California Drought

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Re: California Drought

Post by raistlin » Thu Jul 02, 2015 12:25 am

Boondock wrote:In somewhat related water/drought news:
ROME (Thomson Reuters Foundation) - Human water use is sucking dry around a third of the world's largest underground water basins at an alarming rate, with potentially risky consequences for farmers and other consumers, researchers said.
Full article: http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/06/ ... B220150617
Uggh...as I suspected, but I would have been happier not to read it. :(

University of California Irvine has a nice map of all the aquifers that one can download here: http://news.uci.edu/?featured_media_download=16478
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Re: California Drought

Post by mark9atq » Fri Jul 10, 2015 11:19 pm

Nothing to do really. "ITS" going to happen. How to ride the storm out is the question ZS addresses.
I like to assume I'll make it with on the spot heroic adjustments. Right. But hey...anyone can get lucky.

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Re: California Drought

Post by raistlin » Sat Jul 11, 2015 10:32 am

mark9atq wrote:Nothing to do really. "ITS" going to happen. How to ride the storm out is the question ZS addresses.
I like to assume I'll make it with on the spot heroic adjustments. Right. But hey...anyone can get lucky.
But is the question "how to ride out the storm?" Or how to survive with the new status quo? It seems the former has the been the main CA strategy to date: ride it out and hope it will end.
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Re: California Drought

Post by parabarbarian » Sat Jul 11, 2015 9:03 pm

Here is some good news on the drought front.

http://www.accuweather.com/en/weather-n ... t/50081969
This winter's El Niño could be one of the strongest in the past 50 years, leading to a return of meaningful but not necessarily drought-busting rain in California.

"El Nino has steadily strengthened over the past month and is now approaching strong category strength," stated AccuWeather Senior Meteorologist Brett Anderson.
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Re: California Drought

Post by LowKey » Sun Jul 12, 2015 3:56 am

parabarbarian wrote:Here is some good news on the drought front.

http://www.accuweather.com/en/weather-n ... t/50081969
This winter's El Niño could be one of the strongest in the past 50 years, leading to a return of meaningful but not necessarily drought-busting rain in California.

"El Nino has steadily strengthened over the past month and is now approaching strong category strength," stated AccuWeather Senior Meteorologist Brett Anderson.

Not trying to be "Debbie Downer" here, but when Cali gets heavy rains it also tends to get land and mud slides.

Cali....can't seem to catch a break.
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Re: California Drought

Post by ghostface » Tue Jul 14, 2015 8:33 pm

Yeah, you don't want a "head in the oven, feet in the freezer" situation where your average is the result of two negative extremes. Little of that precip is likely to be snowfall to recharge declining pack, so long term it won't help much. Plus, there's not a great correlation between ENSO and California rain. It's more of "it depends" situation.
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Re: California Drought

Post by parabarbarian » Tue Oct 27, 2015 11:30 pm

LowKey wrote:Not trying to be "Debbie Downer" here, but when Cali gets heavy rains it also tends to get land and mud slides.

Cali....can't seem to catch a break.
True and I feel sorry for the folks who live in or near burned out area.
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Re: California Drought

Post by Close_enough » Thu Oct 29, 2015 5:11 pm

raistlin wrote:
mark9atq wrote:Nothing to do really. "ITS" going to happen. How to ride the storm out is the question ZS addresses.
I like to assume I'll make it with on the spot heroic adjustments. Right. But hey...anyone can get lucky.
But is the question "how to ride out the storm?" Or how to survive with the new status quo? It seems the former has the been the main CA strategy to date: ride it out and hope it will end.
The same way we have always ridden it out. Higher efficiency appliances. More low water use, if not outright removal of, landscaping. Water shortages are the rule, not the exception. My lawn is actually a shade of green as anything that wasn't drought resistant has long since died off.

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Re: California Drought

Post by Stercutus » Sun Nov 01, 2015 4:19 am

Looks like Texas got all the heavy rain not Cali. The drought in Texas is over like it never even happened.
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Re: California Drought

Post by taipan821 » Sun Nov 01, 2015 6:17 am

raistlin wrote:
But is the question "how to ride out the storm?" Or how to survive with the new status quo? It seems the former has the been the main CA strategy to date: ride it out and hope it will end.

hope everyone over there is surviving well, over here in Australia our local dam has just fallen below 30%, so about 15% of water suitable for drinking left.

watering the garden has been rationed to twice a week (in a town of ‎178,649 people) in the evening, with the likelihood that if we don't get a wet season that will be cut as well.

its lucky that we have a backup dam for emergencies, buts that at 53% so here's hoping we get rain, and California gets rain
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Re: California Drought

Post by Mountainsquid » Sun Nov 01, 2015 1:58 pm

Stercutus wrote:Looks like Texas got all the heavy rain not Cali. The drought in Texas is over like it never even happened.

Except most of it washed off and went away, with reservoirs having to open the dams to keep them from overflowing. Central and South Texas got a of rain, but if they only get a few inches between now and the spring they are right back at drought conditions.

A heavy burst of rain that drops the total annual rainfall over one or two days doesn't really help the situation. It needs to be spread out, or in California's case, mostly impact the high altitude Sierras to recharge the snow pack to gradually come down during the rest of the year.

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Re: California Drought

Post by Stercutus » Sun Nov 01, 2015 2:23 pm

Mountainsquid wrote:
Stercutus wrote:Looks like Texas got all the heavy rain not Cali. The drought in Texas is over like it never even happened.

Except most of it washed off and went away, with reservoirs having to open the dams to keep them from overflowing. Central and South Texas got a of rain, but if they only get a few inches between now and the spring they are right back at drought conditions.

A heavy burst of rain that drops the total annual rainfall over one or two days doesn't really help the situation. It needs to be spread out, or in California's case, mostly impact the high altitude Sierras to recharge the snow pack to gradually come down during the rest of the year.
The drought actually ended in most of the state in the Spring, the summer has been steady. The recent rain just pushed things well over the top.
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Re: California Drought

Post by AfleetAlex » Sun Nov 01, 2015 2:28 pm

gronch wrote:Nicely done.

As a San Diego native, there is a rather large perception problem about living in the desert. I had to water my lawn every other day to keep it green. The only other option was to go drought tolerant, which people don't want to do, because why pay a ton for your house just to put rocks in the front yard. Also, your HOA may not allow such madness.
You're on a ZA survival site, and you think it's ok to water your lawn every other day just to keep it green? Priorities, man. Priorities...

The drought is resolvable.

1. Offer heavy tax deductions to prescription free clean eaters, willing to convert to composting toilets. People flush 3-10 gallons of drinking water a day, which is ridiculous. Humanure is great for crops like corn and fruiting trees/bushes.

2. Offer tax deductions for residential permaculture gardens, and deductions for volunteers willing to teach residents to become more self sustaining in growing their own food. I built my mother a back-to-Eden garden in Phoenix, that she only has to water 3x a season. Work with nature, not against Her.

3. Offer more lenient and profitable migrant worker programs, for commercial farmers willing to convert to permaculture grow methods.

4. Put farmers with non-native crops like alfalfa, on a meter. They are consistently pulling water from their neighbors property, which is unacceptable. Putting them on a meter will price their product out of the market, and they'll convert to a crop sustainable in their region.

5. Bury the almond orchards in 18 inches of mulch. They'll never have to be watered again.

Problem solved.
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Re: California Drought

Post by LowKey » Sun Nov 01, 2015 2:57 pm

AfleetAlex wrote:. Work with nature, not against Her.
Nature isn't a person, male or female, nor is it a deity.
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Re: California Drought

Post by AfleetAlex » Sun Nov 01, 2015 3:00 pm

LowKey wrote:
AfleetAlex wrote:. Work with nature, not against Her.
Nature isn't a person, male or female, nor is it a deity.
:clap: :clap: :clap:
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Re: California Drought

Post by LowKey » Sun Nov 01, 2015 3:01 pm

AfleetAlex wrote: 4. Put farmers with non-native crops like alfalfa, on a meter. They are consistently pulling water from their neighbors property, which is unacceptable. Putting them on a meter will price their product out of the market, and they'll convert to a crop sustainable in their region.
How about their neighbors who are growing native crops and who are also pulling water from their neighbor's property? Do they get a free pass, or do you want them penalized as well?

How about simply metering how much water the farmer is pulling out of the aquifer and asses them accordingly....oh, wait, they do that already????? Nevermind.
Last edited by LowKey on Sun Nov 01, 2015 3:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: California Drought

Post by Stercutus » Sun Nov 01, 2015 3:03 pm

AfleetAlex wrote:
LowKey wrote:
AfleetAlex wrote:. Work with nature, not against Her.
Nature isn't a person, male or female, nor is it a deity.
:clap: :clap: :clap:
Yeah, and tax politics are tax politics. Not really a topic for discussion at ZS. Although I did find your comments amusing in light of your comments in the other thread about government.
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Re: California Drought

Post by LowKey » Sun Nov 01, 2015 3:05 pm

AfleetAlex wrote: 1. Offer heavy tax deductions to prescription free clean eaters, willing to convert to composting toilets. People flush 3-10 gallons of drinking water a day, which is ridiculous. Humanure is great for crops like corn and fruiting trees/bushes.
What do you do when the "prescription free eater" comes down with bacterial pneumonia and has to take antibiotics for the month ? Do you burn them at the stake, or will bastinado suffice as a penalty?
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Re: California Drought

Post by AfleetAlex » Sun Nov 01, 2015 3:09 pm

Stercutus wrote:
AfleetAlex wrote:
LowKey wrote:
AfleetAlex wrote:. Work with nature, not against Her.
Nature isn't a person, male or female, nor is it a deity.
:clap: :clap: :clap:
Yeah, and tax politics are tax politics. Not really a topic for discussion at ZS. Although I did find your comments amusing in light of your comments in the other thread about government.


Tax laws are laws, the same as gun law or any other law. <---- Thats not discussing politics, anymore than gun threads talking about carry/permit laws are discussing politics. This is about the drought, and realistic ways to resolve it without furthering harm or force, like "kill all the livestock", or "who cares if California dies off and everyone starves". If you can't handle an adult conversation about resolving a survival threat that could attack any State, maybe you're in the wrong place?
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Re: California Drought

Post by Stercutus » Sun Nov 01, 2015 3:10 pm

Tax laws are laws, the same as gun law or any other law. <---- Thats not discussing politics, anymore than gun threads talking about carry/permit laws are discussing politics. This is about the drought, and realistic ways to resolve it without furthering harm or force, like "kill all the livestock", or "who cares if California dies off and everyone starves". If you can't handle an adult conversation about resolving a survival threat that could attack any State, maybe you're in the wrong place?
I will venture one of us is in the wrong place. I think it will be sorted out before too long.
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Re: California Drought

Post by duodecima » Sun Nov 01, 2015 3:11 pm

LowKey wrote: How about simply metering how much water the farmer is pulling out of the aquifer and asses them accordingly....oh, wait, they do that already????? Nevermind.
Except California hasn't been metering ag groundwater consumption, and they've passed legislation so that even when metering of agricultural groundwater starts it won't be public information. (I have citations, but I also have a lot of things to do, will edit them in when I've got a moment.)

If you have citations otherwise, feel free to provide!
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Re: California Drought

Post by AfleetAlex » Sun Nov 01, 2015 3:14 pm

LowKey wrote:
AfleetAlex wrote: 1. Offer heavy tax deductions to prescription free clean eaters, willing to convert to composting toilets. People flush 3-10 gallons of drinking water a day, which is ridiculous. Humanure is great for crops like corn and fruiting trees/bushes.
What do you do when the "prescription free eater" comes down with bacterial pneumonia and has to take antibiotics for the month ? Do you burn them at the stake, or will bastinado suffice as a penalty?
If you knew anything about food production, you'd know that prescription meds up to and including antibiotics, show up in bodily waste products. If you're producing humanure for fertilization purposes, you're going to want an organic product.

Burn people at the stake? Whaaaaaa? You've got violence issues, bro.
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Re: California Drought

Post by duodecima » Sun Nov 01, 2015 3:27 pm

Can ALL OF YOU tone down the insults and namecalling here?

Because I'm happy to argue about details, but this particular meme has also go a point. (I saw it first from another ZSer in another drought thread that got killed because some people can't discuss without resorting to insults. Let's not repeat that AGAIN.)

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Re: California Drought

Post by Stercutus » Sun Nov 01, 2015 3:27 pm

AfleetAlex wrote:
Stercutus wrote:
Tax laws are laws, the same as gun law or any other law. <---- Thats not discussing politics, anymore than gun threads talking about carry/permit laws are discussing politics. This is about the drought, and realistic ways to resolve it without furthering harm or force, like "kill all the livestock", or "who cares if California dies off and everyone starves". If you can't handle an adult conversation about resolving a survival threat that could attack any State, maybe you're in the wrong place?
I will venture one of us is in the wrong place. I think it will be sorted out before too long.
What, are you gonna tattle on me? Lol. Like they're going to comb though the "Which handgun for me" thread and remove all mention of night vision laws? And all the other threads mentioning current law? Grow up darling.
You seem to have a problem differentiating between:

- The mention of a current law and how it effects people

and

- The recommendation of a policy to resolve an issue to your particular liking through the implementation of government policy

One is politics, the other it not.

I am not your darling. Gender/ sexually based insults are also frowned upon here as well.
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