Zombie Fort.

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zero11010
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Re: Zombie Fort.

Post by zero11010 » Thu Mar 05, 2015 2:03 pm

JLC, in general, you need to think through your plans a whole lot more.

You have a bunch of ideas that are in an infancy stage. Continue to work through those ideas. Plan out how things would work and you'll see a lot of holes in your ideas.

I swear I'm not trying to be rude, but your ideas sound like what I've heard from a lot of teenagers. I don't mean that as disrespectful. You're eager, and have a lot of enthusiasm and those are two great attributes. You have some general basic ideas of how things may work, but you haven't followed those ideas forward at all yet.

You're talking about spending thousands of dollars for zombie upgrades on a rental property and living in a town where the average annual salary is about $30k and that average home value is about $100k. You would be better served by saving up for a down payment on a home. The home you could then outfit anyway you wanted.

As a frame of reference, my girlfriend and I got a home 2 years ago. The value of the home has increased a bit over $100k in that time. That's $50k per year in investment profit (approximately 10% of the value of the home per year). If you were to wisely pick a place for a property you would be able to find something with a $15k down payment, then you could do anything you wanted to it, instead of investing your own money on something that someone else owns. As it stands you're talking about spending thousands and thousands to make modifications on a rental property for zombies (which seems like an absurd expenditure of discretionary funds in a low income area).


The single best thing you can do for your chances of survival in the case of zombies is by being in the best physical condition you can be in. Can you get up and run 5+ miles right now? If so, great. If not, that's an improvement you can make within yourself right now and it costs zero dollars.

Next would likely be learning how to thrive in an environment without electricity, running water, or grocery stores. There are lots of informational classes/courses you can take that can help with this. All of that would likely be money better spent than getting a more durable garage door (the town you're planning on moving to has virtually zero annual crime).

Next you could look into learning martial arts so you have a better understanding of your body and how to defend and attack efficiently. After that you could look into firearm courses for quality instruction in how to make guns go bang.

Way, way, way down the list of useful things you can do would be planning to put a noisy treadmill near a home entrance to make it harder for things to enter for the period of time when a giant emergency occurs and while you still have electricity. I think it would be somewhere after visiting a psychic to tell you if you'll ever need to deal with zombies, and having your star charts read to see what your ideal group of zombie survivor companions would be. Maybe even after getting a phrenologist to read you and let you know which areas of your life you should focus on strengthening.

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Re: Zombie Fort.

Post by jlc87 » Thu Mar 05, 2015 6:12 pm

Yeah, zero... or I could save up for an RV (Class A or so) and not be tied to one location, and if I see a herd I can just drive the other way? Haha. I'm talking about going up into the hills or some remote area. If I had an RV. And of course have an extra battery or two and some tools and canisters of gasoline. Maybe I should start an RV thread... anyway, I'm not in shape and I couldn't run five miles, I should work on that I know. And I haven't took a martial arts course yet. But the apartment is just an idea. :shock:

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Re: Zombie Fort.

Post by zero11010 » Thu Mar 05, 2015 10:25 pm

jlc87 wrote:Yeah, zero... or I could save up for an RV (Class A or so) and not be tied to one location, and if I see a herd I can just drive the other way? Haha. I'm talking about going up into the hills or some remote area. If I had an RV. And of course have an extra battery or two and some tools and canisters of gasoline.
You've got to think this stuff through a little, man. Don't just say the first thought that comes into your head.

Do you have the license to operate a vehicle that size? How much would you spend on the RV as a toy to have? Would you be buying an RV to have at the same time that you're throwing money away every month renting property that you won't own?

Why would you plan to drive a giant heavy vehicle that gets 7-10 mpg into "the hills or some remote area?" Is that going to be your new home or are you going to stay mobile? If it's going to be your new home, why not just buy a house or property to build on in a predetermined area, like a vacation home/bug out location? If you're going to stay mobile, just how much gas do you think you're going to come across for your 7-10 mpg vehicle?

If you run into trouble you'll just turn around in your class A RV?

That's a 6 minute U turn that used two spotters outside the vehicle.

I'm not going to take the time to fully research a bug out location for you. Here's a piece of property in the town you want to live in. It's located about a block from one of the larger creeks in the area.
http://www.trulia.com/property/31906954 ... y-WV-25271
$20k. 2 acres. Gas, electric and water are ready. Not sure if that includes sewage.

Shipping containers can be picked up for less than $3k in a lot of the country. These can become inexpensive building blocks. If you're capable of micro living you can achieve amazing things with them. None of these are things you would exactly want to replicate in terms of idea defensive construction, but they do give you ideas of what you can accomplish.
A lavish home built from shipping containers in Northern Ireland.

A modern shipping container home built in the Santa Cruz mountains of California (south of San Francsico)

Stacked containers being used as apartments. They can go 8 stories high without needing to reinforce the shipping containers. They're lifted a story off the ground similar to the apartment you're so excited about.

An entirely off grid home in Australia (I think) made from a 20ft shipping container. I didn't catch what they do with human waste, but they talk in detail about off grid power and water solutions.

Very detailed, video for an off grid home made from a shipping container. Not micro living. The youtube channel has a lot of info for self sufficient living.

Off grid shipping container vacation home in the US. This is not micro living.


Shipping containers are available in different sizes. 8x8x20 and 8x8x40 are the two most common sizes. The smaller of the two offers 160 square feet (minus whatever is used for insulation). This means that in your area 36,364 gallons of water will land on the roof each year. All of that water is potentially harvestable.

There is a whole lot you can do with minimal square footage. Americans tend to be very wasteful with resources, including space. In major cities as crowding becomes an issue people get more and more used to small spaces. If you're curious about making the most of small spaces, poke around on youtube and such looking at "micro living".

You brought up the topic of a zombie fort. Well, you're going to need systems for maintaining yourself over time. This will require food, water, and more. You can research the topic of self sufficient living to get a better idea of what that entails.

As far as modifications to the shipping container go, all of the windows don't need to be giant things. You can use narrow windows that will allow light through but won't allow a person to step through. You can use short wide windows up toward the top of the walls and you will let in light, but zombies wouldn't be able to climb through (these can be a foot and a half tall going from 6ft to 7.5ft off the ground). A skylight would also be an effective way to bring in light.

You can make use of your roof in a variety of ways. The roof can be used to harvest rain water (I previously gave you the figure to determine how much you can expect to get for any size roof in Ripply). The roof can be used to give solar panels access to the sun. The roof and side of the building can be used as an anchor point for a wind turbine reaching up into the air. Shipping containers are incredibly sturdy and can support crazy weight (as an example: 60k pounds stored weight, and they can be stacked half a dozen high). You wouldn't have an issue storing dozens cubic yards of soil on the roof for a garden. It would be exposed, but would be well out of arm's reach, and with a ladder or stairway to the roof you would be able to clear the zombies from around your structure.


Micro Living:


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Re: Zombie Fort.

Post by JeeperCreeper » Thu Mar 05, 2015 11:12 pm

Just a heads up, shipping containers have a horrendous moisture problem. I dont know how the pros do it, but the shipping containers I have seen always have water dripping from condensation 24/7.

But there is all this talk about money... but the thing is, you can't take money with you and when the zombies come, currency will be rendered useless. So spend it now before the coming collapse!!! There is no better way to spend money than dropping your entire savings and taking out high-interest loans (you wont have to pay them back in the ZPAW) to finance these short-notice plans. Because the zombie outbreak is a real and probable event... it is only a matter of time!!!
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Halfapint wrote:There are some exceptions like myself and jeepercreeper.... but we are the forum asshats. We protect our positions with gusto
zero11010 wrote:The girlfriend is a good shot with a 10/22.
Her secondary offense will be nagging.

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Re: Zombie Fort.

Post by zero11010 » Fri Mar 06, 2015 12:24 am

JeeperCreeper wrote:Just a heads up, shipping containers have a horrendous moisture problem. I dont know how the pros do it, but the shipping containers I have seen always have water dripping from condensation 24/7.
They're designed to protect goods stored out in the elements on ships crossing oceans. If they weren't effective moisture barriers the goods would get ruined.

I imagine each quality home has a decent ventilation set up.

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Re: Zombie Fort.

Post by JeeperCreeper » Fri Mar 06, 2015 12:32 am

zero11010 wrote:
JeeperCreeper wrote:Just a heads up, shipping containers have a horrendous moisture problem. I dont know how the pros do it, but the shipping containers I have seen always have water dripping from condensation 24/7.
They're designed to protect goods stored out in the elements on ships crossing oceans. If they weren't effective moisture barriers the goods would get ruined.

I imagine each quality home has a decent ventilation set up.
They were designed to be cheap steel stackable containers... there is no insulation nor advanced engineering. And by "seen" water and moisture issues, I mean actually "seen" (in person, not on internet or read about it or a friend told me)... like I was standing there, inside it, with water dripping on everything. It was the entrance to a bunker, that the designer had to come up with a plan because his bunker was getting flooded out (flooded with puddles). If you have cold metal and hot air, or hot metal and cold air... you're going to get moisture.

Maybe it depends on location, I dunno. Just going by what I have seen on a few different occasions on a few different locations. But I'd like to know how those vent systems are set up, or what insulation they use. I feel like it'd get pricey in a hurry
They see me trollin', they hatin'.... keyboardin' tryna catch me typin' dirty
Halfapint wrote:There are some exceptions like myself and jeepercreeper.... but we are the forum asshats. We protect our positions with gusto
zero11010 wrote:The girlfriend is a good shot with a 10/22.
Her secondary offense will be nagging.

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Re: Zombie Fort.

Post by zero11010 » Fri Mar 06, 2015 12:46 am

Totally not arguing with you. I'm telling you that it's very much a real thing. I've heard them referred to as wind water tight. As I understand this it doesn't mean you can drop one in a lake and it will keep the water out. It means it will keep rain and ocean spray out. In order for it to do that, it would also be very effective at keeping any moisture inside.

Ventilation to circulate air and prevent humidity build up would be important.
Image
Image

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Re: Zombie Fort.

Post by JeeperCreeper » Fri Mar 06, 2015 12:54 am

I get it, I just wonder how fast moisture can build up even with decent ventilation... I have never been in a 'finished' home made of shipping containers to know if it is a reliable way to keep moisture down. I know how bad some regular home basements can get with maximum airflow. I kinda think about a windshield (assuming it has similar thermal properties to metal), where you need a lot of heat and air flow from defrosters to keep it from fogging up, especially in relation to the surface area.

I just think for containers to work well, you need some kind of industrial duct work and vents and fans and stuff that I don't know anything really about.
They see me trollin', they hatin'.... keyboardin' tryna catch me typin' dirty
Halfapint wrote:There are some exceptions like myself and jeepercreeper.... but we are the forum asshats. We protect our positions with gusto
zero11010 wrote:The girlfriend is a good shot with a 10/22.
Her secondary offense will be nagging.

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Re: Zombie Fort.

Post by jlc87 » Fri Mar 06, 2015 3:23 am

Moisture is a problem, and fungus and mildew can easily form, the bacteria from it is an issue too. But if you get a good durable RV made of metal or steel or whatever you can get. It's like a mobile fortress. And if one has enough food and water and supplies and tools to keep the RV going, and some gasoline stored, hopefully a lot, if you drive out to the desert or really far out into the woods or up to the hills, you stand a good chance. Especially if you can find food in the woods, and preferably clean water. Here's some nice looking RV's: http://www.examiner.com/article/motorho ... apocalypse http://www.axebros.com/surviving-the-zo ... -a-camper/ http://longlonghoneymoon.com/2012/06/vi ... pocalypse/ http://jalopnik.com/360213/the-ten-best ... l-vehicles http://jalopnik.com/5514798/ecoroamer-t ... urvival-rv http://gentlemint.com/tack/7423/

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Re: Zombie Fort.

Post by jlc87 » Fri Mar 06, 2015 3:25 am

Tell me which RV looks the best and most durable. :mrgreen:

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Re: Zombie Fort.

Post by JeeperCreeper » Fri Mar 06, 2015 3:34 am

jlc87 wrote:Tell me which RV looks the best and most durable. :mrgreen:
Jurassic Park 2... just don't let a T-Rex push it over a cliff
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Halfapint wrote:There are some exceptions like myself and jeepercreeper.... but we are the forum asshats. We protect our positions with gusto
zero11010 wrote:The girlfriend is a good shot with a 10/22.
Her secondary offense will be nagging.

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Re: Zombie Fort.

Post by jlc87 » Fri Mar 06, 2015 3:38 am

JeeperCreeper wrote:
jlc87 wrote:Tell me which RV looks the best and most durable. :mrgreen:
Jurassic Park 2... just don't let a T-Rex push it over a cliff
Lol yeah... poor Eddie. :( The EarthRoamer looks fantastic, by the way. It even has a bathroom. :shock:

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Re: Zombie Fort.

Post by jlc87 » Sat Mar 07, 2015 6:46 am

This looks pretty badass. Image

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Re: Zombie Fort.

Post by jlc87 » Sat Mar 07, 2015 7:10 am

http://earthroamer.com/ Watch the videos and tell me if it would be good for the ZPAW. :D

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Re: Zombie Fort.

Post by procyon » Sun Mar 08, 2015 5:34 pm

Just dropping a comment on the shipping container / condensation issue.
zero11010 wrote:Totally not arguing with you. I'm telling you that it's very much a real thing. I've heard them referred to as wind water tight.
That can be true. But will never be the case with a container you plan to live in.
When shipping materials/cargo in those containers - you don't have to worry about it suffocating.
You will if you live in one.

And if you circulate air inside a metal container, as soon as you put air that is warmer than the metal into it - you are going to get condensation.

This happens with all metal structures. Whether it is a container, metal pole shed/barn, or whatever.

ETA
This same issue is why you have to plumb toilets so that they don't just fill with cold water - or they will be covered with condensation.
... I will show you fear in a handful of dust...

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Re: Zombie Fort.

Post by JeeperCreeper » Sun Mar 08, 2015 6:53 pm

procyon wrote:
This same issue is why you have to plumb toilets so that they don't just fill with cold water - or they will be covered with condensation.
I know nothing of these toilets... Here at ZS, I feel like we all shit in the woods in a hole :awesome:
They see me trollin', they hatin'.... keyboardin' tryna catch me typin' dirty
Halfapint wrote:There are some exceptions like myself and jeepercreeper.... but we are the forum asshats. We protect our positions with gusto
zero11010 wrote:The girlfriend is a good shot with a 10/22.
Her secondary offense will be nagging.

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Re: Zombie Fort.

Post by jlc87 » Sun Mar 08, 2015 10:21 pm

JeeperCreeper wrote:
procyon wrote:
This same issue is why you have to plumb toilets so that they don't just fill with cold water - or they will be covered with condensation.
I know nothing of these toilets... Here at ZS, I feel like we all shit in the woods in a hole :awesome:
Lmao. :lol: What do you think about the EarthRoamer? And shitting in the woods lololol :lol:

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Re: Zombie Fort.

Post by zero11010 » Mon Mar 09, 2015 10:38 am

procyon wrote:Just dropping a comment on the shipping container / condensation issue.
zero11010 wrote:Totally not arguing with you. I'm telling you that it's very much a real thing. I've heard them referred to as wind water tight.
That can be true. But will never be the case with a container you plan to live in.
When shipping materials/cargo in those containers - you don't have to worry about it suffocating.
You will if you live in one.

And if you circulate air inside a metal container, as soon as you put air that is warmer than the metal into it - you are going to get condensation.

This happens with all metal structures. Whether it is a container, metal pole shed/barn, or whatever.
I believe most of the videos I embedded show substantial insulation being installed. It looks like most people use a foam that will coat the top/bottom/sides. I imagine this cuts down on condensation. And, I believe in each instance I embedded people used lots of windows and doors as well to further help with ventilation.

I've considered the idea of placing an 8x8x20 container underground with a hidden entrance, with a pair of 8x8x20 containers above ground. The below ground container would need plenty of ventilation, sure, but the air inside would be as apt to get warm with that portion of the structure underground.

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Re: Zombie Fort.

Post by JeeperCreeper » Mon Mar 09, 2015 11:14 am

Zero, I'd look up to see what issues there were with underground containers. Since they were designed to be stacked, the vertical pressure they can handle is substantial, but I've heard rumors that the lateral pressure that they withstand is weak. So lots of buried containers have collapsed in sides.

But that's something I don't know for sure, just some stuff I've picked up from somewhere....
They see me trollin', they hatin'.... keyboardin' tryna catch me typin' dirty
Halfapint wrote:There are some exceptions like myself and jeepercreeper.... but we are the forum asshats. We protect our positions with gusto
zero11010 wrote:The girlfriend is a good shot with a 10/22.
Her secondary offense will be nagging.

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Re: Zombie Fort.

Post by zero11010 » Mon Mar 09, 2015 12:03 pm

JeeperCreeper wrote:Zero, I'd look up to see what issues there were with underground containers. Since they were designed to be stacked, the vertical pressure they can handle is substantial, but I've heard rumors that the lateral pressure that they withstand is weak. So lots of buried containers have collapsed in sides.

But that's something I don't know for sure, just some stuff I've picked up from somewhere....
Will look into it! I've seen a bunch of examples in news articles and on youtube. But, to your point, a lot of this has been "I just built this thing yesterday and I love it!" very little of it is looking at something that has been in place for years at the time of the reporting.

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Re: Zombie Fort.

Post by procyon » Mon Mar 09, 2015 4:11 pm

JeeperCreeper wrote:
procyon wrote:
This same issue is why you have to plumb toilets so that they don't just fill with cold water - or they will be covered with condensation.
I know nothing of these toilets... Here at ZS, I feel like we all shit in the woods in a hole :awesome:
Ok. That explains what I have been smelling down by the creek...

And you could insulate containers so that condensation wasn't such an issue - just like your fridge can keep stuff cold without being covered in water all the time. The insulation will just need well sealed against the metal.
... I will show you fear in a handful of dust...

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Re: Zombie Fort.

Post by JeeperCreeper » Mon Mar 09, 2015 4:58 pm

procyon wrote:
JeeperCreeper wrote:
procyon wrote:
This same issue is why you have to plumb toilets so that they don't just fill with cold water - or they will be covered with condensation.
I know nothing of these toilets... Here at ZS, I feel like we all shit in the woods in a hole :awesome:
Ok. That explains what I have been smelling down by the creek...

And you could insulate containers so that condensation wasn't such an issue - just like your fridge can keep stuff cold without being covered in water all the time. The insulation will just need well sealed against the metal.
With this talk of fridges, I was waiting for you to say to convert the condensation in to clean drinking water... Who has an engineering degree around here?? I think we are on to something
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Halfapint wrote:There are some exceptions like myself and jeepercreeper.... but we are the forum asshats. We protect our positions with gusto
zero11010 wrote:The girlfriend is a good shot with a 10/22.
Her secondary offense will be nagging.

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Re: Zombie Fort.

Post by jlc87 » Tue Mar 10, 2015 2:03 am

Ah, underground... so zeds can't get to you? How about an underground bunker? And containers in case the fridge fails? Or just for general storage? :awesome:

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Re: Zombie Fort.

Post by jlc87 » Mon Mar 16, 2015 6:21 pm

Hello? :shock:

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