2 days in a row... planes quarantined US.

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2 days in a row... planes quarantined US.

Post by Old_Man » Thu Sep 06, 2018 6:37 pm

Since my e-quake events got moved here... I guess this should be too...



Plane into NY from M.E.
https://newyork.cbslocal.com/2018/09/05 ... assengers/

2 planes into Philly
https://twitter.com/frantownsend/status ... 66112?s=21

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Re: 2 days in a row... planes quarantined US.

Post by NT2C » Thu Sep 06, 2018 8:58 pm

Old_Man wrote:
Thu Sep 06, 2018 6:37 pm
Since my e-quake events got moved here... I guess this should be too...



Plane into NY from M.E.
https://newyork.cbslocal.com/2018/09/05 ... assengers/

2 planes into Philly
https://twitter.com/frantownsend/status ... 66112?s=21
If this develops into more than bad airline food I'll move it to DICE
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Re: 2 days in a row... planes quarantined US.

Post by flybynight » Fri Sep 07, 2018 4:09 am

Well it's more than bad airline food. Some particularly nasty form of flu linked to the Mecca pilgrimage which just ended. No sign yet of MERS
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Re: 2 days in a row... planes quarantined US.

Post by NT2C » Fri Sep 07, 2018 10:49 am

flybynight wrote:
Fri Sep 07, 2018 4:09 am
Well it's more than bad airline food. Some particularly nasty form of flu linked to the Mecca pilgrimage which just ended. No sign yet of MERS
All aboard! Next stop D.I.C.E.

Passengers, please have your travel documents ready to produce when asked. Mind the gap and have a wonderful day.
Nonsolis Radios Sediouis Fulmina Mitto. - USN Gunner's Mate motto
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Re: 2 days in a row... planes quarantined US.

Post by Evan the Diplomat » Fri Sep 07, 2018 5:33 pm

Mid East Respiratory Syndrome or a mutation thereof is my first guess. I’m relieved that they caught this before people made connecting flights or to would be like that movie Contagion all over again and I can only watch Kate Winslet die in so just many movies before I lose it 😥
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Re: 2 days in a row... planes quarantined US.

Post by flybynight » Fri Sep 07, 2018 6:41 pm

Evan the Diplomat wrote:
Fri Sep 07, 2018 5:33 pm
Mid East Respiratory Syndrome or a mutation thereof is my first guess. I’m relieved that they caught this before people made connecting flights or to would be like that movie Contagion all over again and I can only watch Kate Winslet die in so just many movies before I lose it 😥
10 people from the plane were hospitalized. 19 refused treatment. Close to one hundred were reported to be showing signs of sickness during the flight. Tell me again how this was caught before the connecting flights.
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Re: 2 days in a row... planes quarantined US.

Post by Halfapint » Fri Sep 07, 2018 6:49 pm

flybynight wrote:
Fri Sep 07, 2018 6:41 pm
Evan the Diplomat wrote:
Fri Sep 07, 2018 5:33 pm
Mid East Respiratory Syndrome or a mutation thereof is my first guess. I’m relieved that they caught this before people made connecting flights or to would be like that movie Contagion all over again and I can only watch Kate Winslet die in so just many movies before I lose it 😥
10 people from the plane were hospitalized. 19 refused treatment. Close to one hundred were reported to be showing signs of sickness during the flight. Tell me again how this was caught before the connecting flights.
Agreed, I'm afraid we (airline employees) are going to have to do a bunch of "safety" briefs in in a week or so. Reminds me of the ebola panic a couple years ago, special kits were made up right about the time the panic was over.

As for passengers refusing treatment, is there protocol for forced hospitalization? Obviously they cant stay on the plane indefinitely. Does anyone know of a policy to which someone can be forced into a hospital stay over flu like symptoms?
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Re: 2 days in a row... planes quarantined US.

Post by NT2C » Fri Sep 07, 2018 7:13 pm

Halfapint wrote:
Fri Sep 07, 2018 6:49 pm
As for passengers refusing treatment, is there protocol for forced hospitalization? Obviously they cant stay on the plane indefinitely. Does anyone know of a policy to which someone can be forced into a hospital stay over flu like symptoms?
I was an EMT in NYC for 14 years. Yes, there is precedent and protocol in place for this. Where it gets dicey is if you're dealing with foreign nationals who are not immigrating. Then it's up to the NYC or NYS Department of Health how far they want to push it, and likely there will be at least one judge involved.
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Re: 2 days in a row... planes quarantined US.

Post by Halfapint » Fri Sep 07, 2018 7:20 pm

NT2C wrote:
Fri Sep 07, 2018 7:13 pm
Halfapint wrote:
Fri Sep 07, 2018 6:49 pm
As for passengers refusing treatment, is there protocol for forced hospitalization? Obviously they cant stay on the plane indefinitely. Does anyone know of a policy to which someone can be forced into a hospital stay over flu like symptoms?
I was an EMT in NYC for 14 years. Yes, there is precedent and protocol in place for this. Where it gets dicey is if you're dealing with foreign nationals who are not immigrating. Then it's up to the NYC or NYS Department of Health how far they want to push it, and likely there will be at least one judge involved.
Great, so Patient Zero is free to wonder about. That's comforting.
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Re: 2 days in a row... planes quarantined US.

Post by flybynight » Fri Sep 07, 2018 7:57 pm

Halfapint wrote:
Fri Sep 07, 2018 7:20 pm
NT2C wrote:
Fri Sep 07, 2018 7:13 pm
Halfapint wrote:
Fri Sep 07, 2018 6:49 pm
As for passengers refusing treatment, is there protocol for forced hospitalization? Obviously they cant stay on the plane indefinitely. Does anyone know of a policy to which someone can be forced into a hospital stay over flu like symptoms?
I was an EMT in NYC for 14 years. Yes, there is precedent and protocol in place for this. Where it gets dicey is if you're dealing with foreign nationals who are not immigrating. Then it's up to the NYC or NYS Department of Health how far they want to push it, and likely there will be at least one judge involved.
Great, so Patient Zero is free to wonder about. That's comforting.
Well in this case , patient zero... with at least an 8 in ront of the zero. The scary thing about this is were all the people sick on the flight ,sick before they boarded ? Or is this a strain of flu with an incubation of not day/days , but a couple hours. If that is the case, there will be no way to stop this. At least short of complete isolation of yourself and imediate family for weeks to months.
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Re: 2 days in a row... planes quarantined US.

Post by Halfapint » Fri Sep 07, 2018 8:19 pm

flybynight wrote:
Fri Sep 07, 2018 7:57 pm
Well in this case , patient zero... with at least an 8 in ront of the zero. The scary thing about this is were all the people sick on the flight ,sick before they boarded ? Or is this a strain of flu with an incubation of not day/days , but a couple hours. If that is the case, there will be no way to stop this. At least short of complete isolation of yourself and imediate family for weeks to months.
[/quote]

From my understanding this happened while on the pilgrimage to mecca. I'm they were exposed days ago, and started showing signs, then the pressurization on the plane exasperated the symptoms. The air on the planes (well 737 is what I know) is fully exchanged every 15 or so minutes (I believe 7 in the cockpit), but its dry which can really mess with people who are healthy.
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Re: 2 days in a row... planes quarantined US.

Post by Evan the Diplomat » Fri Sep 07, 2018 8:46 pm

We know who they are and we should know their destination, Dearborn or Toledo for example. So while they may have refused treatment at the port of entry, they should be in a medical surveillance protocol so when they show up at the ER coughing up a lung, the saw bones are not starting from zero. In addition, the 10 who were hospitalized should yield a lot of data on how to treat what ever it is.
flybynight wrote:
Fri Sep 07, 2018 6:41 pm
Evan the Diplomat wrote:
Fri Sep 07, 2018 5:33 pm
Mid East Respiratory Syndrome or a mutation thereof is my first guess. I’m relieved that they caught this before people made connecting flights or to would be like that movie Contagion all over again and I can only watch Kate Winslet die in so just many movies before I lose it 😥
10 people from the plane were hospitalized. 19 refused treatment. Close to one hundred were reported to be showing signs of sickness during the flight. Tell me again how this was caught before the connecting flights.
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Re: 2 days in a row... planes quarantined US.

Post by flybynight » Fri Sep 07, 2018 9:43 pm

If I got up walked outside and got in my truck and drove for forty-five minutes I could be standing right where this started. I see similarities to our current "protocol"

In 1918 the United States was involved in World War I, but was also dealing with the outbreak of a deadly influenza epidemic. The first cases of the outbreak were recorded in Haskell County, Kansas, and Fort Riley, Kansas, where young men were being hospitalized for severe flu-like symptoms. A local doctor sent a report to the Public Health Service, but no one was sent to investigate the situation. On March 4, 1918, an outbreak appeared at Fort Riley, with as many as 500 soldiers hospitalized within a week. Within a month, however, the number of patients dwindled and it seemed that the flu had passed its course. Many of these soldiers were sent to Europe to help fight in World War I. While in Europe the disease mutated and became deadly. By May many reports of soldiers falling ill were reaching the U.S. It did not take long for the disease to spread from the soldiers to the civilian population of Europe, and then around the world. Few areas remained unaffected, and there were recorded outbreaks in Asia, Africa, Europe, North and South America, as well as the Arctic and remote Pacific Islands.
The outbreak of 1918 was named the Spanish influenza. Although inaccurate, historians believe this name came from the lack of media censure in Spain when the disease hit. The virus mutated again and deaths were being reported in Boston, Massachusetts, by August. In September outbreaks were reported in California and Texas. By October 1918, 24 countries had reported cases of influenza, and many had several deaths. The Spanish influenza was different from other strains of the flu because of how quickly it passed from person to person and the age group it targeted. Most flu strains affect the very young, the elderly, and those without strong immune systems. The main victims of the Spanish influenza were aged from 20 to 40 and were typically healthy individuals.
In Fall 1918 the disease made its way back to Kansas and government officials were quick to take action against the spread of the disease. Dr. Samuel J. Crumbine was the secretary of the state board of health and began a campaign to keep the public in Kansas well aware and educated about the flu and what people could do to prevent it. However, despite these measures there were still hundreds of deaths reported in Kansas, and eventually health officers were forced to close individual cities. By closing schools, public gatherings, theaters, church services, and limiting the number of people in a store at a time, the government officials in Kansas hoped to limit the outbreak and prevent more people from becoming sick. Other countries were not so lucky, and although there is no official tally, it is estimated that the disease killed between 16 and 30 million people worldwide and was responsible for 675,000 deaths in the United States alone. The Spanish influenza was responsible for twice the number of casualties (both killed and wounded) of the United States in World War I, which totaled near 323,000.
A third and final wave of the epidemic hit in the spring of 1919, and many reported that it was so severe that people could wake up healthy and be dead by nightfall. By the end of spring the number of patients had dropped enough that officials lifted bans from their cities and states and people could resume school and church. Since the disease occurred at the same time as World War I, the epidemic was overshadowed. Although the epidemic only lasted a year, it left a large mark, both in America and worldwide.
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Re: 2 days in a row... planes quarantined US.

Post by Evan the Diplomat » Sat Sep 08, 2018 10:58 am

That is only a fraction of the story, as John Barry’s marvelously documented in his best seller The Great Influenza: The Epic Story of the Deadliest Epidemic in History. Medical fraud in the United States had not embraced germ theory. Most US health officials believed it was caused by “miasma” in other words bad air.

The Europeans, particularly the Germans,were far more advanced in research and pathology at the time.

I would like to think that a century of updated medical practices as well as health informatics would leave us far better than we were in 1918.

However, time will tell.
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Re: 2 days in a row... planes quarantined US.

Post by flybynight » Sat Sep 08, 2018 10:41 pm

I would like to think that a century of updated medical practices as well as health informatics would leave us far better than we were in 1918.


If that were true, why did we let half a plane load of sick people continue their travel ?
As of now I bet you got me wrong

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Re: 2 days in a row... planes quarantined US.

Post by Evan the Diplomat » Sun Sep 09, 2018 2:17 pm

Firstly, you’re exaggerating the numbers. Your own post shows 10 hospitalized, 19 refusing treatment. Another 100 reportedly showing signs of sickness. According to who? If you look into the follow up articles, you’ll see the numbers fall apart.

When I was the Command Duty Officer if the Navy, we had a slogan “The first report is always wrong” See article excerpt below.

Secondly, I hope you’re not advocating dettaining people and subjecting them to medical procedures without their consent. Absent identifying the pathogen, this could’ve been a common rhinovirus or even an allergic reaction.

Good health and safe travels to you all.

But the burgeoning horror story at John F. Kennedy International Airport deflated as new information came out. Ultimately, only 19 of the 549 people on the plane were sick when evaluated, according to the mayor’s press secretary. The city health department later added in a press conference that 10 of those people were taken to a hospital—seven crew members and three passengers—with symptoms pointing toward flu. Two hours after their 14-hour flight landed, the rest of the passengers got to leave. Read the full article here: https://www.theatlantic.com/health/arch ... fk/569404/

OR

The majority of sick passengers aboard a plane that was quarantined in New York have been diagnosed with “common viruses such as influenza and the common cold,” according to New York City's Health Department.

All tests for Middle East respiratory syndrome, or MERS, were negative, according to Tom Skinner, the spokesperson for The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

Read the complete article here: https://www.washingtonpost.com/transpor ... be045223b7
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