jobs crisis could spark riots here (in USA)

Post by Kommander » Tue Oct 18, 2011 12:48 pm

Ninja-elbow I don't want to get into politics here but allot of the things stated as facts in that article are not consistent with numerous other things I have read and my own observations of the local Occupy Phoenix movement. Just as an example the local Tea Party and Occupy guys want NOTHING to do with each other, going so far as to publicly deny any connection. I encourage everyone who can to go down and see the local protests for yourself.
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Re: Bloomberg: Jobs crisis could spark riots here (in USA)

Post by TacAir » Tue Oct 18, 2011 1:03 pm

Seems things are not all rainbows in NY..

NY Post via Fox Detroit
'Occupy Wall Street" protesters said Monday that packs of thieves within their ranks have been robbing their fellow demonstrators blind, making off with pricey cameras, phones and laptops -- and even a hefty bundle of donated cash and food.

“Stealing is our biggest problem at the moment,” said Nan Terrie, 18, a kitchen and legal-team volunteer from Fort Lauderdale. “I had my Mac stolen -- that was like $5,500. Every night, something else is gone. Last night, our entire [kitchen] budget for the day was stolen so the first thing I had to do was ... get the message out to our supporters that we needed food!”

Bummer dude.
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I have seen many in the mass media playing some of the protest as akin to the Boston Tea Party - an interesting take to say the least.
I have a link here
http://www.boston-tea-party.org/timeline.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
that lists the many British provocations that lead up the the "Party" - oddly, that fracus was - in part -over taxes as well. THe link has a well laid out timeline and may be worthwile for those of us that slept thru that part of history class, or had a school that failed to cover that part of history.

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Re: Bloomberg: Jobs crisis could spark riots here (in USA)

Post by skelco » Tue Oct 18, 2011 1:16 pm

Kommander wrote:Ninja-elbow I don't want to get into politics here but allot of the things stated as facts in that article are not consistent with numerous other things I have read and my own observations of the local Occupy Phoenix movement. Just as an example the local Tea Party and Occupy guys want NOTHING to do with each other, going so far as to publicly deny any connection. I encourage everyone who can to go down and see the local protests for yourself.
there are still a lot of wingnuts with disparate agendas involved (and more are showing up every day to try and get a slice of the camera time) and i'm sure there are also regional differences, but I'm noticing that there is more coherent coverage of the OWS movements goals as they surface and as major media takes the movement more seriously. I think it's a stretch to think that groups like the ANP will gan any traction in this thing. If anything (IMHO) it will go more mainstream.
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Re: Bloomberg: Jobs crisis could spark riots here (in USA)

Post by basmith42 » Tue Oct 18, 2011 2:51 pm

Intersting WSJ article on the OWS folk... at one point it claims that 32% of those polled in this article say they would support violence.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 ... 45362.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Bloomberg: Jobs crisis could spark riots here (in USA)

Post by ninja-elbow » Tue Oct 18, 2011 4:14 pm

Kommander wrote:Ninja-elbow I don't want to get into politics here but allot of the things stated as facts in that article are not consistent with numerous other things I have read and my own observations of the local Occupy Phoenix movement. Just as an example the local Tea Party and Occupy guys want NOTHING to do with each other, going so far as to publicly deny any connection. I encourage everyone who can to go down and see the local protests for yourself.
What I posted was more of a reaction in the fact that Fox printed, al beit an op-ed piece from a "token representative", something in a positive light regarding the OWS movemnet. I'd like to steer discussion to why would they do such a thing?

As I stated numerous times I have not only gone down to visit my friend, Oregon Progressive Party Board Member Phillip Kaufman being one of the OccPDX organizers, protesting from my workplace 2 blocks away, I have contemplated camping myself but have chosen not to due to the illegalities of camping in the park after 10pm and have been actively recruited by OccPDX "leadership". Furthermore I read the Occupy Portland GA notes regularly.

I have respectfully said "no" to them but thanked them for giving up Main Street and wished them luck and peace.
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Re: Bloomberg: Jobs crisis could spark riots here (in USA)

Post by ninja-elbow » Tue Oct 18, 2011 4:18 pm

TacAir wrote:Seems things are not all rainbows in NY..

NY Post via Fox Detroit
'Occupy Wall Street" protesters said Monday that packs of thieves within their ranks have been robbing their fellow demonstrators blind, making off with pricey cameras, phones and laptops -- and even a hefty bundle of donated cash and food.

“Stealing is our biggest problem at the moment,” said Nan Terrie, 18, a kitchen and legal-team volunteer from Fort Lauderdale. “I had my Mac stolen -- that was like $5,500. Every night, something else is gone. Last night, our entire [kitchen] budget for the day was stolen so the first thing I had to do was ... get the message out to our supporters that we needed food!”

Bummer dude.
*********************
Been having a thieving issue in OccPDX too. Last weekend's GA resulted in a security mandate. Theft, drugs, alcohol, and one mythical sexual assault (mythical because no one has come forward to accuse or admit to being a victim but police and OccPDX is investigating still).
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Re: Bloomberg: Jobs crisis could spark riots here (in USA)

Post by Kommander » Tue Oct 18, 2011 8:45 pm

Sorry ninja-elbow I did not mean to imply that you had not seen the protests for yourself, just that those who had not should. Gallup has this poll out today. 63% of Americans do not know enough about the protests to approve or disprove.
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Re: Bloomberg: Jobs crisis could spark riots here (in USA)

Post by ZombieGranny » Tue Oct 18, 2011 9:11 pm

Kommander wrote:Sorry ninja-elbow I did not mean to imply that you had not seen the protests for yourself, just that those who had not should. Gallup has this poll out today. 63% of Americans do not know enough about the protests to approve of disprove.
I'm not quite sure what exactly your post means...
Are you saying everyone should travel several hundred miles to see people sitting around in a park in the city?
That doesn't make sense to me, so I assume I missed the mark.
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Re: Bloomberg: Jobs crisis could spark riots here (in USA)

Post by razi » Tue Oct 18, 2011 10:31 pm

ZombieGranny wrote:
Kommander wrote:Sorry ninja-elbow I did not mean to imply that you had not seen the protests for yourself, just that those who had not should. Gallup has this poll out today. 63% of Americans do not know enough about the protests to approve of disprove.
I'm not quite sure what exactly your post means...
Are you saying everyone should travel several hundred miles to see people sitting around in a park in the city?
That doesn't make sense to me, so I assume I missed the mark.
OWS protests are occurring in most major cities to one extent or another (even in cities around the globe). You don't need to go to New Yawk to participate.

re: goals:

It's mostly non-specific because no one goal will fix the issue (otherwise it would be fixed). Many point to campaign finance reform, reinstating Glass-Steagall, and other similar issues. There are also groups looking to commandeer the movement for their own purposes, but as far as I can tell, the OWS movement opposes almost everyone who's entrenched in the system (from both sides of the political divide).
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Re: Bloomberg: Jobs crisis could spark riots here (in USA)

Post by ninja-elbow » Tue Oct 18, 2011 10:38 pm

ZombieGranny wrote:
Kommander wrote:Sorry ninja-elbow I did not mean to imply that you had not seen the protests for yourself, just that those who had not should. Gallup has this poll out today. 63% of Americans do not know enough about the protests to approve of disprove.
I'm not quite sure what exactly your post means...
Are you saying everyone should travel several hundred miles to see people sitting around in a park in the city?
That doesn't make sense to me, so I assume I missed the mark.
ZG, you can also go to specific websites like http://occupypdx.org/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; to see what they are talking about. Granted, many within the movement will disagree with what the ones in charge of the website I just linked are putting out there but the organizers of said website also post the dissenitng views too (at least in the PDX one).

Think of it as an open source doc... that's what some of them are calling it.
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Re: Bloomberg: Jobs crisis could spark riots here (in USA)

Post by Kommander » Tue Oct 18, 2011 10:55 pm

I meant that only if one has both local protests and the time to go see them. If one has better things to do and/or lives far away then obviously it would not be worth it.
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