Explosion in Oslo

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Re: Explosion in Oslo

Post by Biggin » Mon Jul 25, 2011 1:49 pm

What sucks is that this asshole is going to get put up in a cushy Norwegian jail. :evil:

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Re: Explosion in Oslo

Post by raptor » Mon Jul 25, 2011 2:12 pm

Krustofski wrote:
raptor wrote:I saw that report. There was a picture of the scumbag with a grin/smirk. I was very disappointed to see he had no facial bruises, no black eyes and nothing was swollen. It is a shame he did not "trip and fall" while in custody.
I beg to differ. We can be better than him. We absolutely have to.
Sorry but that smile on his face in the photo just makes me wish the NOPD had arrested him. My apologies. :oops:

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Re: Explosion in Oslo

Post by Gingerbread Man » Mon Jul 25, 2011 2:17 pm

Biggin wrote:What sucks is that this asshole is going to get put up in a cushy Norwegian jail. :evil:
And the MAXIMUM sentence you can get for any crime in Norway is 21 years. 21 years and he's done. Well, unless a judge thinks he'll commit the crime again.

What I really hate about this is this guy was just crazy. And there are folks/media making it political, blaming this group or that. No, it was just a fucking nut bag that used a weak excuse for mass murder. FUCK!
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Re: Explosion in Oslo

Post by dogbane » Mon Jul 25, 2011 2:19 pm

Regular Guy wrote:
Biggin wrote:What sucks is that this asshole is going to get put up in a cushy Norwegian jail. :evil:
And the MAXIMUM sentence you can get for any crime in Norway is 21 years. 21 years and he's done. Well, unless a judge thinks he'll commit the crime again.

What I really hate about this is this guy was just crazy. And there are folks/media making it political, blaming this group or that. No, it was just a fucking nut bag that used a weak excuse for mass murder. FUCK!
No, it IS a politically motivated attack, even if it is a lone nut, which it may or may not be (he is claiming accomplices and other cells, but that may be bullshit).
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Re: Explosion in Oslo

Post by razi » Mon Jul 25, 2011 2:22 pm

http://www.theatlantic.com/infocus/2011 ... ay/100113/

A selection of photos from Norway. Some are graphic.

One of the shooter: http://i.imgur.com/4J8uJ.jpg

one of the mourners:

http://cdn.theatlantic.com/static/infoc ... 737011.jpg
Last edited by razi on Mon Jul 25, 2011 2:26 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Explosion in Oslo

Post by Gingerbread Man » Mon Jul 25, 2011 2:23 pm

dogbane wrote:
Regular Guy wrote:
Biggin wrote:What sucks is that this asshole is going to get put up in a cushy Norwegian jail. :evil:
And the MAXIMUM sentence you can get for any crime in Norway is 21 years. 21 years and he's done. Well, unless a judge thinks he'll commit the crime again.

What I really hate about this is this guy was just crazy. And there are folks/media making it political, blaming this group or that. No, it was just a fucking nut bag that used a weak excuse for mass murder. FUCK!
No, it IS a politically motivated attack, even if it is a lone nut, which it may or may not be (he is claiming accomplices and other cells, but that may be bullshit).
Sure, it's politically motivated but it's still an excuse for murder. Fucking bothers the hell out of me. I think we can disagree on ideas without killing each other.
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Re: Explosion in Oslo

Post by shrapnel » Mon Jul 25, 2011 2:25 pm

Haters gonna hate, and nutbags gonna... nutbag. It's what they do. And it's hideous and awful when they do it, but we, as non-nutbags, must soldier on.
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Re: Explosion in Oslo

Post by Gingerbread Man » Mon Jul 25, 2011 2:29 pm

shrapnel wrote:Haters gonna hate, and nutbags gonna... nutbag. It's what they do. And it's hideous and awful when they do it, but we, as non-nutbags, must soldier on.
Word. I just looked at the blast for the first time. God Bless Norway. Jesus. That was a big bomb. I really don't know how the police didn't shoot him on sight. I don't know if I'd have had the restraint. That why I'm not a cop.
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Re: Explosion in Oslo

Post by Makarov » Mon Jul 25, 2011 3:25 pm

Regular Guy wrote: And the MAXIMUM sentence you can get for any crime in Norway is 21 years.
Note; while we got a maximum sentence of 21 years in jail, we've also got another kind of sentence called preventive detention.
This sentence is used for people like Anders Behring Breivik. While the original sentence is limited in time up to 21 years(like prison), it can be extended indefinitely after that as the judge sees fit, making it a proper life sentence. He's going to live in a prison cell for the rest of his life.
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Re: Explosion in Oslo

Post by Krustofski » Mon Jul 25, 2011 3:27 pm

Makarov wrote:Note; while we got a maximum sentence of 21 years in jail, we've also got another kind of sentence called preventive detention.
This sentence is used for people like Anders Behring Breivik. While the original sentence is limited in time up to 21 years(like prison), it can be extended indefinitely after that as the judge sees fit, making it a proper life sentence. He's going to live in a prison cell for the rest of his life.
It is basically the same in Germany. A life sentence means 25 years, but there still is preventive detention.
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Re: Explosion in Oslo

Post by KnightoftheRoc » Mon Jul 25, 2011 8:29 pm

Krustofski wrote:I just watched the news. Thankfully, the number of deads was adjusted to 76. The original assessment was based on witness statements that were slightly off. Though it may rise again, as several people are still in critical condition. :(

Anders Behring Breivik admited everything, but plead not guilty. Said he had to do it. He also claimed to have had an accomplice. (FTFY)Judge had him admitted for psychiatric examination.
Accomplice? I don't think an imaginary friend or a voice in your head qualifies as an accomplice. "Crazy" is pretty much a one man show.
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Re: Explosion in Oslo

Post by DarkAxel » Mon Jul 25, 2011 9:04 pm

I've been following this story in the news, and while I am not shocked or surprised that it happened, I pray that the people of Norway and the families of the victims find comfort in every minute they spent with their loved ones while they were with us on Earth. I pray that you do not let this tragedy fill your hearts with sadness, hate, or anger: but that the memories of your loved ones fill you with joy and enrich your lives every single day. Do not mourn their deaths: celebrate their lives.

As for the criminal that committed these murders, try to remember that any fool can kill for his beliefs: Heroes die for theirs.
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Re: Explosion in Oslo

Post by Jeriah » Mon Jul 25, 2011 11:07 pm

DarkAxel wrote:As for the criminal that committed these murders, try to remember that any fool can kill for his beliefs: Heroes die for theirs.
Plenty of murderous fools die for their whack-ass, dumbshit, cockstain bum-nuggets that pass for beliefs. The difference between a criminal fool and a hero lies in the motives behind the actions and the merits of the belief, not in whether or not one meets one's end in pursuing them. If he'd been gunned down by the cops or taken his own life, he'd be no less a villain.

If a person has some beliefs and is looking for a litmus test as to whether they're a good guy or a bad guy for holding 'em, here's a start: the instant your beliefs lead you to intentionally harm an innocent third party, that makes you wrong. Even if your beliefs were 100% solid gold to begin with (and I'm not saying this guy had anything worth saying), the instant you start shooting kids to prove a point, you're wrong, and a rancid cumbucket to boot. That's true whether or not you die in the process.
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Re: Explosion in Oslo

Post by DarkAxel » Tue Jul 26, 2011 4:59 am

Jeriah wrote:
DarkAxel wrote:As for the criminal that committed these murders, try to remember that any fool can kill for his beliefs: Heroes die for theirs.
Plenty of murderous fools die for their whack-ass, dumbshit, cockstain bum-nuggets that pass for beliefs. The difference between a criminal fool and a hero lies in the motives behind the actions and the merits of the belief, not in whether or not one meets one's end in pursuing them. If he'd been gunned down by the cops or taken his own life, he'd be no less a villain.

If a person has some beliefs and is looking for a litmus test as to whether they're a good guy or a bad guy for holding 'em, here's a start: the instant your beliefs lead you to intentionally harm an innocent third party, that makes you wrong. Even if your beliefs were 100% solid gold to begin with (and I'm not saying this guy had anything worth saying), the instant you start shooting kids to prove a point, you're wrong, and a rancid cumbucket to boot. That's true whether or not you die in the process.
While you do have a point, I believe the spirit of what I said stands.

Though you are definitely right about killing children. This useless bag of mostly water is no different then the shit-stains that shot up that day-care center in Ma'a lot, Israel a few decades ago. There are many valid reasons why a person might have to use violence, but hate isn't one of them.
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Re: Explosion in Oslo

Post by Smü » Tue Jul 26, 2011 5:50 am

Biggin wrote:What sucks is that this asshole is going to get put up in a cushy Norwegian jail. :evil:
Yet I highly doubt that his time in prison will be very cushy. Inmates tend to be somewhat edgy towards people that did harm to or killed children.

Aditionally, I'd like to aplaud Jeriah's post. Very well put.
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Re: Explosion in Oslo

Post by Kommander » Tue Jul 26, 2011 7:46 am

They will probably keep him in solitary for the duration as that is what is happening now.
Why must all the hoops be on fire?

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Re: Explosion in Oslo

Post by raptor » Tue Jul 26, 2011 10:03 am

Jeriah wrote: If a person has some beliefs and is looking for a litmus test as to whether they're a good guy or a bad guy for holding 'em, here's a start: the instant your beliefs lead you to intentionally harm an innocent third party, that makes you wrong. Even if your beliefs were 100% solid gold to begin with (and I'm not saying this guy had anything worth saying), the instant you start shooting kids to prove a point, you're wrong, and a rancid cumbucket to boot. That's true whether or not you die in the process.
QFT

An excellent litmus test.

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Re: Explosion in Oslo

Post by Kommander » Tue Jul 26, 2011 10:21 am

raptor wrote:
Jeriah wrote: If a person has some beliefs and is looking for a litmus test as to whether they're a good guy or a bad guy for holding 'em, here's a start: the instant your beliefs lead you to intentionally harm an innocent third party, that makes you wrong. Even if your beliefs were 100% solid gold to begin with (and I'm not saying this guy had anything worth saying), the instant you start shooting kids to prove a point, you're wrong, and a rancid cumbucket to boot. That's true whether or not you die in the process.
QFT

An excellent litmus test.
I am not sure I agree with this but I am afraid to elaborate as my disagreements are political in nature and I don't want to derail this thread any further.
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Re: Explosion in Oslo

Post by crypto » Tue Jul 26, 2011 10:43 am

raptor wrote:
Jeriah wrote: If a person has some beliefs and is looking for a litmus test as to whether they're a good guy or a bad guy for holding 'em, here's a start: the instant your beliefs lead you to intentionally harm an innocent third party, that makes you wrong. Even if your beliefs were 100% solid gold to begin with (and I'm not saying this guy had anything worth saying), the instant you start shooting kids to prove a point, you're wrong, and a rancid cumbucket to boot. That's true whether or not you die in the process.
QFT

An excellent litmus test.

With all due respect, we call that 'collateral damage' when we do it as a nation.

Not that I'm defending what the crazy guy did, at all.


I'm just saying, its not that good of a litmus test.
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Re: Explosion in Oslo

Post by Kommander » Tue Jul 26, 2011 10:50 am

That's what I was thinking as well crypto.
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Re: Explosion in Oslo

Post by raptor » Tue Jul 26, 2011 10:56 am

Kommander wrote:
raptor wrote:
Jeriah wrote: If a person has some beliefs and is looking for a litmus test as to whether they're a good guy or a bad guy for holding 'em, here's a start: the instant your beliefs lead you to intentionally harm an innocent third party, that makes you wrong. Even if your beliefs were 100% solid gold to begin with (and I'm not saying this guy had anything worth saying), the instant you start shooting kids to prove a point, you're wrong, and a rancid cumbucket to boot. That's true whether or not you die in the process.
QFT

An excellent litmus test.
I am not sure I agree with this but I am afraid to elaborate as my disagreements are political in nature and I don't want to derail this thread any further.

The world is not always so black and white that a litmus test is the final decision maker. It is a tool to help you decide if something is on the right track.

However in my limited experience with chemistry:

A litmus test is a simple test for a single item. When you fail a litmus test in most cases you should expand the testing to determine whether or not the litmus test is a) accurate b) applicable to the chemistry in question c) impacts the desired results.

If you fail a litmus test then you should stop what you are doing and review your chemistry to see why you failed. The same for the litmus test proposed by Jeriah.

As for "collateral damage" shit happens in war and collateral damage is the result of unintended consequences. If it is intended it is not collateral damage.

The other thing is: What is an innocent person? In ww-2 we bombed civilian population centers. Are civilians engaged in war material production innocent?

Like I said a litmus test is a simple test that should make you stop and rethink your intended actions. I would also add that in both cases collateral damage and bombing civilian targets I think everyone agrees that these actions are undesirable and should not be undertaken lightly.

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Re: Explosion in Oslo

Post by KnightoftheRoc » Tue Jul 26, 2011 11:50 am

crypto wrote:
raptor wrote:
Jeriah wrote: If a person has some beliefs and is looking for a litmus test as to whether they're a good guy or a bad guy for holding 'em, here's a start: the instant your beliefs lead you to intentionally harm an innocent third party, that makes you wrong. Even if your beliefs were 100% solid gold to begin with (and I'm not saying this guy had anything worth saying), the instant you start shooting kids to prove a point, you're wrong, and a rancid cumbucket to boot. That's true whether or not you die in the process.
QFT

An excellent litmus test.

With all due respect, we call that 'collateral damage' when we do it as a nation.

Not that I'm defending what the crazy guy did, at all.


I'm just saying, its not that good of a litmus test.
Actually, I don't see where it fails as a test, even for a nation- any nation. Not, that is, if that nation wants to present itself as being a moral, civilized society. Whether you agree with the US being in the nations it's in now or not, the US is not, to my knowledge, intentionally bombing any children's hospitals or schools in order to further their goals. There's a lot my country does I'm not really 100% behind, but at least, on this score, I don't feel a need to hang my head in shame. If a test of moral character can be used for an individual, I don't see why it shouldn't be used for a nation as well.
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Re: Explosion in Oslo

Post by shrapnel » Tue Jul 26, 2011 11:56 am

So, uhm, back on topic and everything. Any new developments?
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Re: Explosion in Oslo

Post by raptor » Tue Jul 26, 2011 11:59 am

shrapnel wrote:So, uhm, back on topic and everything. Any new developments?
It came as Mr. Breivik, who has admitted to carrying out Friday's attacks in Norway, could be charged with crimes against humanity, which carry a maximum penalty of 30 years in prison, Norwegian police prosecutor Sturla Henreiksboe said Tuesday.
He may get 7 more years in jail.

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