New Zealand Mosque Shootings

Stuff that’s happening in the world that may pertain to our survival. Please keep political debates off the forum.

Moderator: ZS Global Moderators

taipan821
* * *
Posts: 563
Joined: Thu Aug 01, 2013 2:58 am

Re: New Zealand Mosque Shootings

Post by taipan821 » Sat Mar 16, 2019 10:24 pm

New Zealand is already looking at changing their firearm laws after this event, similar to what Australia did after Port Arthur. I hope that any new law minimizes disruptions to an excellent, friendly and courteous shooting community.
Tropical Cyclone Ita: Category 5 landfall 2014
Tropical Cyclone Marcia: Category 5 landfall 2015
Tropical Cyclone Nathan: Category 3 landfall 2015
Severe Tropical Cyclone Debbie: Category 4 landfall 2017
Watsonville/Walsh River Bushfire 2018
North Queensland Monsoonal Event 2019
New South Wales Bushfires 2019

User avatar
NT2C
ZS Global Moderator
ZS Global Moderator
Posts: 7941
Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2011 2:37 pm
Location: Outside of your jurisdiction officer

Re: New Zealand Mosque Shootings

Post by NT2C » Sat Mar 16, 2019 11:11 pm

Stercutus wrote:
Sat Mar 16, 2019 9:59 pm
Red Tamarillo wrote:
Sat Mar 16, 2019 9:03 pm
It was good to read of the fight back.
I think it really shows how clearly what cowards these guys really are. Shooting unarmed children is one thing. When confronted by someone not cowed by his guns? Wilted like a daisy. Most active shooters when confronted either flee, surrender or commit suicide. This is why I say we have been doing it wrong.

Or rather the government advice is all wrong in that regard. Running away will get you shot in the back. Hiding might save you but only till found. Fighting back will result in the shooter at worst reassessing and shooting his attacker, at best running off. When confronted with determined resistance he will nearly always falter.
Image
Nonsolis Radios Sediouis Fulmina Mitto. - USN Gunner's Mate motto

Sic quemadmodum gladius neminem occidit; occidentis telum est - Seneca the Younger, Epistles

absinthe beginner
* * * * *
Posts: 1537
Joined: Sun Jan 05, 2014 11:05 am
Favorite Zombie Movies: Shawn of the Dead
Location: Colorado

Re: New Zealand Mosque Shootings

Post by absinthe beginner » Sun Mar 17, 2019 9:42 am

Livestreaming videos assures nutters an audience of millions and instant infamy. Maybe social media should disable this capability so future whack jobs won't be able to livestream their atrocities and these sick videos never see the light of day except at jury trials.

https://www.businessinsider.com/faceboo ... urs-2019-3

User avatar
norcalprep
* *
Posts: 185
Joined: Tue Jan 25, 2011 4:48 pm

Re: New Zealand Mosque Shootings

Post by norcalprep » Sun Mar 17, 2019 11:38 am

absinthe beginner wrote:
Sun Mar 17, 2019 9:42 am
Livestreaming videos assures nutters an audience of millions and instant infamy. Maybe social media should disable this capability so future whack jobs won't be able to livestream their atrocities and these sick videos never see the light of day except at jury trials.

https://www.businessinsider.com/faceboo ... urs-2019-3
Wouldn't this be in the same line of reasoning as "automatic and semiautomatic weapons assures nutters higher body counts and instant infamy. Maybe government should disallow weapons so future whack jobs can't be able to commit these atrocities"

absinthe beginner
* * * * *
Posts: 1537
Joined: Sun Jan 05, 2014 11:05 am
Favorite Zombie Movies: Shawn of the Dead
Location: Colorado

Re: New Zealand Mosque Shootings

Post by absinthe beginner » Sun Mar 17, 2019 1:43 pm

NZ authorities are taking draconian measures to prevent people from viewing or circulating the livestream video the shooter broadcast. I have no issue with that, as long as the authorities take equal measures to prevent the circulation or viewing of jihadi videos as well. Of course censorship is only going to cause more people to view the offending items.

https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-03- ... sts-warned

Meanwhile, Facebook has so far taken down 1.5 million copies of the attack video. I find that utterly baffling, as I can't for the life of me understand why so many people would post or repost such a horrific video in the first place. Our "dark underbelly" may be even more sick than I'd assumed.

https://www.france24.com/en/20190317-ne ... ook-ardern
Last edited by absinthe beginner on Sun Mar 17, 2019 7:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Langenator
* * *
Posts: 640
Joined: Mon Jul 11, 2011 7:20 am
Favorite Zombie Movies: 28 Days Later, Zombieland, Shaun of the Dead (and Larry Correia's Monster Hunter series if they ever make them into movies)
Location: Aggieland, TX

Re: New Zealand Mosque Shootings

Post by Langenator » Sun Mar 17, 2019 3:02 pm

Stercutus wrote:
Sat Mar 16, 2019 5:25 pm
Some clarification.
During the attack at the Linwood Islamic Centre, Abdul Aziz distracted the shooter before scaring him away. Aziz screamed at the attacker, threw a credit card machine at the gunman when he went to get one gun, engaged in a cat-and-mouse chase with the shooter and threw a shotgun that the attacker had dropped after being hit with the credit card machine at the attacker’s car; the gunman drove away when the shotgun shattered his car’s window
I've read that the busted window was what allowed the cops to identify his vehicle. He was apparently arrested 36 minutes after the first call to police.

I would be really interested to find out how long it took police to respond to the two shooting sites, and then start searching for the guy in his car. Mass shootings, in more than one location, followed by a manhunt on top of it, is going to greatly complicate the police response. The 911 (or whatever number combo NZ uses) call center is going to be deluged with calls. And as soon as that "active shooter" call goes out, you're going to have cops converging from all over the city. When the calls from the second shooting site start coming in, and then getting dispatched, some of the cops will divert to that location - but not all of them, because at that point they have no way to know how many shooters there are, or where. I imagine the manhunt ensued when someone at the second location managed to get the information out that the shooter had left, along with a description of his vehicle.

Things I'll note:

-the police response was pretty slow, or at least it seems to be from the reports. The shooter left the first location because, in his mind, he was done there. There was nobody left to kill. What I'd like to know is what were the time hacks from the first shot to first 911 call, 911 call to police being dispatched, and police dispatch to police arrival, as well as overall time from first shot to first cop(s) arriving on scene.

-whether the one guy who fought back, and ended the shooting, did so because he was incredibly brave, or because he figured he was going to die anyway and had nothing to lose ("Let's roll" mentality), it worked. Fighting back, with whatever you have available (if you can pick it up and throw it, it's a projectile weapon), is better than going fetal and waiting to die. A 1% chance of success is still vastly more than zero.
Fortunis Fortus Paratus

User avatar
flybynight
* * * * *
Posts: 2954
Joined: Sun Dec 01, 2013 12:30 am

Re: New Zealand Mosque Shootings

Post by flybynight » Sun Mar 17, 2019 3:43 pm

whether the one guy who fought back, and ended the shooting, did so because he was incredibly brave, or because he figured he was going to die anyway and had nothing to lose ("Let's roll" mentality), it worked. Fighting back, with whatever you have available (if you can pick it up and throw it, it's a projectile weapon), is better than going fetal and waiting to die. A 1% chance of success is still vastly more than zero.

RUN


HIDE


FIGHT

NT2C 's meme said it beautifully. Fight like the third monkey on the ramp to Noah's ark. There won't be a second chance
As of now I bet you got me wrong

John Titor was right

User avatar
Stercutus
* * * * *
Posts: 13597
Joined: Wed Feb 10, 2010 8:16 pm
Location: Time Out

Re: New Zealand Mosque Shootings

Post by Stercutus » Sun Mar 17, 2019 4:56 pm

What I'd like to know is what were the time hacks from the first shot to first 911 call, 911 call to police being dispatched, and police dispatch to police arrival, as well as overall time from first shot to first cop(s) arriving on scene.
The video shows the police rolling in as the shooter is driving off. They either had no description after the first shoot or the description was so common (White car with white guy driving) so as to be useless. A broken window is something to look for that is unusual and rare. I'd say it is pretty likely that is how they found the shooter.
You go 'round and around it
You go over and under
I go through

absinthe beginner
* * * * *
Posts: 1537
Joined: Sun Jan 05, 2014 11:05 am
Favorite Zombie Movies: Shawn of the Dead
Location: Colorado

Re: New Zealand Mosque Shootings

Post by absinthe beginner » Sun Mar 17, 2019 8:04 pm

VICE news piece on the memes and code phrases that extremists in the white supremacist millieu are using to egg each other on.

https://news.vice.com/en_us/article/vbw ... ommunicate

User avatar
Stercutus
* * * * *
Posts: 13597
Joined: Wed Feb 10, 2010 8:16 pm
Location: Time Out

Re: New Zealand Mosque Shootings

Post by Stercutus » Sun Mar 17, 2019 8:50 pm

absinthe beginner wrote:
Sun Mar 17, 2019 8:04 pm
VICE news piece on the memes and code phrases that extremists in the white supremacist millieu are using to egg each other on.

https://news.vice.com/en_us/article/vbw ... ommunicate
Sadly that article is badly slanted and near worthless. It fails to mention the shooters political ideology at all which is most closely aligned with modern communist China. It presupposes the "big lie" that only right wingers can be racists and bigots, therefore the shooter must be right wing and not left wing which is a huge break from reality.

Again, you can't really pigeon hole the shooter's ideology into American political ideas. He does not fit neatly.
You go 'round and around it
You go over and under
I go through

absinthe beginner
* * * * *
Posts: 1537
Joined: Sun Jan 05, 2014 11:05 am
Favorite Zombie Movies: Shawn of the Dead
Location: Colorado

Re: New Zealand Mosque Shootings

Post by absinthe beginner » Mon Mar 18, 2019 8:57 am

Now the extremes are going to feed off each other as each attack begets reprisal attacks.

https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-03- ... recht-tram

MPMalloy
ZS Member
ZS Member
Posts: 4562
Joined: Mon Aug 22, 2005 2:48 am

Re: New Zealand Mosque Shootings

Post by MPMalloy » Mon Mar 18, 2019 9:49 am

absinthe beginner wrote:
Mon Mar 18, 2019 8:57 am
Now the extremes are going to feed off each other as each attack begets reprisal attacks.

https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-03- ... recht-tram
From RSOE EDIS:

http://hisz.rsoe.hu/m/?pageid=event_upd ... &uid=20794

With everything that has ever happened to me, I never thought of doing anything like this. I cannot comprehend what leads people to do these things. :evil:

User avatar
Stercutus
* * * * *
Posts: 13597
Joined: Wed Feb 10, 2010 8:16 pm
Location: Time Out

Re: New Zealand Mosque Shootings

Post by Stercutus » Mon Mar 18, 2019 1:53 pm

absinthe beginner wrote:
Mon Mar 18, 2019 8:57 am
Now the extremes are going to feed off each other as each attack begets reprisal attacks.

https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-03- ... recht-tram
Don't be naïve. They don't need a reason or an excuse. If they hate the killing comes around eventually. The NZ excuses were about revenge as well. Killing people in NZ for revenge against actions in Sweden and the UK makes as much sense as killing people in Holland over something that happened in NZ.
You go 'round and around it
You go over and under
I go through

drop bear
* * *
Posts: 523
Joined: Wed Mar 20, 2013 8:56 am

Re: New Zealand Mosque Shootings

Post by drop bear » Tue Mar 19, 2019 7:24 pm

taipan821 wrote:
Sat Mar 16, 2019 10:24 pm
New Zealand is already looking at changing their firearm laws after this event, similar to what Australia did after Port Arthur. I hope that any new law minimizes disruptions to an excellent, friendly and courteous shooting community.
A focus on accountability would probably get the most bang for buck.

drop bear
* * *
Posts: 523
Joined: Wed Mar 20, 2013 8:56 am

Re: New Zealand Mosque Shootings

Post by drop bear » Tue Mar 19, 2019 7:27 pm

Stercutus wrote:
Sun Mar 17, 2019 8:50 pm
absinthe beginner wrote:
Sun Mar 17, 2019 8:04 pm
VICE news piece on the memes and code phrases that extremists in the white supremacist millieu are using to egg each other on.

https://news.vice.com/en_us/article/vbw ... ommunicate
Sadly that article is badly slanted and near worthless. It fails to mention the shooters political ideology at all which is most closely aligned with modern communist China. It presupposes the "big lie" that only right wingers can be racists and bigots, therefore the shooter must be right wing and not left wing which is a huge break from reality.

Again, you can't really pigeon hole the shooter's ideology into American political ideas. He does not fit neatly.

There is a suggestion that he was backed by someone though. Which means there is a new crew out there causing mischief.

drop bear
* * *
Posts: 523
Joined: Wed Mar 20, 2013 8:56 am

Re: New Zealand Mosque Shootings

Post by drop bear » Tue Mar 19, 2019 7:27 pm

drop bear wrote:
Tue Mar 19, 2019 7:27 pm
Stercutus wrote:
Sun Mar 17, 2019 8:50 pm
absinthe beginner wrote:
Sun Mar 17, 2019 8:04 pm
VICE news piece on the memes and code phrases that extremists in the white supremacist millieu are using to egg each other on.

https://news.vice.com/en_us/article/vbw ... ommunicate
Sadly that article is badly slanted and near worthless. It fails to mention the shooters political ideology at all which is most closely aligned with modern communist China. It presupposes the "big lie" that only right wingers can be racists and bigots, therefore the shooter must be right wing and not left wing which is a huge break from reality.

Again, you can't really pigeon hole the shooter's ideology into American political ideas. He does not fit neatly.

There is a suggestion that he was backed by someone though. Which means there is a new crew out there causing mischief.
I mean the Russians would benifit.

absinthe beginner
* * * * *
Posts: 1537
Joined: Sun Jan 05, 2014 11:05 am
Favorite Zombie Movies: Shawn of the Dead
Location: Colorado

Re: New Zealand Mosque Shootings

Post by absinthe beginner » Wed Mar 20, 2019 11:51 am

A Senegalese refugee with a criminal record who somehow got a job as a school bus driver (WTF, over) attempted to immolate the kids he was entrusted with transporting, out of anger over the Italian governments hard-line policies against African and Middle Eastern migrants coming in by sea. Thank God all of the children escaped unharmed, or the anti-immigration backlash would probably have resulted in violent reprisals. If violence perpetrated against or by immigrants starts to feed on itself due to a cycle of revenge attacks, we are going to be headed down a very dark road indeed.

https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-03- ... orn-driver

MILAN, March 20 (Reuters) - A bus full of school children was set on fire by its driver in the outskirts of Milan on Wednesday in an apparent protest against migrant drownings in the Mediterranean, Italian authorities said.

All the children managed to escape unhurt before the bus was engulfed in flames. Police said the driver was an Italian of Senegalese origin.

“He shouted ‘Stop the deaths at sea, I’ll carry out a massacre’,” spokesman Marco Palmieri quoted the driver as telling police after his arrest.

A video posted on Italian news sites showed the driver ramming the bus into cars on a provincial highway before the fire took hold. Children can be seen running away from the vehicle screaming and shouting “escape”.

User avatar
Stercutus
* * * * *
Posts: 13597
Joined: Wed Feb 10, 2010 8:16 pm
Location: Time Out

Re: New Zealand Mosque Shootings

Post by Stercutus » Wed Mar 20, 2019 2:25 pm

Again I think you are looking at this the wrong way.

The vast majority of immigrants don't commit crimes or come to the US with the intention of committing attacks. There will always be a few.

The 9/11 attacks were carried out by people who had overstayed their visas and were technically illegal immigrants. Many attacks from bombings to murders to gang rapes and forced prostitution of children have been carried out by immigrants from other countries. This has been going on a long time. RFK was murdered by a Palestinian immigrant for example. I could cite hundreds of other examples through the decades but there is no point to it. It happens, has been happening for a long time and will continue to happen.

It isn't surprising in the least that an anti-immigrant sentiment has evolved in the US and other Western countries. Even so, The vast majority of people in Western countries don't pick up a gun and shoot up a mosque or kill a Sikh store clerk because he is different. There will always be a few.

What has changed is the polarization in US politics and there being no middle ground between the far left (no or open borders) and the far right (Bar all immigrants from certain countries because a few of the people from those countries did bad things). Immigration policy is a hot mess in the US right now.

But people with hatred in their heart don't need a reason. Setting a bus full of children on fire would qualify as one of those things that people don't need a reason to do. He hates himself, he hates people, he hates the world. Any excuse no matter how minor will justify his acts in his mind.
You go 'round and around it
You go over and under
I go through

drop bear
* * *
Posts: 523
Joined: Wed Mar 20, 2013 8:56 am

Re: New Zealand Mosque Shootings

Post by drop bear » Wed Mar 20, 2019 4:57 pm

Langenator wrote:
Sun Mar 17, 2019 3:02 pm
Stercutus wrote:
Sat Mar 16, 2019 5:25 pm
Some clarification.
During the attack at the Linwood Islamic Centre, Abdul Aziz distracted the shooter before scaring him away. Aziz screamed at the attacker, threw a credit card machine at the gunman when he went to get one gun, engaged in a cat-and-mouse chase with the shooter and threw a shotgun that the attacker had dropped after being hit with the credit card machine at the attacker’s car; the gunman drove away when the shotgun shattered his car’s window
I've read that the busted window was what allowed the cops to identify his vehicle. He was apparently arrested 36 minutes after the first call to police.

I would be really interested to find out how long it took police to respond to the two shooting sites, and then start searching for the guy in his car. Mass shootings, in more than one location, followed by a manhunt on top of it, is going to greatly complicate the police response. The 911 (or whatever number combo NZ uses) call center is going to be deluged with calls. And as soon as that "active shooter" call goes out, you're going to have cops converging from all over the city. When the calls from the second shooting site start coming in, and then getting dispatched, some of the cops will divert to that location - but not all of them, because at that point they have no way to know how many shooters there are, or where. I imagine the manhunt ensued when someone at the second location managed to get the information out that the shooter had left, along with a description of his vehicle.

Things I'll note:

-the police response was pretty slow, or at least it seems to be from the reports. The shooter left the first location because, in his mind, he was done there. There was nobody left to kill. What I'd like to know is what were the time hacks from the first shot to first 911 call, 911 call to police being dispatched, and police dispatch to police arrival, as well as overall time from first shot to first cop(s) arriving on scene.

-whether the one guy who fought back, and ended the shooting, did so because he was incredibly brave, or because he figured he was going to die anyway and had nothing to lose ("Let's roll" mentality), it worked. Fighting back, with whatever you have available (if you can pick it up and throw it, it's a projectile weapon), is better than going fetal and waiting to die. A 1% chance of success is still vastly more than zero.

10 minutes to have a team on site. They were training somewhere at the time.

Mojo Jojo
Posts: 11
Joined: Tue Feb 21, 2012 6:35 pm
Location: CHCH, New Zealand

Re: New Zealand Mosque Shootings

Post by Mojo Jojo » Thu Mar 21, 2019 12:31 am

The police response was pretty good considering that most NZ cops aren't armed. So to get armed police there in under 6 mins, and then capture within 21 mins of first call is pretty good considering he was moving around the city. Add in the fact he was on the way to a third target (unconfirmed but possibly another mosque or even rumored to be a muslim preschool) then no one here is being critical of the police response.

Police Commissioner Mike Bush says police knew where the suspect from the Christchurch mosque attacks was going after the shootings and intervened.

During a media conference today, Mr Bush gave further details of the police response during the attacks that killed 50 people at Al Noor and Linwood mosques.

He said within five minutes and 39 seconds of being notified the first responders were armed and on the scene and ready to respond and within 10 minutes the armed offenders squad was on the scene.

"Within 21 minutes the person that is now in custody was arrested."


https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zea ... ant=tb_v_1

absinthe beginner
* * * * *
Posts: 1537
Joined: Sun Jan 05, 2014 11:05 am
Favorite Zombie Movies: Shawn of the Dead
Location: Colorado

Re: New Zealand Mosque Shootings

Post by absinthe beginner » Thu Mar 21, 2019 7:03 am

New Zealand Bans Guns After Mass Shooting; All "Military-Style" And "Assault Rifles" Outlawed

https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-03- ... ult-rifles

New Zealand Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern announced the "first tranche" to reforms on gun laws - beginning with the immediate ban on the sale of semi-automatic and 'assault' rifles, six days after attacks on two mosques in Christchurch left 50 people dead. Notably, accused gunman Brenton Tarrant - specifically hoped his attack would lead to the restriction of gun rights.

"On 15 March, our history changed forever. Now, our laws will too," said Ardern. "We are announcing action today on behalf of all New Zealanders to strengthen our gun laws and make our country a safer place."

"The effect of this will mean that no one will be able to buy these weapons without a permit to procure from the police. I can assure people that there is no point in applying for such a permit," she said, adding "In short, every semi-automatic weapon used in the terrorist attack on Friday will be banned in this country."

MPMalloy
ZS Member
ZS Member
Posts: 4562
Joined: Mon Aug 22, 2005 2:48 am

Re: New Zealand Mosque Shootings

Post by MPMalloy » Thu Mar 21, 2019 11:19 am

I was sure that this would happen as soon as I heard of the shooting.

Emotional, reactionary gun-control.

User avatar
flybynight
* * * * *
Posts: 2954
Joined: Sun Dec 01, 2013 12:30 am

Re: New Zealand Mosque Shootings

Post by flybynight » Thu Mar 21, 2019 11:33 am

MPMalloy wrote:
Thu Mar 21, 2019 11:19 am
I was sure that this would happen as soon as I heard of the shooting.

Emotional, reactionary g̶u̶n̶-control.
fixed that for ya :oh:
As of now I bet you got me wrong

John Titor was right

User avatar
NT2C
ZS Global Moderator
ZS Global Moderator
Posts: 7941
Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2011 2:37 pm
Location: Outside of your jurisdiction officer

Re: New Zealand Mosque Shootings

Post by NT2C » Thu Mar 21, 2019 4:34 pm

absinthe beginner wrote:
Thu Mar 21, 2019 7:03 am
New Zealand Bans Guns After Mass Shooting; All "Military-Style" And "Assault Rifles" Outlawed

https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-03- ... ult-rifles

New Zealand Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern announced the "first tranche" to reforms on gun laws - beginning with the immediate ban on the sale of semi-automatic and 'assault' rifles, six days after attacks on two mosques in Christchurch left 50 people dead. Notably, accused gunman Brenton Tarrant - specifically hoped his attack would lead to the restriction of gun rights.

"On 15 March, our history changed forever. Now, our laws will too," said Ardern. "We are announcing action today on behalf of all New Zealanders to strengthen our gun laws and make our country a safer place."

"The effect of this will mean that no one will be able to buy these weapons without a permit to procure from the police. I can assure people that there is no point in applying for such a permit," she said, adding "In short, every semi-automatic weapon used in the terrorist attack on Friday will be banned in this country."
There is so much I want to say here, particularly regarding that highlighted quotation, but site rules forbid me, as well as the courtesy of not trying to tell other people how they should run their country. I will only say that such a statement here in the USA would not go over well.
Nonsolis Radios Sediouis Fulmina Mitto. - USN Gunner's Mate motto

Sic quemadmodum gladius neminem occidit; occidentis telum est - Seneca the Younger, Epistles

Post Reply

Return to “Disasters in Current Events”