Cholera Outbreak Hits Haiti, Nearly 200 Dead

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Re: Cholera Outbreak Hits Haiti, Nearly 200 Dead

Post by Mr. E. Monkey » Fri Oct 29, 2010 4:51 pm

andygates wrote:The way I read this, there's some local politicking going on too. Come to think of it, exactly the kind of opportunistic little politicking that Haiti is sadly famous for. Caveat with that UN-hate, fellas. ;)
Politicians blaming someone else for their problems?

No way. :P
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Re: Cholera Outbreak Hits Haiti, Nearly 200 Dead

Post by andygates » Sat Oct 30, 2010 6:59 pm

squinty wrote:How do aid workers stay sane?
Patience of Job, I imagine. I don't have it, that's for sure.
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Re: Cholera Outbreak Hits Haiti, Nearly 200 Dead

Post by MarylandFisherman » Mon Nov 01, 2010 11:54 am

So let me get this straight...

The "at risk" population of Haiti has the access and ability to text via cellphone, and yet couldn't figure out that they might need to drink clean water?

Sounds like somebody is confused about what is a priority and what isn't.

Just sayin'...
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Re: Cholera Outbreak Hits Haiti, Nearly 200 Dead

Post by squinty » Tue Nov 16, 2010 1:12 am

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-11761941" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Cholera Outbreak Hits Haiti, Nearly 200 Dead

Post by andygates » Tue Nov 16, 2010 2:47 pm

...and there's your thousand dead, twelve thousand treated: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/40216940/ns ... s_diseases" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Going back to the whole "they have cellphones" thing briefly: cellphones in the US and UK followed a traditional development path: telegraph and electricity and rail and plumbing and phones and so on. They started as a luxury and an addition to our landlines.

It's not the same in the third world (and Haiti is the third world). There, in many places, there's cell coverage but no landline, no electricity, none of that. Cellphones are a leapfrog technology. The phones themselves are pretty cheap and there's a thriving market in charging them and subletting them out. At the same time, a cellphone is so radically empowering that it's very, very attractive.

So yeah, folks can have cells without having proper sanitation, and it doesn't mean they're rich and holding out for handouts. Given the effectiveness of cells in the disaster response, it's an obvious good thing.
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Re: Cholera Outbreak Hits Haiti, Nearly 200 Dead

Post by Valarius » Wed Nov 17, 2010 2:37 pm

Another analogy might be: "The Iroquois absolutely ruled large parts of New England, until European colonists introduced alcohol and firearms to them. After much confusion and conflict the Iroquois were subdued."

Hence, cell phones and cholera.
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Re: Cholera Outbreak Hits Haiti, Nearly 200 Dead

Post by CitizenZ » Thu Nov 18, 2010 5:31 pm

Now it's spread to miami?


Simple hand washing, boiling water, well discipline and sewage control are not easy when you live under a blanket. A lesson this board should take to heart.
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Re: Cholera Outbreak Hits Haiti, Nearly 200 Dead

Post by phil_in_cs » Thu Nov 18, 2010 7:50 pm

No shortage of Haitians in Miami, but it won't spread here:

http://gawker.com/5692542/relax-people- ... et-cholera" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Cholera Outbreak Hits Haiti, Nearly 200 Dead

Post by Evan the Diplomat » Thu Nov 18, 2010 9:59 pm

I would like to point out that Haiti is heavily deforested and many refugees are eating no-cook or self heating rations. For those of you who have field experience with military self heating rations, think about how much extra heat there is for boiling water.

Next thing to keep in mind is that these miserable people are not drinking out of drainage ditches nor performing the unspeakable acts found in grown up videos from Germany. The most common means of transmission is by the hands. Imagine how many bacteria are in the tiniest drop of liquid shit that might have splashed on the edge of the outhouse, maybe it got on the wrist of the next guy. What about the door handle. Imagine if the clean water or hand sanitized was back at the tent. 30 -90 second of possible transmission.

Think about this, you use the clean and tidy public toilet at the local mall. You flush, wash you hands and as you grab the door handle to exit, it feels wet. Chances are that the person before you washed their hand and just didn't dry thoroughly. Or not.

Now are you an ignorant third world redneck fool, or just an unlucky guy who tried his best and was undone by a highly evolved bacteria.
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Re: Cholera Outbreak Hits Haiti, Nearly 200 Dead

Post by WhoShotJR » Thu Nov 18, 2010 10:40 pm

Evan the Diplomat wrote:I would like to point out that Haiti is heavily deforested and many refugees are eating no-cook or self heating rations. For those of you who have field experience with military self heating rations, think about how much extra heat there is for boiling water.

Do they not include hand sanitizer in these rations? Seems like enough of the liquid version to last a day or three would be a cheaper option in the long run than the associated health care/humanitarian costs of NOT including it.

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Re: Cholera Outbreak Hits Haiti, Nearly 200 Dead

Post by lo jack » Thu Nov 18, 2010 11:17 pm

I understand a huge amount of the resources and money donated has been stolen or mismanaged by Haiti's corrupt government officials.

It's sad that antibiotics and water could have saved those people.

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Re: Cholera Outbreak Hits Haiti, Nearly 200 Dead

Post by squinty » Fri Nov 19, 2010 4:41 am

Evan the Diplomat wrote:I would like to point out that Haiti is heavily deforested and many refugees are eating no-cook or self heating rations. For those of you who have field experience with military self heating rations, think about how much extra heat there is for boiling water.

Next thing to keep in mind is that these miserable people are not drinking out of drainage ditches nor performing the unspeakable acts found in grown up videos from Germany. The most common means of transmission is by the hands. Imagine how many bacteria are in the tiniest drop of liquid shit that might have splashed on the edge of the outhouse, maybe it got on the wrist of the next guy. What about the door handle. Imagine if the clean water or hand sanitized was back at the tent. 30 -90 second of possible transmission.

Think about this, you use the clean and tidy public toilet at the local mall. You flush, wash you hands and as you grab the door handle to exit, it feels wet. Chances are that the person before you washed their hand and just didn't dry thoroughly. Or not.

Now are you an ignorant third world redneck fool, or just an unlucky guy who tried his best and was undone by a highly evolved bacteria.
That's exactly the point I was trying to make about MRSA spreading through hospital wards. With a sink and "no touch" antibacterial soap dispenser in every room, and a "no touch" hand sanitizer in every room plus another on the wall just outside the door of every patient's room, latex gloves and impervious gowns that go on fresh for every patient and get discarded before moving on to the next patient, and vigorously enforced and encouraged hand hygiene, to the point where people lose their jobs if they are noticed skimping on the hand washing....the bacteria still spreads like crazy from patient to patient. I can only think hand hygiene and infection control is much harder in a country with crappy infrastructure (thanks to it's own corruption and mismanagement of resources, sure) to begin with, that was further scrambled up by a hurricane.

What kind of hygiene accoutrements do we have in our BOBs? How well would we be able to combat bacterial threats during a three or four day bugout?

ETA:
Now are you an ignorant third world redneck fool, or just an unlucky guy who tried his best and was undone by a highly evolved bacteria.


no, of course you're not ignorant or a fool at all. But maybe you didn't understand just how diligent you had to be - you could have dried the doorhandle, re-washed, and then used a clean paper towel to open on your way out the next time. But nobody does that, nobody with stuff to do takes that kind of time. Which I guess is your point, and mine as well, we seem to agree. How much harder if the water in that restroom doesn't run, or the water that comes out of the faucet wasn't properly treated or had come into contact with poop water, and actually contained the bacteria you're guarding against?
Last edited by squinty on Mon Nov 22, 2010 2:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Cholera Outbreak Hits Haiti, Nearly 200 Dead

Post by andygates » Fri Nov 19, 2010 2:13 pm

Norovirus. How contagious? One doorhandle. How sudden? One of our hospital visitors, feeling okay, was in the restaurant, sat down, and explosively shat and barfed everywhere. :shock: Yeah. She'll be doing that for 4-5 days. Meanwhile we had to close the restaurant and bleach the everloving hell out of everything nearby.

Cholera's kinda like that, only replace "4-5 days" with "until she gets antibiotics or craps herself to death". At least noro's self-limiting; cholera has no sense of proportion. Poopy party crasher!
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Re: Cholera Outbreak Hits Haiti, Nearly 200 Dead

Post by Evan the Diplomat » Fri Nov 19, 2010 5:24 pm

WhoShotJR wrote: Do they not include hand sanitizer in these rations? Seems like enough of the liquid version to last a day or three would be a cheaper option in the long run than the associated health care/humanitarian costs of NOT including it.
Honestly, I don't know. USAID -OFDR handles that, but I agree that these days it sounds pennywise and pound foolish not to, but I am unfamiliar with shelf-life, packaging requirements, cross contamination and airdropability of Purelle or other hand sanitizers.
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Re: Cholera Outbreak Hits Haiti, Nearly 200 Dead

Post by Cymro » Mon Nov 22, 2010 12:31 pm

I'm concerned about the response that the rest of the island (the Dominican Republic) is going to have to this. While the movement of refugees across the border is limited for now, I don't know that it'll stay that way.

http://latino.foxnews.com/latino/news/2 ... oss-price/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

There's a strong, and long running anti-Haitian sentiment in the DR, which has resulted in violence in the past when some folks got the feeling that there were too many Haitians on their side of the border.
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Re: Cholera Outbreak Hits Haiti, Nearly 200 Dead

Post by Valarius » Mon Nov 22, 2010 2:35 pm

What kind of hygiene accoutrements do we have in our BOBs? How well would we be able to combat bacterial threats during a three or four day bugout?
Apart from what's in my first aid kit, none whatsoever. I think I'll start by adding gloves and some Purell.
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Re: Cholera Outbreak Hits Haiti, Nearly 200 Dead

Post by phil_in_cs » Mon Nov 22, 2010 2:36 pm

Purell will help keep your hands clean, but doesn't help the water or food you need.
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Re: Cholera Outbreak Hits Haiti, Nearly 200 Dead

Post by Molon Labe » Mon Nov 22, 2010 2:45 pm

phil_in_cs wrote:Purell will help keep your hands clean, but doesn't help the water or food you need.
Fire, lots and lots of fire. Chlorine works too, but tends to break down in humid enviroments. If kept in powder or tablet form, keep sealed and vacuumed when not in use. Ziploc makes a vacuum sandwich bag that is perfect for this, even comes with a hand pump.
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Re: Cholera Outbreak Hits Haiti, Nearly 200 Dead

Post by squinty » Mon Nov 22, 2010 2:56 pm

For those who believe in vaccinations, is a good "travel" vaccination regime a worthwhile prep? Are there any third world/poverty related diseases we don't normally vaccinate for in the U.S., that likely to emerge in a protracted, infrastructure mashing disaster?
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Re: Cholera Outbreak Hits Haiti, Nearly 200 Dead

Post by andygates » Mon Nov 22, 2010 4:24 pm

Waddya know, there is a cholera vax: http://www.patient.co.uk/health/Cholera ... sation.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; -- but it's not all strains, and it's not a replacement for good hygiene.
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Re: Cholera Outbreak Hits Haiti, Nearly 200 Dead

Post by Valarius » Mon Nov 22, 2010 7:31 pm

@ Phil: I'm starting with Purell and gloves. Purification tablets will also be added.

WHO evaluated 18,382 patients and 1,110 deaths from cholera, as of November 17. It's in the PDF.

http://www.who.int/hac/crises/hti/en/index.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Cholera Outbreak Hits Haiti, Nearly 200 Dead

Post by Moana Drifter » Tue Nov 23, 2010 12:30 am

squinty wrote:For those who believe in vaccinations, is a good "travel" vaccination regime a worthwhile prep? Are there any third world/poverty related diseases we don't normally vaccinate for in the U.S., that likely to emerge in a protracted, infrastructure mashing disaster?
Typhoid, Hep A and B. The problem with cholera vaccines is that, like influenza, there's dozens of strains and any vaccine is designed for the outbreak du jour. With most third world diseases, you have to get immunity the old fashioned way (and I believe my dengue fever immunity has long since worn off).
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Re: Cholera Outbreak Hits Haiti, Nearly 200 Dead

Post by ninja-elbow » Tue Dec 07, 2010 3:49 pm

Over 2000 dead now and strain of cholera traced to Nepalese UN troops. They just can't get a frikkin' break down there.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-11943902" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Epidemiologist Renaud Piarroux conducted research in Haiti on behalf of the French and Haitian governments.

Sources who have seen his report say it found strong evidence that the cholera outbreak was caused by contamination of a river by UN troops from Nepal.

The UN said it had neither accepted nor dismissed the findings.

The cholera epidemic has killed 2120 people, and nearly 100,000 cases have been treated, according to the Haitian government.

The report by Mr Piarroux found that the source of the outbreak was a Nepalese peacekeeping base, whose toilets contaminated the Artibonite river, according to a copy seen by the Associated Press news agency.

The river was the main focus of the outbreak when it began in October, but cholera has since spread throughout the country.

The UN mission in Haiti, Minustah, said there was "no conclusive evidence" that UN peacekeepers were the source of the epidemic.

Minustah said the report by the French expert was "one report among many," but it was taking it "very seriously".

Many Haitians were already blaming the Nepalese peacekeepers for bringing cholera to the country, and there have been violent demonstrations against them.

Imported strain

The strain of cholera had already been matched to one from South Asia, although it is present in other Latin American countries.

In an interview last week, Mr Piarroux said it was clear cholera had been introduced to Haiti, which had not seen an outbreak of the disease for more than a century.

"It started in the centre of the country, not by the sea, nor in the refugee camps. The epidemic can't be of local origin. That's to say, it was imported," he told the French news agency, AFP.

UN peacekeepers have been in Haiti since 2004 to help restore political stability after years of unrest.

They have also been helping relief efforts following last January's massive earthquake, which killed about 230,000 people.
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Cholera Outbreak Hits Haiti, Nearly 200 Dead

Post by Bigwakes » Wed Dec 15, 2010 7:59 pm

I was in Haiti in July and will be back in February. Seeing the living conditions it was a ticking time bomb for some type of outbreak. It seems like education is the thing lacking, but how do you educate people without electricity? No TV, radio, most kids not in school. Seems like getting info to the masses is a big problem.

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