Anti-vaxx Issues

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Anti-vaxx Issues

Post by NT2C » Mon Nov 12, 2018 12:03 pm

Okay, this is a hot-button topic and, truthfully, I wasn't sure just which sub to put it in since it could fit in a few. I think it fits best here but... please keep it civil.

To start things off:

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Re: Anti-vaxx Issues

Post by woodsghost » Mon Nov 12, 2018 12:11 pm

I'm not sure unimmunized children pose a risk to adults if those adults are immunized. But yeah, I understand the risk among children goes up if a bunch are not immunized.

What are they worried about immunizing against? I should read the article.


Ok, this makes no sense. I didn't see any reference to what is being vaccinated against. Flu? Ebola? Hepititus B? HPV?

I have no problem with discussion of vac/no vac. I have a huge problem with "I'm not coming to work unless ALL the children are vaccinated against ALL the things possible to get vaccinated for." Do they want the kids vaccinated against malria? Are they afaid of getting HPV from the kiddos? I hope not.

I'd like to see some more details before I took a side in this.

What about smallpox vaccines? Are they not going to work unless all the kids are getting smallpox vaccines? Because from what I"m reading, I don 't think smallpox is offered anymore, despite the fact it does, in fact...in theory?...exist.

I may just be strongly reacting to the "breaking story we are bringing you with absolutely no real detail" nature of this.
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Re: Anti-vaxx Issues

Post by NT2C » Mon Nov 12, 2018 1:00 pm

There's a lot more detail in the links found inside the story on the site. Essentially they want the typical childhood vaccinations and, just because they are adults does not mean they have full immunity to the viruses being inoculated against. They do mutate over time after all, and immunity can weaken in adults due to medications, etc. For example, if any of these teachers had a compromised immune system from cancer treatments. Another valid concern would be them bringing home a virus to their own children who may be too young to get vaccinated yet.

I'm no expert on the subject though, so take what I say about vaccinations with a grain of salt. It's just what I've learned from my own experiences, growing up with a mom who was an RN, and working as an EMT, all of which was well over 20 years ago now.
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Re: Anti-vaxx Issues

Post by woodsghost » Mon Nov 12, 2018 2:15 pm

I missed the links.

Anyway, the concerns you listed are fairly valid. If I had a compromised immune system I would NOT work in a school. There are plenty of diseases which one cannot vaccinate against and such a person would be at risk for a whole host of those.

Frankly, that is an issue for those with small children too. But hopefully those are less lethal or life changing. I really don't see much difference in risk level. People who work retail or a lot of other jobs are in similar positions to these teachers. I have worked a lot of germy jobs (including hospital janitor, which was educational, and retail, which was it's own educational experience).

I would not sign such a letter, but they didn't ask me too either. I support people's right to express their concerns to their employers. And I support the employers right to follow whatever steps are within local laws.

I'm interested in how this develops. Thanks for posting! I am interested to see how vaccination issues develop further in the US.
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Re: Anti-vaxx Issues

Post by Stercutus » Mon Nov 12, 2018 6:22 pm

There is a lot more going on here. This school district is plagued by issues.
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Re: Anti-vaxx Issues

Post by Evan the Diplomat » Tue Nov 13, 2018 10:06 am

I always tell people, I don’t have four children, I have four petri dishes. They catch a cold, and I get pneumonia.
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Re: Anti-vaxx Issues

Post by MPMalloy » Tue Nov 13, 2018 6:02 pm

Evan the Diplomat wrote:
Tue Nov 13, 2018 10:06 am
I always tell people, I don’t have four children, I have four petri dishes. They catch a cold, and I get pneumonia.
:lol:

Quite true, my good Sir. :)

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Re: Anti-vaxx Issues

Post by Ellywick » Fri Nov 16, 2018 6:07 am

woodsghost wrote:
Mon Nov 12, 2018 12:11 pm
What about smallpox vaccines? Are they not going to work unless all the kids are getting smallpox vaccines? Because from what I"m reading, I don 't think smallpox is offered anymore, despite the fact it does, in fact...in theory?...exist.
It is a ridiculous time in the morning to be up and I have trouble posting links and stuff on here, but you are correct, small pox vaccines are not given to people anymore because it is one of the only diseases to be considered "eradicated". The last natural case was in 1977. Last cases of accidental exposure in a lab was 1978.

However, it is still a highly infectious, deadly disease and now since no one gets the vaccine, we are all susceptible to it. And not just if it was being used as a biological weapon. Semi-recently I was reading (some article about an archaeological dig and a body that died from small pox in it) that it can stay viable enough someone could catch it from a body. There are some concerns about people being exposed to bodies and other things that could be infected with who knows what in areas of Siberia that are having a lot of melting. And the CDC and VECTOR in Russia (how cool an acronym is that?) are the only places that continue to carry samples of small pox for research in case of new outbreaks, mutatation, or if it was used as a biological weapon (as it was for centuries). I would guess more sites would.hopefully carry the vaccine though.

Recognize some thread drift here and not trying to sound paranoid like we are going to suddenly have a small pox outbreak. I just think in general people are becoming more lax on vaccinations and safeguarding against a lot of "ancient" diseases, which is scary to me. People don't seem to remember how disfiguring, debilitating, and deadly a lot of diseases can be. Plus, we've gotten really lazy assuming modern medicine can take care of what ails us. I've had people say stuff like, "Well, if my kids gets the mumps or measles it will be fine. They'll just be home for a while, I'll take them to the doctor, and then their immune system will be stronger." Sure, it's really smart to risk deafness, brain swelling/damage, infertility, or death for your kid just so you don't have to vaccinate. Awesome.

Sorry, getting off my soapbox now. Just feel.really strongly about vaccinations, especially childhood ones, and no anti-vaxxer has ever given me a convincing argument otherwise.

Also think getting so little sleep has caused me to go on a random rant when nothing rant-worthy was mentioned...oh, who am I kidding. I do that anyway, lol :D
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Re: Anti-vaxx Issues

Post by raptor » Sat Nov 17, 2018 1:20 am

I kinda roll my eyes when read about people concerned about vaccines. There is a reason people like Jonas Salk and others were the heroes of their day. The concern about the vaccine is nothing compared to the disease impacts.

Being something of a preps advocate. I personally remain up to date on all of the routine vaccinations as well as some of the less common ones for tropical diseases. It is a no brainer to me.

My comment about the risk associated with vacinnes is that there is risk in everything and that getting in your car to get and then eat a fast food burger is likely far riskier than side effects from mainstream vacinnes.

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Re: Anti-vaxx Issues

Post by DarkAxel » Sat Nov 17, 2018 8:32 am

A few thoughts.

People who choose not to vaccinate their kids are putting the lives of other kids who can't be vaccinated at risk. Children who are battling cancer or who have received organ transplants can't be vaccinated because their immune systems are shot due to chemo or immunosuppressant drugs.
Before antivaxers, these kids were protected by herd immunity, but the antivaxer movement is destroying that immunity.
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Re: Anti-vaxx Issues

Post by MPMalloy » Sat Nov 17, 2018 1:48 pm

Hey Everyone.

1st off, I get immunized & I believe that everyone should get immunized. These would be the standard immunizations. For some other diseases, I had more than one Physician tell me that people should not get some immunization if they are at not risk of being exposed to the disease. Some immunizations carry risks. Side effects. Adverse reactions. Some immunizations are good for life and some require boosters. When we were in garrison, I would work at a Troop Medical Clinic (TMC). A TMC provides in-garrison medical care for unit that did not have an organic medical element in their unit. Thursday afternoon we ran an immunization clinic. New arrivals, boosters, SD, deployments. Etc. Uncle Sam is keen on immunizations because historically, illness will kill/incapacitate more soldiers than enemy action would. There are standard shot series given during induction, advanced training, arriving at your duty station, & for deployments. I've seen people faint as a result of being immunized. Rare, but it happens. If you know you will faint, inform the HCP & you can lie on the exam bed. Easy-peasy. :wink:

This anti-vaxx thing is new to me. I don't know the argument. I do know that ZS is not the place to have the argument.

WebMD - Vaccines

CDC Vaccines

Get vaccinated. Get immunized. Normal life can be risky enough - Don't take a risk you don't have to take.

Immunizations are not silver bullets. Immunizations will reduce one's chances of contracting the illness & may reduce the severity of the effects.

Your flu shot will not give the flu.

Your Flu Shot Will Not Give You the Flu!

YOUR FLU SHOT WILL NOT GIVE YOU THE FLU!!!

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Last edited by MPMalloy on Sat Nov 17, 2018 11:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Anti-vaxx Issues

Post by Stercutus » Sat Nov 17, 2018 8:05 pm

This anti-vaxx thing is new to me. I don't know the argument. I do know that ZS is not the place to have the argument.

A fraudester falsified a study that vaccines cause autism and other medical problems. He was paid by lawyers intending to sue dug makers for the cash but the whole thing blew up on him. It has long been debunked but it hangs out there like a sulfuric cloud.

http://www.cnn.com/2011/HEALTH/01/05/au ... index.html

https://www.webmd.com/brain/autism/news ... dy-fraud#1


The other arguments are all political and best to steer clear.
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