Tactical Zombie Training

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Tactical Zombie Training

Post by Keith B » Thu Mar 19, 2009 8:13 am

Other threads have been discussing different training options for firearms training in the defense of zombies.
One line inparticular stuck out at me:
DavePAL84 wrote: "Safely" and "2 man teams" do not equate unless both men have previous combat rifle training.
I cannot agree more, I can only think of a handful of people that I would trust to do a live fire training exercise with. I have been in the Army, been in Law Enforcement, and I have take training classes. The potential for disaster with live fire is extremely high. So what are our options? Tactical paintball? Airsoft? Simunitions?
Lets see if we cant find a good answer...
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Re: Tactical Zombie Training

Post by lurkyr » Fri Mar 20, 2009 2:49 pm

The attacking zombies intelligence would play a large roll in how they were engaged. Paintball and airsoft would provide a means of teaching basic tactics and general safety to people but doesn't factor in some critical aspects like bullet penetration. Friendly fire is what, 90% more accurate?

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Re: Tactical Zombie Training

Post by Finch » Fri Mar 20, 2009 2:58 pm

i've played paint ball it makes me angry*

I think a paintball gun is not close enought to a rifle for training. in range and use.



*people cheat which makes me alsmost as angry as the kids who just hide the round out not not as mad as the kids who think they are snipers but not nearly as mad as the little fuckers who spend the entire time they are walking between boards talking about how cool thier "tacticool paintball gun is. And fuck don't even get me started on airsoft I think i would quickly get in a fist fight if i played airsoft.
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Re: Tactical Zombie Training

Post by Keith B » Fri Mar 20, 2009 4:13 pm

I agree completly on the paintball. I believe that there is some value in QUALITY airsoft as a training aid. The ones that mimic real firearms.
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Re: Tactical Zombie Training

Post by MrPredictable » Mon Mar 23, 2009 5:32 pm

Paintball can teach you how to work together with other people in a combat-like situation, using voice and hand signals to work together and overcome another force. Although the guns are not as realistic as airsoft if you go to the range on a fairly regular basis and do some dry-drills you could easily transfer the skills. Plus with paintball 2000 rounds weighs more then 2 pounds and marks the person you hit.

Maybe I'm just bitter because we can't buy realistic airsoft guns in Canada.
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Re: Tactical Zombie Training

Post by Rick12337 » Sun Mar 29, 2009 4:00 pm

not to mention paintball or airsoft will help you determin targets and not shooting your partne'r or other freinds. Honestly although not even close to the real deal it will help your senses develop far as keeping your awarness up and using your feild of view.

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Re: Tactical Zombie Training

Post by nobodyspecial » Tue Mar 31, 2009 6:17 pm

They do make paint bullets for regular firearms. Also there are rubber bullets.
Personally if I dont trust someone with a live firearm after giving a class and giving dry fire training and maybe some practice with a bb gun, then I dont want them to have one, ever. No matter how much practice they get with paintball, etc. Some people are just reckless, thus a liability.
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Re: Tactical Zombie Training

Post by Sckitzo » Tue Mar 31, 2009 6:42 pm

Jesus, one of my worst experiences in the military was at Ft. Hood when we had to do a live fire walk and shoot. Nothing very hard or complicated. I still to this day do not know how I managed to walk off that range with the back of my head intact. Live fire is great training, but only once everyone is up to that point.

As for which ones is best, I think it depends on what type of training is being conducted. CQB type, going to go with sim rounds. But if it's anything past 15m or so about the only thing I've seen be of any use is MILES (which by the way is still a piece of shit)

I've paint balled, but for me it was more a hobby then anything. I think it would be good for building teamwork and confidence but that is about it.

Never done Airsoft, but doesn't seem like it work very well beyond what paintball could do and leave way to much open for "I shot you first!" "No you didn't I totally got you first!"

Simunitions hurt just enough to let someone know they got shot (unless you shoot your buddy in the balls...) but after 15m or so they start doing weird things, and they don't break all the time but nothing is perfect. Think the sale of em is restricted to LEO/Military

MILES is damn near worthless but has the benefit of longest range, as long as no one is hiding behind a blade of grass :roll: and you conduct all your training on flattop with no false cover.

I think a combination of Sim and MILES would be best. I think there is enough powder in a Sim round to "fire" the MILES. So you might get some medium/long range hits in, but when you worked your way down to close range you don't have to deal with that bullshit of "safety kills" which becomes even more a grownup case of Cowboys and Indians. :evil:

Can you tell I just got back from doing some exercises? :?

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Re: Tactical Zombie Training

Post by darkangel98s » Sat Apr 11, 2009 1:31 am

Well, largely because I am curious, you were not originally talking about training tools, but tactical combat training? I would think anything close quarters and up personal would be adequate for a Zed PAW. I love how most people assume we will be engaging Zed at a distance, and not up close and on your ass.

S.W.A.T. Seems to have some excellent room and close quarters shooting and room clearing tactics, and with some modifications, would be capable of being applied to Zed Hostile Environs.

Unfortunately, while being a recreational gun nut, and a zombie fanatic, I don't know too much about close quarters combat tactics. More info and opinions on those would be nice.
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Re: Tactical Zombie Training

Post by Wolfdude87 » Sat Apr 11, 2009 11:13 pm

nobodyspecial wrote:They do make paint bullets for regular firearms. Also there are rubber bullets.
Personally if I dont trust someone with a live firearm after giving a class and giving dry fire training and maybe some practice with a bb gun, then I dont want them to have one, ever. No matter how much practice they get with paintball, etc. Some people are just reckless, thus a liability.
I'd have a hard time practicing with a gun that could even take live ammo. Paint bullets would be good but you'd have to be damn sure of the people you plan to train with.
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Re: Tactical Zombie Training

Post by pistolpimp » Wed Jun 03, 2009 2:27 pm

I agree with the above poster... last time I did some malfunction drills with others on the range I thought for sure I was going to be shot in the face... I was so nervous watching these people handle jammed weapons that I couldn't focus on mine.

I've had some room clearing training and the thing that I think would help most in a zombie situation is making space... getting a foot up in the gut of a ZED to creat some shooting space would be key... other than that just try not to make much noise.
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Re: Tactical Zombie Training

Post by Lenny » Wed Jun 03, 2009 3:04 pm

Here's my thoughts on Malfunction drills. If you are looking for idea's or suggestions, please post them here. http://zombiehunters.org/forum/viewtopi ... ion+drills" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Tactical Zombie Training

Post by DaJoker » Thu Jun 04, 2009 9:02 pm

What about laser-tag training? I believe the military uses lasers, sensors and blanks in combination in force-on-force sims. FYI: Source is "America's Army" video game :roll:
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Re: Tactical Zombie Training

Post by Drockan » Tue Jul 28, 2009 1:12 pm

Joker,

The lazer system the Army uses is the MILES system, which has already been pointed out as being... well, crap. I've personally only seen it in use once... in basic training. My platoon had about 45 people in our last FTX, but only enough MILES gear for five people. I recall looking at the system and thinking just how junky it looked... I don;t think anyone in the company that had one on actually got hit, and I wasn't given one myself, so I can't share any real experience about it.

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Re: Tactical Zombie Training

Post by gordon_freeman » Fri Aug 28, 2009 1:41 pm

Take a 2 or 3 day class from a reputable firearms trainer, and you will invariably learn about the importance of muzzle control/awareness, overall situational awareness and run through basic-advanced moving drills.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bm_SACwbrHs" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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I didn't film the more advanced drills since I was busy shooting, hahaha.

Airsoft is limited in its training capability. Beyond force on force training at close ranges, Airsoft doesn't really come close to real weapons handling.

It's not rocket science, but you just need to get trained up to

1. Keep your head on a swivel,
2. Communicate effectively (never say the word "go". Sounds a lot like "no")
3. Maneuver safely and quickly around teammates.


Magpul Dynamics, EAG Tactical and other reputable trainers are the place to go for decent firearms training. The costs for training are pretty much the same across the board, might as well pay for the best. Be sure to check out the Lightfighter forums and read what professional trigger pullers think. However, i'd advise against posting there until you've understood that forum's culture. They do not suffer fools lightly.

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Re: Tactical Zombie Training

Post by Kitsune » Wed Sep 02, 2009 4:19 pm

I will say that the MILES gear is probably your worst bet. a lot of times all you have to do to fire the laser off is bumb it, anything can block the laser (I believe a blade of grass was already mentioned), and it is bulky and does not stay in place. Siminition rounds are probably the best bet for practicing the CQB stuff, that with a good mix of dry firing exercise should be a good way to go. Of course practicing how to quickly but safely handle malfunctions and magazine changes in combat is a must aswell.
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Re: Tactical Zombie Training

Post by seraosha » Fri Sep 04, 2009 2:24 pm

Paintballing, hands down.

Airsoft "looks" the part, but is rife with cheaters...while paintball has it's fair share of cheaters, unless they are quick, a wipe shows plainly. Small squad tactics are great with paintball...clearing rooms, stacking before entry, crossing danger areas etc...all valuable lessons that can be facilitated by paintball. One MAJOR drawback is the difference between cover and concealment...some thick brush will shred a paintball that wouldn't slow a 7.62 at all, so some really bad habits can be learned.

MILES gear is great, but the amount needed and the cost would be prohibitive...3 years at Polk as OPFOR at JRTC.

As for live fire exercises...I remember my platoon doing an "Austrailian Peelback" and while I had faith in my platoon, individually I was very conscious of how easy it could be for a buddy to blow me away...pucker factor +10.
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