North Korea Saber Rattling

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North Korea Saber Rattling

Post by dkhoward » Mon Mar 09, 2009 1:18 pm

NK approaches the next test launch of its long range ballistic missile, cleverly disguised as a satellite launch. Threatens SK with war if ANY country tries to intercept the missle. The launch is in violation of at least one treaty and may violate others. US says no intention of intercepting missle. Funny that the US and SK are conducting joint defensive war games at this time as well. Bears watching.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,506843,00.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: North Korea Saber Rattling

Post by raptor » Mon Mar 09, 2009 1:25 pm

[quote="dkhoward"] Funny that the US and SK are conducting joint defensive war games at this time as well. Bears watching.

Great double entendre; the Russian Bear is truly watching this also.

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Re: North Korea Saber Rattling

Post by Maeklos » Mon Mar 09, 2009 5:26 pm

raptor wrote: Great double entendre; the Russian Bear is truly watching this also.
Yeah, but why? I haven't really been keeping good tabs on what Russia is up to at the moment, but I imagined it constituted something like this:

The Kremlin: "HOLY FUCK! Our country is falling apart!"

Vladimir Putin: "Shut up, you pussies! Throw more money into our newly-built furnace of delicious capitalism! It's snowing and my nuts are cold!"

I can see Russia trying to manipulate any altercation (militarily, technologically, economically, et al) in the region for their own purposes, but what purposes might those be?
Politics is like having two handfuls of shit - one that smells bad and one that looks bad - and having to decide which one to put in your mouth.

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Re: North Korea Saber Rattling

Post by raptor » Mon Mar 09, 2009 6:03 pm

Maeklos wrote:
raptor wrote: Great double entendre; the Russian Bear is truly watching this also.
Yeah, but why? I haven't really been keeping good tabs on what Russia is up to at the moment, but I imagined it constituted something like this:

The Kremlin: "HOLY FUCK! Our country is falling apart!"

Vladimir Putin: "Shut up, you pussies! Throw more money into our newly-built furnace of delicious capitalism! It's snowing and my nuts are cold!"

I can see Russia trying to manipulate any altercation (militarily, technologically, economically, et al) in the region for their own purposes, but what purposes might those be?
:lol: That is great. :lol:

Russia probably could give a rats ass about NK but just as we would interested in anything close to our border, say like Mexico. We would be watching this carefully if for no other reason to fuck with the USSR...er Russia.

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Re: North Korea Saber Rattling

Post by dkhoward » Mon Mar 09, 2009 6:40 pm

Since this is my thread I will hijack it . .

Raptor. . . . fill me in on your flag? It is interesting and I like the design . . any significance?
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Re: North Korea Saber Rattling

Post by razi » Mon Mar 09, 2009 6:59 pm

be funny if that satellite crash landed somewhere in China or Russia.

Speaking of, I wonder what would happen if China shot that rocket down?
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Re: North Korea Saber Rattling

Post by dkhoward » Mon Mar 09, 2009 7:03 pm

I think it would be funny if it fell on Kim's palace while he was watching the launch on TV
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Re: North Korea Saber Rattling

Post by mad scientist » Mon Mar 09, 2009 7:04 pm

razi wrote:Speaking of, I wonder what would happen if China shot that rocket down?
If that happend, NK would demand more food and energy be given to it by the US! Otherwise, they're going to rattle their sabre even louder!! And you dont want that... :lol:
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Re: North Korea Saber Rattling

Post by dkhoward » Mon Mar 09, 2009 7:09 pm

you know. . that saber must be pretty rusty after more than 50 years of rattling around
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Re: North Korea Saber Rattling

Post by Monklicous » Tue Mar 10, 2009 9:28 am

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Re: North Korea Saber Rattling

Post by dkhoward » Tue Mar 10, 2009 9:42 am

One thing to remember, the US and SK have been doing this same set of exercises every year for the past 40 or so years. Every year the NKs compain threaten and rattle the rusty saber. Im not saying they won't do something stupid. Basically, no one is sure who is in charge in the North. They basically import everything they use in quantity. I think they are on the last nerve of their trading partner China because they threaten the quasi-capitalism of the CHinese.
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Re: North Korea Saber Rattling

Post by Lynxian » Tue Mar 10, 2009 10:19 am

Monklicous wrote:"North Korea on Monday cut its military hotline to Seoul and put its million-man army at battle stations, ratcheting up tensions as South Korean and US troops began war games that Pyongyang warned could spark open conflict."

............................................................
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/d5d6fd4a-0c60 ... fd2ac.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Yeah, they've got a lot of troops. They've had so for decades. I believe that, if they call up reserves, their number will equal the Chinese armed forces. But, I'm far more curious with what they're armed. Since, as far as I know, they don't exactly have a whole lot of import going in and don't have enough resources to build decent weaponry. China might supply them but... with what will they pay China? In underfed, indoctrinated women?
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Re: North Korea Saber Rattling

Post by Maeklos » Tue Mar 10, 2009 10:27 am

Lynxian wrote:But, I'm far more curious with what they're armed.
Modified and updated T-62s are what they crew in the way of armor. Otherwise known as the "ubiquitous burning hulk" seen frequently scattered about Kuwait and Iraq after the last two wars. The rest of equipment to match.
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Re: North Korea Saber Rattling

Post by Lynxian » Tue Mar 10, 2009 10:33 am

Maeklos wrote:
Lynxian wrote:But, I'm far more curious with what they're armed.
Modified and updated T-62s are what they crew in the way of armor. Otherwise known as the "ubiquitous burning hulk" seen frequently scattered about Kuwait and Iraq after the last two wars. The rest of equipment to match.
Well, in that case the North Korean generals better be experts in the ways of guerrilla warfare, otherwise that'll end in grande decimation. On the bright side, human right watch organizations will probably take NK's side and proclaim that the allies are 'excessively bombing the already needy North Koreans'. I predict it to be true! (Slight sarcasm implied! ;))
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Re: North Korea Saber Rattling

Post by Cybrludite » Thu Mar 12, 2009 7:12 am

Lynxian wrote:Yeah, they've got a lot of troops. They've had so for decades. I believe that, if they call up reserves, their number will equal the Chinese armed forces. But, I'm far more curious with what they're armed. Since, as far as I know, they don't exactly have a whole lot of import going in and don't have enough resources to build decent weaponry. China might supply them but... with what will they pay China? In underfed, indoctrinated women?
(Oafish note to self: See about selling arms to North Korea... :mrgreen: ) Let's put it this way, the latest patrol boat the North Korean navy has fielded has the turrets of WWII vintage T-34/85 medium tanks mounted as deck guns. As far as rifles go, Mosin-Nagants, SKS clones (Type 63), AK-47 (Type 58) and AKM (Type-68) clones. No, I don't know why they decided to start building the SKS after they already were making the AK-47. For tanks, Chinese T-54 clones (Type-59), the aforementioned T-62, a domestically built modified T-62 clone (Ch'ŏnma-ho), and T-72s, and some reserve units still use the T-34s. APCs are mostly 1960s era Chinese junk and a limited number of BMP-1s. Their Airforce uses mostly 1950s and 1960s Soviet & Chinese fighters & medium bombers. About all they have going for them are numbers and the possibility of nukes.
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Re: North Korea Saber Rattling

Post by Maeklos » Fri Mar 13, 2009 9:39 am

Looks like Japan is threatening to shoot down North Korea's satellite.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/asiapcf/0 ... =rss_world" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Will they do it? I hope so. And then have N. Korea turn around and declare war on Japan. I want to see some JDF mecha smoking massive cigars tearing around N. Korea on thrusters and blasting the crap out of Kim's antique replica army.
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Re: North Korea Saber Rattling

Post by frath0 » Fri Mar 13, 2009 1:49 pm

Well, if nothing else, it gives the US a way "out" of sorts - granted, it will be our equipment and probably our troops manning the patriot batteries or wtf-ever is needed to shoot it down, but if Japan claims to do it, let's see NK try some stupid shit like declaring war on Japan. They're already starving, stupid and threadbare - hell, what was Sam Kinison's quote: "Hell, Col. Sanders can win THIS war!" Granted, he was referring to Gulf War I, but NK's army and population are in worse shape than Saddam's.
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Re: North Korea Saber Rattling

Post by TheGunslinger » Sun Mar 15, 2009 9:55 pm

It wouldn't be just a declaration of war against Japan, though, it would be against South Korea as well.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again - Kim is a master of brinkmanship. He keeps playing on the edge, because he knows that people will give him what he wants. There is virtually no liklihood that people will swap the liklihood of him shelling Seoul in exchange for a satellite launch.

I mean, yeah, the US would go through NK like a fat kid through a box of Krispey Kreme's, but at the expense of probably tens of thousands of South Korean (and North Korean) lives.

If it was possible (and it's not) I'd say evacuate Seoul, go straight in an knock the head of Kim's regime and then re-unify the two Korea's. That's not possible, though and not in the least because South Korea don't really want to be responsible for millions of poor impoverished brain-washed North Koreans. Nor do I blame them, really.

The difference between East and West Germany is still apparent in some ways - I'd shudder to think what it would do to South Korea's already ravaged economy to have to rebuild the northern part of the country. It might be a catalyst for jobs etc, but I think that would probably be outweighed by the shanty towns and rise in crime that would come with it.
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Re: North Korea Saber Rattling

Post by BeerandGuns » Sun Mar 15, 2009 10:12 pm

TheGunslinger wrote:It wouldn't be just a declaration of war against Japan, though, it would be against South Korea as well.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again - Kim is a master of brinkmanship. He keeps playing on the edge, because he knows that people will give him what he wants. There is virtually no liklihood that people will swap the liklihood of him shelling Seoul in exchange for a satellite launch.

I mean, yeah, the US would go through NK like a fat kid through a box of Krispey Kreme's, but at the expense of probably tens of thousands of South Korean (and North Korean) lives.

If it was possible (and it's not) I'd say evacuate Seoul, go straight in an knock the head of Kim's regime and then re-unify the two Korea's. That's not possible, though and not in the least because South Korea don't really want to be responsible for millions of poor impoverished brain-washed North Koreans. Nor do I blame them, really.

The difference between East and West Germany is still apparent in some ways - I'd shudder to think what it would do to South Korea's already ravaged economy to have to rebuild the northern part of the country. It might be a catalyst for jobs etc, but I think that would probably be outweighed by the shanty towns and rise in crime that would come with it.
Kim also has China standing behind him. China does not want a democratic Korea on its border. I think a lot of his bluster comes from knowing this. China has occasionally told him to STFU. I'd feel safe acting like a big shit if I had a big brother the size of China backing me up.

I'm wondering what happens when Kim dies. Does the military step in and say they run it or does some figure head come forth.
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Re: North Korea Saber Rattling

Post by man in black » Sun Mar 15, 2009 10:19 pm

whatever happens its going to be interesting.
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Re: North Korea Saber Rattling

Post by TxMedic645 » Sun Mar 15, 2009 10:37 pm

BeerandGuns wrote:Kim also has China standing behind him. China does not want a democratic Korea on its border. I think a lot of his bluster comes from knowing this. China has occasionally told him to STFU. I'd feel safe acting like a big shit if I had a big brother the size of China backing me up.

I'm wondering what happens when Kim dies. Does the military step in and say they run it or does some figure head come forth.
I don’t know so much about China backing any stupid play that NK makes. Like you said China has told him on several occasions to keep his mouth shut, and they are trying real hard to be seen in a positive light globally. I don’t think they’d really let NK compromise that. China isn’t willing to risk war with the US & her allies anymore than the US really wants war with China. If anything, I think that China has probably kept NK from doing something stupid for a while.

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Re: North Korea Saber Rattling

Post by TheGunslinger » Mon Mar 16, 2009 2:42 am

Yeah, times have changed in the 60 odd years since the actual shooting Korean War.

NK doesn't have carte blanche like they used to - I'd say it's pretty freakin unlikely that we'll see a million strong 'People's Volunteer Army' behind NK like we saw back then.

China has said don't be a fucking dickwad to Kim on numerous occasions. NK, is in many respects a vassal state of the PRC - sometimes that means they get away with cockamanie stunts, but in other times it means they get told to shut the fuck up and sit down.

I'd say that risking a shooting war with South Korea (and by extension, Japan and the USA - probably the UK, Australia, Malaysia and New Zealand, for what we're worth) is one of those kinds. S'if China is going to stand behind NK if it means sacrificing virtually all trade with the West - seeing as NK is dwindling in pretty much every demographic measurable.
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Re: North Korea Saber Rattling

Post by Tetra Grammaton Cleric » Mon Mar 16, 2009 3:15 am

Considering the chinese just spent all that time and money buying up chunks of the west in terms of property, shares, assets, industry, resources and debt I think that's another reason they'll want to keep a lid on Kim's antics.

In terms of "fear of NK" the average (business)man in the street in SK* is more afeared of a possible reunification with NK than any possibility of NK attacking them.

*I recently read a series of interviews with SK businessfolk but can't find it to substantiate my comment.
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Re: North Korea Saber Rattling

Post by BeerandGuns » Mon Mar 16, 2009 5:31 pm

TxMedic645 wrote:
BeerandGuns wrote:Kim also has China standing behind him. China does not want a democratic Korea on its border. I think a lot of his bluster comes from knowing this. China has occasionally told him to STFU. I'd feel safe acting like a big shit if I had a big brother the size of China backing me up.

I'm wondering what happens when Kim dies. Does the military step in and say they run it or does some figure head come forth.
I don’t know so much about China backing any stupid play that NK makes. Like you said China has told him on several occasions to keep his mouth shut, and they are trying real hard to be seen in a positive light globally. I don’t think they’d really let NK compromise that. China isn’t willing to risk war with the US & her allies anymore than the US really wants war with China. If anything, I think that China has probably kept NK from doing something stupid for a while.

Just my opinions..
I don't see war coming of it. I'm mentioning China because Kim knows we won't go after him with China backing him. He's certainly not going to start a war. He's got an entire country at his feet. Why ruin a good thing?
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