Atlanta Walkout

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Re: Atlanta Walkout

Post by raptor2 » Fri Jun 26, 2020 10:02 am

MPMalloy wrote:
Fri Jun 26, 2020 8:09 am
aikorob wrote:
Fri Jun 26, 2020 3:54 am
that didn't take long......
https://times-herald.com/news/2020/06/f ... ffs-office
Everybody has bills, & bills need to be paid...
That and everyone wants to work someplace where their effort is at least appreciated and the boss has the back of any employee who follows the rules.

I think Coweta has solved it's open position problem.
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https://nypost.com/2020/06/25/bronx-nyp ... n-protest/

Well related to the thread: The city and its citizens want safety but in the case with NYPD, there is no clear cut method to acheive that goal. After all, the NYPD no longer has a plainclothes/undercover unit ro properly investigate... well, anything.
Don't be silly. Not all citizens want safety, I mean you would think they would.... Good candidate for Not the Onion, I LOL'd:

https://www.foxnews.com/us/minneapolis- ... orge-floyd
Another resident, Mitchell Erickson, said he regretted calling 911 when two black teenagers cornered him a block away from his home, held a gun to his chest and demanded his car keys. Erickson said he mistakenly handed over his house keys, and the frustrated teens left him only to steal another car a few blocks away.

“Been thinking more about it,” Erickson said in a text message to a reporter. “I regret calling the police. It was my instinct but I wish it hadn’t been. I put those boys in danger of death by calling the cops.”
:clownshoes:

So armed robbery is ok. Just give them your stuff and go about your business. The article is just full of gems. I wonder how long it will be before the people realize that they have been swindled and what the true nature of all crime is? They seem slow learners so it might be a while.
Reading that article makes me wonder if perhaps some drug like LSD that has been administered to a wide swath of certain geographic regions.
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Re: Atlanta Walkout

Post by aikorob » Fri Jun 26, 2020 4:43 pm

raptor2 wrote:
Fri Jun 26, 2020 10:02 am
Reading that article makes me wonder if perhaps some drug like LSD that has been administered to a wide swath of certain geographic regions.
yeah................supposedly all those plans to load the NY water supply with acid were never carried out..................................................but you might be on to something
I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they’ve always worked for me.

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Re: Atlanta Walkout

Post by MPMalloy » Sun Jun 28, 2020 2:30 pm

This is too....something...to take seriously.

From NPR: Minneapolis Council Moves To Defund Police, Establish 'Holistic' Public Safety Force

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Re: Atlanta Walkout

Post by boskone » Sun Jun 28, 2020 2:39 pm

Of note, it seems that Minnesota has a castle doctrine for the home, but not businesses or other such; outside of the home they have a duty to retreat.

If they're reducing the police force, I wonder if that will end up changing. Given the guy that wishes he'd given his car keys to a mugger, I'm not sure it will. Potentially unfortunate for business-owners, but I suppose we'll see.

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Re: Atlanta Walkout

Post by MPMalloy » Sun Jun 28, 2020 3:43 pm

boskone wrote:
Sun Jun 28, 2020 2:39 pm
Of note, it seems that Minnesota has a castle doctrine for the home, but not businesses or other such; outside of the home they have a duty to retreat.

If they're reducing the police force, I wonder if that will end up changing. Given the guy that wishes he'd given his car keys to a mugger, I'm not sure it will. Potentially unfortunate for business-owners, but I suppose we'll see.
MN non-resident is the most popular carry class here.

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Re: Atlanta Walkout

Post by NT2C » Sun Jun 28, 2020 4:06 pm

boskone wrote:
Sun Jun 28, 2020 2:39 pm
Of note, it seems that Minnesota has a castle doctrine for the home, but not businesses or other such; outside of the home they have a duty to retreat.

If they're reducing the police force, I wonder if that will end up changing. Given the guy that wishes he'd given his car keys to a mugger, I'm not sure it will. Potentially unfortunate for business-owners, but I suppose we'll see.
"While I was attempting to retreat I tripped. At that point, I felt I was in immediate danger of death or serious injury so I emptied the mag into the attacker."

You have a duty to attempt to retreat. You have no duty to be any good at it. 8-)
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Re: Atlanta Walkout

Post by Mad Mike » Tue Jun 30, 2020 2:59 pm

NT2C wrote:
Sun Jun 28, 2020 4:06 pm
boskone wrote:
Sun Jun 28, 2020 2:39 pm
Of note, it seems that Minnesota has a castle doctrine for the home, but not businesses or other such; outside of the home they have a duty to retreat.

If they're reducing the police force, I wonder if that will end up changing. Given the guy that wishes he'd given his car keys to a mugger, I'm not sure it will. Potentially unfortunate for business-owners, but I suppose we'll see.
"While I was attempting to retreat I tripped. At that point, I felt I was in immediate danger of death or serious injury so I emptied the mag into the attacker."

You have a duty to attempt to retreat. You have no duty to be any good at it. 8-)


HMMM !!! :mrgreen:

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Re: Atlanta Walkout

Post by RoneKiln » Tue Jun 30, 2020 7:32 pm

Mad Mike wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 2:59 pm
NT2C wrote:
Sun Jun 28, 2020 4:06 pm
boskone wrote:
Sun Jun 28, 2020 2:39 pm
Of note, it seems that Minnesota has a castle doctrine for the home, but not businesses or other such; outside of the home they have a duty to retreat.

If they're reducing the police force, I wonder if that will end up changing. Given the guy that wishes he'd given his car keys to a mugger, I'm not sure it will. Potentially unfortunate for business-owners, but I suppose we'll see.
"While I was attempting to retreat I tripped. At that point, I felt I was in immediate danger of death or serious injury so I emptied the mag into the attacker."

You have a duty to attempt to retreat. You have no duty to be any good at it. 8-)


HMMM !!! :mrgreen:
Having a duty to attempt to retreat tends to create guilty till proven innocent scenarios in which you have to prove you attempted to retreat. Those scenarios are what drove the creation of castle doctrine and stand your ground laws. I think in most cases, most people are better off abandoning the business than facing a guilty till proven innocent scenario in court.

I hope any sane person's knee jerk reaction is "that's not how it should work!" Mine is. But it often does work that way.
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Re: Atlanta Walkout

Post by NT2C » Tue Jun 30, 2020 8:08 pm

RoneKiln wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 7:32 pm
Mad Mike wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 2:59 pm
NT2C wrote:
Sun Jun 28, 2020 4:06 pm
boskone wrote:
Sun Jun 28, 2020 2:39 pm
Of note, it seems that Minnesota has a castle doctrine for the home, but not businesses or other such; outside of the home they have a duty to retreat.

If they're reducing the police force, I wonder if that will end up changing. Given the guy that wishes he'd given his car keys to a mugger, I'm not sure it will. Potentially unfortunate for business-owners, but I suppose we'll see.
"While I was attempting to retreat I tripped. At that point, I felt I was in immediate danger of death or serious injury so I emptied the mag into the attacker."

You have a duty to attempt to retreat. You have no duty to be any good at it. 8-)


HMMM !!! :mrgreen:
Having a duty to attempt to retreat tends to create guilty till proven innocent scenarios in which you have to prove you attempted to retreat. Those scenarios are what drove the creation of castle doctrine and stand your ground laws. I think in most cases, most people are better off abandoning the business than facing a guilty till proven innocent scenario in court.

I hope any sane person's knee jerk reaction is "that's not how it should work!" Mine is. But it often does work that way.
I'm handicapped. I want to see the prosecutor that can believably argue to a jury that I'm even capable of retreat from the average attacker. :lol:

But for those of you who aren't handicapped, the state may require your retreat, and I strongly urge you to comply with that requirement since that is the law. However, as I said, you have no requirement to be any good at it, or to succeed. If you trip while retreating because you were paying more attention to the threat than to your retreat path, defensive actions may be your only option. Shit happens, yo. 8-)
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Re: Atlanta Walkout

Post by RickOShea » Mon Jul 06, 2020 7:13 pm

WSB-TV 2 Atlanta - Governor declares State of Emergency, authorizes 1,000 National Guard troops to Atlanta


ATLANTA — Gov. Brian Kemp has signed an executive order declaring a State of Emergency and authorizing the call-up of up to 1,000 National Guard troops in Georgia.

The troops will be deployed as needed to protect state buildings, including the State Capitol, the Georgia Department of Public Safety headquarters, the governor’s mansion and the Georgia World Congress Center.

The goal, according to the governor’s office, is to free up state troopers from those locations so they can help patrol the streets of Atlanta.
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Re: Atlanta Walkout

Post by Stercutus » Mon Jul 06, 2020 8:41 pm

RickOShea wrote:
Mon Jul 06, 2020 7:13 pm
WSB-TV 2 Atlanta - Governor declares State of Emergency, authorizes 1,000 National Guard troops to Atlanta


ATLANTA — Gov. Brian Kemp has signed an executive order declaring a State of Emergency and authorizing the call-up of up to 1,000 National Guard troops in Georgia.

The troops will be deployed as needed to protect state buildings, including the State Capitol, the Georgia Department of Public Safety headquarters, the governor’s mansion and the Georgia World Congress Center.

The goal, according to the governor’s office, is to free up state troopers from those locations so they can help patrol the streets of Atlanta.
I am not sure how much they will be able to help. There are more than twice as many APD officers as there are State Troopers in the entire state. Even if they sent 1/4 of the State Patrol there it would barely cover sick outs.

Not sure if this has been covered but APD is no longer getting support from agencies outside of their jurisdiction. The State Patrol and National Guard are their last option. This is because the DA has lost all confidence of the law enforcement community in the area. One week he went on TV and told the world that a TASER was deadly force and the officers were wrong for using it to enable an arrest. A couple of weeks later he reversed himself and said it was not deadly force when the police were being shot at with one without any clarification whatsoever. This is a total aside from the politics of the situation, their top lawyer appears clueless and anti-cop.

Without any support from the DA officers are not interested in making arrests because they could just as easily end up behind bars for doing their job. National Guard are not beholden to the DA and State Police have other options.

Now that the mayor has the COVID I wonder how that will change things in the short term?
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Re: Atlanta Walkout

Post by raptor2 » Tue Jul 07, 2020 3:29 pm

Stercutus wrote:
Mon Jul 06, 2020 8:41 pm
This is because the DA has lost all confidence of the law enforcement community in the area. One week he went on TV and told the world that a TASER was deadly force and the officers were wrong for using it to enable an arrest. A couple of weeks later he reversed himself and said it was not deadly force when the police were being shot at with one without any clarification whatsoever.
I have learned over the years that many times when there is a situation that makes no sense(i.e. inconsistent statements), if you follow the money, more times than not an answer seems to appear.

https://www.ajc.com/news/local/gbi-open ... GNJcxMJ6O/

The other aspect involves politics and a simple Google search of Paul Howard will turn up many articles that cannot be discussed on this forum.
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Re: Atlanta Walkout

Post by Stercutus » Tue Jul 07, 2020 4:28 pm

raptor2 wrote:
Tue Jul 07, 2020 3:29 pm
Stercutus wrote:
Mon Jul 06, 2020 8:41 pm
This is because the DA has lost all confidence of the law enforcement community in the area. One week he went on TV and told the world that a TASER was deadly force and the officers were wrong for using it to enable an arrest. A couple of weeks later he reversed himself and said it was not deadly force when the police were being shot at with one without any clarification whatsoever.
I have learned over the years that many times when there is a situation that makes no sense(i.e. inconsistent statements), if you follow the money, more times than not an answer seems to appear.

https://www.ajc.com/news/local/gbi-open ... GNJcxMJ6O/

The other aspect involves politics and a simple Google search of Paul Howard will turn up many articles that cannot be discussed on this forum.
So you are saying there might be trust issues here? :rofl:
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Re: Atlanta Walkout

Post by lailr » Wed Jul 08, 2020 9:33 am

Stercutus wrote:
Tue Jul 07, 2020 4:28 pm
raptor2 wrote:
Tue Jul 07, 2020 3:29 pm
Stercutus wrote:
Mon Jul 06, 2020 8:41 pm
This is because the DA has lost all confidence of the law enforcement community in the area. One week he went on TV and told the world that a TASER was deadly force and the officers were wrong for using it to enable an arrest. A couple of weeks later he reversed himself and said it was not deadly force when the police were being shot at with one without any clarification whatsoever.
I have learned over the years that many times when there is a situation that makes no sense(i.e. inconsistent statements), if you follow the money, more times than not an answer seems to appear.

https://www.ajc.com/news/local/gbi-open ... GNJcxMJ6O/

The other aspect involves politics and a simple Google search of Paul Howard will turn up many articles that cannot be discussed on this forum.
So you are saying there might be trust issues here? :rofl:
So you're saying these poor guys were thrown to the wolves to put the scent off the DA??? Surely not! :crazy: :lol: :lol:

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Re: Atlanta Walkout

Post by raptor2 » Wed Jul 08, 2020 10:37 am

lailr wrote:
Wed Jul 08, 2020 9:33 am
Stercutus wrote:
Tue Jul 07, 2020 4:28 pm
raptor2 wrote:
Tue Jul 07, 2020 3:29 pm
Stercutus wrote:
Mon Jul 06, 2020 8:41 pm
This is because the DA has lost all confidence of the law enforcement community in the area. One week he went on TV and told the world that a TASER was deadly force and the officers were wrong for using it to enable an arrest. A couple of weeks later he reversed himself and said it was not deadly force when the police were being shot at with one without any clarification whatsoever.
I have learned over the years that many times when there is a situation that makes no sense(i.e. inconsistent statements), if you follow the money, more times than not an answer seems to appear.

https://www.ajc.com/news/local/gbi-open ... GNJcxMJ6O/

The other aspect involves politics and a simple Google search of Paul Howard will turn up many articles that cannot be discussed on this forum.
So you are saying there might be trust issues here? :rofl:
So you're saying these poor guys were thrown to the wolves to put the scent off the DA??? Surely not! :crazy: :lol: :lol:
Everyone is free to draw their own conclusions and form their own opinions.

My opinion is that the publicly available information shows this person has taken several very questionable actions/choices lately on a lot of diverse subjects.
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Re: Atlanta Walkout

Post by MPMalloy » Wed Jul 08, 2020 11:48 am

Is APD still calling in sick?

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Re: Atlanta Walkout

Post by raptor2 » Wed Jul 08, 2020 12:14 pm

MPMalloy wrote:
Wed Jul 08, 2020 11:48 am
Is APD still calling in sick?
One thing to remember. A demoralized work force is a demotivated work force. Just because an employee is sitting at his/her/it's desk does not mean they are productive or effective.

“This is probably the most challenged, most violent weekend that I could recall,” interim Atlanta Police Chief Rodney Bryant told Channel 2′s Mark Winne.
Bryant will lead the police department’s response, but says his men and women need the support of the people they serve.
“Morale is very bad,” he said. “Most police officers get into this profession to serve others. When it feels as if the community has turned on them, it’s a gut punch.”
https://www.wsbtv.com/news/local/atlant ... 6ZADWR4A4/

Other link:
https://www.officer.com/command-hq/news ... u-protests
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Re: Atlanta Walkout

Post by NT2C » Wed Jul 08, 2020 12:48 pm

The guard isn't fucking around...

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Re: Atlanta Walkout

Post by 12_Gauge_Chimp » Wed Jul 08, 2020 1:54 pm

NT2C wrote:
Wed Jul 08, 2020 12:48 pm
The guard isn't fucking around...

Image
I cannot confirm nor deny that I may or may not have been the one to sell or allow the use of said "battle monkeys" by the National Guard.

Kind of like how I may or may not have been the person who taught the monkeys at the Houston Zoo how to flip people off about 20-ish years ago.

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Re: Atlanta Walkout

Post by Stercutus » Wed Jul 08, 2020 7:08 pm

raptor2 wrote:
Wed Jul 08, 2020 12:14 pm
MPMalloy wrote:
Wed Jul 08, 2020 11:48 am
Is APD still calling in sick?
One thing to remember. A demoralized work force is a demotivated work force. Just because an employee is sitting at his/her/it's desk does not mean they are productive or effective.

“This is probably the most challenged, most violent weekend that I could recall,” interim Atlanta Police Chief Rodney Bryant told Channel 2′s Mark Winne.
Bryant will lead the police department’s response, but says his men and women need the support of the people they serve.
“Morale is very bad,” he said. “Most police officers get into this profession to serve others. When it feels as if the community has turned on them, it’s a gut punch.”
https://www.wsbtv.com/news/local/atlant ... 6ZADWR4A4/

Other link:
https://www.officer.com/command-hq/news ... u-protests
I think traffic stops are instructive. During the week before the 4th of July in 2019 the APD made around 3000 traffic stops. In 2020 it was 50. Traffic stops are self-initiated activity.
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Re: Atlanta Walkout

Post by raptor2 » Thu Jul 09, 2020 12:14 pm

Stercutus wrote:
Wed Jul 08, 2020 7:08 pm
I think traffic stops are instructive. During the week before the 4th of July in 2019 the APD made around 3000 traffic stops. In 2020 it was 50. Traffic stops are self-initiated activity.
I agree with the logic (I am taking your #s at face value) and if asked for organizational advice from an organization with such a stat I would say that is huge red flag. Building moral is very difficult. The only thing more difficult than building it, is maintaining it. I would look at the Chairman(Mayor), CEO (Chief) & COO(Asst Chief) of such an organization because in my experience that is where these problem originate. Normally a change in the duties/actions of all 3 would be recommended as the first step. I doubt that will happen her.

BTW another symptom of dysfunction and poor morale in an organization is turnover.
Kinda like this:
https://nypost.com/2020/07/08/nypd-limi ... this-week/
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Re: Atlanta Walkout

Post by Stercutus » Thu Jul 09, 2020 3:28 pm

raptor2 wrote:
Thu Jul 09, 2020 12:14 pm
Stercutus wrote:
Wed Jul 08, 2020 7:08 pm
I think traffic stops are instructive. During the week before the 4th of July in 2019 the APD made around 3000 traffic stops. In 2020 it was 50. Traffic stops are self-initiated activity.
I agree with the logic (I am taking your #s at face value) and if asked for organizational advice from an organization with such a stat I would say that is huge red flag. Building moral is very difficult. The only thing more difficult than building it, is maintaining it. I would look at the Chairman(Mayor), CEO (Chief) & COO(Asst Chief) of such an organization because in my experience that is where these problem originate. Normally a change in the duties/actions of all 3 would be recommended as the first step. I doubt that will happen her.

BTW another symptom of dysfunction and poor morale in an organization is turnover.
Kinda like this:
https://nypost.com/2020/07/08/nypd-limi ... this-week/
Those are actually real numbers:

https://www.11alive.com/article/news/cr ... b6c1a5b337

The reason the drug arrests are down is because most drug arrests take place during traffic stops. Typically the person is DUI (or crashed DUI) and the officer finds drugs and makes an arrest. Shooting and assaults are up for much the same reason. Most people don't really understand the relationship between drugs and crime. A lot of this is media disinformation some is willful ignorance.

You might notice that rape and robbery are way down this year for the moment. This is due to the virus.
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Re: Atlanta Walkout

Post by raptor2 » Thu Jul 09, 2020 4:36 pm

Wow the spreadsheet at your link is eye opening.

https://www.atlantapd.org/Home/ShowDocument?id=3297

Total arrests YTD 2020 are down 8%, Murder & aggravated assault are both up.

These performance stats would make me want to relocate from ATL proper.
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Re: Atlanta Walkout

Post by Stercutus » Sat Jul 18, 2020 5:12 am

MPD Officers are taking a more interesting route of leaving. Seems some of them picked up something from the people they deal with.

https://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2020/07/ ... from-ptsd/
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