Mass Blackouts in California

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Mass Blackouts in California

Post by absinthe beginner » Wed Oct 09, 2019 8:51 am

PG&E has begun cutting power across parts of Northern California. Nearly 800,000 customers will be affected

https://www.cnn.com/2019/10/09/us/pge-p ... index.html

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Re: Mass Blackouts in California

Post by raptor » Wed Oct 09, 2019 12:56 pm

Good luck trying to find a large generator in stock.

The Generac folks have a 90 day back log.

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Re: Mass Blackouts in California

Post by Stercutus » Wed Oct 09, 2019 6:43 pm

I can't help but wonder how many fires will be instigated by the power loss?
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Re: Mass Blackouts in California

Post by flybynight » Wed Oct 09, 2019 6:58 pm


ETA Also read some areas have enacted curfews to deter crime in black out areas. Although the only town mentioned specifically was Morgan Hill.
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Re: Mass Blackouts in California

Post by MPMalloy » Wed Oct 09, 2019 10:54 pm

From USA Today: Almost 2 million Californians will be without power through Thursday in shutdown to reduce wildfire risk








A local SF rag stated that PG&E was going to delay power cuts in populated areas. I am unable to confirm this atm.

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Re: Mass Blackouts in California

Post by TacAir » Thu Oct 10, 2019 12:08 am

wow - just like Venezuela - sorta.

Different reason, same effects.
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Re: Mass Blackouts in California

Post by MPMalloy » Thu Oct 10, 2019 10:35 am


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Re: Mass Blackouts in California

Post by raptor » Thu Oct 10, 2019 11:00 am

TacAir wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 12:08 am
wow - just like Venezuela - sorta.

So lets see ... a regulated utility is sued into bankruptcy for supplying the product that it is regulated to provide; decides to shut off the regulated service to avoid being sued again (risk mitigation).

https://m.investing.com/news/stock-mark ... ?ampMode=1

BTW one of the claims in the lawsuit that sparked (no pun intended) the bankruptcy is that PG&E had a history of not turning off the power to prevent fires.

Seriously is this power shut off surprising to anyone?


https://finance.yahoo.com/news/0-40-pg- ... 05195.html

PG&E Corporation (NYSE: PCG) shares were hammered Thursday after a bankruptcy judge ruled that PG&E will not have exclusive rights to propose a chapter 11 bankruptcy plan, opening the door for alternative plans from bondholders.

The ruling is a blow for common shareholders and means that there will be at least two options for navigating bankruptcy moving forward. PG&E’s plan focuses on using debt and equity financing to shield shareholders during bankruptcy. The bondholder plan involves using the majority of PG&E’s equity to pay off the company’s debts.

The stock traded lower by 28.31% to $7.88 per share at time of publication.

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Re: Mass Blackouts in California

Post by manacheck » Thu Oct 10, 2019 1:26 pm

raptor wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 11:00 am
TacAir wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 12:08 am
wow - just like Venezuela - sorta.

So lets see ... a regulated utility is sued into bankruptcy for supplying the product that it is regulated to provide; decides to shut off the regulated service to avoid being sued again (risk mitigation).

https://m.investing.com/news/stock-mark ... ?ampMode=1

Seriously is this surprising to anyone?
People in positions of responsibility finally doing the right thing always surprises me. So, in that way... :roll:

Turning off the utility in danger zones while the local weather is presenting a clear fire-starting threat is the only thing to do. If the wires are going to go down from winds, they're going to go down. No need to take out everyone nearby it with raging preventable fires to boot.

Reading all the comments on those news clips makes me wonder if a single one is written by a human being, or if they're all courtesy of complain-o-bots.

Not that powerouts and everything that goes with them isn't really quite serious, causing various real problems... but. wildfire near residential zones is generally much more immediately dangerous. As serious as powerouts can be when you rely on the electricity for normal everyday needs, having everything you own being burnt up and you having no way to get out isn't even a drop in the bucket in comparison. ...Also, considering how if the lines/transformers are, uh, burnt to a crisp, getting them back online will take even longer than if they're just dropped by the strong winds.
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Re: Mass Blackouts in California

Post by raptor » Thu Oct 10, 2019 6:11 pm

manacheck wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 1:26 pm

Reading all the comments on those news clips makes me wonder if a single one is written by a human being, or if they're all courtesy of complain-o-bots.
Well at least Bots can't throw eggs ...yet.

https://sacramento.cbslocal.com/2019/10 ... ets-egged/

A power outage should be at most a minor inconvenience. Unfortunately that is not the case for many people & businesses today.


PG&E is screwed either way...

Leave the power on, cause a fire; get sued.

Shut down, lose money, piss off customers and wait for the class action lawsuit against them because they did not provide service and damage occurred due to the intentional and willful act of not providing electricity.

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Re: Mass Blackouts in California

Post by TacAir » Thu Oct 10, 2019 6:56 pm

raptor wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 11:00 am
TacAir wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 12:08 am
wow - just like Venezuela - sorta.

So lets see ... a regulated utility is sued into bankruptcy for supplying the product that it is regulated to provide; decides to shut off the regulated service to avoid being sued again (risk mitigation).

https://m.investing.com/news/stock-mark ... ?ampMode=1

BTW one of the claims in the lawsuit that sparked (no pun intended) the bankruptcy is that PG&E had a history of not turning off the power to prevent fires.

Seriously is this power shut off surprising to anyone?


https://finance.yahoo.com/news/0-40-pg- ... 05195.html

PG&E Corporation (NYSE: PCG) shares were hammered Thursday after a bankruptcy judge ruled that PG&E will not have exclusive rights to propose a chapter 11 bankruptcy plan, opening the door for alternative plans from bondholders.

The ruling is a blow for common shareholders and means that there will be at least two options for navigating bankruptcy moving forward. PG&E’s plan focuses on using debt and equity financing to shield shareholders during bankruptcy. The bondholder plan involves using the majority of PG&E’s equity to pay off the company’s debts.

The stock traded lower by 28.31% to $7.88 per share at time of publication.
The sorta
The lack of skilled maintenance and spares (well, and water) killed the grid in SA

The lack or right-of way maintenance and crappy line maintenance = fire = lawsuits.

Both place had wide area blackouts.

So, yeah, kinds the same results....
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Re: Mass Blackouts in California

Post by boskone » Thu Oct 10, 2019 7:05 pm

raptor wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 6:11 pm
A power outage should be at most a minor inconvenience. Unfortunately that is not the case for many people & businesses today.
Businesses, I can understand. There's ultimately little you can do these days that doesn't require electricity at some stage.

People? I'm starting to think we should have like homesteading classes where people spend a semester working in relatively primitive conditions, just to give people a sense of perspective and some preparation for disasters. No need to go full Primitive Technology (that'd be the honors course), but all manual labor and boiling water to make it drinkable.

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Re: Mass Blackouts in California

Post by NT2C » Thu Oct 10, 2019 7:43 pm

boskone wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 7:05 pm
raptor wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 6:11 pm
A power outage should be at most a minor inconvenience. Unfortunately that is not the case for many people & businesses today.
Businesses, I can understand. There's ultimately little you can do these days that doesn't require electricity at some stage.

People? I'm starting to think we should have like homesteading classes where people spend a semester working in relatively primitive conditions, just to give people a sense of perspective and some preparation for disasters. No need to go full Primitive Technology (that'd be the honors course), but all manual labor and boiling water to make it drinkable.
You'd have to make it an online class. I say that half in jest and half seriously. The majority of people today are so "connected" that if you really want their attention then your class better be online, have a good Facebook presence with plenty of likes, and not be too long.
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Re: Mass Blackouts in California

Post by absinthe beginner » Thu Oct 10, 2019 9:55 pm

California Hit By Dual Shock: LA Gas Prices Spike Above $5 As Residents Learn Solar Panels Don't Work In Blackouts

https://www.zerohedge.com/economics/cal ... anels-dont

Millions of Californians may have just suffered an unprecedented, induced blackout by the state's largest (and bankrupt) utility, PG&E, just so it isn't blamed for starting even more fires causing it to go even more bankrupt... but at least the price of gas is soaring.

According to Fox5NY, citing figures from AAA and the Oil Price Information Service, the average price of a gallon of regular gasoline in Los Angeles County was $4.25 on Wednesday, 4.5 cents higher than one week ago, 57.6 cents more than one month ago and 37.1 cents greater than one year ago. It has also risen 86.4 cents since the start of the year. What is more troubling is that as California gas prices reached the highest level in the state since 2015, some Los Angeles area gas stations are charging more than $5 a gallon.

The gas price spike started last month after Saudi Arabia oil production facilities were attacked, and accelerated after three Los Angeles-area refineries slowed or halted production due to maintenance issues and no imported gasoline was available to make up for the shortfall, according to Jeffrey Spring, the Automobile Club of Southern California's corporate communications manager.

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Re: Mass Blackouts in California

Post by boskone » Thu Oct 10, 2019 11:10 pm

absinthe beginner wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 9:55 pm
California Hit By Dual Shock: LA Gas Prices Spike Above $5 As Residents Learn Solar Panels Don't Work In Blackouts
It just seems weird to me to have solar panels, but no battery bank.

Wonder if there'll be a run on such in CA in a week or so?

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Re: Mass Blackouts in California

Post by Stercutus » Fri Oct 11, 2019 7:07 am

boskone wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 11:10 pm
absinthe beginner wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 9:55 pm
California Hit By Dual Shock: LA Gas Prices Spike Above $5 As Residents Learn Solar Panels Don't Work In Blackouts
It just seems weird to me to have solar panels, but no battery bank.

Wonder if there'll be a run on such in CA in a week or so?
Batteries are really expensive and other than providing come storage provide no real benefit to people connected to the grid. They also have to replaced regularly and some type need regular service. Unless you are off gird or just want to be extra prepared the batteries are not worth the money.

I noticed locally we now have "generator shortage" at HD and Lowes. Don't know if they are shipping them all to Cali or they just ran out and can't get more.
These days of dust
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Re: Mass Blackouts in California

Post by manacheck » Fri Oct 11, 2019 8:02 am

raptor wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 6:11 pm
manacheck wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 1:26 pm

Reading all the comments on those news clips makes me wonder if a single one is written by a human being, or if they're all courtesy of complain-o-bots.
Well at least Bots can't throw eggs ...yet.

A power outage should be at most a minor inconvenience. Unfortunately that is not the case for many people & businesses today.

PG&E is screwed either way...
:awesome: Counter arguement: Tossingbot https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJlSgm9OByM

...and his accomplice!: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZtZpqbTDwgM

(Really, I just do not want to think about that many people being so obtuse as to yell like ninnies that power being out for a couple days is in any way equivalent to their (or others') homes burning down, and becoming homeless. Or worse.)

But yeah, PG&E is screwed no matter how you look at it. It's being set up to fail, and that is a concern for everyone.

"One is None", or "All Eggs in One Basket" is the problem. Not having alternatives in place is a pretty serious issue, when electricity is running our water pumps, refrigerators, bank card transactions, traffic lights, healthcare equipment.
"It is better to light a single candle than to curse the darkness."

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Re: Mass Blackouts in California

Post by majorhavoc » Fri Oct 11, 2019 9:09 am

manacheck wrote:
Fri Oct 11, 2019 8:02 am
"One is None", or "All Eggs in One Basket" is the problem. Not having alternatives in place is a pretty serious issue, when electricity is running our water pumps, refrigerators, bank card transactions, traffic lights, healthcare equipment.
Either that or start burying power lines where high winds and tinder dry conditions are an issue.

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Re: Mass Blackouts in California

Post by NT2C » Fri Oct 11, 2019 10:21 am

Stercutus wrote:
Fri Oct 11, 2019 7:07 am
boskone wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 11:10 pm
absinthe beginner wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 9:55 pm
California Hit By Dual Shock: LA Gas Prices Spike Above $5 As Residents Learn Solar Panels Don't Work In Blackouts
It just seems weird to me to have solar panels, but no battery bank.

Wonder if there'll be a run on such in CA in a week or so?
Batteries are really expensive and other than providing come storage provide no real benefit to people connected to the grid. They also have to replaced regularly and some type need regular service. Unless you are off gird or just want to be extra prepared the batteries are not worth the money.

I noticed locally we now have "generator shortage" at HD and Lowes. Don't know if they are shipping them all to Cali or they just ran out and can't get more.
HD and Lowes both have a corporate history of pulled inventory from stores nationwide and shipping it to areas where there's great demand for it. At times they are so bad about it that they strip store's thousands of miles away bare of certain items. I saw this time and again when I worked as a contractor. Hurricane heading for the Gulf? You won't find a sheet of plywood or sheathing at any store within 1,000 miles of the Gulf. It's all been pulled from the stores and sent to Gulf stores, and even deliveries that were enroute get redirected. Sometimes this can lead to really weird shortages too. I remember one time where I couldn't get plastic single gang boxes at any HD within 500 miles of DC for almost 2 weeks. Another time it was 1.5" PVC 90 deg elbows. The only way I could get them to finish the plumbing in a house I was building that to special order a case (500) of them. It took a week to arrive.
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Sic quemadmodum gladius neminem occidit; occidentis telum est - Seneca the Younger, Epistles

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Re: Mass Blackouts in California

Post by MPMalloy » Fri Oct 11, 2019 1:29 pm


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Re: Mass Blackouts in California

Post by raptor » Fri Oct 11, 2019 2:09 pm

MPMalloy wrote:
Fri Oct 11, 2019 1:29 pm
From : Bloomberg: Dark Shops, Spotty Phones, Rotting Fish: Life in a Mass Blackout
This article is painful to read. :?

manacheck wrote:
Fri Oct 11, 2019 8:02 am
raptor wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 6:11 pm
manacheck wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 1:26 pm

Reading all the comments on those news clips makes me wonder if a single one is written by a human being, or if they're all courtesy of complain-o-bots.
Well at least Bots can't throw eggs ...yet.

:awesome: Counter arguement: Tossingbot https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJlSgm9OByM

...and his accomplice!: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZtZpqbTDwgM
Touche! I yield to the winner. :lol:

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Re: Mass Blackouts in California

Post by Brekar » Fri Oct 11, 2019 6:37 pm

Electric-Car Owners Hard Hit by Massive California Power Shutdown

I told my wife I bet her uncle is regretting that Tesla about now. Now I bet a lot of them are...

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Re: Mass Blackouts in California

Post by MPMalloy » Fri Oct 11, 2019 8:15 pm

raptor wrote:
Fri Oct 11, 2019 2:09 pm
MPMalloy wrote:
Fri Oct 11, 2019 1:29 pm
From : Bloomberg: Dark Shops, Spotty Phones, Rotting Fish: Life in a Mass Blackout
This article is painful to read. :?
Is this one better?

From NPR: 25 Homes, More Than 7,500 Acres Burn In Saddleridge Fire Near Los Angeles
Updated at 6:04 p.m. ET

A quick-moving wildfire is churning through the foothills of Southern California, forcing local authorities to issue mandatory evacuations for some 100,000 people in the San Fernando Valley north of Los Angeles.

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Re: Mass Blackouts in California

Post by NT2C » Fri Oct 11, 2019 10:12 pm

MPMalloy wrote:
Fri Oct 11, 2019 8:15 pm
raptor wrote:
Fri Oct 11, 2019 2:09 pm
MPMalloy wrote:
Fri Oct 11, 2019 1:29 pm
From : Bloomberg: Dark Shops, Spotty Phones, Rotting Fish: Life in a Mass Blackout
This article is painful to read. :?
Is this one better?

From NPR: 25 Homes, More Than 7,500 Acres Burn In Saddleridge Fire Near Los Angeles
Updated at 6:04 p.m. ET

A quick-moving wildfire is churning through the foothills of Southern California, forcing local authorities to issue mandatory evacuations for some 100,000 people in the San Fernando Valley north of Los Angeles.
Oxygen-dependent California man dies 12 minutes after PG&E cuts power to his home
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