Church shooting

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Church shooting

Post by MPMalloy » Sun Nov 05, 2017 4:23 pm

NPR & CNBC are reporting that there has been a shooting in a small church 30 miles south or southeast of San Antonio, TX.

It was a small town. 20 dead. 20 wounded.

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Re: Church shooting

Post by 12_Gauge_Chimp » Sun Nov 05, 2017 4:43 pm

MPMalloy wrote:NPR & CNBC are reporting that there has been a shooting in a small church 30 miles south or southeast of San Antonio, TX.

It was a small town. 20 dead. 20 wounded.
The town is called Sutherland Springs. Last I heard, the death toll was around 25 or so, including a 2 year old child.

Shooter fled the scene and was killed after a high speed chase with police. So far the bastard's identity hasn't been released to the press yet and the motive for the murders is still unknown.

I've heard rumors that the murderer was chased off by armed members of the church and he (news is saying the killer was male) then encountered police, leading to the chase and his subsequent death.


ETA: I'd avoid the comment sections on any of the articles about this, by the way. There's just so much stupidity in there, it'll make your blood pressure rise.

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Re: Church shooting

Post by MPMalloy » Sun Nov 05, 2017 4:54 pm

12_Gauge_Chimp wrote:ETA: I'd avoid the comment sections on any of the articles about this, by the way. There's just so much stupidity in there, it'll make your blood pressure rise.
Right there with ya.

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Re: Church shooting

Post by majorhavoc » Sun Nov 05, 2017 5:56 pm

Shooter's identity has now been released, but I'll be damned if I ever allow that name to cross my lips (or keyboard). Just gives them the recognition that their warped psyche craved in the first place.

I come to ZS after these events because I understand the mass murderer scenario is just another contingency we must prep for. This type of thing has long past moved beyond the stuff of theoretical, fanciful or paranoid; mass killings have become all too real in today's world.

And yet while I come to these forums for concrete, rational discussions on how to prepare for this type of thing, whenever I try to add to the dialog all I can muster is a deep sense of sadness. Followed by anger, and then by resignation. No, not again, I always find myself thinking. Please, not again.

ETA: And why, why must the press always publish the perp's name? I'm all for journalistic principles and the public's right to know, but isn't it beyond debate that publishing the killer's name only serves to encourage frail psyches to emulate these kinds of crimes? I sometimes wish journalists as a profession would grow a pair and all agree to henceforth universally refer to any mass murderer (terrorist/lone wolf/fruitcake/or otherwise) as "Fucker McFucker-Pants". Society as a whole would be far better off.

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Re: Church shooting

Post by RonnyRonin » Sun Nov 05, 2017 7:00 pm

Just listened to parts of the the press conference, few strange things about this case:

1) sounds as if the perp did not enter the church, but fired from outside.

2) perp was wearing armor (I'll wait before I accept this for fact, but it was officially announced)

Sounds as if a "local citizen" not in the church saw him open fire and engaged him with a rifle, they aren't sure if he killed himself after the chase or died from wounds inflicted by the citizen.
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Re: Church shooting

Post by 12_Gauge_Chimp » Sun Nov 05, 2017 7:07 pm

majorhavoc wrote:Shooter's identity has now been released, but I'll be damned if I ever allow that name to cross my lips (or keyboard). Just gives them the recognition that their warped psyche craved in the first place.

I come to ZS after these events because I understand the mass murderer scenario is just another contingency we must prep for. This type of thing has long past moved beyond the stuff of theoretical, fanciful or paranoid; mass killings have become all too real in today's world.

And yet while I come to these forums for concrete, rational discussions on how to prepare for this type of thing, whenever I try to add to the dialog all I can muster is a deep sense of sadness. Followed by anger, and then by resignation. No, not again, I always find myself thinking. Please, not again.

ETA: And why, why must the press always publish the perp's name? I'm all for journalistic principles and the public's right to know, but isn't it beyond debate that publishing the killer's name only serves to encourage frail psyches to emulate these kinds of crimes? I sometimes wish journalists as a profession would grow a pair and all agree to henceforth universally refer to any mass murderer (terrorist/lone wolf/fruitcake/or otherwise) as "Fucker McFucker-Pants". Society as a whole would be far better off.
From this day forth, I shall refer to anyone who commits a heinous act like this as "Fucker McFuckerPants" instead of their actual name.

Seems to be more fitting.

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Re: Church shooting

Post by majorhavoc » Sun Nov 05, 2017 8:20 pm

RonnyRonin wrote:Sounds as if a "local citizen" not in the church saw him open fire and engaged him with a rifle, they aren't sure if he killed himself after the chase or died from wounds inflicted by the citizen.
I'd about give my left nut right now to know it was indeed the armed citizen who stopped him. I'm desperate for any kind of silver lining in this sort of scenario.

And another thing:
[From CNN.com] "It's the deadliest mass shooting in Texas history -- and the fifth deadliest in modern US history." It doesn't take a trained social psychologist to know that this ridiculous ranking of these mass murders only encourages would-be copycats to try to one up the last killer, or at least crack the top ten. This isn't a goddamned sports contest; why are we keeping score?
Last edited by majorhavoc on Mon Nov 06, 2017 10:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Church shooting

Post by raptor » Sun Nov 05, 2017 8:59 pm

I never write the names of scumbags who commit vile acts; however I agree Fucker McFuckerpants or MFMFP for the sake of brevity is a better name.

I offer prayers for the innocent lives taken by this vile MF. I can offer no logic from what I have read thus far, beyond evil incarnate acting physically.

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Re: Church shooting

Post by 91Eunozs » Sun Nov 05, 2017 11:36 pm

Don’t know any of the folks involved (yet), but the (alleged) douchebag shooter is from my town... And reportedly booted from MY Air Force a couple of years ago for beating his wife and child.

His MIL is from the town where he shot up the church... Purely supposition, but wouldn’t be surprised if his (ex?) wife and child were there, or attended that church regularly.

Regardless... scumbag coward.

Reportedly served a year in prison before being punted on a dishonorable discharge, which would indicate a Felony conviction. It’ll be interesting to see how that angle plays out.
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Re: Church shooting

Post by MPMalloy » Sun Nov 05, 2017 11:56 pm

91Eunozs wrote:Reportedly served a year in prison before being punted on a dishonorable discharge, which would indicate a Felony conviction. It’ll be interesting to see how that angle plays out.
A dishonorable discharge is a felony conviction. No 2A rights for him anymore.

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Re: Church shooting

Post by 12_Gauge_Chimp » Mon Nov 06, 2017 12:56 am

MPMalloy wrote:
91Eunozs wrote:Reportedly served a year in prison before being punted on a dishonorable discharge, which would indicate a Felony conviction. It’ll be interesting to see how that angle plays out.
A dishonorable discharge is a felony conviction. No 2A rights for him anymore.
Given what happened today, I don't think that really matters to him anymore.

It sure as hell didn't matter to him when he decided to shoot up a church full of innocent people.

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Re: Church shooting

Post by TacAir » Mon Nov 06, 2017 1:56 am

The real "First Responder" was a local with his own rifle. Fired up the a-hole.

He and another local chased the shooter til he crash - and kept him at gun point until LEO showed up.

From the Rangers-
Today's mass shooting in Sutherland Springs, Texas, was only halted after an armed Texan "engaged" the killer and put an end to the rampage, the Texas Rangers reported. Freeman Martin, a major in the Texas Rangers and a spokesman for the Texas Department of Public Safety, says the suspect dropped his rifle and fled after being confronted by a local man who had grabbed his rifle. Freeman provided a timeline of the tragedy in a press briefing Sunday evening.
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Re: Church shooting

Post by MPMalloy » Mon Nov 06, 2017 2:05 am

NPR is saying that the shooter received a BCD, so he still had his rights.

He did 12 months for spousal abuse.

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Re: Church shooting

Post by Stercutus » Mon Nov 06, 2017 6:40 am

MPMalloy wrote:NPR is saying that the shooter received a BCD, so he still had his rights.

He did 12 months for spousal abuse.
No, if he was court martialed for assault and did a year it would be a felony.
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Re: Church shooting

Post by Boom40mm » Mon Nov 06, 2017 7:51 am

I thought domestic violence was grounds for forfeiture of ones second amendment rights? Being unable to qualify/perform duties as a rifleman was a big part of why people were discharged for it (I thought?)

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Re: Church shooting

Post by raptor » Mon Nov 06, 2017 12:50 pm

More info on the matter and on the MF.

The MF's dishonorable discharge and jail time apparently was not flagged as such.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... arges.html


A link to the heroes who shot the MF and chased him down.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... hurch.html

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Re: Church shooting

Post by 12_Gauge_Chimp » Mon Nov 06, 2017 1:42 pm

Boom40mm wrote:I thought domestic violence was grounds for forfeiture of ones second amendment rights? Being unable to qualify/perform duties as a rifleman was a big part of why people were discharged for it (I thought?)

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It usually is, but like Raptor mentioned, MF'er wasn't flagged in the system for some reason.

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Re: Church shooting

Post by MPMalloy » Mon Nov 06, 2017 1:49 pm

NPR is reporting that a "domestic situation" may have been the reason for the shooting.

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Re: Church shooting

Post by raptor » Mon Nov 06, 2017 2:07 pm

BTW for the sake of brevity I will in the future use the simple term "MF" to refer to fecal matter that commit such heinous acts. Feel free to substitute your own abbreviation (so long as the abbreviation is not political or religious) but I think we as a group should never repeat the real name of any such MF.

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Re: Church shooting

Post by 12_Gauge_Chimp » Mon Nov 06, 2017 2:17 pm

raptor wrote:BTW for the sake of brevity I will in the future use the simple term "MF" to refer to fecal matter that commit such heinous acts. Feel free to substitute your own abbreviation (so long as the abbreviation is not political or religious) but I think we as a group should never repeat the real name of any such MF.
Agreed.

Let's not give these poor excuses of humans the fame they seek. The media does that enough and we don't need to add to it.

Matter of fact, I'd much prefer to know the names of the two men who challenged this MF and drove him off. Those two men are heroes and deserve the medias attention more than the bastard who killed those people.

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Re: Church shooting

Post by MPMalloy » Mon Nov 06, 2017 2:28 pm

12_Gauge_Chimp wrote:Matter of fact, I'd much prefer to know the names of the two men who challenged this MF and drove him off. Those two men are heroes and deserve the medias attention more than the bastard who killed those people.
+1 most strongly!

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Re: Church shooting

Post by RickOShea » Mon Nov 06, 2017 2:57 pm

12_Gauge_Chimp wrote:Matter of fact, I'd much prefer to know the names of the two men who challenged this MF and drove him off. Those two men are heroes and deserve the medias attention more than the bastard who killed those people.
https://heavy.com/news/2017/11/stephen- ... d-guy-gun/
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Re: Church shooting

Post by raptor » Mon Nov 06, 2017 3:07 pm

MPMalloy wrote:
12_Gauge_Chimp wrote:Matter of fact, I'd much prefer to know the names of the two men who challenged this MF and drove him off. Those two men are heroes and deserve the medias attention more than the bastard who killed those people.
+1 most strongly!

Pictures and names of the heroes.

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Re: Church shooting

Post by MPMalloy » Mon Nov 06, 2017 4:57 pm

From NPR: The Texas Church Shooter Should Have Been Legally Barred From Owning Guns

I am not posting the article because it contains his name.

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