North Korea Saber Rattling

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Re: North Korea Saber Rattling

Post by Stercutus » Thu May 24, 2018 5:03 pm

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Re: North Korea Saber Rattling

Post by NamelessStain » Fri May 25, 2018 5:51 am

Here's a good post on reddit about Asian tradition of "saving face" and they discuss how this whole cancellation could be part of that tradition.

https://www.reddit.com/r/greatawakening ... save_face/
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Re: North Korea Saber Rattling

Post by MPMalloy » Sat May 26, 2018 9:51 am

From CNBC: White House spokesperson: Pre-advance team for US-North Korea summit in Singapore to leave as scheduled
By Christine Wang | @christiiineeee CNBC.com

The White House said its pre-advance team for the U.S.-North Korea summit will head to Singapore as scheduled.

White House press secretary Sarah Sanders said that the team will "prepare should the summit take place."

President Donald Trump and North Korean leader Kim Jong Un had been scheduled to meet face-to-face for the first time on June 12 in Singapore. But on Thursday, the president canceled the historic nuclear summit. Just a day later, Trump said that his administration had restarted dialogue with North Korea.

This story is developing. Please check back for updates.
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Re: North Korea Saber Rattling

Post by MPMalloy » Sat May 26, 2018 4:40 pm

From NPR: North And South Korean Leaders Hold Surprise Meeting
May 26, 20188:54 AM ET By Elise Hu

Updated 10:55 a.m. ET

Add another twist to a topsy-turvy week of diplomacy with North Korea. South Korea's presidential Blue House announced Saturday that earlier in the day, President Moon Jae-in held a secret meeting with North Korean leader, Kim Jong Un, in an effort to keep diplomacy between Washington and Pyongyang alive.

"The two leaders frankly exchanged their opinions on implementing the April 27 Panmunjom Declaration [which the two struck in April at their first historic summit] and for the successful staging of a U.S.-NK summit," Blue House spokesman Yoon Young-chan said.

This surprise meeting, on the North Korean side of the shared inter-Korean area of Panmunjom, comes after President Trump on Thursday abruptly scuttled a summit with Kim, planned for June 12 in Singapore. Trump cited "open hostility" from the North as his reason for backing out.

South Korea, a longtime U.S. ally, was not notified before Trump's letter canceling with Kim was made public. But Moon has continued in recent days to hope the summit still comes to pass.

Moon's office said a press conference is set for Sunday morning in Seoul. Photos released by the Blue House show Kim and Moon hugging and Kim's propaganda chief and sister, Kim Yo Jong, greeting Moon.

Saturday's meeting is only the fourth time — but the second in a month — that leaders from the North and South have met.

Meantime, White House press secretary Sarah Huckabee Sanders said that "the White House pre-advance team for Singapore will leave as scheduled in order to prepare should the summit take place."

The team, led by Deputy White House Chief of Staff Joe Hagin, was to go to Singapore this weekend to meet with a North Korean team to make plans for the June 12 summit.

NPR news assistant Se Eun Gong contributed to this post.
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Re: North Korea Saber Rattling

Post by raptor » Sun May 27, 2018 9:53 am

High-stakes business negotiations are rarely pleasant. In fact the real negotiations during a large business deal generally occur within the 24 hours right before any kind of signing final documents.

Both parties frequently use the "get up and walk out, the deal is off" method of negotiating.

No reason to assume this would be any different.

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Re: North Korea Saber Rattling

Post by flybynight » Sun May 27, 2018 9:57 am

Yea . it's just high stakes politics. like moves on a chessboard
As of now I bet you got me wrong

John Titor was right

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Re: North Korea Saber Rattling

Post by Stercutus » Sun May 27, 2018 5:38 pm

And the hokey-pokey dance continues.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018/05 ... n-dmz.html
President Trump said Sunday that U.S. officials had arrived in North Korea “for the Summit between Kim Jong Un and myself,” in perhaps the strongest indication that the much-anticipated meeting could be back on.
“Our United States team has arrived in North Korea to make arrangements for the Summit between Kim Jong Un and myself. I truly believe North Korea has brilliant potential and will be a great economic and financial Nation one day. Kim Jong Un agrees with me on this. It will happen!” Trump tweeted.
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Re: North Korea Saber Rattling

Post by teotwaki » Sun Jun 03, 2018 7:10 am

Stercutus wrote:And the hokey-pokey dance continues.
Dancing is better than a war any day.
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Re: North Korea Saber Rattling

Post by MPMalloy » Sun Jun 03, 2018 7:25 am

teotwaki wrote:
Stercutus wrote:And the hokey-pokey dance continues.
Dancing is better than a war any day.
I agree, but we have been stood up a number of times before....
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Re: North Korea Saber Rattling

Post by teotwaki » Sun Jun 03, 2018 8:28 am

MPMalloy wrote:
teotwaki wrote:
Stercutus wrote:And the hokey-pokey dance continues.
Dancing is better than a war any day.
I agree, but we have been stood up a number of times before....
worth the wait
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Re: North Korea Saber Rattling

Post by Stercutus » Sun Jun 03, 2018 7:41 pm

There is no rush. Trump maybe just nutty enough to pull it off.

Critics are now saying that the good faith destruction of the secret nuclear bomb facility was not all that.

https://nypost.com/2018/06/02/experts-d ... test-site/
The weak explosions on May 24 at entrances to the Punggye-ri test site deep beneath Mount Mantap did not trigger the internal collapses that would put the site out of commission, a U.S. official told CNN, based on seismic data.
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Re: North Korea Saber Rattling

Post by teotwaki » Mon Jun 04, 2018 2:40 pm

Stercutus wrote:There is no rush. Trump maybe just nutty enough to pull it off.

Critics are now saying that the good faith destruction of the secret nuclear bomb facility was not all that.

https://nypost.com/2018/06/02/experts-d ... test-site/
The weak explosions on May 24 at entrances to the Punggye-ri test site deep beneath Mount Mantap did not trigger the internal collapses that would put the site out of commission, a U.S. official told CNN, based on seismic data.

Those unnamed "critics" cited by the New York Compost are dummies. Even the journalists who attended the little fireworks show were unconvinced:
The journalists invited to Punggye-ri spent about about nine hours on the ground at the nuclear test site.
No weapons inspectors or nonproliferation experts were invited to witness the event, and it was unclear whether the explosions rendered the tunnels inoperable, or only caused limited damage.
https://www.cnn.com/2018/05/24/asia/nor ... index.html

Lots of pictures of that day are here: https://www.38north.org/2018/05/punggye052518/
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Re: North Korea Saber Rattling

Post by LowKey » Tue Jun 05, 2018 2:42 pm

teotwaki wrote:
Stercutus wrote:There is no rush. Trump maybe just nutty enough to pull it off.

Critics are now saying that the good faith destruction of the secret nuclear bomb facility was not all that.

https://nypost.com/2018/06/02/experts-d ... test-site/
The weak explosions on May 24 at entrances to the Punggye-ri test site deep beneath Mount Mantap did not trigger the internal collapses that would put the site out of commission, a U.S. official told CNN, based on seismic data.

Those unnamed "critics" cited by the New York Compost are dummies. Even the journalists who attended the little fireworks show were unconvinced:
The journalists invited to Punggye-ri spent about about nine hours on the ground at the nuclear test site.
No weapons inspectors or nonproliferation experts were invited to witness the event, and it was unclear whether the explosions rendered the tunnels inoperable, or only caused limited damage.
https://www.cnn.com/2018/05/24/asia/nor ... index.html

Lots of pictures of that day are here: https://www.38north.org/2018/05/punggye052518/
I'm reminded of Saddam burying MIGs and other military equipment in the desert simply by digging big holes and just backfilling with sand. This variation might be "collapse the entrance tunnels and clear them later"?


...and why do I have the feeling that Russian influence has been increasing in N.Korea?
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Re: North Korea Saber Rattling

Post by JT42 » Wed Jun 06, 2018 12:00 pm

teotwaki wrote:
MPMalloy wrote:
teotwaki wrote:
Stercutus wrote:And the hokey-pokey dance continues.
Dancing is better than a war any day.
I agree, but we have been stood up a number of times before....
worth the wait
Agreed. Much better than a shooting war.

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Re: North Korea Saber Rattling

Post by MPMalloy » Wed Jun 06, 2018 12:56 pm

JT42 wrote:Agreed. Much better than a shooting war.
True.
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Re: North Korea Saber Rattling

Post by NamelessStain » Mon Jun 11, 2018 10:21 am

ROFL, Kim is already out taking selfies with tourists!!!

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2018/06/11 ... s-say.html


I see a great future for a unified Korea!!
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Re: North Korea Saber Rattling

Post by Stercutus » Mon Jun 11, 2018 11:43 am

NamelessStain wrote:ROFL, Kim is already out taking selfies with tourists!!!

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2018/06/11 ... s-say.html


I see a great future for a unified Korea!!
Most NORKs dont even know he is there.
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Re: North Korea Saber Rattling

Post by NamelessStain » Mon Jun 11, 2018 11:44 am

Stercutus wrote:
NamelessStain wrote:ROFL, Kim is already out taking selfies with tourists!!!

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2018/06/11 ... s-say.html


I see a great future for a unified Korea!!
Most NORKs dont even know he is there.

Actually it was the entire front page of their national paper and the only story on their national broadcast, I'll see if I can find the link I saw it earlier.
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Re: North Korea Saber Rattling

Post by Stercutus » Tue Jun 12, 2018 11:31 am

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/white- ... im-n882246
Convinced that the establishment of new US-DPRK relations will contribute to the peace and prosperity of the Korean peninsula and of the world, and recognizing that mutual confidence building can promote the denuclearization of the Korean Peninsula, President Trump and Chairman Kim Jong Un state the following:

The United States and the DPRK commit to establish new US-DPRK relations in accordance with the desire of the peoples of the two countries for peace and prosperity

The United States and the DPRK will join their efforts to build a lasting and stable peace regime on the Korean Peninsula

Reaffirming the April 27, 2018 Panmunjom Declaration, the DPRK commits to work toward complete denuclearization of the Korean Peninsula

The United States and the DPRK commit to recovering POW/MIA remains, including the immediate repatriation of those already identified
In other news Trump announced that he was removing all US troops from South Korea and no longer participating in joint US-ROK military training exercises. No really.

Not stated but implied is the US recognition of DPRK as a country.
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Re: North Korea Saber Rattling

Post by LowKey » Tue Jun 12, 2018 4:21 pm

Stercutus wrote:
In other news Trump announced that he was removing all US troops from South Korea and no longer participating in joint US-ROK military training exercises. No really.

Not stated but implied is the US recognition of DPRK as a country.
I wonder if that might not be a bad idea.
With the amount of (admittedly crappy) NORK artillery assets targeting the high population areas in S. Korea I'm not sure what shape troops on the ground would be in after the opening salvo. I have never been boots on the ground there so I may have a wildly inaccurate idea of how hardened our barracks and motor pools there are, but I don't imagine they'd do well.
If my assumption about that is correct, then having land assets in the region (Guam, Okinawa, maybe someday again Philippines, ect) which could be quickly deployed while we utilized air and naval assets would be a better plan?
Not to mention the troops and $$$ this should free up for other more serious (to the US) threats elsewhere?
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Re: North Korea Saber Rattling

Post by Stercutus » Tue Jun 12, 2018 4:31 pm

He said there was no time line in the works. I take everything the current POTUS says with an entire salt mine.
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Re: North Korea Saber Rattling

Post by woodsghost » Tue Jun 12, 2018 5:03 pm

Stercutus wrote:He said there was no time line in the works. I take everything the current POTUS says with an entire salt mine.
I think the right word would be "fluid," with the president's actions being dependent on the actions of others. And I expect things to take some years to finish, while I hope sanctions are kept high until full results are achived. I think that is working nicely. I also think the charm offensive from Trump is working in a carrot/stick fashion with the sanctions. Time will tell what the results are, but I think chances are better now than ever before.

Also, I think there is a lot of "theater" with Trump. I think there is consistency of thought and goals, but who is a friend, who is an enemy, what is he doing, all that is constantly in flux. It is like a soap opera in fast forward. Or watching the Kardashians. It is not for those with high blood pressure. It seems to make more sense if digested one day a week rather than 7 days a week.

JMHO.
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Re: North Korea Saber Rattling

Post by Stercutus » Tue Jun 12, 2018 5:15 pm

I think the change in the cast at the WH might have had a bit to do with it as well. Steve Bannon in particular came in a little Hawkish and then came to the realization that a military solution was simply too costly with well publicized public statements to that effect. Couple that with the goodwill from the Olympics, a contrast of North-South living conditions and suddenly peace looks good to everyone.
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Re: North Korea Saber Rattling

Post by teotwaki » Tue Jun 12, 2018 11:09 pm

Stercutus wrote:Most NORKs dont even know he is there.
Don't read much besides Bloomberg's reports? Try https://kcnawatch.co/

It is well known that NORK State controlled Media waits until major events end to publish its first reports. Example: News that U.S. Secretary of State Mike Pompeo had visited North Korea and a big photo of him shaking Kim's hand appeared on the front page of the ruling party newspaper, the Rodong Sinmun, the following day.

________________________________________________________________________________________

Or look at more Western news sources

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/ ... visit-kcna

Kim Jong-un hailed victor in 'meeting of century' by North Korean media

Supreme leader credited with creating conditions for peace as South Korea and Japan voice security concerns

In its first report on the summit, the official KCNA news agency offered a glowing account of the talks, name-checking Kim 16 times.

The front page of the ruling workers’ party newspaper, the Rodong Sinmun, meanwhile, ran photographs of Kim warmly shaking hands with Trump. It said the “meeting of the century” was held to bring an end to “extreme, hostile relations” between the countries.

KCNA said the talks were “epoch-making” and would help foster “a radical switchover in the most hostile [North Korea]-US relations”.

It credited Kim with creating the conditions for peace and stability on the Korean peninsula.
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