Shotguns - The most overrated weapon for zombies

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Re: Shotguns - The most overrated weapon for zombies

Post by Doctorr Fabulous » Tue Oct 28, 2014 9:44 pm

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Re: Shotguns - The most overrated weapon for zombies

Post by Sworbeyegib » Tue Oct 28, 2014 9:46 pm

Mad Mike wrote:
Sworbeyegib wrote:
woodsghost wrote:
A semi-auto shotgun will be comparable to an AR. How many rounds can you get off from an AR before the coconut stops rolling? About 10, give or take. How many rounds can you get off from a defensive semi-auto shotgun in the same time period? Probably about 10, give or take. And you can get tube mags which hold 8-10 rounds. The real advantage of something like a Veper is reloading, and that is not likely to be an issue in these scenarios. But do get it if you like it! I think they are really cool!
Trust me, the reloading factor comes in VERY big once that tube is empty. If you timed yourself shooting 20 aimed shots with a carbine, vs 20 aimed shots from a tubular magazine semi auto shotgun, and you will notice at u spend more time loading than shooting.

It takes about as much time to load a single shell, as it does to swap a magazine. And a single shell is actually a bit harder, because it requires more dexterity and fine motor skills. You are manipulating something very small with your fingers, rather than your hand as a whole.


That's something I wondered about; how does the time to fire 20 (or whatever) rounds from a pump compare to a single shot (with ejector) or maybe a double barrel? Guess I'll need to put this on my roundtuit list. :clap:
I can definitely combat load a single round into pump faster than load a break action. Then again, I've actually tried to load a break action as fast as I could.
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Re: Shotguns - The most overrated weapon for zombies

Post by gunsandrockets » Tue Oct 28, 2014 10:29 pm

Mad Mike wrote:
Sworbeyegib wrote:
woodsghost wrote:
A semi-auto shotgun will be comparable to an AR. How many rounds can you get off from an AR before the coconut stops rolling? About 10, give or take. How many rounds can you get off from a defensive semi-auto shotgun in the same time period? Probably about 10, give or take. And you can get tube mags which hold 8-10 rounds. The real advantage of something like a Veper is reloading, and that is not likely to be an issue in these scenarios. But do get it if you like it! I think they are really cool!
Trust me, the reloading factor comes in VERY big once that tube is empty. If you timed yourself shooting 20 aimed shots with a carbine, vs 20 aimed shots from a tubular magazine semi auto shotgun, and you will notice at u spend more time loading than shooting.

It takes about as much time to load a single shell, as it does to swap a magazine. And a single shell is actually a bit harder, because it requires more dexterity and fine motor skills. You are manipulating something very small with your fingers, rather than your hand as a whole.


That's something I wondered about; how does the time to fire 20 (or whatever) rounds from a pump compare to a single shot (with ejector) or maybe a double barrel? Guess I'll need to put this on my roundtuit list. :clap:
Good question. It's a question I've wondered about since 2012, and the answer is a single shot is quicker than you might assume. Look what I found on youtube, 13 shots in 50 seconds.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D08sUXRBUHs
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Re: Shotguns - The most overrated weapon for zombies

Post by Mr. E. Monkey » Wed Oct 29, 2014 5:29 am

Doctorr Fabulous wrote:Image
Just a mental exercise--suppose I wanted to launch slugs out of a 12 gauge. Rifle sights and red dot sights are most commonly going to be in the 4-6 MOA range, probably? Now for the sake of simple monkey math, we'll round 1 MOA to 1 inch at 100 yards, right? So that would mean that my front sight/red dot alone would obscure about...40-60 inches at 1000 yards?

Now, I'll admit I'm having a little trouble finding a useful ballistics table, but checking out Hornady's website, they're showing their fancy slugs dropping anywhere between 6-10 inches at 200 yards.

Oh, but that's with a 150 yard zero.

Federal shows their rifled slugs, zeroed at 100 yards, dropping 5.5" by 125 yards. (They also show 14.3 inches of wind drift at 125 yards, assuming a 10mph wind, but for the sake of simplicity, let's say there's no wind at all. Anywhere.)

Shoot, do you have a ballistic calculator that can verify something for me? I found this:
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here: http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showt ... -Questions
Supposed to be a "typical ballistics chart for a 12 ga. sabot slug from a scope sighted gun."

I plugged the numbers for drop and velocity into excel and let it figure out and extend the formula, and it looks like my slug would run out of forward velocity between 630 and 640 yards. Does that sound pretty close to accurate, or am I way off?

Of course, given the scenario, I may have to upgrade my sights to something more like this:
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ETA: I realize these may sound like, or may actually just be stupid questions; it's just something I had never thought about thinking about before, because it seems to me that considering the short practical range of a shotgun, trying to reach farther out with one turns into ineffective indirect fire, which would be beyond useless against zombies.
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Re: Shotguns - The most overrated weapon for zombies

Post by Sworbeyegib » Wed Oct 29, 2014 9:08 am

Just seems to remind me of how troops would use the trap door 45/70 (or was it 50/70) back in the day. Either way, for long distance shooting, a single shooter aiming at a single target at a long distance wouldn't yield very consistent results (unless you're Quigley). But a squad of guys, dialed in on an known/exact distance, would pummel round after round from very, very far away.
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Re: Shotguns - The most overrated weapon for zombies

Post by Jeriah » Wed Oct 29, 2014 10:00 am

Norcalbowhunter wrote:
Mad Mike wrote:
Norcalbowhunter wrote:I have to disagree, but we should agree to disagree.

Firstly a lot, like 90% of your post talked about zombies in a "Dawn of the Dead" sense. Now a lot of us zombies preppers actually use the term zombies as an end all end of the world event. Those of use who do believe in zombies believe in a more "28 Days Later" virus type zombie. So when you talk about shotguns not being a good defense weapon against the decaying dead, and that stopping power means nothing against a zombie I have to disagree.

Firstly I think against a normal person a shotgun will do a massive amount of damage no matter where you hit them. Against a infected person you will still deal a massive amount of damage and being that the person is simply infected with a virus it will still matter. Secondly even in a dawn of the dead situation stopping power NEVER hurts. Something that will stop a person in their tracks, or may even knock them down because of the kinetic energy behind the shot can never be called pointless.

Shotguns are actually a quite versatile gun. I own an array of guns from 22's, .223's, 30-06, 308, .458 and so on. I shoot quite a lot. I understand that each gun has it's dedicated job. However something everyone needs to get on page with. NO GUN DOES IT ALL. However shotguns are one of the few that comes closest to it. You have short to medium range right out of the box. Then throw in a rifled barrel using a long range slug and you can make 1,000 yards shots. Look it up on youtube. People make long range shots ALL the time with shotguns and I have done it myself too. Simply put you can do a massive amount of damage in a close quarter situation, it's decent at medium range with the right choke and load and can still be used at long range with the right setup.

Is a shotgun the end all to guns? No. Is it a "god" gun? No. However it is a pretty efficient gun for most tasks, and those who think they are just lead slingers for shot range have never properly shot a shotgun. I have many guns I plan to use in a SHTF situation, my shotgun is one of them. However anyone who is looking for 1 gun to do everything perfect is in my opinion and fool who is selling themselves short and setting them up for a bad situation.


I call bull shit on this one. 200 yards or so, yes. It takes a very good rifle, ammo and optics to hit anything smaller than a house at 1,000 yards. Don't take you tube as gospel - you're going to be disappointed!!! :lol:
I didn't say I take youtube as gospel, I've said I've done it myself. You want to discredit what I say because you believe it to be false. I never claimed you can get a 1 inch group with a shotgun at 1,000 yards did I? But I can tell you this, my local range is set up in a old quarry. The back wall is EXACTLY 1,000 yards away. I can get pretty damn CLOSE, mind you I say CLOSE, to where I am aiming with a shotgun, shooting down a rifled barrel using a Sabot Slug.

Because you don't believe it can happen, doesn't mean it can't.

My whole point of my post was that NO GUN is going to be better at everything then any other gun. If I was in that situation of having to shoot someone at 1,000 yard's I'd pull out my 30-06 or 308. I'd use the right gun designed for the right job. However to discredit a shotgun because it's just a short range lead slinger is idiotic to me. Shotguns can do so much more then just throw hunks of lead down range and anyone who claims they can't be a well rounded gun has never been properly trained in the use of one.
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Re: Shotguns - The most overrated weapon for zombies

Post by Mad Mike » Wed Oct 29, 2014 10:10 am

Norcalbowhunter wrote:
Mad Mike wrote:
Norcalbowhunter wrote:I have to disagree, but we should agree to disagree.

Firstly a lot, like 90% of your post talked about zombies in a "Dawn of the Dead" sense. Now a lot of us zombies preppers actually use the term zombies as an end all end of the world event. Those of use who do believe in zombies believe in a more "28 Days Later" virus type zombie. So when you talk about shotguns not being a good defense weapon against the decaying dead, and that stopping power means nothing against a zombie I have to disagree.

Firstly I think against a normal person a shotgun will do a massive amount of damage no matter where you hit them. Against a infected person you will still deal a massive amount of damage and being that the person is simply infected with a virus it will still matter. Secondly even in a dawn of the dead situation stopping power NEVER hurts. Something that will stop a person in their tracks, or may even knock them down because of the kinetic energy behind the shot can never be called pointless.

Shotguns are actually a quite versatile gun. I own an array of guns from 22's, .223's, 30-06, 308, .458 and so on. I shoot quite a lot. I understand that each gun has it's dedicated job. However something everyone needs to get on page with. NO GUN DOES IT ALL. However shotguns are one of the few that comes closest to it. You have short to medium range right out of the box. Then throw in a rifled barrel using a long range slug and you can make 1,000 yards shots. Look it up on youtube. People make long range shots ALL the time with shotguns and I have done it myself too. Simply put you can do a massive amount of damage in a close quarter situation, it's decent at medium range with the right choke and load and can still be used at long range with the right setup.

Is a shotgun the end all to guns? No. Is it a "god" gun? No. However it is a pretty efficient gun for most tasks, and those who think they are just lead slingers for shot range have never properly shot a shotgun. I have many guns I plan to use in a SHTF situation, my shotgun is one of them. However anyone who is looking for 1 gun to do everything perfect is in my opinion and fool who is selling themselves short and setting them up for a bad situation.


I call bull shit on this one. 200 yards or so, yes. It takes a very good rifle, ammo and optics to hit anything smaller than a house at 1,000 yards. Don't take you tube as gospel - you're going to be disappointed!!! :lol:
I didn't say I take youtube as gospel, I've said I've done it myself. You want to discredit what I say because you believe it to be false. I never claimed you can get a 1 inch group with a shotgun at 1,000 yards did I? But I can tell you this, my local range is set up in a old quarry. The back wall is EXACTLY 1,000 yards away. I can get pretty damn CLOSE, mind you I say CLOSE, to where I am aiming with a shotgun, shooting down a rifled barrel using a Sabot Slug.

Because you don't believe it can happen, doesn't mean it can't.

My whole point of my post was that NO GUN is going to be better at everything then any other gun. If I was in that situation of having to shoot someone at 1,000 yard's I'd pull out my 30-06 or 308. I'd use the right gun designed for the right job. However to discredit a shotgun because it's just a short range lead slinger is idiotic to me. Shotguns can do so much more then just throw hunks of lead down range and anyone who claims they can't be a well rounded gun has never been properly trained in the use of one.


Agreed, just because I don't believe doesn't mean it didn't happen. But on the other hand, just because you say you did it doesn't mean it really did happen. Sorry, but I've shot long range rifle before & I'd simply have to see it before I'd believe a shotgun with that big, slow, blunt slug would compare to even a 308.

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Re: Shotguns - The most overrated weapon for zombies

Post by Jeriah » Wed Oct 29, 2014 10:16 am

I'd believe it could get there, but even with 7.62×39 it'd be dropping like a rainbow at that range. With a slug, the only way I can see hitting close to your target is like walking em in like artillery. But I've never tried it, so...
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Re: Shotguns - The most overrated weapon for zombies

Post by Mad Mike » Wed Oct 29, 2014 10:17 am

Sworbeyegib wrote:Just seems to remind me of how troops would use the trap door 45/70 (or was it 50/70) back in the day. Either way, for long distance shooting, a single shooter aiming at a single target at a long distance wouldn't yield very consistent results (unless you're Quigley). But a squad of guys, dialed in on an known/exact distance, would pummel round after round from very, very far away.


Yep, but if your range estimation is off by even a few yards it will be a big miss as that bullet is coming down at a very sharp angle. :shock:

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Re: Shotguns - The most overrated weapon for zombies

Post by zero11010 » Wed Oct 29, 2014 11:27 am

Norcalbowhunter wrote:I have to disagree.
Welcome to the conversation! Glad to have you, and to have more input for the discussion!
Norcalbowhunter wrote:Firstly a lot, like 90% of your post talked about zombies in a "Dawn of the Dead" sense. Now a lot of us zombies preppers actually use the term zombies as an end all end of the world event. Those of use who do believe in zombies believe in a more "28 Days Later" virus type zombie. So when you talk about shotguns not being a good defense weapon against the decaying dead, and that stopping power means nothing against a zombie I have to disagree.
"Those of us who do believe in zombies" I just want to be clear, you genuinely believe in the eventuality and/or history of zombies?

I think you may want to read more of the thread, starting with rereading the original post. I stated that intimidation is meaningless against a zombie. I stated something to the effect of: general tissue damage that slows a zombie is almost without value. Yep, there is value in destroying the tendons and muscles in a zombie's face or arms to reduce it's ability to attack. Yep, there's minimal value in slowing or knocking down a zombie. Nope, I don't think a shotgun has "knockdown power" as it's commonly known, but I do think zombies are poorly balanced and it doesn't take much to make them fall over. If it falls over it takes longer for it to get to you, and there's a clear positive to that. No one's ammo is going to last forever. Slowing a zombie doesn't seem like a good use for it, especially not the incredibly heavy shotgun ammo.

As an aside, I think that removing the head of a zombie, or destroying the legs of a zombie is generally worse than leaving it alone. I think this because it alters the threat and makes it more difficult to spot them because they're at a different height, and are typically not very stealthy when moving. This was covered in more detail in previous posts.
Norcalbowhunter wrote:Shotguns are actually a quite versatile gun.
That isn't in question. The only topic we care about is the single minded destruction of a zombie. If you would like to start a new thread about a single weapon for a post apocalyptic scenario, then go for it. I think the shotgun would gain a lot of traction here. The general versatility of the shotgun for the purpose of killing zombies has been talked about throughout the thread (including the original post). If there is something you feel we missed, please give a shout.
Norcalbowhunter wrote:Then throw in a rifled barrel using a long range slug and you can make 1,000 yards shots. Look it up on youtube. People make long range shots ALL the time with shotguns and I have done it myself too.
You are overstating and overselling this. I don't doubt it as 100% impossible. In my original post I provide a video where a person is readily hitting a target with at 100 yards with just a bead for sighting.

Still, I don't think many people with an array of weapons available would think: "Hey, I need to shoot something at 500 yards. I think I'll use my shotgun." Yep, I think rare people try it in their free time. Nope, I don't think that anyone who's life is on the line would use a shotgun if most other rifles were available.

I've also made more than one post questioning the tactic of shooting a zombie at great distances. This is another topic we could start a new thread about.

Lastly, and this is just a thought, if you state something which you think people will not believe, it may be more effective for your point if you also include the youtube link rather than telling a bunch of people to look it up themselves.
Norcalbowhunter wrote:those who think they are just lead slingers for shot range have never properly shot a shotgun. I have many guns I plan to use in a SHTF situation, my shotgun is one of them. However anyone who is looking for 1 gun to do everything perfect is in my opinion and fool who is selling themselves short and setting them up for a bad situation.
I think you're missing the point of this thread. We're not looking for one perfect gun for a SHTF situation. We're looking at the considerable hype of a shotgun (as a general weapon type) specifically for use against fictitious zombies and comparing that to the realistic expectation of what a shotgun can output in the hands of an average shooter.

I'm going to reiterate one of my first points: I think you may want to read more of this thread. I can't tell if you read the conversation and are wording questions in a difficult way, or if you skimmed a little (in your defense: it's a GIANT thread) and posted questions which appear fairly off topic and/or previously covered.

Happy to go over portions of the conversation again! I just don't want to have to copy/paste previous responses to questions repeated.
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Re: Shotguns - The most overrated weapon for zombies

Post by procyon » Wed Oct 29, 2014 10:36 pm

Ummm...
?!?!?!?!?!?!!!!

I'm not sure how...what...???
I could try to respond logically to the 1000 yd slug...????

Ok, let me just say this.
If I should ever find myself in a ZPAW.
And I find any member of my group, whether my child, wife, or some SEAL Team 6 member - firing slugs from a shotgun at a zombie 1000 yds away...

I will rip that weapon from their hands. Let them know that I NEVER want to see (inapprop words deleted) ever again.
And then unleash whatever a@@ beating I am capable of so that not only do they understand, but that anyone hearing about it understands -
that said action is COMPLETELY INAPPROPRIATE.

Those folks considering that 1000 yd shotgun slugs shots are 'a thing' - should look at the sources they are finding them in - and then refer back to the title of this thread.


Ok, I'm going off for a bit. When I come back I will post something useful...
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Re: Shotguns - The most overrated weapon for zombies

Post by Jeriah » Wed Oct 29, 2014 10:56 pm

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Re: Shotguns - The most overrated weapon for zombies

Post by Doctorr Fabulous » Wed Oct 29, 2014 11:11 pm

Max range for the M16A2 is 3600m. Rifle wins again!
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Re: Shotguns - The most overrated weapon for zombies

Post by procyon » Thu Oct 30, 2014 1:16 am

Sworbeyegib wrote:Another thing that became apparent to everyone in the class, is that a low bead or sight was much faster and easier to point and shoot at buckshot ranges than any of the "fancy" stuff. A few guys running express and ghost ring sights often commented that they were too distracting. As long as you know your point of impact with your particular gun, I would be willing to sacrifice "slug" range accuracy by sticking with a sight that will be faster to acquire small, moving targets.

Ghost rings and rifle sights would no doubt be much more accurate on a stationary target at moderate ranges, but we are talking about a target that will be moving, and moving in our direction. "Slug" range with likely turn into buckshot range pretty quickly.

I think my choice for a "iron" sight would be a two bead system, rather than the express sights I originally had thought of. That seems to be the most popular with clay shooters as well, and those guys some to specialize in hitting small, fast moving targets.
I would second this thought.
No one I know of uses rifle sights, ghost rings, or anything other than beads when hunting small game and birds.
It is very easy to orient, and at the ranges used is more than adequate.

For slugs on a stationary target - rifle sights or scopes are fine. But everyone who shoots trap, skeet, rabbits, etc - quickly moves away from rifle sights as they are simply very difficult to keep oriented, and require you to focus on the sight instead of the target. A bead is simply a 'high point' in your vision as you track a moving target. Most shooters will say that they don't even see the bead after they start swinging on the target.

I would not be likely to put a newer shooter in a ZPAW on a weapon with rifle sights for this reason - as most people in high pressure situations focus on the threat, which makes keeping a good sight picture very difficult.

We may try a barrel or two with rifle sights on our moving target tests - but I anticipate that they will not be as well liked by the shooters. Or as effective -although I could be wrong.
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Re: Shotguns - The most overrated weapon for zombies

Post by Kelvar » Thu Oct 30, 2014 7:50 am

zero11010 wrote:
Norcalbowhunter wrote:Firstly a lot, like 90% of your post talked about zombies in a "Dawn of the Dead" sense. Now a lot of us zombies preppers actually use the term zombies as an end all end of the world event. Those of use who do believe in zombies believe in a more "28 Days Later" virus type zombie. So when you talk about shotguns not being a good defense weapon against the decaying dead, and that stopping power means nothing against a zombie I have to disagree.
"Those of us who do believe in zombies" I just want to be clear, you genuinely believe in the eventuality and/or history of zombies?

I think you may want to read more of the thread, starting with rereading the original post.
Yep. There's a reason this thread is in "Zombie Combat Tactics." I don't think anyone honestly believes in actual, literal, zombies--but this is one part of the forum where we can have a little fun with the "what if" angle and where we can talk about zombies as a fun hypothetical exercise. So, unless I'm mistaken, the point of the thread is to talk about whether the shotgun is overrated for hypothetical zombies of the Romero variety, or similar.
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Re: Shotguns - The most overrated weapon for zombies

Post by woodsghost » Thu Oct 30, 2014 8:21 am

Kelvar,

We have been pretty clear these tests are for zombies, not humans. Which is why we are rolling coconuts around and shooting them. Personally, I could never really believe in zombies. I"m preparing for ninjas.


procyon,

I suck with a bead sight. Probably because I have not shot many shotgun rounds (less than 1000, maybe less than 500?) and possibly because I have never had good instruction or consistent experience or learning with a shotgun. I think if I had express sights I could do a lot better. Something more similar to what I'm familiar with on my rifles. Or maybe I just need to get some real range time with a shotgun. I don't know. But my fantasy right now is a fighting shotgun with express sights.
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Re: Shotguns - The most overrated weapon for zombies

Post by Jeriah » Thu Oct 30, 2014 10:20 am

woodsghost wrote:We have been pretty clear these tests are for zombies, not humans. Which is why we are rolling coconuts around and shooting them. Personally, I could never really believe in zombies. I"m preparing for ninjas.
The rolling coconut test has convinced me that a 12 gauge shotgun loaded with #4 Buck is the perfect weapon against...

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Re: Shotguns - The most overrated weapon for zombies

Post by Gingerbread Man » Thu Oct 30, 2014 10:31 am

Recent events and discussion in this thread has given me some ideas for MEATWORLD.

Thank you very much gents.
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Re: Shotguns - The most overrated weapon for zombies

Post by woodsghost » Thu Oct 30, 2014 10:32 am

Jeriah wrote:
woodsghost wrote:We have been pretty clear these tests are for zombies, not humans. Which is why we are rolling coconuts around and shooting them. Personally, I could never really believe in zombies. I"m preparing for ninjas.
The rolling coconut test has convinced me that a 12 gauge shotgun loaded with #4 Buck is the perfect weapon against...

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WTF. I'm going to have nightmares. Those suckers are evil looking.
*Remember: I'm just a guy on the internet :)
*Don't go to stupid places with stupid people & do stupid things.
*Be courteous. Look normal. Be in bed by 10'clock.

“It's a dangerous business, Frodo, going out your door. You step onto the road, and if you don't keep your feet, there's no knowing where you might be swept off to.” -Bilbo Baggins.

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Jeriah
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Re: Shotguns - The most overrated weapon for zombies

Post by Jeriah » Thu Oct 30, 2014 10:57 am

woodsghost wrote:
Jeriah wrote:
woodsghost wrote:We have been pretty clear these tests are for zombies, not humans. Which is why we are rolling coconuts around and shooting them. Personally, I could never really believe in zombies. I"m preparing for ninjas.
The rolling coconut test has convinced me that a 12 gauge shotgun loaded with #4 Buck is the perfect weapon against...

Image
WTF. I'm going to have nightmares. Those suckers are evil looking.
Cinema at its finest.

http://m.imdb.com/title/tt0090887/
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Re: Shotguns - The most overrated weapon for zombies

Post by procyon » Thu Oct 30, 2014 2:08 pm

woodsghost wrote:procyon,

I suck with a bead sight. Probably because I have not shot many shotgun rounds (less than 1000, maybe less than 500?) and possibly because I have never had good instruction or consistent experience or learning with a shotgun. I think if I had express sights I could do a lot better. Something more similar to what I'm familiar with on my rifles. Or maybe I just need to get some real range time with a shotgun. I don't know. But my fantasy right now is a fighting shotgun with express sights.
If that is what you are used to, it probably won't make a great deal of difference.
And I am pretty sure you have stated that you don't actually 'see' the sights when you shoot a moving target - which would make what was on the gun less of a sight picture issue and more of a confidence issue. I try to stick with what I know works.
... I will show you fear in a handful of dust...

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Re: Shotguns - The most overrated weapon for zombies

Post by woodsghost » Thu Oct 30, 2014 2:46 pm

procyon wrote:
woodsghost wrote:procyon,

I suck with a bead sight. Probably because I have not shot many shotgun rounds (less than 1000, maybe less than 500?) and possibly because I have never had good instruction or consistent experience or learning with a shotgun. I think if I had express sights I could do a lot better. Something more similar to what I'm familiar with on my rifles. Or maybe I just need to get some real range time with a shotgun. I don't know. But my fantasy right now is a fighting shotgun with express sights.
If that is what you are used to, it probably won't make a great deal of difference.
And I am pretty sure you have stated that you don't actually 'see' the sights when you shoot a moving target - which would make what was on the gun less of a sight picture issue and more of a confidence issue. I try to stick with what I know works.
Make sense. Except bead sights on a shotgun are not yet relegated to my unconscious. I think (????) express sights would be more familiar and similar to what I already know and help me orient myself. But I don't know. I'm REALLY not a shotgun expert. I"m realizing there is some stuff that people do when swinging and aiming a shotgun that I have never done. My little mind is totally being blown here.
*Remember: I'm just a guy on the internet :)
*Don't go to stupid places with stupid people & do stupid things.
*Be courteous. Look normal. Be in bed by 10'clock.

“It's a dangerous business, Frodo, going out your door. You step onto the road, and if you don't keep your feet, there's no knowing where you might be swept off to.” -Bilbo Baggins.

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Re: Shotguns - The most overrated weapon for zombies

Post by gunsandrockets » Fri Oct 31, 2014 1:08 am

woodsghost wrote:
procyon wrote:
woodsghost wrote:procyon,

I suck with a bead sight. Probably because I have not shot many shotgun rounds (less than 1000, maybe less than 500?) and possibly because I have never had good instruction or consistent experience or learning with a shotgun. I think if I had express sights I could do a lot better. Something more similar to what I'm familiar with on my rifles. Or maybe I just need to get some real range time with a shotgun. I don't know. But my fantasy right now is a fighting shotgun with express sights.
If that is what you are used to, it probably won't make a great deal of difference.
And I am pretty sure you have stated that you don't actually 'see' the sights when you shoot a moving target - which would make what was on the gun less of a sight picture issue and more of a confidence issue. I try to stick with what I know works.
Make sense. Except bead sights on a shotgun are not yet relegated to my unconscious. I think (????) express sights would be more familiar and similar to what I already know and help me orient myself. But I don't know. I'm REALLY not a shotgun expert. I"m realizing there is some stuff that people do when swinging and aiming a shotgun that I have never done. My little mind is totally being blown here.
Reminds me of the first time I was offered a shotgun to shoot at some clay pigeons. I couldn't hit a dang thing. My problem was I kept trying to shoot the shotgun as if I was shooting a rifle, lining up the bead with the bird, squeezing the trigger, ugh! Too slow. It was only much later I started to grasp the whole instinctive focusing on the target, pointing not aiming and rapid trigger pull thing. I may not shoot pretty, but at least I can now bust clay pigeons more often than miss them.
I say we take off and nuke the entire site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.

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Re: Shotguns - The most overrated weapon for zombies

Post by woodsghost » Fri Oct 31, 2014 6:42 am

gunsandrockets wrote:
woodsghost wrote:
procyon wrote:
woodsghost wrote:procyon,

I suck with a bead sight. Probably because I have not shot many shotgun rounds (less than 1000, maybe less than 500?) and possibly because I have never had good instruction or consistent experience or learning with a shotgun. I think if I had express sights I could do a lot better. Something more similar to what I'm familiar with on my rifles. Or maybe I just need to get some real range time with a shotgun. I don't know. But my fantasy right now is a fighting shotgun with express sights.
If that is what you are used to, it probably won't make a great deal of difference.
And I am pretty sure you have stated that you don't actually 'see' the sights when you shoot a moving target - which would make what was on the gun less of a sight picture issue and more of a confidence issue. I try to stick with what I know works.
Make sense. Except bead sights on a shotgun are not yet relegated to my unconscious. I think (????) express sights would be more familiar and similar to what I already know and help me orient myself. But I don't know. I'm REALLY not a shotgun expert. I"m realizing there is some stuff that people do when swinging and aiming a shotgun that I have never done. My little mind is totally being blown here.
Reminds me of the first time I was offered a shotgun to shoot at some clay pigeons. I couldn't hit a dang thing. My problem was I kept trying to shoot the shotgun as if I was shooting a rifle, lining up the bead with the bird, squeezing the trigger, ugh! Too slow. It was only much later I started to grasp the whole instinctive focusing on the target, pointing not aiming and rapid trigger pull thing. I may not shoot pretty, but at least I can now bust clay pigeons more often than miss them.
I still have that. I"m learning to lead, but I have a tough time with horizontal and vertical references. Actually, I think I swing ok, so horizontal reference is getting better, but I think I over and under shoot clays a lot, and I have not quite figured out exactly where to pull the trigger when leading a clay, so I am probably over and under-leading it.

I just need more time and practice. Maybe a bit of coaching some day. I still miss way more than I hit! :oops:
*Remember: I'm just a guy on the internet :)
*Don't go to stupid places with stupid people & do stupid things.
*Be courteous. Look normal. Be in bed by 10'clock.

“It's a dangerous business, Frodo, going out your door. You step onto the road, and if you don't keep your feet, there's no knowing where you might be swept off to.” -Bilbo Baggins.

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