Arson/Attacks/Vandalism in Houses of Worship - 2020

[raptor2]

There appears a huge uptick in violence directed against houses of worship in 2020. This does include the recent attacks on religious artifacts by the ant-statue folks.

For instance in NOLA there is a specific group that has demanded the burning, gutting, demolition of St Louis Cathedral as well as the murder of the religious personnel associated with it....What can I say... Such nice people.

I am going to set up this topic as a place for ZS'ers to report this violence in their area. It may be part of a larger trend of such violence. It also may simply be 2020 weirdness.



These attacks seem to have ramped up not just in the US but Europe.

Here are a few:
https://www.newsweek.com/french-cathedr ... re-1518904
French Cathedral Volunteer Arrested on Suspicion of Arson in Church Fire

https://www.sfgate.com/news/article/Fir ... 425095.php

A fire inside the sanctuary of a Delaware church was started by an act of arson, authorities said.
State Fire Marshal Chief Deputy Robert Fox said multiple fires were started inside Reach Church, in Glasgow, Monday night, news outlets reported.

https://keyt.com/news/national-world/20 ... ri-church/

https://www.wsj.com/articles/desecratio ... 1595451973

https://www.americamagazine.org/faith/2 ... -vandalism

https://www.rt.com/usa/495006-chuch-ana ... s-vandals/

These stories do seem to show up in the foreign press but seem to get little attention anything except the local press.

Some seem to be directed at specific issues like this church arson in MS
https://abcnews.go.com/US/covid-related ... d=70807908

Some seem to driven by irrational hate:
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/ma ... r-BB16DPGb

Shields told detectives what he did was “awesome,” and he smiled and laughed, the affidavit said. He told detectives he was “on a mission,” called himself “king”

Warning politics & pictures of hate at this link but it has a good list of recent attacks.(click at your own risk)
https://www.israelnationalnews.com/News ... spx/281378

[boskone]

I think "Arson" in the title oughta be expanded to "vandalism", as there seems to be a pattern as well of decapitating Jesus icons.

[raptor2]

Good point some of the arsons are combined with vandalism as well as physical attacks during the arson event.
To be clear this is meant to capture any significant attack that does not warrant its own thread in DICE and not to promote or denigrate any religion or religious activity or otherwise violate the forum rules on "No Religion"/"No Politics".

[NT2C]

Possibly related: Florida State student government cancels senate president for religious beliefs, lawsuit says

If there is indeed a backlash building against specific religions, or religions in general, then extra vigilance when conducting religious services or activities should be used.

I want to also officially note that, like threads that brush up against our no politics rule, this thread brushes up against our no religious discussion rule. Please keep this thread on track and do not let it wander off into the tempest of religious discussion for 40 days and 40 nights, else I might have to smite thee and banish you to the desert of Time Out for 40 years.

[RoneKiln]

I recall back in the 90s there was a lot of media attention on a certain demographic of churches being burned down. Seemed a lot of them were burning. Turns out the only real change was the adrupt increase in attention on church fires among that demographic. There wasn't any notable difference between that demographic and others, and the trend over time was fairly stable.

The real issue was sensationalist media.

Personally, I'd be surprised if there wasn't an uptick in arson and vandalism of churches right now. I'm also wary of buying into media hype around it. I typed "annual rate of church arson" into google and didn't find a nice easily available baseline for comparison. I'm also real tired, and don't have the energy to dig into this in depth at the moment. I'm hoping someone else will dg into it and let me off the hook.

Without knowing the typical rate of arson and vandalism to compare the current rate, I don't know how to gauge the potential threat.

[raptor2]

The real issue was sensationalist media.

Personally, I'd be surprised if there wasn't an uptick in arson and vandalism of churches right now. I'm also wary of buying into media hype around it. I typed "annual rate of church arson" into google and didn't find a nice easily available baseline for comparison.

Personally I hope this thread gets dumped into OT due to inactivity ... but time will tell.

In any event the level of general insanity does not seem to be abating so everyone be careful out there.

[NT2C]

The real issue was sensationalist media.

Personally, I'd be surprised if there wasn't an uptick in arson and vandalism of churches right now. I'm also wary of buying into media hype around it. I typed "annual rate of church arson" into google and didn't find a nice easily available baseline for comparison.

Personally I hope this thread gets dumped into OT due to inactivity ... but time will tell.

In any event the level of general insanity does not seem to be abating so everyone be careful out there.

Well, it really doesn't fit as a disaster...

[12_Gauge_Chimp]

Wasn't there a big thing about church burnings like this back in the 1990s in Sweden or Norway ?

I seem to recall MTV reporting on a couple churches in Norway being burnt or vandalized by fans of a certain couple of death metal bands. I really don't remember much about the actual stories considering I was like 10 or 11 when the arsons happened, though.

[RoneKiln]

The real issue was sensationalist media.

Personally, I'd be surprised if there wasn't an uptick in arson and vandalism of churches right now. I'm also wary of buying into media hype around it. I typed "annual rate of church arson" into google and didn't find a nice easily available baseline for comparison.

Personally I hope this thread gets dumped into OT due to inactivity ... but time will tell.

In any event the level of general insanity does not seem to be abating so everyone be careful out there.

Well, it really doesn't fit as a disaster...

If a wave of arsons related to religion happens in my area, I'll consider it a disaster that could likely inflame a very scary scenario. I think it merits keeping an eye on, and hopefully it's just hype or a small temporary spike that passes and fails to materialize into a real emergency.

[RoneKiln]

Wasn't there a big thing about church burnings like this back in the 1990s in Sweden or Norway ?

I seem to recall MTV reporting on a couple churches in Norway being burnt or vandalized by fans of a certain couple of death metal bands. I really don't remember much about the actual stories considering I was like 10 or 11 when the arsons happened, though.

https://dailyhive.com/mapped/norway-bla ... es-history

Looks like there was.

[12_Gauge_Chimp]

Wasn't there a big thing about church burnings like this back in the 1990s in Sweden or Norway ?

I seem to recall MTV reporting on a couple churches in Norway being burnt or vandalized by fans of a certain couple of death metal bands. I really don't remember much about the actual stories considering I was like 10 or 11 when the arsons happened, though.

https://dailyhive.com/mapped/norway-bla ... es-history

Looks like there was.

That's what I figured, but I couldn't remember the exact country.

I'm also not sure why the church burnings here in the US reminded me of the black metal church arsons in Norway.

[RoneKiln]

My Dad's church was set on fire last weekend. Fire was started in the daylight basement, and luckily put out before it got into the level above. Sounds like the damage is pretty severe. Nobody was injured.

Several apartment buildings nearby were also set on fire and several people lost their homes, including an acquaintance of mine I've not seen in several years.

The current belief is that it's related to the current civil unrest, but I don't know if they have any proof of that. They have one suspect in custody right now. They suspect the fires are related but are also investigating the possibility they're not. Given the uncertainty if the fires are related, it sounds like the suspect in custody isn't saying much.

[RoneKiln]

https://www.theolympian.com/news/local/ ... 62772.html

The suspect has now been arrested for 2 of the 3 fires. I've still not heard anything about motive.

[raptor2]

Anti-Catholic arson attack.

The Hillsborough County Sheriff’s Office is searching for a man who broke into Incarnation Catholic Church in Town 'N Country and lit several pews on fire.

https://www.tampabay.com/news/crime/202 ... n-country/

[raptor2]

The lastest:
https://www.kentuckytoday.com/stories/v ... rest,28730

PHILADELPHIA (BP) – The building of Vietnam Baptist Church in Philadelphia was burned Tuesday night during the second night of unrest in the city after the police shooting of a Black man Monday.


Pastor Philip Pham received a call Tuesday night from a church member whose friend had seen the flames and seven fire trucks surrounding the church.


“I have no idea why they attacked our church,” Pham said. “They burned it from the roof. They threw flammable chemicals on the roof and [flames] burned through the roof” and down through the rest of the building. He said the facility is a “total loss.”

[MPMalloy]

The lastest:
https://www.kentuckytoday.com/stories/v ... rest,28730

PHILADELPHIA (BP) – The building of Vietnam Baptist Church in Philadelphia was burned Tuesday night during the second night of unrest in the city after the police shooting of a Black man Monday.

Pastor Philip Pham received a call Tuesday night from a church member whose friend had seen the flames and seven fire trucks surrounding the church.

“I have no idea why they attacked our church,” Pham said. “They burned it from the roof. They threw flammable chemicals on the roof and [flames] burned through the roof” and down through the rest of the building. He said the facility is a “total loss.”

The only *reason I could see would be the faith. I'm trying to see how the ethnicity would factor in - total blank there for me.

If there was no reason, well then......

I say hate crime. By people who draw "attention" to same.

[raptor2]

The message to me is very clear.

Religion is loathed and despised by several groups that worship their ideology and form of management they prefer. They know one is stronger than the other and seek to weaken it any way possible. It is as simple and complex as that.

[CG]

This isn't an attack on a house of worship, but on a pastor who heads an organization that works in China.

https://www.newswest9.com/article/news/ ... d893c958b9

Dozens of protestors have been outside of Fu's house for hours each day for about a month.
The protestors won't say who they are, where they are from or even if they are being paid to be here. All they will say is their claim that Fu is a CCP spy.

That part disturbs me. Definitely not an organically grown protest.

[raptor2]

This isn't an attack on a house of worship, but on a pastor who heads an organization that works in China.

https://www.newswest9.com/article/news/ ... d893c958b9

Dozens of protestors have been outside of Fu's house for hours each day for about a month.
The protestors won't say who they are, where they are from or even if they are being paid to be here. All they will say is their claim that Fu is a CCP spy.

That part disturbs me. Definitely not an organically grown protest.

Thank you I did not see this in the news. I am not surprised the MSM does not carry this story but it is noteworthy.

[PistolPete]

3 killed including one who was beheaded at a church in France.
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/10/ ... now-so-far

[RoneKiln]

The message to me is very clear.

Religion is loathed and despised by several groups that worship their ideology and form of management they prefer. They know one is stronger than the other and seek to weaken it any way possible. It is as simple and complex as that.

I firmly believe this is happening.

I also believe that there are psychos and assholes in the world that would commit horrible acts even in the best of times. I also believe the events of the last year will tip far more people toward the psycho and asshole categories. Current events provide a lot of smokescreen and better opportunities for the psychos and assholes to do awful things.

I also believe our media is quite sensationalist.

It's well worth being careful not to assume each individual travesty is done with calculated intent or for a specific ideological crusade.

[TacAir]

A quick dive on the web shows many church's ban firearms in the facility. Given the number of different churches shot up of late, I find the reaction most curious.

Guess I would have to give serious thought to dumping *any* organization that insisted I become a sitting duck while on the preemies.

Clearly, more digging on my part needs to be forthcoming....

[PistolPete]

A quick dive on the web shows many church's ban firearms in the facility. Given the number of different churches shot up of late, I find the reaction most curious.

About 10 years ago I took a tactical class that was mostly made up of cops and mega-church security guards, so at least then there was one church who was taking an active role in protecting the congregation. How widespread that is I can't say.

[raptor2]

A quick dive on the web shows many church's ban firearms in the facility. Given the number of different churches shot up of late, I find the reaction most curious.

About 10 years ago I took a tactical class that was mostly made up of cops and mega-church security guards, so at least then there was one church who was taking an active role in protecting the congregation. How widespread that is I can't say.

It is a bit more widespread than one would think at least in LA, MS & TX. One key point about security is opsec. The optics look bad. That and in many states CCW in houses of worship is banned by state law.
If you do not need to know most likely you will not be told.
One example.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5IKbgO9 ... el=ABCNews