North Korea Saber Rattling

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Re: North Korea Saber Rattling

Post by squinty » Wed Dec 21, 2011 1:45 am

raptor wrote:Now comes the wailing and gnashing of teeth for Kim Jung Dead. (He is not il and more. He is dead :D)


These photos make me feel very sad for these people. This is true emotion not contrived acting. They miss and morn a loved one... A "loved one" who starved and killed them and micromanaged their lives. :(
Millions wept and mourned Stalin, too. I find it scary.
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Re: North Korea Saber Rattling

Post by ei8htx » Wed Dec 21, 2011 4:14 am

Pineslayer wrote:Maybe we could trade Lindsay Lohan to the kid for peace on the pennisula, she owes us. Lots of good info here, thanks.
Whoh, dude. Whoh. Why you gotta bring Lindsay Lohan into this?

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Yahoo - Reuters: N.Korea military, uncle to share power with Kim heir
North Korea will shift to collective rule from a strongman dictatorship after last week's death of Kim Jong-il, although his untested young son will be at the head of the ruling coterie, a source with close ties to Pyongyang and Beijing said.

The source added that the military, which is trying to develop a nuclear arsenal, has pledged allegiance to the untested Kim Jong-un, who takes over the family dynasty that has ruled North Korea since it was founded after World War Two.

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Re: North Korea Saber Rattling

Post by SeerSavant » Wed Dec 21, 2011 11:22 pm

What the future holds for the Korean Peninsula remains to be seen, but on whole, it's hard to find a downside to the loss of such a man.

His shoes will be hard to fill, for they were small and had between 4 and 6 inch lifts.

But with luck, a stiff drink of two year old Hennessy stock, Kim Jong Un - likelytomanagehisownfartsinabathtub, might actually be up to the task...






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Re: North Korea Saber Rattling

Post by DarkAxel » Thu Dec 22, 2011 12:40 am

I've read a few news articles that state Kim Jong Un is sharing power with others.

Links : http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... uncle.html

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/12/ ... FX20111222.

This post reports that a source thinks Kim Jong Un is in control of the military: http://us.cnn.com/2011/12/21/world/asia ... ?hpt=hp_t2

If the DPRK is truly going to a collective rule, I think they will try to maintain the status quo. I even think the rattling of the ol' saber might quiet down a bit, although i realize that the worst-case may be a nuclear launch on the RoK or Japan. Predicting what a single individual would do is much harder than predicting what a collective would do.

If the "Great Successor" really does have control of the military, then he showed some balls by ordering them to stand down when the South is going on alert, along with just about every military unit in theater.
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Re: North Korea Saber Rattling

Post by raptor » Thu Dec 22, 2011 11:10 am

DarkAxel wrote: If the "Great Successor" really does have control of the military, then he showed some balls by ordering them to stand down when the South is going on alert, along with just about every military unit in theater.
If you notice in the article it said he gave order before the announcement of Kim Jong Dead's demise. He did this to get the army back in their barracks where they could be better controlled by their political officers and prevent any possibility of a coup. That IMO is fear of the military and not courage.

Kim Jong UnpreDICKtable appears to be sharing power to placate the power factions until he can solidify control with his own puppets. The most dangerous time will be during this transition.

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Re: North Korea Saber Rattling

Post by TC » Sun Dec 25, 2011 4:38 pm

Reuters wrote: North Korean power-behind-throne emerges as neighbours meet

(Reuters) - North Korean television Sunday showed power-behind-the-throne Jang Song-thaek in the uniform of a general in a sign of his growing sway after the death of Kim Jong-il, and Japan's prime minister said the region faced a new phase with Kim's demise.

Footage that North Korean television said was shot on Saturday showed Jang on the frontrow of top military officers who accompanied Kim Jong-un, the youngest son of Kim Jong-il and his anointed successor, paying their respects before Kim's body.

The choreography around Kim's death is one of the secretive North's few, opaque clues to the emerging configuration of power in this poor and isolated state that has rattled neighbours with nuclear tests and military brinkmanship.

A Seoul official familiar with North Korea affairs said it was the first time Jang has been shown on state television in a military uniform. His appearance suggested that Jang has secured a key role in the North's powerful military, which has pledged its allegiance to Kim Jong-un.

North Korea announced Monday Kim Jong-il had died of a heart attack on December 17. His body is lying in state in a mausoleum in Pyongyang. He was believed to be 69.

Kim Jong-un was hailed by state media Saturday as "supreme commander" of the North's 1.1 million-strong armed forces, the title held by his father.

A senior source told Reuters this week Pyongyang will shift from a strongman dictatorship to a coterie of rulers including the military and Jang, Kim Jong-un's uncle.

Jang married the daughter of the country's revolutionary founder, Kim Il-sung, in 1972, joining the ruling family that has forged its own form of dynastic rule...(continued at link)
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Re: North Korea Saber Rattling

Post by SiXiam » Tue Dec 27, 2011 2:01 am

This transition is actually very boring! :gonk:

At this rate it's going to be months before we find out if anythings going to change.

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Re: North Korea Saber Rattling

Post by TC » Tue Dec 27, 2011 4:56 am

SiXiam wrote:This transition is actually very boring! :gonk:

At this rate it's going to be months before we find out if anythings going to change.
Some of us are quite happy with boring, thanks!
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Re: North Korea Saber Rattling

Post by Horatio_Tyllis » Tue Dec 27, 2011 12:18 pm

I'll take a slow, boring, orderly change over NBC attacks any day.
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Re: North Korea Saber Rattling

Post by TC » Tue Dec 27, 2011 6:42 pm

Reuters wrote: Funeral for North Korean leader amid worry about future

(Reuters) - North Korea will hold a funeral procession on Wednesday for its deceased "dear leader", Kim Jong-il, making way for his son, Kim Jong-un, to become the third member of the family to run the isolated and unpredictable Asian country.

The coming year was supposed to mark North Korea's self-proclaimed transformation into a "strong and prosperous" nation, but it faces a dangerous transition to a young, untested leader at a time when dictatorships across the world have tumbled.

The pomp, show of military might and weeping crowds at the funeral will likely mirror the 1994 funeral procession for Kim's father, Kim Il-Sung, the first of the family to rule.

Similarly, it would seem that little is set to change in a country that has staged what many analysts have dubbed a "Great March Backwards" over the last 20 years.

Strong it may be - North Korea is backed by neighbouring China, has conducted two nuclear tests and has ambitions to become a nuclear power and boasts a 1.2 million-strong armed forces - but prosperous it is not.

On average, North Koreans die three-and-a-half years earlier than they did when "Eternal President" Kim Il-sung died, according to U.N. data.

The North is one of the most closed and poorest societies on earth, ranking 194 out of 227 countries in terms of per capita wealth, according to the CIA World Factbook.

The United Nations, in a country programme for 2011-15, says North Korea's main challenge is to "restore the economy to the level attained before 1990" and to alleviate food shortages for a third of its 25 million-strong population.

Indications from the transition since Kim Jong-il's death on December 17 suggest the father's hardline "military first" policy will continue, leading to further hardship in a country that endured mass starvation in the 1990s.

Leverage from outside, with the exception of China, is limited so all the United States, South Korea and Japan can do is hope that the regime does not collapse, nor flex its military muscle as it did in 2010, when it shelled a South Korean island.

"So far, there is little reason to expect policy changes given that the leadership hierarchy is basically the same with the exception that Kim Jong-un is replacing Kim Jong-il," said Scott Snyder, a senior fellow for Korea Studies at Council on Foreign Relations, a U.S. thinktank.

HALO FADES

North Korea was established in 1948 and under its founding father, Kim Il-sung, went to war to try to conquer the South. It failed and in 1953 a dividing line that would become the world's most militarised frontier was drawn across the peninsula.

While Kim Il-sung was revered by his people for fighting Japanese colonial rule, the halo surrounding his successors has steadily dimmed to such an extent that his grandson, the new ruler, will have to rely on people such as his uncle, Jang Song-thaek, to hold on to power, at least in the short term.

"The outlook for stability is not good, because Kim Jong-un's succession is very different from Kim Jong-il's," said Jia Qingguo, a professor of international relations at Peking University.

"Kim Il-sung was the country's founding father with an extraordinary career and a great deal of personal authority, so when he transferred power to his son, his son assumed quite a lot of authority."

Official media in the North have built Kim Jong-un, a jowly and rotund man in his late 20s, into a leader worthy of inheriting the crown, naming him "respected general", "great successor", "outstanding leader" and "supreme commander".

This year, dissident groups based in South Korea, citing North Korean refugees and businessmen working in China, linked the youngest Kim to a crackdown on business activities and a tougher policy on people seeking to flee from North Korea.

Those reports could not be independently verified, but would again suggest that further repression is more likely than an economic opening under the new man.

It also gives little hope for the 200,000 North Koreans who human rights group Amnesty international says are enslaved in labour camps over some infringement, subjected to torture and hunger or execution.

"here is likely to be a politically motivated purge and imprisonment, and it could go on for a considerable period of time," said Pak Sang-hak, who heads a group in Seoul working to support defectors, and is himself a defector.

"That is especially because of the relative instability of Kim Jong-un's leadership. There might also be persecution as a way of intimidation and discipline."
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Re: North Korea Saber Rattling

Post by TC » Fri Dec 30, 2011 4:05 am

BBC wrote: North Korea tells world to 'expect no change'

North Korea has told the international community not to "expect any change" in the wake of Kim Jong-il's death.

The message came in a statement carried by state media and attributed to the powerful National Defence Commission.

"We declare solemnly and confidently that the foolish politicians around the world, including the puppet group in South Korea, should not expect any change from us," it said.

Kim Jong-il died on 17 December of a heart attack, state media said.

He had ruled North Korea since the death of his father Kim Il-sung in 1994. Under him funds were channelled to the military and North Korea conducted two nuclear tests.

His son, Kim Jong-un, has been named "supreme leader of the party, state and army".

'Unforgivable'

North Korea's neighbours are watching to see whether the leadership change will affect Pyongyang's ties with the international community.

The impoverished communist state remains technically at war with South Korea and is isolated on the international stage because of its dire human rights record and pursuit of nuclear weapons.

Six-nation talks aimed at ending Pyongyang's nuclear ambitions - involving the two Koreas, China, the US, Russia and Japan - have been stalled for months.

The statement from the NDC - which is thought to be the country's top decision-making body - said North Korea would "never deal" with South Korean leader Lee Myung-bak.

Mr Lee has angered Pyongyang by linking the provision of aid to progress on denuclearisation.

The NDC also criticised Seoul's "unforgivable" decision to allow only two non-official delegations to cross the border to pay their respects to Mr Kim.

Diplomatic flurry

Amid regional concern, the US is to send one of its top diplomats to East Asia to discuss the situation in North Korea.

Kurt Campbell will hold talks in Beijing, Seoul and Tokyo from 3-7 January, the State Department said.

Mr Campbell, who is the Assistant Secretary for East Asian and Pacific Affairs, will be the most senior US official to visit the region since Kim Jong-il died.

The US and South Korean defence chiefs, meanwhile, spoke for 20 minutes about issues on the Korean peninsula on Thursday.

The two "shared the view that peace and stability on the Korean peninsula is our overarching priority and agreed to maintain close co-operation and co-ordination in the weeks and months ahead", the Pentagon said in a statement.

On Thursday North Korea held a national memorial service for Kim Jong-il, ending the period of mourning.

Hundreds of thousands of North Korean troops and citizens lined up for the ceremony in Pyongyang's main square.

Top party and military officials hailed Kim Jong-un, the young and politically inexperienced new leader, in front of the huge crowd.
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Re: North Korea Saber Rattling

Post by TC » Sun Jan 01, 2012 5:46 pm

The Telegraph wrote: North Korea vows to bolster military in New Year message

North Korea vowed to make an all-out drive for prosperity in 2012 and called for the people to defend their new leader "unto death" in its New Year message.

The pledge comes during a time of transition to the leadership of Kim Jong-un following the death of his father Kim Jong-il on Dec 17.

A joint editorial of three major newspapers said North Korea's 1.1 million-strong military would be bolstered and food shortages would be addressed. This year, North Koreans will become citizens of "a mighty and prosperous nation".

"Glorify this year 2012 as a year of proud victory, a year when an era of prosperity is unfolding," said the New Year's message. "The whole party, the entire army and all the people should possess a firm conviction that they will become human bulwarks and human shields in defending Kim Jong-un unto death."

On the streets of Pyongyang, the mood was more sombre than in past New Year's celebrations, as people gathered in large crowds to pay tribute to Kim Jong-il, who ruled the country for 17 years.

This New Year's message didn't include the North's routine harsh criticism of the United States and avoided the country's nuclear ambitions, a suggestion that Pyongyang may be willing to continue talks with Washington to win food aid...(continued at link)
This was also a pretty interesting article: Who is the real Kim Jong-un? Diplomats fret over North Korea's portly new leader and party officials fear a purge
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Re: North Korea Saber Rattling

Post by raptor » Sun Jan 01, 2012 6:07 pm

That is a good link. Thanks.

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Re: North Korea Saber Rattling

Post by SiXiam » Sun Jan 01, 2012 6:28 pm

I don't like boring, especially if it turns into a mini-cold war.
I wanna know what they are going to do.

Reunification may be a pipe dream, but I would like to see a return to the six-party talks.
I like seeing China act like the responsible adult! :)

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Re: North Korea Saber Rattling

Post by SeerSavant » Sun Jan 01, 2012 10:10 pm

From the article... Thanks TC, I get the impression of a hand grenade with the pin pulled...

This has all the earmarks of a bad shakespeare adaptation... :shock:
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Re: North Korea Saber Rattling

Post by TC » Mon Jan 02, 2012 3:02 pm

Interesting to get some comment from the ROK government:
BBC wrote: Two Koreas 'at a turning point' says South president

The Korean peninsula is at a "turning point" and there are opportunities for change, South Korean President Lee Myung-bak said in a new year speech.

He said Seoul would "respond strongly" if provoked by North Korea, with whom it remains technically at war.

But he said that the biggest goal was stability, and that aid-for-disarmament talks could resume if Pyongyang halted its nuclear activities...

...In a nationally televised address, Lee Myung-bak said that peace was his priority and that a "window of opportunity" had opened for better ties with the North.

"The situation on the Korean peninsula is now entering a new turning point," he said. "But there should be a new opportunity amid changes and uncertainty."

South Korea would, however, "thoroughly maintain national security as long as there is a possibility of provocation by the North", he added...(continued at link)
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Re: North Korea Saber Rattling

Post by TC » Sun Jan 08, 2012 1:14 pm

The Telegraph wrote: Kim Jong-un celebrates birthday by driving a tank

Kim Jong-un, the new leader of North Korea, may have celebrated his birthday on Sunday, but such is the secrecy surrounding him, no one is sure whether he turned 28, 29 or 30 years old.

If it was his birthday, he marked the occasion by driving a tank and showing off his military prowess.

South Korean intelligence experts believe the younger Kim, who succeeded his father, Kim Jong-il, as North Korea's "Supreme Commander" just before Christmas, was born on January 8.

The date was pinpointed using testimonies from Kenji Fujimoto, a Japanese chef who worked for the Kim family, North Korean defectors and Kim's childhood friends at the Liebefeld school in Bern, Switzerland, where he briefly studied as a teenager.

However there were few signs of celebration yesterday in Pyongyang.

North Korea used to treat the birthdays of Kim's father and grandfather as national holidays, throwing extravagant festivals and handing out presents to the public.

But there were no special events to mark the youngest Kim's birthday, which was also not marked in public calendars, which would have been printed before his elevation.

At the Kaesong Industrial park, a complex on the border between North and South Korea where some 48,000 North Koreans work, a normal weekend shift took place.

Yang Moo-jin, an expert at the University of North Korean Studies in Seoul, told the Korea Times newspaper that the date might not have been celebrated because "Kim's grip on power is not firm yet". He added, however, that North Korea may still be in mourning for Kim Jong-il, making a celebration inappropriate.

However, the new leader was praised in a documentary on North Korean television on Sunday as "the genius among the geniuses" in military strategy. The programme showed him driving a tank and giving orders to artillery, naval and air force troops. Other images showed him observing fighter jets and firing exercises, as well as posing for photographs with soldiers.

It added that he wrote his first thesis on military strategy at the age of 16 and was the "spitting image" of his father and grandfather.

"The respected comrade Kim Jong-Un is perfectly versed in all military strategies and [ ...] displays excellent military leadership," said the film, over images of soldiers jumping in joy at seeing Kim on field trips.

The film also said the younger Kim had been present in April 2009 when the North staged an intercontinental ballistic missile launch.
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Re: North Korea Saber Rattling

Post by GP11 » Mon Jan 09, 2012 1:51 pm

SiXiam wrote:I don't like boring, especially if it turns into a mini-cold war.
I wanna know what they are going to do.
It's already a miniature cold war. As long as it doesn't get hot, I think we can consider it a successful transition of power.
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Re: North Korea Saber Rattling

Post by phil_in_cs » Mon Jan 09, 2012 1:55 pm

GP11 wrote:
SiXiam wrote:I don't like boring, especially if it turns into a mini-cold war.
I wanna know what they are going to do.
It's already a miniature cold war. As long as it doesn't get hot, I think we can consider it a successful transition of power.
NK is stuck in the 1950s. The cold war never ended (as the Korean War never ended).

As GP11 says, as long as it is cold and not hot things aren't getting worse. Missiles fired into the ocean are one thing; missiles fired into Seoul or Tokyo are another.
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Re: North Korea Saber Rattling

Post by TC » Sat Jan 28, 2012 9:12 am

The Telegraph wrote: North Korea threatens to punish mobile-phone users as 'war criminals'

North Korea has warned that any of its citizens caught trying to defect to China or using mobile phones during the 100-day mourning period for Kim Jong-il will be branded as "war criminals" and punished accordingly.

There are reports from within the isolated state that food supplies are again dwindling and that there has been an increase in the number of people attempting to cross the border into China. Many of those that do manage to cross the frontier eventually manage to reach South Korea, where an estimated 23,000 defectors have now settled.

The Workers' Party has issued the stern warning in an effort to deter more from attempting the already perilous journey, apparently in an effort to ensure the stability of the new regime of Kim Jong-un, who took over from his father, according to Good Friends, a South Korean relief group.

People who are caught attempting to flee the poverty and political oppression in the North, as well as those detained in China and sent back over the border, usually end up in the North's network of hard labour camps, human rights groups have reported, while repeat offenders can expect to be executed.

Kim Jong-il died on December 17 after suffering a heart attack that North Korean media has reported was brought on by overwork. He was 69.

The regime has been weakened by years of economic mismanagement and stagnation and there are apparently fears in Pyongyang that the death of Kim could trigger public unrest.

Any discontent would be encouraged by reports sent into the country by mobile phone about conditions outside North Korea, as well as coverage of the popular uprisings in the Middle East last year that toppled long-ruling dictators.

The Eurasia Group, the US-based research and consulting firm, has this week identified North Korea as the fifth-biggest threat to international stability in the world in 2012.

In a report, the firm said a "lack of information about events" in North Korea and its new leader is a risk that is being "severely underplayed."
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Re: North Korea Saber Rattling

Post by Valarius » Fri Feb 10, 2012 1:50 pm

Breaking News: Chinese twitter service Weibo reporting Kim Jong-Un may have been assassinated

http://gawker.com/5884033/chinese-twitt ... in-beijing" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


Who the hell stands to gain from spreading this kind of rumor?
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Re: North Korea Saber Rattling

Post by razi » Fri Feb 10, 2012 3:08 pm

Here's a Reuters link with more information.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/02/ ... 9920120210" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

It's still a rumor, of course, but one theory is assassination + coup. Let's hope it's just a rumor. Who would benefit from the rumor and why is a good question. Maybe it's a (not so) subtle way of the Chinese government trying to keep Junior in line?
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Re: North Korea Saber Rattling

Post by Frosty709 » Fri Feb 10, 2012 3:20 pm

Very interesting. I'll be keeping an eye on this.
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Re: North Korea Saber Rattling

Post by razi » Mon Feb 13, 2012 3:12 pm

So far it looks like just another internet rumor.
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