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PostPosted: Mon Dec 15, 2014 6:17 pm 
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Doctorr Fabulous wrote:
cyruspace wrote:

But this isn't new. It's the same thing you did to "prove" that speed crawling is an important survival skill.


No, that is not what I wrote, apparently you stopped reading the thread regarding my book, yet you comment! I am not mad I am looking at this as an opportunity to educate and try to help people.

This is basically what I wrote over a few posts in my book thread:

1. The military did or does teach 2 different crawls the high and low crawl, they train crawling skills!
2. I showed a video of the world record speed crawler, who is faster then many people can run.
3. I explained how speed crawling is not training in a vacuum. It can be used to develop cardiovascular endurance, anaerobic power and shoulder strength and endurance.
4. I explain how speed crawling can be considered a superior exercise to a similar exercise the front lateral raise because when speed crawling you are using far more muscles.
5. I introduce the term scrambling (how many have heard of that term before?) which is moving over difficult terrain using both hands and feet, why? It's for speed and safety reasons! I then presented a video showing scrambling up a very steep long hill. In human conflict many people have used difficult terrain in defense.
6. I did write about the scenario of crawling in a sewer or storm drain, I believe I also talked about military manuals considering fighting in sewer or storm drains.
7. There was a very short lived show on TV on which the star was supposed ex special forces and one of the first things he mentioned was a good way to enter a city without notice is to consider the storm drains or sewers.
8. I also said it was an ancillary technique, which means not an important consideration. I compared it to the third fire starter that may never be used but nice to have if you need it. It's also like your pistol and rifle combination, you may never need your pistol because apparently guns never jam or break and running out of ammo for your rifle is never a concern!
9. Since I call speed crawling an ancillary technique I give a recommendation of only training it a minute or so twice a week and how it can be part of a general warm up or shoulder warm up so the exercise does not even take time away from other exercises!
10. I posted an article showing that speed crawling is used as part of the physical training test for firemen because they may have to go into tight spaces looking for victims. Here is the kicker. The crawling event is timed!!!!! As one of the good guys I have no problems training to potentially rescue victims! I could have just mentioned this 10th point and it would have proven that speed crawling has value in a survival situation, unless as part of your PAW face you won't try to rescue people.

Later in my book thread I mention the importance of developing strength for performing muscle ups to be able to climb into windows or over fences and what do you know I posted an article showing special forces involved in a physical contest in which the muscle up was one of the events! Also, if you read military manuals they mention the advantage of entering buildings through upper floors, that it's better to fight down into a building then up. So climbing is also important.

But, you are entitled to your opinion.

I just hijacked my own thread! :roll:

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 15, 2014 6:38 pm 
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Team Z wins because they need none.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 15, 2014 6:49 pm 
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Seems there are 2 sides to the question as others have mentioned.

There is the specialized gun crowd and I guess me :lol: considering commonality of ammo.

So the position is for you guys a specialized; which by definition means limited, gun is more important then having the ammo to keep all guns in the fight? What good is a limited gun if you don't have ammo for it?

Another issue not addressed by you guys in your gun bazaar is you need to be efficient as a group so everyone has to train to be proficient with each weapon, right? This is a very big strike against having the gun bazaar.

With commonality you only have to train with and be proficient with 1 weapon! This is a huge plus for commonality

If you group already has the gun bazaar and members are proficient with their weapon then you should consider cross training weapons and make sure everyone has comparable ammo levels.

If you are just starting a group and getting weapons I would highly consider commonality.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 15, 2014 7:04 pm 
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cyruspace wrote:
WutsFrequencyKeneth wrote:
I just plan to have ammo for the guns I have. I'm not planning on relying on other peoples ammo. Pretty much eliminates all those other crazy problems.


Being self reliant is the overall idea in preparing!
However, don't be a loan wolf at your own detriment.
A squad is more capable then an individual.

I hope I don't have to be in the army to know that.


I never said I was a lone wolf or planning to be.

However, just like anyone in the military, you establish your mission parameters and set goal posts and then decide what it takes to accomplish that.

I'm not preparing for an indefinite collapse of society that requires a decade-long rebuilding effort, and even longer to establish current modern manufacturing methods. That's just... ludicrous. I have planned for what I see as a reasonable amount of time to be self-sufficient for. If you think you can't handle stocking enough ammo to last 30 or even 90 days, then you're planning to do a lot more shooting than I think any reasonable person should be planning to do in an /practical/ or /likely/ scenario in /reasonable/ expectations.

ETA: This is why I think your "logical argument" is failing you, when you consider "is one person being down a gun a problem?" Because you're missing the forest for the trees. You should start by addressing "Why did he run out of ammo in the first place?" and address that problem. You're either planning on shooting WAY too much, deliberately failing to plan avoidance of situations that require some level of suppressing fire for whatever reason, or you just only brought 3 or 4 rounds and screwed up in being prepared at all.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 15, 2014 7:24 pm 
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I don't see anyone saying "ammunition commonality is stupid" but I do see a lot of folks saying "ammunition commonality isn't everything."


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 15, 2014 8:19 pm 
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cyruspace wrote:
Seems there are 2 sides to the question as others have mentioned.


There are a lot more than "2 sides" to what people have been talking about here.

cyruspace wrote:
If you are just starting a group and getting weapons I would highly consider commonality.


This should have been the first line of your OP, but with "I have been thinking..." stuck in front of it.

Weapons commonality is a neat idea. But the reality is far more complicated. Things like "rates of fire" and "which group is going to run out of ammo first" are nice abstract ideas, but reality does not show this to be the case.

In paintball, you give 4 players each 150 balls. Are they going to run out at the same time? No. Are they going to fire at the same rate? No. If you give one player 10 balls, one 150 balls, one 300 balls, and one 800 balls, who will run out first? Probably the person with 300 or the person with 800. Why? Because they play differently. I'd usually walk on to the field with 20 balls, and walk off with 16-18 left.

I'm willing to bet any close examination of military engagements has similar variability. The number of rounds one walks off a battlefield with is going to depend on what opportunity people had to expend rounds, their personal inclination towards expending rounds, and their equipment.

So please remember: the real world is messy. It does not conform to neat logic exercises.

People in this thread have been saying there are variables you have not considered. On some abstract idea of a battlefield, firearms commonality would be nice. But if you have a group with one AK, one AR, one HK, and one FN, do you all ditch your semi-auto fighting rifles to grab single shot break open shotguns just so you have weapons and ammo commonality? Let me just say "I hope not."

Then there is a huge point which has been made. You have been talking about a PAW. Well, what what kind of group is likely to form in some sort of PAW? A group of well trained, experienced, in shape, gun lovers who happen to have a whole bunch of extra guns in the basement they can draw from to achieve firearms commonality with the rest of this ad-hoc PAW mutual assistance group? Its possible, but I'd sooner put my money on a lottery ticket.

Now, if you are forming up some friends, and are discussing what you want to do before any SHTF situation, then sure, discuss commonality. But "survivalists" are very independent people, with minds of their own, and tend not to join with the rest of the social group. Which is why they are survivalists. They don't think like the rest of society. They are contrarian. So trying to corral that bunch into accepting some standard or platform you like is going to be a difficult feat.

But what happens once they have all agreed the Remington 870 is what they are going to standardize on? (cuz they all happened to have 870's, and liked the platform, and got to drinking, and decided to run with that). How many rounds is everyone going to carry? What type of rounds are they going to carry? Are there going to be flashlights on the guns? What will the percentage of buckshot to slugs be? Are you going to use #4, #2, #1, 00, or 000? What type of slugs? What sights? Bead, rifle or ghostring? Or maybe electronic or scopes?

By about the third round table discussion, everybody is pissed, no one can agree, there is no more beer, and the group is done.

So yeah, firearms commonality is nice, but there are other things to consider. The real world is messy. Very messy.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 15, 2014 8:32 pm 
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What about my composite method.

Team A of 4 members has all same cal

Team B of 4 members has 2 members with same cal and the other 2 with the same cal of a different sort.

Team A runs out of ammo and everyone is out of ammo

Team B runs out of one cal but still has some of the other cal because it is more accurate and better at distance shots. (or maybe has better stopping power, or any of the many variables of different calibers)

Team B wins and is able to resupply at the next outpost, and has 2 caliber options for resupply.

Or

Team A has all same cal

Team B has all different cal

Team A fires all their shots while Team B fires minimal shots while waiting for Team A to run out. After Team A runs out Team B over runs Team A's position with plenty of ammo still available to them.

On and on one can tailor how the scenario plays out. Because this is a mental game not in the heat of the moment in battle. Trying to control the variables is a ridiculous thing to do because people, combat, and weapon systems are filled with variables.

You can work the math all you want, but that does not equate to actually what will happen. In fact I would suspect the reality is very different from the math most of the time when there is complex situations that have a large amount of variables such as combat in PAW.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 15, 2014 11:32 pm 
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Doctorr Fabulous wrote:
The fastest way to get an answer to a question is to go post an obviously wrongness answer. OTOH, continuing to defend those answers...

I also disagree that a discussion board alleviates the burden of reading. If you know you don't know much at all about guns, preparedness, and gun-related topics, maybe avoid posting "this is what you should do" threads. Or in other words, if you have a question, ask, don't tell.

Those are valid points, I can't argue with them.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2014 12:44 am 
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cyruspace wrote:
If you are just starting a group and getting weapons I would highly consider commonality.

I don't think many of us disagree with that. My original point is that most of us aren't members of dedicated survival groups, and most of the people that would make up our "group" are already at the gun bazaar stage.

KGBrick wrote:
I don't see anyone saying "ammunition commonality is stupid" but I do see a lot of folks saying "ammunition commonality isn't everything."

Yes. Ammo commonality isn't one of the most important considerations. Although it also isn't mutually exclusive with the more important considerations.

OP, I think there are a few other reasons you've been getting much negative feedback in this thread.

One is that this has come up before, quite a few times. This has a tendency to make some people play devil's advocate. Duplicate threads also really annoy some people. Personally, I think that if there isn't a similar thread on the first few pages of a subforum then making a new one isn't a big deal. Still, you might want to search before creating threads.

Next is writing style. The nature of written language makes misinterpretation easy. It's possible to read your posts in a way that makes you seem like an annoying blowhard who hasn't thought everything through but still feels compelled to tell others all about the best way of doing things. I don't think that's what you mean to be doing, I think you're just sharing what you've been thinking about and trying to start discussion. Still, once someone has decided you're an annoying blowhard that's probably the way they'll read your posts by default until something changes their mind.

Last is that many people on the this board are focused on preparing for relatively common, relatively short duration disasters (hurricanes, job loss, riots, etc.). They spend little or no time and money preparing for the less likely, more extreme long-duration disasters. More than that, sometimes focusing on long-term grid-down disasters is seen as detrimental to getting prepared for the more likely disasters.* It is also sometimes seen as less serious (or even crazy) discussion that distracts from the more serious discussion and makes ZS look bad. I personally think that part of ZS is prepping for worst-case scenarios, but I'm not in charge of anything and could be misinterpreting the mission statement. To keep some people from getting too bent out of shape you might want to throw some disclaimers up saying that you're talking about a long-term, grid down situation, however unlikely that may be.
*It would probably be more accurate to say that preparations for more likely short term disasters are still going to be good for less likely long term disasters. Some examples of how it is seen as detrimental is that if someone puts all their money into tens of thousands of rounds of ammo and several years worth of freeze dried food, and they don't have the cash to get themselves through a job loss, that person is doing it wrong. If a person doesn't buy a generator because it will be useless after the EMP, and then their food spoils after the next hurricane knocks out the power, that person is doing it wrong.


Last edited by quazi on Sun Jan 11, 2015 11:21 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2014 1:38 am 
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If commonality is that important than I guess we here at the hacienda are screwed. If I were trying to raise a private army or something similar I might give it more than a passing nod. I am going to be way too busy doing other things if someone dies in a firefight who is with me than worry about crossloading ammo.

It is pretty liberating actually not to be constrained to one type of firearm or caliber for a group as opposed to the monolithic way the military does things. I can be more versatile and tailor weapons to a person as opposed to everyone being forced to carry Mosins or whatever.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2014 2:56 am 
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What about us who use weapons that take several different calibers, with a quick parts change?


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2014 6:31 am 
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OK, let's take this back to step 1.... What if I don't have 3 friends to make a 4 man SHTF tactical team?

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2014 7:30 am 
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Both commonality and diversity have their merits and drawbacks. Personally, I like a little diversity once I hit a certain number of people. Why? Because .223 might not be the most efficient/effective at times, for example against a Grizzly. I personally believe that if you stockpile enough ammo for a caliber and there is no need to barter for ammo, a common caliber would be fine in your situation. But as others have said, limiting yourself limits what you can barter for in the event that ammo isn't being produced. Also you might have a ton of 257 Roberts and since it's an oddish caliber, when you go to trade you might find someone who really needs them so you can get a better deal for a more common caliber (if it's available).

And for those who keep talking about "breaching", so you are planning to do a little B&E? Frowned upon by the forum, but thanks for your input.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2014 7:41 am 
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Yo Dawg, I see you like stating the obvious! Well we added Tapatalk to your mobile device so you can state the obvious while stating the obvious! (Keep in mind "the obvious" doesn't always include "everything".)

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2014 7:56 am 
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eeb wrote:
Yo Dawg, I see you like stating the obvious! Well we added Tapatalk to your mobile device so you can state the obvious while stating the obvious! (Keep in mind "the obvious" doesn't always include "everything".)


Thanks bud, since you want to be so helpful, let's play a game. Go to this thread and figure out which one you are violating with the your statement: viewtopic.php?f=44&t=19895

Oh, and Tapatalk isn't all that it's cracked up to be in my opinion.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2014 9:08 am 
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NamelessStain wrote:
eeb wrote:
Yo Dawg, I see you like stating the obvious! Well we added Tapatalk to your mobile device so you can state the obvious while stating the obvious! (Keep in mind "the obvious" doesn't always include "everything".)


Thanks bud, since you want to be so helpful, let's play a game. Go to this thread and figure out which one you are violating with the your statement: viewtopic.php?f=44&t=19895

Oh, and Tapatalk isn't all that it's cracked up to be in my opinion.


Was it the grammar section? I feel like a comma would really clear it up...

When it comes to commonality, I'd rather just use what I got and like. Most things that go on a gun (other than springs and such) will render it useless. So unless I have a bunch of donor guns laying around, I'm not going to salvage parts off another gun. Let's also say I'm not a gunsmith, so I'm not going to be swapping hammer-striker-mag-frame-slide-springs from my AR47 to my Glock 1911. In "the field", if something goes wrong, let's chalk it up to a loss because I can't call timeout and pull out my 'smithing kit to swap parts, same gun or not. I'd rather have backups and backups to my backups, dawg

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2014 6:47 pm 
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JeeperCreeper wrote:
OK, let's take this back to step 1.... What if I don't have 3 friends to make a 4 man SHTF tactical team?

ill be your friend...

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NamelessStain wrote:
eeb wrote:
Yo Dawg, I see you like stating the obvious! Well we added Tapatalk to your mobile device so you can state the obvious while stating the obvious! (Keep in mind "the obvious" doesn't always include "everything".)


Thanks bud, since you want to be so helpful, let's play a game. Go to this thread and figure out which one you are violating with the your statement: viewtopic.php?f=44&t=19895

Oh, and Tapatalk isn't all that it's cracked up to be in my opinion.


Wasn't really talking to you, but I can see how it looks that way. As for punctuation, and lack thereof, I was trying to capture Xibit's speech flow. Was considering going all caps, but that would have likely gotten me banned.

As has been mentioned, it's all been covered before, so I feel that expounding the virtues of ammo and parts commonality can be considered stating the obvious.

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JeeperCreeper wrote:
OK, let's take this back to step 1.... What if I don't have 3 friends to make a 4 man SHTF tactical team?


You would have to go to the Adventurers Guild and pay out some hard gold to recruit people. If you are lucky they may be like minded and you can get reduced rates. It is located at Dauphin Plaza 3846A Union Deposit Road Harrisburg, PA 17109.

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Stercutus wrote:
JeeperCreeper wrote:
OK, let's take this back to step 1.... What if I don't have 3 friends to make a 4 man SHTF tactical team?


You would have to go to the Adventurers Guild and pay out some hard gold to recruit people. If you are lucky they may be like minded and you can get reduced rates. It is located at Dauphin Plaza 3846A Union Deposit Road Harrisburg, PA 17109.


... It's real!

I was planning on heading to the local tavern, talk up the wenches, including the half-orc, she gets jealous, and waiting for a mysterious stranger to approach me about the castle on the cliffs by the sea. I figure I'd run across 3 amiable folks in little to no time and go roll up the problem.


But I think what JeeperCreeper is doing is getting things the right track for the OP and for this discussion. The more important question is how do we form mutual assistance groups pre- and post-SHTF?

Then, how do people start having discussions about important issues with their group?

I have my experiences, but these are maybe the real discussions folks need to have.

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woodsghost wrote:

But I think what JeeperCreeper is doing is getting things the right track for the OP and for this discussion. The more important question is how do we form mutual assistance groups pre- and post-SHTF?

Then, how do people start having discussions about important issues with their group?

I have my experiences, but these are maybe the real discussions folks need to have.



errrr.... yeah..... that's exactly what I was trying to do.... what he said!!!!

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cyruspace wrote:
It's not hard to imagine scenarios:



Clearly, it isn't difficult to imagine. Imagination is fun. That being said, here's a list of ways in which your scenarios are impractical, unrealistic and meaningless. You say you like to debate; me too, but not about this, because it's silly. I'm not here to debate you, just explaining why what you're saying doesn't make sense. Take it or leave it.

1. Assuming that different weapons are firing at the same rate under actual, real-world engagement conditions. A rifleman armed with an M16/M4 might carry only a few hundred rounds of ammunition, while a SAW gunner carries 600+ and has an assistant gunner carrying even more. Yet the rifleman will not necessarily run out of ammo first, because effectively employing his weapon requires a slower rate of fire. Applies equally well to shotguns, handguns, long range rifles, etc. etc. Different weapons are employed differently, hence the operators of those weapons use ammunition at different rates under real-world conditions.

Meaning, two shooters armed with carbines in a common caliber very well might both run out of ammunition before two shooters, one armed with a shotgun and the other with a rifle, because they are employing the weapons differently. Tracking?

2. Assuming that shooters armed with common weapons will be able to swap ammunition between themselves in the middle of an engagement. If you run out of ammunition in the middle of a gunfight and your partner with his ammo is 100 meters away engaging the threats, he might as well be on the moon. In the real world, you're out of ammo either way and the team is still "down a gun".

3. Assuming that "found" ammo in a common caliber may be practically and effectively used. Scenario: you and your fantasy fire team are armed with AR15 type rifles. You encounter, as you suggested, a group of LEOs or military engaged in a firefight with "raiders". Under some fantasy scenario, you manage to get to their position and, for some fantasy reason, they decide to give you ammunition to get more guns in the fight (see item 2 above). But a twist! They're shooting M855A1, your rifles are zeroed for M193. Or you're zeroed for M855 and they're using Mk318 SOST. Or you're zeroed for American Eagle 55-grain FMJ and they're using Federal XM556FBIT3 TBBC. Same caliber, you've got ammo, but you might not be able to hit shit because your rifle isn't zeroed for that load.

Or, as actually happened after Hurricane Katrina, the military provides some ammo to resupply and the people they're resupplying, the local LEOs, can't use it because the military drops them 9mm and all they have are .40 S&W duty pistols. Hoping someone will give you ammo, or that you'll find usable ammo, isn't a realistic thing to plan on for that and many other reasons.

Finally, just think for a second about what you said regarding this thread. In the same post, just a few lines apart:

"The point of the thread is for discussion!"

And then:

"No one is capable of taking the opposite position of the scenarios I provide. The opposite position is, it does not matter if a gun runs out of ammo commonality is not important!"

So, the argument you are putting forward, by your own admission, is not falsifiable. Think about the basic principles of scientific inquiry. Now....what's the point of discussing, debating or testing an unfalsifiable position?

Read more, post less. Not don't post. Just...post less.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 17, 2014 6:01 am 
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This is the same reason my friends and I all wear the same underwear: parts commonality. When the ZPAW is on, me and my goons can swap out our Fruit of the Looms if we get a tear, skidmark, or wedgie. What's that? You got Hanes? No brah, not in my squad.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 04, 2015 2:41 am 
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Assuming a true zombie scenario the order of importance is:
Ammo Commonness
Ammo Commonality
Firearm Commonality

Firearm Commonality is not that important as all it addresses on its own is repairs when two of the same firearm break in different ways, which is just not that valuable in a zombie apocalypse (at least not in the USA).
Ammo Commonality is nice but it only has real value in combination with Ammo Commonness.
Ammo Commonness means how readily you can find more of the ammo you are using in the given scenario. By definition excessive Ammo Commonality decreases Ammo Commoness, as the more people on your team that use the same ammo the less common that ammo is for each of them individually.

I think this can best be demonstrated with a "Scenario".. And one that the addresses replacement over time, which the prior scenarios have not done, or not done well....

Scenario:

Four teams of 4, each team member starts with 300 rounds of ammo and each team has to survive for a month while facing off against an average of 30 zombies a day, and they need an average of 2 shots per zombie to get a head shot... So each team member uses 15 rounds per day on average and therefore is effectively starting with 20 days of ammo. Each group will have the opportunity to find the same ammo in the same quantities.

Team A has Firearm Commonality and Ammo Commonality and no Ammo Commonness - 4xGamestalkers(.300 OSSM).
Team B has complete Firearm Commonality and complete Ammo Commonality and common ammo that due to ammo commonality does not provide good Ammo Commonness - 4xAR15(.223).
Team C has partial Firearm Commonality, partial Ammo Commonality, and partial Ammo Commonness. 2xAR15(.223), 1xGlock 17(9mm), 1xG17 Sub2000(9mm).
Team D has no Firearm Commonality or Ammo Commonality, but a lot of Ammo Commonness - 1xAR15 (.223), 1xGlock 17 (9mm), 1xM&P 15-22 (.22lr), 1xSaiga 12 (12gauge).


After 10 days each team member has used 150 rounds.
-Team A, unless they are headquartered in the Nisqually Valley, have found 0 rounds of .300 OSSM. Each team members has 150 rounds (10 days) of ammo left.
-Team B has found 300 rounds of .223. Each team member has 225 rounds (15 days) of ammo left.
-Team C has found 300 rounds of .223 and 300 rounds of 9mm. Each team member has 300 rounds (20 days) of ammo left.
-Team D has found 300 rounds of .223, 300 rounds of 9mm, 500 rounds of .22lr, and 100 12 gauge shells. Members 1 and 2 have 450 rounds (30 days) of ammo left, member 3 has 650 (43 days) of ammo left, member 4 has 250 shells (16 days) of ammo left.

After 20 days each team member has used another 150 rounds. Ammo is getting harder to find.
-Team A has found 0 rounds of .300 OSSM. Each team member has an awkward club.
-Team B has found 200 rounds of .223. Each team member has 125 rounds (8 days) of ammo left
-Team C has found 200 rounds of .223 and 200 rounds of 9mm. Each team member has 250 rounds (16 days) of ammo left.
-Team D has found 200 rounds of .223, 200 rounds of 9mm, 300 rounds of .22lr, and 75 12 gauge shells. Members 1 and 2 have 500 rounds (33 days) of ammo left, member 3 has 800 (53 days) of ammo left, member 4 has 175 (11 days) of ammo left.

After 30 days each team member has used another 150 rounds. Ammo is even harder to find.
-Team A is dead.
-Team B has found 150 rounds of .223. Each team member has 12.5 rounds (not even one full day) of ammo left.
-Team C has found 150 rounds of .223 and 150 rounds of 9mm. Each team member has 175 rounds (11 days) of ammo left.
-Team D has found 150 rounds of .223, 150 rounds of 9mm, 250 rounds of .22lr, and 50 12 gauge shells. Members 1 and 2 have 500 rounds (33 days) of ammo left, member 3 has 900 rounds (60 days) of ammo left, member 4 has 75 shells (5 days) left.

Obviously firearm replacement comes into play when ammo runs low but that throws Firearm Commonality, which is what we are discussing, out the window. So I am not going into that further.

There are also two other firearm concerns that I left off my original list that I will just add to the list (in order of importance) to be complete:
Firearm Reliability
Ammo Carrying Capacity (based on # of rounds to the more problematic of Weight or Volume)
Ammo Commonness
Ammo Commonality
Firearm Commonality

Personally if I was in charge of arming a team of 4 people for the zombie apocalypse these would be my suggested loadouts. (With the ammo being far more important than the specific firearms):

Member 1: (Insert favorite Make) AR-15 - 5.56 & Glock - .40S&W
Member 2: Sub2000 - 9mm & Glock - 9mm
Member 3: Ruger 10/22 - .22lr & S&W model 63 revolver - .22lr
Member 4: Tavor - 5.56 & Glock - 45ACP

That covers all 6 (5.56 and .223 are two of the 6) of the top selling ammo's in the USA, helping to minimize the challenge of finding compatible ammo. The only thing I kind of regret is the lack of a 12 gauge (the 7th most common), which would be my first choice for a 5th person, but even then it would be more for hunting and door breaching than taking down zombies. That person would probably have an AR pistol or something similar to use as their real primary weapon.


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