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PostPosted: Thu Dec 18, 2014 2:30 pm 
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This is the scenario:
Re: What is your dream load out/set up against ragers?
Supposely to shoot the zombie every day until winter, around 30-50 rounds each day, would be preferable, rotate the weapons in use, or use always the same until they last?


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 19, 2014 12:41 am 
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Chalk this one up to the "it depends" category. The key would be to remain adaptable. Besides, anything can happen

Other things of note:
-how many weapons do you have
-what type of weapons are they
-what type and how much ammo

Example, if I have an AK with surplus corrosive ammo and a revolver with cast bullets, my issues with the weapon will be different than if I have a bolt-action Winchester 70 hunting rifle and a Glock shooting FMJ.

Another example, if I have a Keltec PF9 pocket pistol, it will probably not run for as long as a full-size service pistol like a Glock or Beretta because that is not what it was designed to do.

For me, if I am in the ZPAW and slinging lead consistently, I would be at least field stripping my weapons every night if possible. But if I have 2 rifles, for example, and I used one throughout the day, I would clean that one that night while I rotate the other one so I am not vulnerable while cleaning.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 19, 2014 4:55 am 
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JeeperCreeper wrote:
-how many weapons do you have
-what type of weapons are they
-what type and how much ammo

I specified a setup that I think could be nice during a zombi apocalypse assuming to have a safe place with no budget limits, on that link, while I have not clear idea about the quantity of ammo since I have no idea of the necessary spaces.

Summary:
5 SIG Sauer Carbon Fiber 516
5 Heckler & Koch HK416 A5 - 14.5"
5 SCAR-L Mk 16 Mod 0

5 SIG522 SWAT
5 Smith&Wesson M&P 15-22
5 Smith&Wesson Model 617

5 Beretta 92FS
5 Smith&Wesson Model 929


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 19, 2014 5:38 am 
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alessandro wrote:
Summary:
5 SIG Sauer Carbon Fiber 516 @ $2150 = $10750
5 Heckler & Koch HK416 A5 - 14.5" @ $500 = $2500
5 SCAR-L Mk 16 Mod 0 @ $2000 = $10000 (at the very fucking cheapest)

5 SIG522 SWAT @ N/A couldn't find one on gunbroker (its what I'm going off of)
5 Smith&Wesson M&P 15-22 @ $420 = $2100
5 Smith&Wesson Model 617 @ $710 = $3550

5 Beretta 92FS @ $500 = $2500
5 Smith&Wesson Model 929 @ $1399 = $6995

For a grand total of = $38395 that is not including the SIG22 SWAT that I couldn't find on any weapon seller


So unless you post a pic with your load out of over 40k worth of weapons in not only double or triplicate but quadruplicate.... You're living in a a massive pipe dream. OK OK you said "no budget limits" but we are on the internet not fantasy land. We all have a budget, especially when it comes to over $40,000 worth of weapons, not including ammuntion.

So with all this aside, what is your question?!?! You asked "Which is better for maintenance form for multiple weapons" what do do you mean?? What weapons do you ACTUALLY have? Not your dream quadruplicate load out of 8 weapons. What. Do. You. Own.

Edit: I'm a huge dick

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 19, 2014 5:48 am 
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Halfapint wrote:
alessandro wrote:
Summary:
5 SIG Sauer Carbon Fiber 516 @ $2150 = $10750
5 Heckler & Koch HK416 A5 - 14.5" @ $500 = $2500
5 SCAR-L Mk 16 Mod 0 @ $2000 = $10000 (at the very fucking cheapest)

5 SIG522 SWAT @ N/A couldn't find one on gunbroker (its what I'm going off of)
5 Smith&Wesson M&P 15-22 @ $420 = $2100
5 Smith&Wesson Model 617 @ $710 = $3550

5 Beretta 92FS @ $500 = $2500
5 Smith&Wesson Model 929 @ $1399 = $6995

For a grand total of = $38395 that is not including the SIG22 SWAT that I couldn't find on any weapon seller


So unless you post a pic with your load out of over 40k worth of weapons in not only double or triplicate but quadruplicate.... You're living in a a massive pipe dream. OK OK you said "no budget limits" but we are on the internet not fantasy land. We all have a budget, especially when it comes to over $40,000 worth of weapons, not including ammuntion.

So with all this aside, what is your question?!?! You asked "Which is better for maintenance form for multiple weapons" what do do you mean?? What weapons do you ACTUALLY have? Not your dream quadruplicate load out of 8 weapons. What. Do. You. Own.

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I like huge dicks, Halfapint, so you are OK in my book.... hahaha


All I can say is, for 40 guns, you must have 1 really big backpack to carry them around in.

But... for that question.... with that aresenal... rotate them everyday. So the ones you dont use, clean, the ones you use, clean tomorow.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 19, 2014 6:36 am 
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Halfapint wrote:
"Which is better for maintenance form for multiple weapons" what do do you mean?

It's a fantasy dream setup, set in a fantasy scenario of a zombie apocalypse.

Halfapint wrote:
What weapons do you ACTUALLY have?

Nothing, but this isn't important, while I like respond in the most appropriate way possible, even if it is a scenario of fantasy, but since I haven't that knowledge I asked that question.

JeeperCreeper wrote:
for 40 guns, you must have 1 really big backpack to carry them around in.

In that scenario was thought a fixed secure position so you don't need to carry anything.
Later, on that topic, I would like make some math, for at least approximating the number of rounds with a big additional margin.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 19, 2014 9:13 am 
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alessandro wrote:
JeeperCreeper wrote:
-how many weapons do you have
-what type of weapons are they
-what type and how much ammo

I specified a setup that I think could be nice during a zombi apocalypse assuming to have a safe place with no budget limits, on that link, while I have not clear idea about the quantity of ammo since I have no idea of the necessary spaces.

Summary:
5 SIG Sauer Carbon Fiber 516
5 Heckler & Koch HK416 A5 - 14.5"
5 SCAR-L Mk 16 Mod 0

5 SIG522 SWAT
5 Smith&Wesson M&P 15-22
5 Smith&Wesson Model 617

5 Beretta 92FS
5 Smith&Wesson Model 929


LOL....I hate to nitpick...

5 SIG Sauer Carbon Fiber 516 (because paying $600 extra to have carbon fiber AR furniture during a ZPAW is sexy)
5 Heckler & Koch HK416 A5 - 14.5" ( $3K overpriced rifle garbage, you can buy 15 good AR rifles for the price of 5 of those )
5 SCAR-L Mk 16 Mod 0 (Are we talking the real military gun, airsoft, or COD?)

5 SIG522 SWAT (overpriced $600, crappy, finicky .22lr rifle in a cool airsoft plastic shell...I would pass on this one. Way more reliable options)
5 Smith&Wesson M&P 15-22 (Actually a good choice, get 10 of these and dump the Sig522)
5 Smith&Wesson Model 617 (another overpriced gun, but a classic, and bombproof. problem is its a 10 shot .22 revolver that weighs almost 3lb. Makes a good club I guess)

5 Beretta 92FS (OK choice)
5 Smith&Wesson Model 929[/quote] (Why??? +$1K to have a 3lb, 8 shot, 9mm revolver?)

Remember....With the exception of that S&W 617....Expensive does not equal long lasting durability.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 19, 2014 11:26 am 
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Mikeyboy wrote:
5 SCAR-L Mk 16 Mod 0 (Are we talking the real military gun, airsoft, or COD?)

The military assault rifle.

Mikeyboy wrote:
5 SIG522 SWAT (overpriced $600, crappy, finicky .22lr rifle in a cool airsoft plastic shell...I would pass on this one. Way more reliable options)
...
Expensive does not equal long lasting durability.

I have put the SIG522 SWAT essentially because is a SIG, a brand usually well seen, but I will drop it from the list without issue.

Mikeyboy wrote:
5 Smith&Wesson Model 929 (Why??? +$1K to have a 3lb, 8 shot, 9mm revolver?)

I would like add a 9mm modern revolver but I have not found anything interesting, so since the Smith&Wesson .22 caliber is well regarded I specified another model from the same producer.

I have made that list based on the review that I read and some video on youtube.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 19, 2014 11:51 am 
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alessandro wrote:
In that scenario was thought a fixed secure position so you don't need to carry anything.
Later, on that topic, I would like make some math, for at least approximating the number of rounds with a big additional margin.


Since this is a sort of "ideal setup," not reality, I'd say you look at how many people are living in Italy. Assuming your retreat is in Italy. Then I would store that number of bullets. But if that seems like too many, I would look at how many people live within 100 kilometers of you, and pick a number of rounds equal to that. If that still seems like too many, I would figure out how man people live within 10 km, I would double that number, and stock that many rounds of ammunition.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 19, 2014 2:53 pm 
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In the end I used a more simplified and approximate approach but remain other critical issue without any solutions.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 19, 2014 2:59 pm 
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JeeperCreeper wrote:
I like huge dicks, Halfapint, so you are OK in my book.... hahaha



BUAHAHAHAHAHAHA I should sig that!

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 19, 2014 3:19 pm 
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JeeperCreeper wrote:


I like huge dicks, Halfapint, so you are OK in my book.... hahaha



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PostPosted: Fri Dec 19, 2014 3:28 pm 
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Instead of having a variety of overpriced propriety system firearms, doesn't it make more sense to stick to a single platform that share parts, and then also having lots of spare parts handy?

To answer the original question, now that I have an understanding of what platform you are referring to. 30-50 rounds a day isn't that much... That's less than two magazines. Even at 50 rounds a day, that's 350 rounds a week. Less than many people will shoot in a single range session.

If I had multiple rifles, I would likely rotate them out once every week or two for the first few months. Not as a form of maintenance, but to ensure that all the guns I owned were in fine working order. After that, I'd stick with one until it is no longer serviceable.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 19, 2014 3:43 pm 
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Sworbeyegib wrote:
JeeperCreeper wrote:


I like huge dicks, Halfapint, so you are OK in my book.... hahaha



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Ambiguity makes it all the better...


Now, for this thread, I have a simple solution: buy a HiPoint and never clean it... And hope they still honor the lifetime warranty even during the ZPAW

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 19, 2014 5:01 pm 
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Sworbeyegib wrote:
Instead of having a variety of overpriced propriety system firearms, doesn't it make more sense to stick to a single platform that share parts, and then also having lots of spare parts handy?

This is what I have been trying to tell people the last few years.

This is why I got rid of everything else (well, that and I was poor)

2 AK's and 2 Glocks are the ideal loadout for 2 adults, provided they are the same (not a G19 and a G42)

Common mags, common ammo, common parts. Sure, buy 5, or 15 if you like. Just buy shit that is compatible. Think systemically. Find a system that does what you need, train hard, and stack it deep.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 19, 2014 5:59 pm 
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But buying three different styles of rifle that all essentially serve the same function is a bit silly, even in a fictional arsenal.

But there is nothing wrong with having a little versatility and diversity. Assuming that the platforms you are choosing serve some sort of different function. Maybe you want to mix in some .308's in with some decent glass. Maybe some 12 gauges with an assortment of ammo.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 20, 2014 2:41 am 
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Sworbeyegib wrote:
Instead of having a variety of overpriced propriety system firearms

Since is a fantasy the price isn't an problem.
Sworbeyegib wrote:
doesn't it make more sense to stick to a single platform that share parts, and then also having lots of spare parts handy?

Sure but:
- How can I be sure that the platform chosen will behave under different conditions?
- I haven't see a single platform that for variety and quality is composed from the best (for what read on review and users opinion around the Net).
So If a type of firearm is good, while another is so so, the only thing that remain is the share of magazine, but a magazine can be filled or empty by hand for put the round on a different magazine with the same caliber.
- warning that "reason" is silly but choose a single platform take away part of the fun :D

Sworbeyegib wrote:
30-50 rounds a day isn't that much...
Less than many people will shoot in a single range session.

Reasons behind so few shoot a day:
- the position is safe with plently of water, food, etc.
- I do not want to attract more zombies from a greater distance with continuous noise
I will shoot hidden to prevent them to see me but even with suppressor a certain quantity of noise remain.
Since usually on movie when a zombies don't see humans remain calm instead of became frenzy but noise attract their attentions.
When the noise disapper some remain on the spot while other go away.
- I have other things to do as attempts to farming and raising chickens, initially as form on integration for the food, later as main food, since if i'm not wrong the longest surival food could last at max 10 years.

Sworbeyegib wrote:
Assuming that the platforms you are choosing serve some sort of different function.

Ideally the NATO from shoot from the top of the house.
The 9mm for when I go around the house or remain on the field, so I don't want the weight and the space that take a longer firearm with me.
The 22mm for shooting from the perimeter.
But:
- I don't know if the 22mm is effective against zombi, plus the issue about reliability of this type of ammunition in the course of time learned little time ago
- The 9mm is something sure that takes up less space and at least a little less weight respect the 5.56x45mm NATO and for hand gun should be more manageable respect more heavy caliber.

But I will make the same some little adjustment on the list, to try to simplify it a bit.
From the moment I have eliminated the SCAR-L Mk 16 Mod 0.
If I take away the .22 caliber I want add a recent pistol caliber carbine on the 9mm list but there aren't many for that caliber.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 20, 2014 5:11 am 
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Your original "arsenal" included 3 different types of 5.56 carbines. All of these fit the same envelope of use... so why not pick the one you want and stick with it? The same goes for the two .22lr rifles you chose, why do you need to different platforms that for intents and purposes do the same thing? If one of your rifles breaks down beyond your repair, now you have spare parts for your other 9 rifles.
When I say diversify, I mean that you should have different platforms to fit different purposes of use, not multiple platforms that all are meant to do the same thing. A 12 gauge shotgun serves an entirely different purpose than a 5.56 carbine. A .308 serves a different purpose than a .22lr. But 3 different, 5.56 carbines all serve the same function.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 20, 2014 5:38 am 
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How about a Super-Soaker filled with water and Pine-Sol? That way it cleans while you shoot...

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 20, 2014 7:48 am 
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Sworbeyegib wrote:
Your original "arsenal" included 3 different types of 5.56 carbines. All of these fit the same envelope of use... so why not pick the one you want and stick with it?

Essentially for two silly reasons:
- I don't known which is the best
- Choose only one type of firearm for caliber take away part of the fun.
Anyway I make another list more essential since is true that is a lot more pratical. :D

Put aside that someone known which is the weak point of firearm?
For example if the weak point is formed by the smaller internal components I could add on the list a lot of spare parts, instead a lot more of identical weapon for each caliber.

Interesting from the follow article:
Heckler & Koch HK416
is possible known that the barrel have a 20,000 round service life.


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Sworbeyegib wrote:
But buying three different styles of rifle that all essentially serve the same function is a bit silly, even in a fictional arsenal.

But there is nothing wrong with having a little versatility and diversity. Assuming that the platforms you are choosing serve some sort of different function. Maybe you want to mix in some .308's in with some decent glass. Maybe some 12 gauges with an assortment of ammo.


Yeah I have to agree with Kutter and Sworbeyegib, it makes more sense to buy enough guns for everyone in your group, all the same so parts and magazines can be shared. Plus the manual of arms (learning to use the gun reliably and accurately) is easier. If you have several different guns in your group and your gun breaks, you pick up a buddies gun that has been killed, and your don't know where the safety is or how to clear a jam . It's better if everyone trains and carries the same gun.

If you have over $40000 to spend, buy two rifles, AK or AR, and two semi auto pistols (Glock, M&P, or if you must have quality get an H&K or Sig) for each person. Then buy spare parts, spring kits, barrels, LOTS of extra mags, firing pins. Like Sworrbeyegib said, then maybe get a few nice long range guns in .308 or even better .338 lapua with good scopes and a few shotguns and 22 rifles for hunting. I see no point in getting any 22 pistols. If you want something concealable use the Glock/M&P/Sig. If you want something that give you more rounds per pound I would still prefer a 22 rifle over a 22 pistol in the paw.

Can't over state the need for lots of mags, they are the cause of most gun malfunctions and one of the first parts to wear out. Plus in the middle of a horde of Zombies you don't have time to be running around trying to pick up dropped mags and reload them. Also if your on the run there are times your going to have to reload and drop the empty mag so your going to lose some over time.

I would think a minimum number of mags would be 20 per rifle.

Spend the rest of the Internet Dollars on ammo in proportion to the guns you have.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2015 6:56 pm 
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As I recall, Patriots by James Wesley Rawles had a well thought out system of firearms.

I think it was all M16s and 1911s, but it's been a while since I read that. They had cars with interchangeable parts, too.

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Maintenance is easy. Shoot as much as you need to, and give them a quick cleaning whenever you have nothing better to do. So long as you're not in the desert you don't need to be too anal about maintenance.


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PostPosted: Sat May 30, 2015 9:28 am 
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Kutter_0311 wrote:
Sworbeyegib wrote:
Instead of having a variety of overpriced propriety system firearms, doesn't it make more sense to stick to a single platform that share parts, and then also having lots of spare parts handy?

This is what I have been trying to tell people the last few years.

This is why I got rid of everything else (well, that and I was poor)

2 AK's and 2 Glocks are the ideal loadout for 2 adults, provided they are the same (not a G19 and a G42)

Common mags, common ammo, common parts. Sure, buy 5, or 15 if you like. Just buy shit that is compatible. Think systemically. Find a system that does what you need, train hard, and stack it deep.


I couldn't agree with this more. This has really opened my eyes. All these other firearms I have. And not enough ammo for the ones I will actually use. Makes a lot of sense to sell off some stuff and buy some stuff that would be used and interchangeable. I'm in the glock/AK camp too. BUt I have several other caliber weapons for various hobby reasons. This is really going to make me think about rearranging my goals. And perhaps selling some stuff off. At this point I build AK's. But still don't have enough ammo stockpiled for them. Or mags for that matter. Makes me even think I should standardize the AK's that I build. And stop mixing up Yugo rifles with standard AKM rifles. As all parts are not interchangeable. And just run standard AKM's. Their lighter anyway. Hell I may just sell some of my AK's off.

Interesting point, Kutter. Very interesting.

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