active shooter Parkland FL. High school

Stuff that’s happening in the world that may pertain to our survival. Please keep political debates off the forum.

Moderator: ZS Global Moderators

User avatar
flybynight
* * * * *
Posts: 2173
Joined: Sun Dec 01, 2013 12:30 am

active shooter Parkland FL. High school

Post by flybynight » Wed Feb 14, 2018 4:24 pm

As of now I bet you got me wrong

John Titor was right

User avatar
MacWa77ace
* * * * *
Posts: 1743
Joined: Fri Apr 20, 2012 10:39 am
Favorite Zombie Movies: The Omega Man, I Am Legend, Dawn of the Dead v1974.
Location: South East Florida
Contact:

Re: active shooter Parkland FL. High school

Post by MacWa77ace » Wed Feb 14, 2018 4:30 pm

This is 15 minutes from where I am sitting right now.

Suspect in custody. Numerous fatalities. Per the local news.

User avatar
12_Gauge_Chimp
ZS Lifetime Member
ZS Lifetime Member
Posts: 6383
Joined: Thu Apr 09, 2009 4:21 pm
Location: Middle of nowhere, West Texas
Contact:

Re: active shooter Parkland FL. High school

Post by 12_Gauge_Chimp » Wed Feb 14, 2018 6:37 pm

Last I heard, the fatalities were at 16 killed and I think 20 or so injured.

Some are saying killer was armed with a shotgun and possibly some kind of explosive device. Reports are still coming in, so it may be awhile until all the details come to light.

Still doesn't seem to stop folks from making wild assumptions and passing them off as fact.

User avatar
flybynight
* * * * *
Posts: 2173
Joined: Sun Dec 01, 2013 12:30 am

Re: active shooter Parkland FL. High school

Post by flybynight » Wed Feb 14, 2018 6:55 pm

there is cell phone footage from inside the classrooms surfacing . What I could hear it sounds like a handgun.


ETA with that said. News is saying he had a AR...
As of now I bet you got me wrong

John Titor was right

User avatar
Stercutus
* * * * *
Posts: 12121
Joined: Wed Feb 10, 2010 8:16 pm
Location: Bouncing in to Graceland

Re: active shooter Parkland FL. High school

Post by Stercutus » Wed Feb 14, 2018 8:13 pm

The news report stated that the Sheriff said it was an "AR-15 with multiple magazines". Strange that they would release such information so early but not unheard of.

Also saying it was a 19YO former student.
From this day to the ending of the world,
But we in it shall be rememberèd—
We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
Shall be my brother

User avatar
majorhavoc
ZS Donor
ZS Donor
Posts: 6771
Joined: Wed May 12, 2010 10:06 am
Favorite Zombie Movies: 28 Days Later, ZombieLand, Dawn of the Dead
Location: Maine

Re: active shooter Parkland FL. High school

Post by majorhavoc » Wed Feb 14, 2018 10:55 pm

I think I'm officially beyond my capacity to respond to this sort of thing in any meaningful way; I've just seen it too many times. And if I didn't know better, I'd say the frequency of these kinds of incidents is accelerating.

And I don't much care to know who it was or what was their motivation. Terrorist, misunderstood kid or disgruntled employee; none of it is going to make sense to me. It's a tragedy, it's senseless, yada yada yada. It's going to happen again.

Escape if you can. Otherwise hide. As a last resort, fight. And pray for the families. :(

User avatar
norcalprep
* *
Posts: 158
Joined: Tue Jan 25, 2011 4:48 pm

Re: active shooter Parkland FL. High school

Post by norcalprep » Thu Feb 15, 2018 7:39 am

majorhavoc wrote:And I don't much care to know who it was or what was their motivation. Terrorist, misunderstood kid or disgruntled employee; none of it is going to make sense to me. It's a tragedy, it's senseless, yada yada yada. It's going to happen again.
For me, I always want to know. Any information I can glean to help prevent or reduce another one is worth it. In 6 short months, my oldest enters the school system, with the youngest not too far behind. My wife and I are terrified.

User avatar
woodsghost
* * * * *
Posts: 2740
Joined: Thu May 16, 2013 3:45 pm

Re: active shooter Parkland FL. High school

Post by woodsghost » Thu Feb 15, 2018 7:58 am

norcalprep wrote:
majorhavoc wrote:And I don't much care to know who it was or what was their motivation. Terrorist, misunderstood kid or disgruntled employee; none of it is going to make sense to me. It's a tragedy, it's senseless, yada yada yada. It's going to happen again.
For me, I always want to know. Any information I can glean to help prevent or reduce another one is worth it. In 6 short months, my oldest enters the school system, with the youngest not too far behind. My wife and I are terrified.
Homeschooling is an option. To consider, anyway.


My thoughts on shooters and how we deal with things strays way into realms outside the rules of the forum, getting into both politics and religion. I'd like to see a greater emphasis on mental health care too. But nothing can make our world safe. It never has been. It never will be. I deal with that through faith. Not all of my world is peaches and roses, but that part is working out for me.
*Remember: I'm just a guy on the internet :)
*Don't go to stupid places with stupid people & do stupid things.
*Be courteous. Look normal. Be in bed by 10'clock.

“It's a dangerous business, Frodo, going out your door. You step onto the road, and if you don't keep your feet, there's no knowing where you might be swept off to.” -Bilbo Baggins.

User avatar
aikorob
* * *
Posts: 389
Joined: Fri Oct 11, 2013 9:28 pm

Re: active shooter Parkland FL. High school

Post by aikorob » Thu Feb 15, 2018 10:10 am

from Market-ticker.org:
Do any of you medical guys think he has a valid point?


Not Guns, DRUGS - Specifically, SSRIs


The usual sycophants are screaming for more gun control immediately, of course.

They are of course ignoring this: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/02/15/su ... -says.html

“I know she had been having some issues with them, especially the older one. He was being a problem. I know he did have some issues and he may have been taking medication.

"Rage Monster" medication?

You know, the same general class of medication that the Colmbine shooters were on?

They're called SSRIs and they're dangerous when taken by people under 25.

Why isn't the first line of inquiry finding out if this guy was on a class of drugs -- prescribed -- that are known to cause this behavior in a small percentage of people under the age of 25? If he was why aren't we holding the physician who prescribed them accountable as having prescribed a drug known to cause violence to someone in the known risk class -- and charging him or her as an accessory to murder before the fact?

I have long held and written in these pages that these drugs should only be prescribed to those under the age of 25 for those in residential facilities where they can be monitored 24x7. For reasons we do not understand these drugs stop having that side effect in full-fledged adults (although they still are implicated in potentiating suicides), but in teens and young adults they are dangerous in a small but non-zero percentage of those who use them in that they turn the user into a homicidal maniac.

They're handed out like candy for emotional disturbances and there is a very high correlation between people who do these things and their prescribed use. This crap must stop; these drugs may well be useful in an appropriate subset of the population but it simply must not include those under the age of 25 who are not institutionalized.

Psychotropic medication, specifically in this case SSRIs, are dangerous in those under the age of 25 in that there is a known small but real risk of them potentiating a "Rage Monster" when given to people in this age group. This risk is on the label and prescribing information but we still hand this crap out to kids and near-kids and there appears to be no good way to know who will have that sort of reaction to consuming them.

This must be stopped right damn now. How many rage monsters do we have to create before we ban the prescribing of these drugs to that age group and start charging physicians and other 'professionals' who write said scripts with being accessories before the fact to acts of violence perpetrated by their patients if they prescribe them anyway?

While it is not yet confirmed that Cruz was on one of these drugs it's a decent bet he was and you can also bet the media will not dig into it and the FBI and other authorities will try to keep that information from coming out, if it is in fact the case.

This we must not tolerate.

Second, since we're on the subject of the medical "scam" system in this nation and its likely complicity in this event may I note that in the time between the shooting and this morning more Americans died from the medical monopolists in preventable "errors" and in fact more die this way every single day. Worse, they die after being asset-stripped, in many cases to the tune of hundreds of thousands of dollars, yet not one person is ever charged in such deaths.

Why not? Those who prescribe SSRIs to teens are not Marcus Welby, they're Josef Mengele -- as are those in the medical system who do things like performing an optional surgery on someone with congestive heart failure, pancreatitis and cirrhosis instead of first draining the tens of pounds of fluid from that person's abdomen, stabilizing those other conditions and demanding the person stop drinking and thus grossly reduce the risk of complications -- complications that in the instant case I'm familiar with did happen, nearly killed said person and ran up a six-figure hospital bill they sent to the taxpayers because they "decided" to do the original operation despite actual knowledge of these co-morbidities and the grossly-increased risk they presented.

When it comes to guns there are 50,000 gun laws on the books. The Second Amendment says every one of them is unconstitutional but we don't care; we pass them anyway. They will never stop someone from committing an act like this for the simple reason that someone willing to commit murder does not care how many other laws they violate first. Adam Lanza killed his mother to get her gun; he clearly did not give a crap about gun laws and neither have any of the others who have done similar things.

Finally, let me note this: Every single cop who showed up did not do so with a baseball bat; they all came with guns. If we are not going to stop prescribing these drugs to teens and young adults then the only other alternative is for damn near every adult in every school and other "soft target" like this must be armed and prepared to offer meaningful resistance if such a jackass shows up.

You do not stop a madman with a gun with harsh language just like you don't stop a charging grizzly bear by talking with it.

You shoot him.

I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they’ve always worked for me.

User avatar
emclean
* * * * *
Posts: 1518
Joined: Fri Jun 15, 2007 1:31 pm
Favorite Zombie Movies: Fido
Zombieland
Location: NW Indiana

Re: active shooter Parkland FL. High school

Post by emclean » Thu Feb 15, 2018 10:13 am

majorhavoc wrote:I think I'm officially beyond my capacity to respond to this sort of thing in any meaningful way; I've just seen it too many times. And if I didn't know better, I'd say the frequency of these kinds of incidents is accelerating.
a listing of school shootings going back to 1764.
they have been around more than most realized (a lot more than I realized), but with eth 24 hour news cycle, every incident is talked about a lot.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/School_sh ... ates#1970s

less than 12 hours from incident to the release of his name. if he cant get famous, he is instantly infamous.

User avatar
emclean
* * * * *
Posts: 1518
Joined: Fri Jun 15, 2007 1:31 pm
Favorite Zombie Movies: Fido
Zombieland
Location: NW Indiana

Re: active shooter Parkland FL. High school

Post by emclean » Thu Feb 15, 2018 10:20 am

aikorob wrote:from Market-ticker.org:
Do any of you medical guys think he has a valid point?

Not Guns, DRUGS - Specifically, SSRIs
the cause and effect are not known. are the people on the meds cause the have mental issues, or are the mental issues made worse by the meds.

- I am not a doctor, nor do I play one on TV.

User avatar
JayceSlayn
* * *
Posts: 586
Joined: Wed Mar 05, 2008 3:07 pm
Location: North Carolina

Re: active shooter Parkland FL. High school

Post by JayceSlayn » Thu Feb 15, 2018 10:28 am

aikorob wrote:from Market-ticker.org:
Do any of you medical guys think he has a valid point?
I am only tangentially a medical person, and I know we have more qualified people amongst our ZS brethren, but most SSRIs do have black box warnings indicating the potential increase of depression and suicidal ideation in younger age groups. (E.g. https://reference.medscape.com/drug/zol ... e-342962#5) Given the significant use of SSRIs within that age group still, I'm sure there is a pretty good meta-analysis somewhere showing that their potential beneficial use is on-whole acceptable (outweighing the risk of a small percentage of serious side-effects), provided that the advised best practices are followed, which includes monitoring and adjustment or termination of treatment. There are some that are not FDA approved for use in pediatric patients as well (E.g. https://reference.medscape.com/drug/cel ... m-342958#5).

I think medical professionals are still the most qualified to make these case-by-case decisions on the usage of these drugs for their patients, but I understand that they are fallible humans as well. Other than letting the appropriate drug regulation agencies continue to monitor their use and provide policy guidelines to physicians, I don't think there is a clear case to call for their outright ban in the younger population.

Again, that's only my not-a-professional opinion though.
Rahul Telang wrote:If you don’t have a plan in place, you will find different ways to screw it up
Colin Wilson wrote:There’s no point in kicking a dead horse. If the horse is up and ready and you give it a slap on the bum, it will take off. But if it’s dead, even if you slap it, it’s not going anywhere.

User avatar
CG
* * *
Posts: 750
Joined: Sun Oct 01, 2006 7:00 pm
Location: Middle of a Haboob, Texas

Re: active shooter Parkland FL. High school

Post by CG » Thu Feb 15, 2018 10:42 am

JayceSlayn wrote:
aikorob wrote:from Market-ticker.org:
Do any of you medical guys think he has a valid point?
I am only tangentially a medical person, and I know we have more qualified people amongst our ZS brethren, but most SSRIs do have black box warnings indicating the potential increase of depression and suicidal ideation in younger age groups. (E.g. https://reference.medscape.com/drug/zol ... e-342962#5) Given the significant use of SSRIs within that age group still, I'm sure there is a pretty good meta-analysis somewhere showing that their potential beneficial use is on-whole acceptable (outweighing the risk of a small percentage of serious side-effects), provided that the advised best practices are followed, which includes monitoring and adjustment or termination of treatment. There are some that are not FDA approved for use in pediatric patients as well (E.g. https://reference.medscape.com/drug/cel ... m-342958#5).

I think medical professionals are still the most qualified to make these case-by-case decisions on the usage of these drugs for their patients, but I understand that they are fallible humans as well. Other than letting the appropriate drug regulation agencies continue to monitor their use and provide policy guidelines to physicians, I don't think there is a clear case to call for their outright ban in the younger population.


Again, that's only my not-a-professional opinion though.
I think they need to figure out what is going on with them. The lists that I have seen show that the vast majority of those who have carried out a mass shooting since Columbine have been on or coming off SSRIs or other psych meds. The few who weren't seem to be either religiously motivated or should have been getting psychiatric treatment for paranoia, bipolar, etc.

I don't think the situation is going to improve until the U.S. makes mental health a real priority and starts using non-pharmaceutical interventions first.
Mater tua caligas gerit!

...I'm sorry, I wasn't paying attention to what I was thinking.

User avatar
JayceSlayn
* * *
Posts: 586
Joined: Wed Mar 05, 2008 3:07 pm
Location: North Carolina

Re: active shooter Parkland FL. High school

Post by JayceSlayn » Thu Feb 15, 2018 10:45 am

CG wrote:
JayceSlayn wrote:
aikorob wrote:from Market-ticker.org:
Do any of you medical guys think he has a valid point?
I am only tangentially a medical person, and I know we have more qualified people amongst our ZS brethren, but most SSRIs do have black box warnings indicating the potential increase of depression and suicidal ideation in younger age groups. (E.g. https://reference.medscape.com/drug/zol ... e-342962#5) Given the significant use of SSRIs within that age group still, I'm sure there is a pretty good meta-analysis somewhere showing that their potential beneficial use is on-whole acceptable (outweighing the risk of a small percentage of serious side-effects), provided that the advised best practices are followed, which includes monitoring and adjustment or termination of treatment. There are some that are not FDA approved for use in pediatric patients as well (E.g. https://reference.medscape.com/drug/cel ... m-342958#5).

I think medical professionals are still the most qualified to make these case-by-case decisions on the usage of these drugs for their patients, but I understand that they are fallible humans as well. Other than letting the appropriate drug regulation agencies continue to monitor their use and provide policy guidelines to physicians, I don't think there is a clear case to call for their outright ban in the younger population.


Again, that's only my not-a-professional opinion though.
I think they need to figure out what is going on with them. The lists that I have seen show that the vast majority of those who have carried out a mass shooting since Columbine have been on or coming off SSRIs or other psych meds. The few who weren't seem to be either religiously motivated or should have been getting psychiatric treatment for paranoia, bipolar, etc.

I don't think the situation is going to improve until the U.S. makes mental health a real priority and starts using non-pharmaceutical interventions first.
I definitely agree that mental health care is inadequate. I think there are a variety of structural and societal reasons why it in that state, but we could do all of ourselves well to improve it.
Rahul Telang wrote:If you don’t have a plan in place, you will find different ways to screw it up
Colin Wilson wrote:There’s no point in kicking a dead horse. If the horse is up and ready and you give it a slap on the bum, it will take off. But if it’s dead, even if you slap it, it’s not going anywhere.

User avatar
12_Gauge_Chimp
ZS Lifetime Member
ZS Lifetime Member
Posts: 6383
Joined: Thu Apr 09, 2009 4:21 pm
Location: Middle of nowhere, West Texas
Contact:

Re: active shooter Parkland FL. High school

Post by 12_Gauge_Chimp » Thu Feb 15, 2018 1:31 pm

emclean wrote:
majorhavoc wrote:I think I'm officially beyond my capacity to respond to this sort of thing in any meaningful way; I've just seen it too many times. And if I didn't know better, I'd say the frequency of these kinds of incidents is accelerating.
a listing of school shootings going back to 1764.
they have been around more than most realized (a lot more than I realized), but with eth 24 hour news cycle, every incident is talked about a lot.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/School_sh ... ates#1970s

less than 12 hours from incident to the release of his name. if he cant get famous, he is instantly infamous.
This is what pisses me off after things like this. The first thing that happens after the murders is the media rushes to plaster the killer's face all over the evening news or the internet.

I say this pretty much every time something like this happens and it's getting tiring, but I'd rather never know the name of the killer and I for damn sure would rather never see their faces plastered all over my news feed.

And I'd prefer that the media stop giving these jerks (I want to use a harsher name, but I realize folks read ZS at work, so for them I'll use a politer term) their 15 minutes of fame.

My heart aches for the families who were torn apart yesterday by an act of senseless violence perpetrated by a poor excuse of a human.

On the other end, my heart burns with anger at the killer and this horrible act of violence they committed for no reason other than to inflict harm upon others.

User avatar
raptor
ZS Global Moderator
ZS Global Moderator
Posts: 16181
Joined: Sun Mar 04, 2007 10:18 pm
Location: Greater New Orleans Area

Re: active shooter Parkland FL. High school

Post by raptor » Thu Feb 15, 2018 8:34 pm

12_Gauge_Chimp wrote:
This is what pisses me off after things like this. The first thing that happens after the murders is the media rushes to plaster the killer's face all over the evening news or the internet.

I say this pretty much every time something like this happens and it's getting tiring, but I'd rather never know the name of the killer and I for damn sure would rather never see their faces plastered all over my news feed.

And I'd prefer that the media stop giving these jerks (I want to use a harsher name, but I realize folks read ZS at work, so for them I'll use a politer term) their 15 minutes of fame.
QFT

Thank you everyone for not posting the scumbag's name in the forum. Please feel free to use an appropriate profanity instead of the name.

User avatar
Stercutus
* * * * *
Posts: 12121
Joined: Wed Feb 10, 2010 8:16 pm
Location: Bouncing in to Graceland

Re: active shooter Parkland FL. High school

Post by Stercutus » Fri Feb 16, 2018 5:00 am

As it turns out, death threats against schools are not funny jokes after all.

http://www.bradenton.com/news/local/art ... 54934.html
From this day to the ending of the world,
But we in it shall be rememberèd—
We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
Shall be my brother

User avatar
dogbane
* * * * *
Posts: 14365
Joined: Sun Feb 10, 2008 10:44 pm
Favorite Zombie Movies: the usual ones
Location: Dogbane Patch, Carolina Piedmont

Re: active shooter Parkland FL. High school

Post by dogbane » Fri Feb 16, 2018 8:37 am

Study after study, beginning at least with a 2001 Surgeon General's report, shows that social rejection has a stronger correlation with adolescent violence than most other variables, including poverty, gang activity, and drug use.

Here is just one example:
People who feel socially rejected are more likely to see others' actions as hostile and are more likely to behave in hurtful ways toward people they have never even met, according to a new study.

The findings may help explain why social exclusion is often linked to aggression – which sometimes boils over dramatically, as in the case of school shootings, for example.

"Prior case studies show the majority of school shooters have experienced chronic peer rejection," said the study's lead author, C. Nathan DeWall, Ph.D., from the University of Kentucky. "And while not everyone who feels rejected reacts violently, we found they tend to act out aggressively in other ways. We wanted to help explain psychologically why this happens." A full report of the study appears in the January issue of the Journal of Personality and Social Psychology, published by the American Psychological Association.

DeWall conducted four separate experiments with 190 participants, all college students.

In one experiment, 30 participants completed a personality test and were given bogus feedback about the results. A third of the participants, the excluded group, were told their personalities would mean they would probably end up alone later in life. The rest of the participants, the control group, were either told they would have many lasting and meaningful relationships or were given no feedback at all.

All participants were then instructed to read a personal essay supposedly written by another participant, whom they did not know. The essay was about an event in which the author's actions could be perceived as either assertive or hostile and the participants rated their impression of the author's actions. They were also told that the author was up for a research assistant position and were asked whether they thought the author would be a good candidate, based on what they had read.

Participants who were told they were going to have a lonely life perceived the author's actions as significantly more hostile and gave a much more negative evaluation than those in the control groups. The authors also note that the participants' moods did not seem to differ among the different groups, which led them to conclude that the participants' emotional response to their personality results did not play a role in how they performed in the experiments.

In another experiment, 32 students underwent the same bogus personality evaluation and rated the same essay from the previous experiment. Again, some were told they would lead a lonely life while others were assigned to the control groups. This time, participants were led to believe they were playing a reaction-time computer game with another person in the lab whom they could not see and had never met. During the game, the loser of each trial was forced to listen to a blast of white noise through headphones. The participants could set the noise's intensity level and duration.

Those who were told they were going to have a lonely life blasted a higher level of the painful noise than those in the control groups. "Across all experiments, the participants who experienced some form of social rejection acted in similar ways," said DeWall. "This suggests these people feel betrayed by others. In turn, they see otherwise neutral actions as hostile and behave badly towards others."

Prior research has examined whether emotions play a role in this type of aggression, but this study's researchers say their findings do not support this idea. "Excluded people see the world through blood-colored glasses and it is our hope that this research can lead to a better understanding of why rejection causes aggression and what we can do to prevent such unwanted and harmful behavior," said DeWall.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2 ... 122936.htm
We also know that loneliness is deadly.

This suggests that the solutions are necessarily complex and must be community-based.

User avatar
RickOShea
ZS Lifetime Member
ZS Lifetime Member
Posts: 8648
Joined: Mon Jul 13, 2009 5:24 pm
Location: Gulf Coast, AL

Re: active shooter Parkland FL. High school

Post by RickOShea » Fri Feb 16, 2018 1:46 pm

NY Times - F.B.I Was Warned of Florida Suspect’s Desire to Kill but Did Not Act


The F.B.I. failed to act on a tip in January from a person close to the suspect warning that he owned a gun and might conduct a school shooting, the bureau acknowledged on Friday, in its first admission that it might have been able to prevent the deadly attack at a Florida high school.

The tipster said the suspect had a “desire to kill people, erratic behavior, and disturbing social media posts” and advised the F.B.I. of “the potential of him conducting a school shooting,” the agency said in a statement.

The information should have been assessed and forwarded to the Miami F.B.I. field office, the agency said. “We have determined that these protocols were not followed for the information received,” the agency said. “The information was not provided to the F.B.I. Miami field office, and no further investigation was conducted at that time.”
whisk.e.rebellion wrote: It's not what you say anymore. It's how you say it.

Image ............................................................................................................................................................................................Image

User avatar
Stercutus
* * * * *
Posts: 12121
Joined: Wed Feb 10, 2010 8:16 pm
Location: Bouncing in to Graceland

Re: active shooter Parkland FL. High school

Post by Stercutus » Fri Feb 16, 2018 1:54 pm

dogbane wrote:Study after study, beginning at least with a 2001 Surgeon General's report, shows that social rejection has a stronger correlation with adolescent violence than most other variables, including poverty, gang activity, and drug use.



This suggests that the solutions are necessarily complex and must be community-based.


While not arguing against the well established link between poverty and crime I will say that mass shooting after mass shooting has shown us the same thing practically every single time:

- Disturbingly mentally ill
- Well over 90% of the time being medicated and not under treatment
- Everybody knew he was a problem and everyone was either powerless legally to stop him or didn't go the extra mile

And

- No one wants to do anything about it afterwards.
From this day to the ending of the world,
But we in it shall be rememberèd—
We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
Shall be my brother

User avatar
flybynight
* * * * *
Posts: 2173
Joined: Sun Dec 01, 2013 12:30 am

Re: active shooter Parkland FL. High school

Post by flybynight » Fri Feb 16, 2018 2:06 pm

Stercutus wrote:
dogbane wrote:Study after study, beginning at least with a 2001 Surgeon General's report, shows that social rejection has a stronger correlation with adolescent violence than most other variables, including poverty, gang activity, and drug use.



This suggests that the solutions are necessarily complex and must be community-based.


While not arguing against the well established link between poverty and crime I will say that mass shooting after mass shooting has shown us the same thing practically every single time:

- Disturbingly mentally ill
- Well over 90% of the time being medicated and not under treatment
- Everybody knew he was a problem and everyone was either powerless legally to stop him or didn't go the extra mile
Ya gotta wonder how these kids are falling through the cracks. This kid might as well have wore a sign saying I NEED HELP !
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/breaking ... li=BBnb7Kz
As of now I bet you got me wrong

John Titor was right

User avatar
woodsghost
* * * * *
Posts: 2740
Joined: Thu May 16, 2013 3:45 pm

Re: active shooter Parkland FL. High school

Post by woodsghost » Fri Feb 16, 2018 2:37 pm

flybynight wrote:
Stercutus wrote:
dogbane wrote:Study after study, beginning at least with a 2001 Surgeon General's report, shows that social rejection has a stronger correlation with adolescent violence than most other variables, including poverty, gang activity, and drug use.



This suggests that the solutions are necessarily complex and must be community-based.


While not arguing against the well established link between poverty and crime I will say that mass shooting after mass shooting has shown us the same thing practically every single time:

- Disturbingly mentally ill
- Well over 90% of the time being medicated and not under treatment
- Everybody knew he was a problem and everyone was either powerless legally to stop him or didn't go the extra mile
Ya gotta wonder how these kids are falling through the cracks. This kid might as well have wore a sign saying I NEED HELP !
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/breaking ... li=BBnb7Kz

Caring is expensive and time consuming. Most disturbed people don't do this stuff so why waste resources on them? [\sarcasim]

I do think we have increased our social isolation and part of the solution is us, personally, getting involved in the lives of those who suffer. I have done a lot in that department, and will keep trying. But it does eat up time and energy which could be spent elsewhere.
*Remember: I'm just a guy on the internet :)
*Don't go to stupid places with stupid people & do stupid things.
*Be courteous. Look normal. Be in bed by 10'clock.

“It's a dangerous business, Frodo, going out your door. You step onto the road, and if you don't keep your feet, there's no knowing where you might be swept off to.” -Bilbo Baggins.

User avatar
RonnyRonin
* * * * *
Posts: 1543
Joined: Thu May 28, 2009 8:11 pm
Favorite Zombie Movies: zombieland wasn't bad, but shaun started it for me.
Location: Front Range, CO

Re: active shooter Parkland FL. High school

Post by RonnyRonin » Fri Feb 16, 2018 3:03 pm

Stercutus wrote: - Everybody knew he was a problem and everyone was either powerless legally to stop him or didn't go the extra mile
I think this is many cases, but not sure if it amounts to the vast majority. In many cases it seems only a few people are concerned, and sometimes not even close family suspect anything.
dogbane wrote:....social rejection has a stronger correlation with adolescent violence than most other variables...
Lets be honest, the people that need social inclusion the most need it because they are likely exhausting to be around at best and down right unpleasant at worst. Being associated with unpleasant people with possible radical beliefs can have a social cost beyond the upfront effort of interacting with them as well. I agree this is likely the most holistic solution, and perhaps the best outcome on paper but it does require a level of selflessness that many (myself first and foremost) likely are not willing to put forth on a reliable basis. ANY effort in this direction though is likely not wasted, and should be encouraged wherever and whenever possible.
share your tobacco and your kindling, but never your sauna or your woman.

AK, Glock, Pie.

User avatar
Stercutus
* * * * *
Posts: 12121
Joined: Wed Feb 10, 2010 8:16 pm
Location: Bouncing in to Graceland

Re: active shooter Parkland FL. High school

Post by Stercutus » Fri Feb 16, 2018 3:42 pm

woodsghost wrote:
flybynight wrote:
Stercutus wrote:
dogbane wrote:Study after study, beginning at least with a 2001 Surgeon General's report, shows that social rejection has a stronger correlation with adolescent violence than most other variables, including poverty, gang activity, and drug use.



This suggests that the solutions are necessarily complex and must be community-based.


While not arguing against the well established link between poverty and crime I will say that mass shooting after mass shooting has shown us the same thing practically every single time:

- Disturbingly mentally ill
- Well over 90% of the time being medicated and not under treatment
- Everybody knew he was a problem and everyone was either powerless legally to stop him or didn't go the extra mile
Ya gotta wonder how these kids are falling through the cracks. This kid might as well have wore a sign saying I NEED HELP !
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/breaking ... li=BBnb7Kz

Caring is expensive and time consuming. Most disturbed people don't do this stuff so why waste resources on them? [\sarcasim]

I do think we have increased our social isolation and part of the solution is us, personally, getting involved in the lives of those who suffer. I have done a lot in that department, and will keep trying. But it does eat up time and energy which could be spent elsewhere.
The cracks in our mental health system are disturbingly bad. The state doesn't want to assume responsibility for those requiring treatment because most are like this man was; essentially homeless and without enough resources to get help. Taxpayers don't want to pay for it because many of the seriously disturbed require life long care. So, when we live in a free society we are rolling the dice that bad things won't happen. Most of the time bad things don't happen, but when they do you get this.

Because mental health has been so neglected for so long professionals in the field are among the lowest paid in any medical field with comparable degrees.

There is no bright spot here.
From this day to the ending of the world,
But we in it shall be rememberèd—
We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
Shall be my brother

Post Reply

Return to “Disasters in Current Events”