Mass Blackouts in California

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Re: Mass Blackouts in California

Post by absinthe beginner » Mon Oct 28, 2019 8:39 am

Hurricane-Force Winds Are Turning California's Fires into a Horror Show

https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/8xwb ... orror-show

"Diablo Winds" Are Ferociously Whipping "Out Of Control" Wildfires Across Vast Stretches Of California

https://www.zerohedge.com/health/diablo ... s-northern

PG&E's stock plunges toward record low again, as Kincade wildfire still raging in California wine country

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/pges- ... latestnews

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Re: Mass Blackouts in California

Post by TacAir » Mon Oct 28, 2019 11:28 am

More to the point of this board - 100s of thousands have been forced to evacuate - and many of the hotels used in the past for temporary refuge are behind the 'red (evacuation) line.'

I've not seen any stories of shelters being set up - perhaps owing to he fear that the massive "homeless' population living in the AO would gravitate to better pickings?

Economic losses from lost wages of the evacuees are going to have a massive impact in both the near term and future.

And so - the question arises for board members - have you thought of this? Have you considered a Plan B in case your primary place to take refuge is suddenly unavailable? What plans do you have for short term loss of wages owing to not being able to work from fire, power/utility loss or other workplace disruption?

I have to wonder on the impact of feeding these 100s of thousands displaced by the fires.

Also - If PG&E tanks, the impact outside of SoCal will be significant
TacAir - I'd rather be a disappointed pessimist than a horrified optimist
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Re: Mass Blackouts in California

Post by raptor » Mon Oct 28, 2019 11:54 am

TacAir wrote:
Mon Oct 28, 2019 11:28 am
More to the point of this board - 100s of thousands have been forced to evacuate - and many of the hotels used in the past for temporary refuge are behind the 'red (evacuation) line.'

I've not seen any stories of shelters being set up - perhaps owing to he fear that the massive "homeless' population living in the AO would gravitate to better pickings?

Economic losses from lost wages of the evacuees are going to have a massive impact in both the near term and future.

And so - the question arises for board members - have you thought of this? Have you considered a Plan B in case your primary place to take refuge is suddenly unavailable? What plans do you have for short term loss of wages owing to not being able to work from fire, power/utility loss or other workplace disruption?

I have to wonder on the impact of feeding these 100s of thousands displaced by the fires.

Also - If PG&E tanks, the impact outside of SoCal will be significant

QFT! Except for the last point.

A wildfire like a nuclear plant accident, toxic chemical spill and Cat 5 hurricane are all bug out events if they are in reasonably close proximity. A bug out plan A & B are part of good planning.


The last point:
PG&E is already hosed.
https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/PCG

The bonds were hosed in January when they filed bankruptcy.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-pg-e ... skcn1p81pz

That damage is already done.

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Re: Mass Blackouts in California

Post by MPMalloy » Tue Oct 29, 2019 5:31 pm


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Re: Mass Blackouts in California

Post by majorhavoc » Thu Oct 31, 2019 10:47 am

Photo essay of an all-too-common phenomenon: evacuees setting up makeshift encampments in Walmart parking lots when they have nowhere else to go.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/201 ... =US%20News

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Re: Mass Blackouts in California

Post by MPMalloy » Thu Oct 31, 2019 11:07 am

majorhavoc wrote:
Thu Oct 31, 2019 10:47 am
Photo essay of an all-too-common phenomenon: evacuees setting up makeshift encampments in Walmart parking lots when they have nowhere else to go.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/201 ... =US%20News
Consumer ratings on my Ins. carrier have dropped I hear. I hope this isn't my future.

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Re: Mass Blackouts in California

Post by Stercutus » Thu Oct 31, 2019 2:20 pm

MPMalloy wrote:
Thu Oct 31, 2019 11:07 am
majorhavoc wrote:
Thu Oct 31, 2019 10:47 am
Photo essay of an all-too-common phenomenon: evacuees setting up makeshift encampments in Walmart parking lots when they have nowhere else to go.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/201 ... =US%20News
Consumer ratings on my Ins. carrier have dropped I hear. I hope this isn't my future.
I would hope you have a better plan than that.
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Re: Mass Blackouts in California

Post by raptor » Thu Oct 31, 2019 2:43 pm

Stercutus wrote:
Thu Oct 31, 2019 2:20 pm
MPMalloy wrote:
Thu Oct 31, 2019 11:07 am
majorhavoc wrote:
Thu Oct 31, 2019 10:47 am
Photo essay of an all-too-common phenomenon: evacuees setting up makeshift encampments in Walmart parking lots when they have nowhere else to go.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/201 ... =US%20News
Consumer ratings on my Ins. carrier have dropped I hear. I hope this isn't my future.
I would hope you have a better plan than that.
Nope I promise you "they" do not.

My mantra is (& yours should be ):
You are on your own. You are responsible for your (& your loved ones) safety and care.
Plan accordingly.

That and be sure to include your elderly loved ones in your plan:
https://apnews.com/0d32cb3d9d1c4d83976d7b167f38dd72

In Katrina they drowned; in CA they are again also abandoned.

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Re: Mass Blackouts in California

Post by Stercutus » Thu Oct 31, 2019 4:11 pm

I was referring to MPMalloy particularly. Anyone living in a Walmart parking lot has serious issues with planning and preparing. If it happens to me I figure everyone will be living in a Walmart parking lot.
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Re: Mass Blackouts in California

Post by raptor » Fri Nov 01, 2019 10:26 am

Stercutus wrote:
Thu Oct 31, 2019 4:11 pm
I was referring to MPMalloy particularly. Anyone living in a Walmart parking lot has serious issues with planning and preparing. If it happens to me I figure everyone will be living in a Walmart parking lot.
Ahh Ok sorry my mistake.

I assume every ZS'er has a plan a & b as well as likely a decent plan C & D.

Confession time here:
My plan D is make plan A & B work respectively. If Plan C does not work; a lot has gone very wrong in an awful lot of areas.

More black out stories.

An interesting point ... most of use think L.A., S.F. or SoCal when CA is mentioned. But it does get cold in certain areas of CA.
https://www.omaha.com/news/national/day ... c0541.html
Even more than the dark, she worried about the near-freezing temperatures inside her home in this remote part of Northern California.

“The thing is the cold,” she said Tuesday. “I am, like, folding him under the blankets.”

Some other interesting takeaways:

Living the aftermath of Katrina the isolation from world was at times disconcerting. This quote is form a person who is used to being "connected" to world. We have discussed this before but the internet and 24/7 connection to social media is now as important to many people as electricity. Some thing to consider in your personal planning. During Katrina i dealt with it by being busy and occupying my time. You may have to come up with "make work" tasks to keep people busy and not allowing anxiety to affect them.
“Not only are we in the dark, it’s almost like we are completely shut off from the world and that makes it even more terrifying,” said Annette Carter on Tuesday. “I can handle a lot of stuff, but my kids being in fear and not being able to reach out to the world and find out what’s going on … that’s problematic.”

Another recurring topic here. Generators. A generator is only as good as your fuel supply. When you acquire a generator you need to consider this in sizing as well. The bigger the generator the fuel you use and the more critical supply will become. You should also consider a multi fuel generator that can use propane or gas. A lot of stores these days have the Blue Rhino dispensers. They can be used with these generators when (not if) the gas stations are closed.
So he hunted down a generator 100 miles away in Yuba City and paid $1,700 for it. It takes about 12 gallons of gas at a time and runs only for six hours.
Water supply even from city sources can be shut off. A means of basic sanitation is needed. IF you have well make sure you have an alternate means of pumping water.
Jerry Gully sat on a bar stool in the dim daylight inside Moose Lodge 2284 on Tuesday, wondering whether he could rig up a generator to pump water from a well. Most wells here are run on electric pumps, which means many people don’t have water. But if he could pump, Gully could flush the toilets, which means he could open the place up as an evacuation center for the Kincade fire.
BTW if you have swimming pool pr a pond, that and a simple bucket will work to flush most residential toilets. Depending upon whether you have municipal sewer system or a septic tank you may have other disposal issues but short term a bucket of gray water will flush most residential toilets.

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Re: Mass Blackouts in California

Post by TacAir » Fri Nov 01, 2019 12:38 pm

@Raptor

My concern is the city sewage system backing up into the house.. It won't - I check w/ the sanitation Dept, but in many areas, if the lift station goes off-line, sewage floods follow.

I can live in my van if needed (VW EUrovan camper) but many are stuck as most hotel were in the evacuation zone....

No matter how you look at the situation, it sucks for everyone...
TacAir - I'd rather be a disappointed pessimist than a horrified optimist
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Re: Mass Blackouts in California

Post by flybynight » Fri Nov 01, 2019 12:49 pm

raptor wrote:
Fri Nov 01, 2019 10:26 am
Stercutus wrote:
Thu Oct 31, 2019 4:11 pm
I was referring to MPMalloy particularly. Anyone living in a Walmart parking lot has serious issues with planning and preparing. If it happens to me I figure everyone will be living in a Walmart parking lot.
Ahh Ok sorry my mistake.

I assume every ZS'er has a plan a & b as well as likely a decent plan C & D.

Confession time here:
My plan D is make plan A & B work respectively. If Plan C does not work; a lot has gone very wrong in an awful lot of areas.

More black out stories.

An interesting point ... most of use think L.A., S.F. or SoCal when CA is mentioned. But it does get cold in certain areas of CA.
https://www.omaha.com/news/national/day ... c0541.html
Even more than the dark, she worried about the near-freezing temperatures inside her home in this remote part of Northern California.

“The thing is the cold,” she said Tuesday. “I am, like, folding him under the blankets.”

Some other interesting takeaways:

Living the aftermath of Katrina the isolation from world was at times disconcerting. This quote is form a person who is used to being "connected" to world. We have discussed this before but the internet and 24/7 connection to social media is now as important to many people as electricity. Some thing to consider in your personal planning. During Katrina i dealt with it by being busy and occupying my time. You may have to come up with "make work" tasks to keep people busy and not allowing anxiety to affect them.
“Not only are we in the dark, it’s almost like we are completely shut off from the world and that makes it even more terrifying,” said Annette Carter on Tuesday. “I can handle a lot of stuff, but my kids being in fear and not being able to reach out to the world and find out what’s going on … that’s problematic.”

Another recurring topic here. Generators. A generator is only as good as your fuel supply. When you acquire a generator you need to consider this in sizing as well. The bigger the generator the fuel you use and the more critical supply will become. You should also consider a multi fuel generator that can use propane or gas. A lot of stores these days have the Blue Rhino dispensers. They can be used with these generators when (not if) the gas stations are closed.
So he hunted down a generator 100 miles away in Yuba City and paid $1,700 for it. It takes about 12 gallons of gas at a time and runs only for six hours.
Water supply even from city sources can be shut off. A means of basic sanitation is needed. IF you have well make sure you have an alternate means of pumping water.
Jerry Gully sat on a bar stool in the dim daylight inside Moose Lodge 2284 on Tuesday, wondering whether he could rig up a generator to pump water from a well. Most wells here are run on electric pumps, which means many people don’t have water. But if he could pump, Gully could flush the toilets, which means he could open the place up as an evacuation center for the Kincade fire.
BTW if you have swimming pool pr a pond, that and a simple bucket will work to flush most residential toilets. Depending upon whether you have municipal sewer system or a septic tank you may have other disposal issues but short term a bucket of gray water will flush most residential toilets.
Everybody knows this right? You can just pour water into the toilet and it will flush . When threatened by a ice storm forecast we would fill the bathtub full and use that to flush the toilet when there was no power to the well. When the tub ran low (in our case ) we would drive into town and fill containers from a spring tank that is on the main street ( left over from horse and buggy days but still kept in repair and used by locals for the mineral water health qualities ). We use that to refill the tub. The tub was used exclusively for the toilet as we had drinking water in containers. You could use any water source ( lake, stream, pond ) and of course since it's for the toilet, does not need to be potable.
As a humorous aside when I opened RAPTORS link , above the headline "Days of terrifying darkness, cold and hunger amid PG&E’s sweeping power blackouts " was a ad for.. " Cree XP-L LED Rechargeable Flashlight,Soonfire E07 USB Waterproof 1000 Lumen Compact EDC Flashlight with type 18650 3400mAh rechargeable Li-ion battery "
As of now I bet you got me wrong

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Re: Mass Blackouts in California

Post by flybynight » Fri Nov 01, 2019 12:51 pm

TacAir wrote:
Fri Nov 01, 2019 12:38 pm
@Raptor

My concern is the city sewage system backing up into the house.. It won't - I check w/ the sanitation Dept, but in many areas, if the lift station goes off-line, sewage floods follow.

I can live in my van if needed (VW EUrovan camper) but many are stuck as most hotel were in the evacuation zone....

No matter how you look at the situation, it sucks for everyone...
I don't have city sewage so yah for me. :clap:
As of now I bet you got me wrong

John Titor was right

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Re: Mass Blackouts in California

Post by woodsghost » Fri Nov 01, 2019 12:52 pm

A couple points stand out, and I've said these before:

Not every bug out includes the need for 8 knives and 400 rounds of ammo.

Not every bug out location will be accessible under the circumstances. Whether that is the cabin in the hills or your friends couch or the hotel.

Yes, you can become a refugee, even if you plan. But I expect if one has planned, one will leave "refugee" status more quickly.

When in doubt, do what Bear Grylls does.
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Re: Mass Blackouts in California

Post by majorhavoc » Fri Nov 01, 2019 1:04 pm

So you're saying that the way to avoid ending up in a Wallyworld refugee camp is to drink pee?

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Re: Mass Blackouts in California

Post by woodsghost » Fri Nov 01, 2019 2:01 pm

majorhavoc wrote:
Fri Nov 01, 2019 1:04 pm
So you're saying that the way to avoid ending up in a Wallyworld refugee camp is to drink pee?

Image
It hasn't failed me yet.
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*Be courteous. Look normal. Be in bed by 10'clock.

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Re: Mass Blackouts in California

Post by Stercutus » Fri Nov 01, 2019 2:43 pm

Living the aftermath of Katrina the isolation from world was at times disconcerting. This quote is form a person who is used to being "connected" to world. We have discussed this before but the internet and 24/7 connection to social media is now as important to many people as electricity. Some thing to consider in your personal planning. During Katrina i dealt with it by being busy and occupying my time. You may have to come up with "make work" tasks to keep people busy and not allowing anxiety to affect them
The world was a bit more boring before the internet that is for sure. Still, for me the creepiest post disaster event was 9/11. We were living on Ft. Bliss next to the El Paso Airport right in the flight path. How often did the planes fly over? So often you didn't even notice them. You sure noticed them when they were gone though. That and the appearance of military only planes like intercept fighters and stealth bombers. I imagine it is how the country most have felt after Pearl Harbor.

On the upside as I was working in Air Defense at the time there was plenty to keep me busy.

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Re: Mass Blackouts in California

Post by raptor » Fri Nov 01, 2019 3:41 pm

TacAir wrote:
Fri Nov 01, 2019 12:38 pm
@Raptor

My concern is the city sewage system backing up into the house.. It won't - I check w/ the sanitation Dept, but in many areas, if the lift station goes off-line, sewage floods follow.
That is actually a whole other discussion. Since everyone's house even connected to the city sewer has different issues; it is really something everyone needs to figure out on a case by case basis by looking at their sewer clean out access.
For instance my house in town is elevated and the lowest sewer cleanout is near the street. My plan to deal with this is to simply remove the cover and allow the sewerage to drain there if there is a lift pump failure and problem.

The farm has a septic tank.
YMMV
flybynight wrote:
Everybody knows this right? You can just pour water into the toilet and it will flush . When threatened by a ice storm forecast we would fill the bathtub full and use that to flush the toilet when there was no power to the well.
I am sure every ZS'er knows this. It is simple common sense. That said common sense is not very common. This is something that if the situation arises you should not assume everyone knows.

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Re: Mass Blackouts in California

Post by Stercutus » Fri Nov 01, 2019 6:06 pm

For instance my house in town is elevated and the lowest sewer cleanout is near the street. My plan to deal with this is to simply remove the cover and allow the sewerage to drain there if there is a lift pump failure and problem.
That was certainly the solution in Iraq.

That and Cholera.
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Re: Mass Blackouts in California

Post by Stercutus » Fri Nov 01, 2019 6:36 pm

The Atlantic is starting to figure out what the rest of us have known all along.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/realest ... cid=msn360

Although I would disagree on their reasoning.
Wildfires and lack of affordable housing—these are two of the most visible and urgent crises facing California,
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Re: Mass Blackouts in California

Post by absinthe beginner » Fri Nov 01, 2019 6:47 pm

The lack of preparedness among northern Californians is jaw-dropping.

https://www.omaha.com/news/national/day ... c0541.html

Amid what was effectively the longest planned power shut-off in California, the toll of the blackout — both immediate and existential — took shape Wednesday for PG&E customers who have weathered back-to-back outages, lasting up to five days for nearly half a million people.

In Lake County, which shares a border with Napa County but lacks its wealth, that has meant fear, cold, hunger and often anger — directed at both the utility and state leaders. More than 90% of PG&E customers in this landlocked county of lonely foothills lost power beginning Saturday evening with little idea when it would flow again.

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Re: Mass Blackouts in California

Post by raptor » Fri Nov 01, 2019 7:17 pm

Stercutus wrote:
Fri Nov 01, 2019 6:06 pm
For instance my house in town is elevated and the lowest sewer cleanout is near the street. My plan to deal with this is to simply remove the cover and allow the sewerage to drain there if there is a lift pump failure and problem.
That was certainly the solution in Iraq.

That and Cholera.
Yep. But short term it beats having the neighborhood sewerage back up into the house. That is what happens when lift stations fail. Sewerage finds its own level and if you are low point in the system. All that sewerage comes to visit.

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Re: Mass Blackouts in California

Post by RickOShea » Fri Nov 01, 2019 8:18 pm

Please don't shoot the linemen....


CNN - PG&E is asking customers frustrated by power shutoffs not to target its employees

As California utility Pacific Gas and Electric continues to face criticism for multiple planned power shutoffs that left thousands of customers in the dark last month, the company is asking the public not to take their frustration out on PG&E employees.

Some PG&E employees have received death threats in response to the shutoffs, PG&E CEO Bill Johnson said Wednesday.

"Our employees in the field have repeatedly been the targets of misguided attacks. Not just verbal abuse, but threats on their lives," Johnson said. "One was assaulted after being cornered in his vehicle. Several have been shot at."

"They are there to help turn (power) back on. And if you do something that makes them feel unsafe, they are instructed to stop what they are doing and stand down," Johnson said.
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Re: Mass Blackouts in California

Post by boskone » Fri Nov 01, 2019 8:35 pm

Off--or at least tangential to--topic, but I'm not sure it's worth a separate thread:

Nearly a million without power in Quebec.

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