Cargo sparks security alert at international airports

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Cargo sparks security alert at international airports

Post by TC » Fri Oct 29, 2010 1:37 pm

BBC wrote: Cargo sparks security alert at international airports

Security alerts are under way in the US, UK and Middle East after suspicious packages were found in Britain and Dubai.

The White House said the packages had been found overnight on two planes in transit to the US from Yemen.

Investigations are continuing at Newark in New Jersey, and Philadelphia.

A spokeswoman for the Jewish Federation in Chicago said the community had been warned to be on the alert in the wake of the discoveries.

"We were notified this morning that synagogues should be on the alert," the spokeswoman, Linda Haase, told Reuters news agency. "We are taking appropriate precautions and are advising local synagogues to do likewise."

The suspicious package in the UK was believed to be on its way to Chicago.
Al-Qaeda link?

New aviation security measures were being taken in light of the alert, the US Homeland Security Department announced.

The US is investigating whether the packages have any links to al-Qaeda's branch in Yemen - al-Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula (AQAP).

"If there is a nexus of terrorism then AQAP would have to be at the top of the list of suspects," a US official was quoted as telling Reuters news agency.

The White House said in a statement: "Based on close co-operation among US government agencies and with our foreign allies and partners, authorities were able to identify and examine two suspicious packages, one in London and one in Dubai.

"Both of these packages originated from Yemen. As a result of security precautions triggered by this threat, the additional measures were taken regarding the flights at Newark Liberty and Philadelphia International Airports."

The suspicious item found in the UK was reportedly an ink toner cartridge that had been tampered with.

According to the BBC's Home Affairs correspondent Daniel Sandford, it was not a "bomb" but was "potentially sinister".

A suspect package from Yemen was also examined on a delivery truck in Brooklyn, New York, and later declared safe.

New York City Police Commissioner Ray Kelly said: "Obviously, examination of other packages are going on at other airports: Newark Airport, one. Philadelphia is the other one here. And some in Europe and in airports in the Middle East."

Emergency services were called to the UK airport in Donington, Leicestershire, overnight and evacuated a distribution centre, while the suspicious package was examined.

They closed off the freight distribution centre and a number of link roads.

The cordon was lifted only to be reimposed at 1400 BST (1300 GMT) for further investigations.
Planes isolated

The planes in the US were taken to remote locations to be searched.

At least one of the cargo planes being searched in the US was reportedly a UPS jet at Philadelphia.

"Out of an abundance of caution the planes were moved to a remote location where they are being met by law enforcement officials," said the TSA.

Earlier, US media reports suggested the suspicious package had been identified in London, but this proved to be incorrect.

Airports in London and around the rest of the UK were unaffected.

US security services remain on a high level of vigilance in the wake of the attempted Times Square bombing in May and the alleged attempted Christmas Day airliner bombing.
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Re: Cargo sparks security alert at international airports

Post by phil_in_cs » Fri Oct 29, 2010 3:53 pm

Now saying there were in fact explosives on the planes

http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/us-scramb ... d=12004110" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Suspicious packages from Yemen intercepted in Dubai and England tested positive for explosives, according to President Obama, addressing the nation Friday afternoon about what he now calls "a credible terror threat."

The president said the devices were possibly targeting Jewish community groups in the Chicago area. He vowed to enhance screening of cargo planes in the U.S.
More info at the link
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Re: Cargo sparks security alert at international airports

Post by andygates » Fri Oct 29, 2010 4:00 pm

Now cargo will have to take its shoes off and go in seethru wrappers. :roll:

(also: nice catch, guys)
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Re: Cargo sparks security alert at international airports

Post by phil_in_cs » Fri Oct 29, 2010 4:05 pm

andygates wrote:Now cargo will have to take its shoes off and go in seethru wrappers. :roll:
It's the "Death By A Thousand Cuts" strategy. By using very low cost attacks, even unsuccessful ones like this and the underpants bomber, they cause us to overreact and spend huge money on everything that needs transportation. The costs of everything go up at a time when the economy can't take additional stress.

A very clever plan, and one that seems to be working.
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Re: Cargo sparks security alert at international airports

Post by grand94jeep » Fri Oct 29, 2010 5:32 pm

phil_in_cs wrote:
andygates wrote:Now cargo will have to take its shoes off and go in seethru wrappers. :roll:
It's the "Death By A Thousand Cuts" strategy. By using very low cost attacks, even unsuccessful ones like this and the underpants bomber, they cause us to overreact and spend huge money on everything that needs transportation. The costs of everything go up at a time when the economy can't take additional stress.

A very clever plan, and one that seems to be working.
So true. :evil:

Knee jerk reactions cost money. Not saying that we shouldn't be more cautious, but I'm sure we (being the .gov) will over-react to this.
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Re: Cargo sparks security alert at international airports

Post by raptor » Fri Oct 29, 2010 7:51 pm

phil_in_cs wrote: It's the "Death By A Thousand Cuts" strategy. By using very low cost attacks, even unsuccessful ones like this and the underpants bomber, they cause us to overreact and spend huge money on everything that needs transportation. The costs of everything go up at a time when the economy can't take additional stress.

A very clever plan, and one that seems to be working.
That is exactly what these scum bags are doing. It likely cost them $100 in material and shipping and it will cost us a fortune in response.

It would be nice to return the packages to the shipper delivered via a 1,000 lb GP bomb.

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Re: Cargo sparks security alert at international airports

Post by dukman » Sat Oct 30, 2010 1:28 am

What annoys me about this whole thing is the fact the items made it onto the planes in the first place! Don't they scan packages at the FedEx and UPS hubs?? This could have easily been another Lockerbie!
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Re: Cargo sparks security alert at international airports

Post by TC » Sat Oct 30, 2010 5:06 am

Here's how it went down over here:
The Telegraph wrote: Cargo plane bomb plot: how the terror alert unfolded

The discovery of explosive devices intended for synagogues in Chicago on a cargo plane at East Midlands airport sparked an international terror alert. This is how events unfolded.

Late on Thursday night, an MI6 officer responsible for Yemen received a tip-off from a local source of a possible Al-Qaeda plot to smuggle bombs to America on board cargo aircraft.

Two devices were said to have been placed in the holds of planes that had already taken off from Sana’a, the capital of Yemen, a country that has become one of the key fronts in the battle against Islamic terrorists.

Both flights appeared to be bound for Chicago, but one was flying via Dubai and the other was due to stop for fuel at East Midlands airport, near Nottingham.

The MI6 officer immediately passed the information to officials in London, who in turn alerted the US Department of Homeland Security and their counterparts in Dubai, with a description of what the packages were thought to look like.

It was the beginning of what would become a race against time on three continents to intercept bombs bound for synagogues in the US.

At 3.30am yesterday, officers from Leicestershire police who had been asked to check the hold of the UPS mail plane after it landed at East Midlands reported finding a suspect package in a sealed cargo container.

Addressed to a synagogue in Chicago, the parcel contained an office-sized printer cartridge, which had a small circuit board and wires crudely attached, and white powder inside it rather than the black toner powder it should have contained. MI5 was informed of the find, and five minutes later, at 3.35am UK time, the news had been relayed to US President Barack Obama by John Brennan, his assistant for homeland security and counter-terrorism.

Mr Brennan told the president that a “potential terrorist threat” to the US had been identified.

Mr Obama ordered his intelligence and law enforcement agencies to step up security and find out whether the suspect packages were “part of any additional terrorist plotting”.

America was suddenly on high alert, though anyone who happened to be at East Midlands airport at the time would have seen little sign that the provincial hub was at the centre of a possible international terrorist plot.

Police cordoned off the cargo area of the airport as forensics experts were called in to examine the parcel, but the passenger terminal was allowed to carry on as normal, with no disruption to flights. By 10am, tests had established that the “device” did not contain explosives, and the cordon was lifted.

A quarter of an hour later, in the first of several transatlantic phone calls, Oliver Robbins, David Cameron’s deputy national security adviser, spoke to Mr Brennan and told him no explosives were present. They decided the aircraft should be allowed to take off for Philadelphia, its final stop before Chicago.

For the few airport staff who were aware of what was going on, the bomb scare seemed to have passed.

But 3,500 miles away, the second aircraft that had set off from Yemen was being searched after it landed at Dubai International Airport. Another suspect package, also addressed to a Chicago synagogue and sent via another parcel service, FedEx, was intercepted.

This time, the parcel, which also contained a printer cartridge, did contain explosives.

In London, the latest twist was relayed to the security services, who in turn asked Leicestershire police to double-check the packages taken off the UPS plane at East Midlands.

At 2pm, the security cordon at the airport’s cargo area was re-imposed, and this time a Royal Mail depot and other smaller offices were evacuated.

This time, a Hewlett Packard printer was found contained a hidden device that gave greater cause for concern. It was said to be “cleverly disguised” and appeared to have been linked to a mobile phone. Crucially, tests for explosives now came back positive.

Mr Robbins urgently relayed the news to Mr Brennan at 3pm, and briefed Mr Cameron within the hour. Mr Obama reacted swiftly, ordering UPS and FedEx aircraft to be grounded, with two aircraft searched at Philadelphia, including the one that had taken off from East Midlands, and one at Newark in New Jersey. A UPS lorry was also stopped in New York before being given the all-clear.

Meanwhile, the first hint of a possible plot targeting synagogues was beginning to become public after Chicago police advised the Jewish Federation of Chicago to take security precautions.

By 5pm UK time, news of a possible terrorist plot had broken on American news channels, and East Midlands airport became the focus of world attention.

The discovery of explosives had caused a dramatic shift in the investigation, which was now taken over by the Metropolitan Police’s counter-terrorism command.

The suspicious packages at East Midlands were shrink-wrapped in cellophane and loaded on to a helicopter to be taken to a specialist laboratory for testing.

By 5.30pm, the police had left the airport and removed the cordon, and attention switched to the US, which had now become the centre of frenzied speculation and activity. Ray Kelly, the commissioner of the New York Police Department, took to the airwaves to reassure the city that one package that had originated in Yemen had been intercepted on a UPS lorry in Brooklyn and contained nothing more than bank receipts.

At the White House, Mr Obama’s spokesman, Robert Gibbs, confirmed that “law enforcement agencies discovered potential suspicious packages on two planes in transit to the United States”.

It led to a febrile atmosphere at America’s airports, where false alarms at San Francisco and Maine showed the nervousness that had descended on the continent.

At 8pm, concerns reached a new level when two F15 fighter jets were scrambled to escort an Emirates passenger flight from Dubai, which had a package from Yemen in its hold and was on the way to New York’s JFK airport.

Then, at 9.30, Mr Obama broke the news to the world that both packages had contained explosives and that a “credible terrorist threat” had been foiled.
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Re: Cargo sparks security alert at international airports

Post by Towanda » Sat Oct 30, 2010 9:58 am

dukman wrote:What annoys me about this whole thing is the fact the items made it onto the planes in the first place! Don't they scan packages at the FedEx and UPS hubs?? This could have easily been another Lockerbie!
Cargo -- as opposed to luggage, which is scanned -- is typically not scanned, even when it's being loaded on a passenger plane. It never has been.
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Re: Cargo sparks security alert at international airports

Post by Stercutus » Sat Oct 30, 2010 10:14 am

Seems disaster averted for now. This is one the primary reasons that got me serious about preparing. Non-state actors are powerful and crazy enough to throw a monkey wrench into our delicate machinery of civilization. They have no souls really, as they kill completely without regard to who is killed without any good reason to do so (not talking about any particular group here, there are lots of groups that come from all walks of life that think alike with their disregard for human life).

Suppose for example that they had been successful placing a large number of bombs on cargo air craft flying in the US? They had then caused the planes to crash by exploding say, ten of the bombs, perhaps over large cities. The damage immense, the death toll very high, the chaos would have been amazing. The airports would have been shut down for weeks. It is impossible to really say how bad a disaster it would have been.

I am convinced we will see a serious major disaster within the next few years from terrorists. They will keep looking until they find an unexploited weakness and then exploit it.

Although the Somalia pirates do give me ideas about where all traffic from Yemen must pass before it goes somewhere civilized.
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Re: Cargo sparks security alert at international airports

Post by rhi » Sat Oct 30, 2010 11:51 am

The Telegraph wrote:Late on Thursday night, an MI6 officer responsible for Yemen received a tip-off from a local source of a possible Al-Qaeda plot to smuggle bombs to America on board cargo aircraft.
HUMINT FTW. Let's hope this whole thing wasn't just intended to flush out the mole in the ranks. I would also hope that there are traps in the shipping software that would flag a shipment addressed to American synagogues from a country such as Yemen for a bit more scrutiny.
Blacksmith wrote:Suppose for example that they had been successful placing a large number of bombs on cargo air craft flying in the US? They had then caused the planes to crash by exploding say, ten of the bombs, perhaps over large cities.
Agreed. If this had been better executed, it would have been catastrophic. Imagine if the packages had come from multiple, less obvious origins. Perhaps from Europe or even within the US. Imagine if they had been shipped by multiple carriers and addressed to random companies and individuals. As Blacksmith says, a few explode in the air and result in Lockerbie-style destruction. Others explode out on the delivery trucks. The ones that miss the detonation signal explode when opened by unsuspecting people at the destination. In addition to the injury and loss of life, can you imagine how long shipping would have to be shut down to ensure the system was purged? Can you imagine the effect on businesses and people that depend on just-in-time deliveries? *shudder*
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Re: Cargo sparks security alert at international airports

Post by Bluboots » Sat Oct 30, 2010 12:16 pm

This is mainly dealing with TSA--they even have an app for you phone!
http://www.tsa.gov/index.shtm

Also feel free to check out a compiled list on Aviation security Sites by Dept. of Homeland Security.
http://www.dhs.gov/files/programs/aviat ... urity.shtm

it must have gone through at the least 3 hands (just at the air hub) not to mention all of the high security computer detection software.

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Re: Cargo sparks security alert at international airports

Post by the_alias » Sat Oct 30, 2010 1:12 pm

Something about this really stinks to me. I would assume some people want action/aid in Yemen...

Also, just before the midterms.... :roll:
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Re: Cargo sparks security alert at international airports

Post by grand94jeep » Sat Oct 30, 2010 2:32 pm

the_alias wrote:Something about this really stinks to me. I would assume some people want action/aid in Yemen...

Also, just before the midterms.... :roll:

Agreed.

Something's fishy about all this.

What scares me most though is that these "Terrorists" are out to "destroy" America, and have had multiple failed attempts. Meanwhile, we have people on this very forum who're able to come up with a better plan of destruction than these guys. :shock:

If these guys really hated America, they wouldn't have to hit us here... on this continent. Look what 9/11 did to the world. It hurt the markets and effectively halted all airborne travel. What kind of reaction would we have, post 9/11, if this same style attack happened in another country? Given this current economy, any major terrorist attack, anywhere in the world is going to affect us. Our .govs knee jerk reactions to every little incident is empowering the terrorists day by day. They don't even really have to do anything. Just mail a tape with Osama spouting off some rhetoric and the world goes on alert. :x Death by a thousand cuts indeed.

It's turning into the boy(s) who cried wolf. One day, we are all going to become complacent to these "credible threats" and then the terrorists really will let the wolves loose on us.
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Re: Cargo sparks security alert at international airports

Post by MarkyBoy » Sat Oct 30, 2010 3:05 pm

24 hour rolling TV news and news websites cause a lot of the problems. The constant need for "New" and "Breaking News" tags leads to wild speculation and governments feel the need to step in and be seen to be doing something.

It's far too early to say how credible this threat was. If there were explosives and some sort of detonating mechanism present as reported, then someone did intend harm or disruption. However, any idiot could send the contents of a few fireworks and an old mobile phone through the international postal system and get the same reaction.

Trying to remotely destroy a cargo aircraft, even over a city, is unlikely to achieve the mass casualties that the scumbags want, so if there is more to this, it's a long way from coming out yet. We will however have days and days of pointless speculation in the media. I've followed this on the BBC and i'm sorry to say that the BBC is now as bad as everyone else.

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Re: Cargo sparks security alert at international airports

Post by Stercutus » Sat Oct 30, 2010 3:36 pm

Trying to remotely destroy a cargo aircraft, even over a city, is unlikely to achieve the mass casualties that the scumbags want, so if there is more to this,
It is more about drama that plays well on the news than casualties.
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Re: Cargo sparks security alert at international airports

Post by MarkyBoy » Sat Oct 30, 2010 3:55 pm

It is more about drama that plays well on the news than casualties.
Agreed, but the media is pumping it almost as much as if they had destroyed an aircraft, so they get what they want anyway.

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Re: Cargo sparks security alert at international airports

Post by Jeriah » Sat Oct 30, 2010 4:05 pm

TL, DR.

In other news I bought some toner cartridges, explosives, and a cell phone from some guy off eBay and they haven't gotten here yet. Wonder if they're taking longer because of increased security.
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Re: Cargo sparks security alert at international airports

Post by MarkyBoy » Sat Oct 30, 2010 4:29 pm

I've just seen a new talking head on the BBC TV news say something along the lines of "We are in real trouble now. Our most sophisticated scanners did not pick this up."

No mention that the effort goes into passenger flights, not cargo flights. Good stuff though, I bet they have her on as an expert again. She delivers. And has just won repeat business.

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Re: Cargo sparks security alert at international airports

Post by rhi » Sat Oct 30, 2010 7:22 pm

MarkyBoy wrote:"Our most sophisticated scanners did not pick this up."
I've been thinking about that too.

Scenario 1: The good guys have infiltrated the supply chain and managed to slip in some dummy material that is not an real explosive. Explains why the scanners don't pick it up and why the crotch bomber only managed to medium-well his schlong rather than triggering an explosion.

Scenario 2: The composition of toner somehow interferes with the scanners. Mostly likely is a false positive:
TSA Tommy: "Holy crap! The scanner is lit up like a Christmas tree! We're all gonna' die!"
TSA Timmy: "Chill dude, it does that every time on that damn HP toner. Ignore it."

I'm not about to go Googling around trying to research this at the moment, though. :shock:
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Re: Cargo sparks security alert at international airports

Post by Maeklos » Sun Oct 31, 2010 1:05 am

grand94jeep wrote:What kind of reaction would we have, post 9/11, if this same style attack happened in another country?
I think the world's getting pretty fed up, and no one wants to fight anymore wars.

Time to start nuking places. There's a terrorist training camp here? Nuke that bitch. This country is housing and aiding terrorists? We can't spare anymore troops - just nuke the whole damn place.

"Collateral damage"? I think there's going to be a point reached where other countries' apathy about what's going on in their own backyard is just not going to cut it with the rest of the world and people are just going to stop caring. We're going to start expecting countries to be responsible for what goes on in their own borders.

Pakistan and Saudi Arabia are both good examples of those countries. I mean, we're started carrying out strikes on terrorist camps in Pakistan because they can't do it themselves, right? Not to mention all the terrorist money that flows from and through Saudi Arabia...What happens when the next terror attack is carried out on British soil by Pakistani-trained terrorists financed by Saudi money? Or African jihadis supported by Lebanese arms?

How many countries can we (as a collective group of nations) send troops to before the American, British, Japanese, et al, people get tired of it and demand faster - and, perhaps, more permanent - solutions?

And how and when are we going to start holding other countries responsible for what they allow to happen on their soil?

Americans ourselves have a great capacity for both humanity and anger. December 7th and September 11th are both dates that have a very similar resonance with us. At Pearl Harbor, we had a very clear enemy...and the entire country worked day and night for years to destroy that threat and its allies. At September 11th, we also reacted very similarly, and destroyed those targets we could reach. And now...that furor has settled. But if terrorists keep poking the sleeping giant, eventually, we're going to start reaching out and smashing *everything* perceived as a threat. And that's going to lead to the deaths of a helluva lot of people who didn't need to die...the vast majority of them being "not ours".

What I don't think these people understand is that America - for all our divisiveness, differences, and constant bickering amongst ourselves - is not weak. We're a country born in war, and have been fighting nearly constantly since. Conflict makes us stronger. We're like one big, dysfunctional family...Sure, we may talk about cousin Louis behind his back, and our brother's fondness for women's shoes may be vaguely disturbing, but if someone else says shit about them, then they're going to be picking up their teeth from the cement. America may be red, blue, redneck, hippie, liberal, conservative, gay, straight, whatever...but in the end, we're all Americans. You come at us from the outside, then by heaven and hell, you'd better be ready to reap the whirlwind, buddy. We thrive on conflict. So much so that when we're not busy fighting someone else, we're smashing chairs across our brother's back on the set of Jerry Springer because that fucker won't leave our girlfriend's pumps alone.

I mean, do these idiots seriously want to take on the crazy-ass subway hobo that kicks his own ass for backtalking himself...especially when that hobo happens to be the most powerful man in the world?

Anyway.

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Re: Cargo sparks security alert at international airports

Post by Molon Labe » Sun Oct 31, 2010 2:21 am

Maeklos wrote:
grand94jeep wrote:What kind of reaction would we have, post 9/11, if this same style attack happened in another country?
I think the world's getting pretty fed up, and no one wants to fight anymore wars.

Time to start nuking places. There's a terrorist training camp here? Nuke that bitch. This country is housing and aiding terrorists? We can't spare anymore troops - just nuke the whole damn place.

"Collateral damage"? I think there's going to be a point reached where other countries' apathy about what's going on in their own backyard is just not going to cut it with the rest of the world and people are just going to stop caring. We're going to start expecting countries to be responsible for what goes on in their own borders.

Pakistan and Saudi Arabia are both good examples of those countries. I mean, we're started carrying out strikes on terrorist camps in Pakistan because they can't do it themselves, right? Not to mention all the terrorist money that flows from and through Saudi Arabia...What happens when the next terror attack is carried out on British soil by Pakistani-trained terrorists financed by Saudi money? Or African jihadis supported by Lebanese arms?

How many countries can we (as a collective group of nations) send troops to before the American, British, Japanese, et al, people get tired of it and demand faster - and, perhaps, more permanent - solutions?

And how and when are we going to start holding other countries responsible for what they allow to happen on their soil?

Americans ourselves have a great capacity for both humanity and anger. December 7th and September 11th are both dates that have a very similar resonance with us. At Pearl Harbor, we had a very clear enemy...and the entire country worked day and night for years to destroy that threat and its allies. At September 11th, we also reacted very similarly, and destroyed those targets we could reach. And now...that furor has settled. But if terrorists keep poking the sleeping giant, eventually, we're going to start reaching out and smashing *everything* perceived as a threat. And that's going to lead to the deaths of a helluva lot of people who didn't need to die...the vast majority of them being "not ours".

What I don't think these people understand is that America - for all our divisiveness, differences, and constant bickering amongst ourselves - is not weak. We're a country born in war, and have been fighting nearly constantly since. Conflict makes us stronger. We're like one big, dysfunctional family...Sure, we may talk about cousin Louis behind his back, and our brother's fondness for women's shoes may be vaguely disturbing, but if someone else says shit about them, then they're going to be picking up their teeth from the cement. America may be red, blue, redneck, hippie, liberal, conservative, gay, straight, whatever...but in the end, we're all Americans. You come at us from the outside, then by heaven and hell, you'd better be ready to reap the whirlwind, buddy. We thrive on conflict. So much so that when we're not busy fighting someone else, we're smashing chairs across our brother's back on the set of Jerry Springer because that fucker won't leave our girlfriend's pumps alone.

I mean, do these idiots seriously want to take on the crazy-ass subway hobo that kicks his own ass for backtalking himself...especially when that hobo happens to be the most powerful man in the world?

Anyway.

/rant
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Re: Cargo sparks security alert at international airports

Post by the_alias » Sun Oct 31, 2010 5:14 am

grand94jeep wrote:
the_alias wrote:Something about this really stinks to me. I would assume some people want action/aid in Yemen...

Also, just before the midterms.... :roll:

Agreed.

Something's fishy about all this.

What scares me most though is that these "Terrorists" are out to "destroy" America, and have had multiple failed attempts. Meanwhile, we have people on this very forum who're able to come up with a better plan of destruction than these guys. :shock:

If these guys really hated America, they wouldn't have to hit us here... on this continent. Look what 9/11 did to the world. It hurt the markets and effectively halted all airborne travel. What kind of reaction would we have, post 9/11, if this same style attack happened in another country? Given this current economy, any major terrorist attack, anywhere in the world is going to affect us. Our .govs knee jerk reactions to every little incident is empowering the terrorists day by day. They don't even really have to do anything. Just mail a tape with Osama spouting off some rhetoric and the world goes on alert. :x Death by a thousand cuts indeed.

It's turning into the boy(s) who cried wolf. One day, we are all going to become complacent to these "credible threats" and then the terrorists really will let the wolves loose on us.
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Re: Cargo sparks security alert at international airports

Post by grand94jeep » Sun Oct 31, 2010 2:59 pm

Maeklos wrote:
grand94jeep wrote:What kind of reaction would we have, post 9/11, if this same style attack happened in another country?
I think the world's getting pretty fed up, and no one wants to fight anymore wars.

Time to start nuking places. There's a terrorist training camp here? Nuke that bitch. This country is housing and aiding terrorists? We can't spare anymore troops - just nuke the whole damn place.

"Collateral damage"? I think there's going to be a point reached where other countries' apathy about what's going on in their own backyard is just not going to cut it with the rest of the world and people are just going to stop caring. We're going to start expecting countries to be responsible for what goes on in their own borders.

Pakistan and Saudi Arabia are both good examples of those countries. I mean, we're started carrying out strikes on terrorist camps in Pakistan because they can't do it themselves, right? Not to mention all the terrorist money that flows from and through Saudi Arabia...What happens when the next terror attack is carried out on British soil by Pakistani-trained terrorists financed by Saudi money? Or African jihadis supported by Lebanese arms?

How many countries can we (as a collective group of nations) send troops to before the American, British, Japanese, et al, people get tired of it and demand faster - and, perhaps, more permanent - solutions?

And how and when are we going to start holding other countries responsible for what they allow to happen on their soil?

Americans ourselves have a great capacity for both humanity and anger. December 7th and September 11th are both dates that have a very similar resonance with us. At Pearl Harbor, we had a very clear enemy...and the entire country worked day and night for years to destroy that threat and its allies. At September 11th, we also reacted very similarly, and destroyed those targets we could reach. And now...that furor has settled. But if terrorists keep poking the sleeping giant, eventually, we're going to start reaching out and smashing *everything* perceived as a threat. And that's going to lead to the deaths of a helluva lot of people who didn't need to die...the vast majority of them being "not ours".

What I don't think these people understand is that America - for all our divisiveness, differences, and constant bickering amongst ourselves - is not weak. We're a country born in war, and have been fighting nearly constantly since. Conflict makes us stronger. We're like one big, dysfunctional family...Sure, we may talk about cousin Louis behind his back, and our brother's fondness for women's shoes may be vaguely disturbing, but if someone else says shit about them, then they're going to be picking up their teeth from the cement. America may be red, blue, redneck, hippie, liberal, conservative, gay, straight, whatever...but in the end, we're all Americans. You come at us from the outside, then by heaven and hell, you'd better be ready to reap the whirlwind, buddy. We thrive on conflict. So much so that when we're not busy fighting someone else, we're smashing chairs across our brother's back on the set of Jerry Springer because that fucker won't leave our girlfriend's pumps alone.

I mean, do these idiots seriously want to take on the crazy-ass subway hobo that kicks his own ass for backtalking himself...especially when that hobo happens to be the most powerful man in the world?

Anyway.

/rant
As much as I agree, to an extent, with this train of thought; I disagree on one point. The world (specifically America) will not simply resort to nuking our enemies, just because they're tired of fighting.

This in itself is what will make us vulnerable, because our enemies ARE willing to nuke us.

You are very right about one thing. They are poking a sleeping giant. A giant that is so soundly asleep that all these little things will never wake him up. Strategically, it is best to attack an enemy while they are asleep. I just hope America will wake up in time...
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