China ups the ante in standoff with India

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China ups the ante in standoff with India

Post by absinthe beginner » Sat Aug 05, 2017 7:06 am

Two nuclear-armed powers in a dick dance - what could possibly go wrong?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/wires/afp/ar ... India.html

China has stepped up its rhetoric in an increasingly tense border row with India, hinting at the possibility of military action in a propaganda push that analysts are calling "genuinely troubling."

For more than a month, Indian and Chinese troops have been locked in a standoff on a remote but strategically important Himalayan plateau near where Tibet, India and Bhutan meet.

On Thursday, Chinese defence ministry spokesman Ren Guoqiang warned that Beijing had shown restraint but had a "bottom line."

"No country should underestimate the Chinese forces'... resolve and willpower to defend national sovereignty," he said in a post on the ministry website.

It is a line that has been echoed almost word for word this week by the foreign ministry, the official Xinhua news agency, the ruling Communist Party mouthpiece the People's Daily, the official military news website of the Chinese armed forces, and other outlets.

On Wednesday, the foreign ministry released a 15-page document of "facts" about the border dispute, which included a map of alleged intrusions and photographs of what it stated were Indian troops and military vehicles on China's side of the frontier.

Calling for the "immediate and unconditional" withdrawal of Indian troops, it warned Beijing would "take all necessary measures" to safeguard its interests.

Chinese foreign ministry spokesman Geng Shuang said Thursday that India was building roads, hoarding supplies and deploying a large number of troops in the area.

"This is by no means for peace," Geng said.

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Re: China ups the ante in standoff with India

Post by TacAir » Sat Aug 05, 2017 2:18 pm

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-Indi ... er_dispute

Border disputes in this A/O have been going on since 1914. Yes, more of the fallout from the Great Powers funny business around the time of and at the end of WWI. Read the article link above.

]https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ ... ap_big.jpg

A/O. mostly worthless high altitude plateau.

Why now?

A Chinese road building project in the Himalayas has become the center of an escalating border dispute between India and China, with both sides accusing the other of territorial intrusions.
Described by the Indian government as a "significant change of status quo with serious security implications for India," the controversial road runs through the disputed Doklam Plateau, on the unmarked border between China and Bhutan.

Though not a part of Indian territory, the plateau holds immense strategic importance for Delhi and is vital to its geopolitical interests.

"The area in contention is extremely close to a very vulnerable stretch of Indian territory that effectively connects the bulk of India to its northeastern states," Shashank Joshi, senior research fellow at the Royal United Services Institute (RUSI) in London told CNN.
"Additional construction could skew the local balance of power in China's favor, essentially leaving India more vulnerable to invasion in case of a military confrontation with Beijing."

And now you have some history, a bit of perspective and the reason for the current kerfuffle.
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Re: China ups the ante in standoff with India

Post by Boo Randy » Mon Aug 07, 2017 8:19 pm

Ignoring the clickbait title, this YouTube video shows how much firepower China can bring to bear if war breaks out.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eu9_XaMz2UY&t=84s

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Re: China ups the ante in standoff with India

Post by Boo Randy » Tue Aug 08, 2017 7:52 pm

Both sides moving troops to the border.

https://www.thequint.com/india/2017/08/ ... ina-border

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Re: China ups the ante in standoff with India

Post by The Twizzler » Tue Aug 08, 2017 10:33 pm

Sure, they have had border issues for a long time but I think the real issue at hand is China's support of Pakistan. It's all part of the China's new silk road policy. If you want to upset an Indian just mention the Pakistanis. Those two don't see Eye to Eye and haven't since the 40's. You would think Pakistan would give up the ghost as they have gone to war with India a few times and they always lost for several reasons. Bangladesh used to be officially part of Pakistan and was called East Pakistan. That ended in the 70's in a war. Along the same lines China seems to always juuuust best India. China moves closer and closer to Pakistan while India moves closer to ..... believe it or not Japan. Sure India and the US have become more friendly but I doubt they will be official allies. India always leaned to the Soviet side in the cold war, understandably they had an aniti-colonial bent and that was turned into anti capitalist at the time so a lot of political and cultural reasons why the US isn't a good option now. That could all change with a war, but that's how I see it today.



TacAir wrote:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-Indi ... er_dispute

Border disputes in this A/O have been going on since 1914. Yes, more of the fallout from the Great Powers funny business around the time of and at the end of WWI. Read the article link above.

]https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ ... ap_big.jpg

A/O. mostly worthless high altitude plateau.

Why now?

A Chinese road building project in the Himalayas has become the center of an escalating border dispute between India and China, with both sides accusing the other of territorial intrusions.
Described by the Indian government as a "significant change of status quo with serious security implications for India," the controversial road runs through the disputed Doklam Plateau, on the unmarked border between China and Bhutan.

Though not a part of Indian territory, the plateau holds immense strategic importance for Delhi and is vital to its geopolitical interests.

"The area in contention is extremely close to a very vulnerable stretch of Indian territory that effectively connects the bulk of India to its northeastern states," Shashank Joshi, senior research fellow at the Royal United Services Institute (RUSI) in London told CNN.
"Additional construction could skew the local balance of power in China's favor, essentially leaving India more vulnerable to invasion in case of a military confrontation with Beijing."

And now you have some history, a bit of perspective and the reason for the current kerfuffle.
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Re: China ups the ante in standoff with India

Post by absinthe beginner » Thu Aug 10, 2017 9:00 am

India ordering villagers in disputed border section to evacuate.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-08-1 ... heir-villa

In the latest escalation between two nuclear powers (aside for the US and North Korea of course), the Indian Army has ordered the evacuation of a village close to the Doklam India-Bhutan-China tri-junction amid to a standoff between Indian and Chinese solders, India's News 18 reports. This takes place just days after, as we reported earlier this week, China turned the war threat amplifier up to '11' by threatening India (in an article published a Chinese state-controlled newspaper) that it could conduct a "small-scale military operation" to expel Indian troops from a contested region in the Himalayas.

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Re: China ups the ante in standoff with India

Post by teotwaki » Thu Aug 10, 2017 11:36 am

Doka La ground report Part I: Amid New Delhi-Beijing mind games, 'patient' Indian Army braces for long haul
http://www.firstpost.com/india/doka-la- ... 06079.html
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Re: China ups the ante in standoff with India

Post by teotwaki » Thu Aug 10, 2017 12:01 pm

Good map to understand where the disputed Doklam Plateau sits

Image
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Re: China ups the ante in standoff with India

Post by teotwaki » Thu Aug 10, 2017 12:39 pm

I think I found where the Chinese road was constructed and possible Chinese barracks/OP/LP structures also in Bhutan's territory

You can copy/paste these coordinates into Google Maps and switch to satellite view

Road
27°26'02.7"N 88°59'12.6"E
Barracks
27°25'57.8"N 89°00'44.7"E
27°25'55.7"N 89°00'46.5"E
27°25'54.4"N 89°01'10.6"E


or try these links

Road
https://www.google.com/maps/place/27%C2 ... d88.986845

Barracks
https://www.google.com/maps/place/27%C2 ... 89.0124167

https://www.google.com/maps/place/27%C2 ... 4d89.01292

https://www.google.com/maps/place/27%C2 ... 4d89.01961
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Re: China ups the ante in standoff with India

Post by Morgo » Sat Aug 12, 2017 9:02 am

I spent a couple weeks between Paro and Thimphu, among other areas of Bhutan, earlier this year. Glad I missed all this.

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Re: China ups the ante in standoff with India

Post by teotwaki » Sat Aug 12, 2017 9:06 am

Morgo wrote:I spent a couple weeks between Paro and Thimphu, among other areas of Bhutan, earlier this year. Glad I missed all this.
Do you have any pictures of the area to share? It would be interesting to see things from a non-news media angle.
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Re: China ups the ante in standoff with India

Post by Morgo » Sat Aug 12, 2017 9:13 am

Loads just not on this computer and not much of the every day life type though.

Mostly Monasteries and Dzong's

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Re: China ups the ante in standoff with India

Post by teotwaki » Mon Aug 14, 2017 1:30 pm

Pictures would still be nice but........


Anyhow, an opinion piece

Calling the Chinese bully's bluff in the Himalayas
The Japan Times Sun, Aug 13 1:00 AM PDT

http://www.japantimes.co.jp/?post_type= ... &p=1250201
Excert:

India’s government, led by Prime Minister Narendra Modi, has kept its cool, refusing to respond to any Chinese threat, much less withdraw its forces. As China’s warmongering has continued, its true colors have become increasingly vivid. It is now clear that China is attempting to use psychological warfare (“psywar”) to advance its strategic objectives — to “win without fighting,” as the ancient Chinese military theorist Sun Tzu recommended.

China has waged its psywar against India largely through disinformation campaigns and media manipulation, aimed at presenting India — a raucous democracy with poor public diplomacy — as the aggressor and China as the aggrieved party. Chinese state media have been engaged in eager India-bashing for weeks. China has also employed “lawfare,” selectively invoking a colonial-era accord, while ignoring its own violations — cited by Bhutan and India — of more recent bilateral agreements.
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Re: China ups the ante in standoff with India

Post by Morgo » Tue Aug 15, 2017 7:36 am

Here's just a few random ones, my main pc is needing a new video card so can't get to much at present. These haven't been edited yet, need the pc for it.

Image

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Re: China ups the ante in standoff with India

Post by Morgo » Tue Aug 15, 2017 7:37 am

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Re: China ups the ante in standoff with India

Post by Morgo » Tue Aug 15, 2017 7:38 am

Image

Image

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Re: China ups the ante in standoff with India

Post by Morgo » Tue Aug 15, 2017 7:38 am

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Re: China ups the ante in standoff with India

Post by Morgo » Tue Aug 15, 2017 7:39 am

Image

Image

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Re: China ups the ante in standoff with India

Post by absinthe beginner » Tue Aug 15, 2017 7:54 am

India-China standoff enters second month with no resolution in sight and neither antagonist backing down.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... 93866.html

Indian and Chinese military forces are reported to be preparing for the possibility of an armed conflict over a disputed area in the Himalayas should a peaceful solution not be found.

The standoff began two months ago when Indian troops confronted Chinese forces working on a road over the Doklam Plateau, a strategically important area near where Tibet, India and Bhutan meet, and which both China and Bhutan – an ally of India – claim as their own.

China has demanded that Indian troops withdraw before it will hold talks with the country, while India has called for each side to stand down.

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Re: China ups the ante in standoff with India

Post by teotwaki » Tue Aug 15, 2017 11:28 am

sample photo of a border post
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Indian border patrols
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Image

Interesting ChiCom camo patterns
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Re: China ups the ante in standoff with India

Post by teotwaki » Tue Aug 15, 2017 11:29 am

Despite Tension, Army Hasn't Deployed Artillery Guns Near Doklam
August 10, 2017
By: NDTV


"Indian artillery guns have not been shifted to their emplacements near the site of the standoff between Indian and Chinese troops in the disputed Doklam Plateau, a part of Bhutan, which is located East of Sikkim.

According to sources, this is a clear indicator that a military escalation between the Chinese and Indian Army seems unlikely at the moment. Also, there are no signs of a significant Chinese military buildup in the region as both New Delhi and Beijing look to find a peaceful solution to the situation in Doklam, potentially the gravest crisis between the two countries since the 1962 war."

http://indiandefence.com/threads/doklam ... 274/page-6
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Re: China ups the ante in standoff with India

Post by teotwaki » Tue Aug 15, 2017 11:58 am

Border squabbles on video. Also interesting to see the barren terrain and the kit that each army is using. I saw one Chinese officer in modern looking camo but he had a yellowish-brown leather pistol holster and magazine holder.



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Re: China ups the ante in standoff with India

Post by absinthe beginner » Tue Aug 15, 2017 10:45 pm

India is reporting an "altercation" between the two sides.

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/08/15/india-c ... urces.html

Indian and Chinese soldiers were involved in an altercation in the western Himalayas on Tuesday, Indian sources said, further raising tensions between the two countries, which are already locked in a two-month standoff in another part of the disputed border.

A source in New Delhi, who had been briefed on the military situation on the border, said soldiers foiled a bid by a group of Chinese troops to enter Indian territory in Ladakh, near the Pangong lake.

Some of the Chinese soldiers carried iron rods and stones, and in the melee there were minor injuries on both sides, the source said.

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Re: China ups the ante in standoff with India

Post by absinthe beginner » Wed Aug 16, 2017 6:00 am

Indian and Chinese troops clash in disputed Himalayan border region

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/ ... der-region

Indian and Chinese troops clashed briefly on a disputed area of land in the Himalayas, officials said, exacerbating tensions during a months-long standoff between the two armies.

Chinese troops threw stones at Indian soldiers near Pangong Lake, a major tourist attraction in the picturesque mountain region of Ladakh on Tuesday, an Indian defence official said.

He said Chinese soldiers had twice tried to enter the Indian territory but had been pushed back.

“There was a minor incident. There was some stone pelting from the Chinese side but the situation was quickly brought under control,” he told news agency AFP on condition of anonymity.

The brief confrontation was resolved after Indian and Chinese sides retreated to their respective positions, he added.

Police in the north Indian state of Jammu and Kashmir, where Ladakh is located, said clashes were relatively common along the de facto border known as the Line of Actual Control (LAC).

“These things happen every summer but this one was slightly prolonged and more serious but no weapons were used,” a police source in Srinagar told AFP.

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